Here's what the feud and reconciliation between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson can teach us about civility

Thom plus logo Donald Trump did not invent the art of the political insult but he's inflamed the level of vitriolic public discourse and incivility to a new low unmatched by other presidents. In a tainted tradition that has permeated our history, other presidents have not been immune to dishing out acerbic insults against one another.

John Quincy Adams was livid that Harvard University planned to award President Andrew Jackson with an honorary degree. He wrote in his diary that Jackson was "a barbarian who could not write a sentence of grammar and hardly could spell his own name."

Franklin Pierce was not as impressed with Abraham Lincoln as history has been, declaring the day after Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation that the president had "limited ability and narrow intelligence."

The list of spicy presidential insults goes on and on. While such statements are often laugh-aloud funny, they are also shocking and sobering. How can these men who have reached the pinnacle of political power be so crude and demeaning? We can learn a valuable lesson from the friendship and feud between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, and their ultimate reconciliation.

Read more here.

-Thom

Comments

deepspace's picture
deepspace 21 weeks 3 days ago
#1

A BIT LATE FOR CIVIL DEBATE !

Sorry, couldn't resist an ultimate understatement.

But it's really hard (guilty, all of the above) to give a pass to deliberate liars and greedy fools who do real harm with a lot more than mere rhetoric to all life on planet Earth. That may sound extreme, but it's the hard truth the world's climate scientists are shouting into the wind. Trying to reason with such intractability (too many trillions for the greedy) is almost impossible in the small window of time left for Homo sapiens to reverse course.

Yet we must. All else pales in comparison. So what do we do?

As usual, Thom appeals to our better angels:

"Our survival as a nation depends on our ability to listen to those with very different political philosophies, to “explain ourselves” to one another, to search for broad areas of agreement with those of different political philosophies, and to reject the acidic politics of personal demonization in which we attack the humanity or patriotism of others."

And in a token show of civility: happy birthday, Trump. (God, that was hard!)

>>>MEANWHILE<<<

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 21 weeks 2 days ago
#2

Good morning HotCoffee, happy Saturday to you.

Spent last night in a lake cruise with friends, Beautiful weather, 77° light wind no humidity. Need more of those.

Treat of the day;

I heard Netflix was dumping a bunch of cash into the obama's bank account and out of curiosity as to their qualifications for such a generous gift, I did a bit of digging.

Here is how it works. Follow the bouncing ball,

The Obama’s magically decided to become “producers”.

Netflix gives them $50,000,000 to set up a “production company".

Ted Sarandos is currently the chief content officer for Netflix. Sarandos oversees Netflix's annual budget of over $6 billion.

Ted Sarandos wife, Nicole Avant, bundled over $600,000 for the 2012 Obama campaign.

Out of sheer coincidence, Nicole Avant was appointed as the ambassador to the Bahamas. (tough gig)

So, out of the Netflix $6 billion dollar budget that Ted Sarandos manages, throwing a mere $50,000,000 to the Obama’s who wouldn’t know a production company if it bit them in the a$$, is a drop in the bucket.

Nicole Avant’s father Clarence Avant, a very powerful music executive, bundled nearly $450,000 for Obama’s campaign.

Side Article on Clarence Avant who also has ties to major democrat party critters and Obama himself credited Clarance Avant for giving him his start in 2004 raising him from a community agitator to politician.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a27954033/clarence-avant-netflix-documentary/

Isn't it Hatrmann who constantly complains about the “rich Republicans” using their close friends while in office for personal gain?

deepspace's picture
deepspace 21 weeks 2 days ago
#3

Trump Troll (#2) is obviously following the wrong "bouncing ball" and "digging" in a bottomless sh*t hole. What next -- reading bathroom walls in truck stops?

Here's an example of actual research:

A concerned group of some of the nation's most qualified specialists and scientists, who study and treat serious mental diseases, analyzed the Mueller Report through the objective perspective of professional criteria and concluded Trump is mentally unfit to serve as a president and is putting our nation and the world in grave danger.

Following is some excerpted commentary from an interview with Chauncey DeVega recently by Yale professor and psychiatrist Dr. Bandy Lee about this report, which will be offered in congressional testimony tentatively planned for July):

"The health paradigm has no room for politics. This has nothing to do with politics. Our concerns are purely about public health and safety, and whether or not American society will choose a destructive route versus a life-affirming, constructive route. Disease by definition is destructive. What we are witnessing with Donald Trump's presidency are all signs of destruction. These symptoms are the dismantling of democracy, rampant corruption, thwarting the rule of law and even the loss of a shared sense of what reality actually is."

------

"With the Mueller report and other information, we believed that we had enough to come to a conclusion. But we wanted to give the president enough of an opportunity to submit to a personal examination. If Trump believes himself fit to be president, we believe he should submit to an examination. We have information that Donald Trump received our request but he did not respond affirmatively. We then issued our conclusion after the three-week period. Our conclusion was damning. The president failed to meet all four criteria that we outlined as the standard, most basic criteria for mental capacity.

"The first specific criterion is the ability to take in important information and advice. To be capable of taking in new information to make decisions, given how that is one of the primary and most important roles of a president.

"The second criterion is the ability to process that information unimpeded by emotional needs or false beliefs or the need to lie to yourself or others. The ability to simply use the information you have and process it in ways that are normal, unimpeded by all those other emotional factors and needs.

"The third criterion is to be able to make sound, rational, reality-based decisions without undue influence by impulsivity, other false beliefs, delusions and conspiracy theories. It's the ability to stay with a decision in a stable way and not to go back and forth depending on the other influences you receive. In essence, to be sane, to be connected to reality.

"The fourth is to not put yourself and others in danger. This includes not inciting people to commit dangerous acts. Not to engage in aggressive acts yourself. Not to threaten nations by inciting war. We have found that President Trump was not able to refrain from those acts in many circumstances. Trump has put himself and the nation in danger, and putting yourself or others in danger is also a very important criterion in determining a person's capacity to serve — in this case, Trump's fitness to be president. There is overwhelming evidence in the Mueller report showing that Donald Trump is not able to meet these criteria. Likewise, there is very little evidence showing that Donald Trump is able to meet those criteria."-- Bandy X. Lee, M.D., M.Div.

Dr. Lee is also the editor of "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump," a must read by 27 mental health experts.

Here's the interview.

Here's the report.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 21 weeks 2 days ago
#4

Good afternoon Diane.

Along the same venue here is everything on the Clinton foundation where most of the pay to play happens.....Think they want to cover this up??

Concentrating on Clinton Foundation Facts

http://charlesortel.com/

The attached Executive Summary continues an investigation into the Clinton Foundation public record begun, by chance, in February 2015.

Next subject.....How Sarah Sanders is being gaslighted.

Just amazing how the amature phycologists that declare Trump unfit never ever look at the MSM or themselves....yet they are postive they know what the right thinks. But it's All just their own projections and speaks to how they think. Out of the heart the mouth speaks?? Otherwise known as projecting ypur own hateful thoughts on to another person. Heck most people don't know what their own spouse or significant other really thinks.

Hence vile projections & outright lies replace debate a word unknown to most of the left.

Such as...

Covington Kid Nick Sandmann Sues NBC/MSNBC for $275 Million

Example of a Deliberate vile lie.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/covington-kid-nick-sandmann-sues-nbc-msnbc-for-275-million/

later!!

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 21 weeks 2 days ago
#5

Hey Diane,

Forgot I wanted to add this about climate change and debate.

Time for some facts?

https://aresathena.wordpress.com/2019/06/15/2953/

deepspace's picture
deepspace 21 weeks 1 day ago
#6

"Gooood morning, Vietnaaaam!"

Ha! "Great minds think alike."

And there you have it, Thom: proof positive (sigh, again) that your little blog out here in the hinterlands is still under a Russian-style attack by two insincere, intellectually dishonest trolls joined at the hip (or one disguised as two?). Apparently, their raison d'être is not only to dilute and pollute your material and any resulting conversation with off-topic nonsense wrung from Trumplandia but also, in several cases, to insult you personally.

Typically, the lame rejoinder is that they're merely offering an honest opposing viewpoint, that their sources are solid and objective, and that "leftie/socialists" just can't handle being told they're wrong -- all of it poppycock, nothing but deflective Trump-speak for disseminating lies, slander, and rewritten history -- all of it wrapped up in a tidy package with a splashy bow of feigned outrage. They know it; I know it; you know it; we all know it.

I believe you have written and spoken a lot about Karl Rove back in the day and are no doubt aware of his term "dump-trucking," whereby the beguiler piles so much garbage onto a conversation that it is nearly impossible for debate opponents in the time and space available to refute each false or misleading statement, mindless distraction, half-truth, misinformed "alternative fact," slanted article, and outright lie. That's exactly what the "Bobbsey twins" have been up to on this blog all along from the get-go. And they are incorrigible, but in a comical way, like a tragicomedy.

LMAO ...you might have noticed that, when time permits, I enjoy playing the role of trollslayer trolling the trolls. It's a hoot. But thanks for deleting the entire sordid history, especially that last interminably long thread several months back after you took a break from posting blogs here and shortly after Sue Nethercott retired. It was getting a tad ungainly at well over a thousand posts.

Oh yeah, almost forgot: Another rather odd occurrence is how both hobgoblins' computers happened to "flag" this site, strangely within one day in the first instance and within one week in the second, once I had posted for the very first time in a long time. Similarly, neither of them had posted for several months either, since the winter when everyone's posts were wiped clean. Then, suddenly, we all land here again at almost the same exact moment in time. WTF? Is there more coordination going on in Trollandia beyond chance encounters? Inquiring minds want to know.

Mmm ...seems I could have a few pet troglodytes in tow. Coool! Haha ...I don't think I'm the paranoid type, so we'll just write it off as some weird coincidence that defies the odds. You know, flukes happen. Twice in my life, I drew a straight flush with no wild cards playing seven-card stud.

Nevertheless, the following is entered into evidence as "Exhibit A" from a pithy exchange under your May 31, 2019 blog post, "Trade & Immigration - Trump's Campaign Rolls Forward..." when the two lovebirds first reconnected after their long hiatus:

  • Troll (#4): "Hi Hot Coffee, I stumbled back here after clicking on a long hidden bookmark."
  • Troll (#5): "Hi Diane, The post above is the first time I've been here since the last time we hooked up here. The site popped up when I was looking for another site and I thought I'd see if you were still posting! Interesting that we both ended up here at the same time in the same way."

Yes, interesting indeed. My theory is they secretly love me and have programmed cookies in their troll software (random "popup" ... "long hidden [sic] bookmark" ... black magic ... voodoo curses ... or what-the-ef-ever) to alert them whenever I post, so that they can follow me around like little lost puppies. Isn't that special... };--))

Dang, now they are wise not to engage directly in battle though. Sniff. It was kinda fun chasing down all their ludicrous "sources" and dragon-scorching as many phantasmal falsehoods as possible (and some quite frankly disgusting, irreligious racist screeds) with a wee bit of lively, Irish-style tongue-lashing.

Haha ...guess it's still kinda fun to give 'em a taste of their own medicine, a tit for tat dump-trucking so to speak, but with easily verifiable, factual information rather than the Trump cult's easily verifiable, oddball delusions. Still, traveling on their winding primrose path, however revealing, one does grow mighty weary.

Here at this blog as well as other internet sites and real-life venues (I reside sometimes in the backwaters of Trumplandia), by going down so many rabbit holes (to mix metaphors again) with such devout Trump supporters (He's a gift from "God" don't ya know.), one thing has become abundantly clear: This country, indeed this world, is divided primarily along one, gigantic fault line at virtually every point of contention. On one side is the truth; on the other is the lie. All of the vitriol and conflict lies in the vast chasm in between.

In that respect, contrary to conventional wisdom, gray areas do not exist in our consciousness at a deeper level. For whatever reason, we either learn something or we don't; we either see it or we don't; our understanding either grows or it doesn't. It's as simple as that.

But our surface thoughts -- dreams and schemes and insecurities -- compel the complexities that are in conflict with outside reality, as is our wont. How can a truth contain a lie, or a lie a truth? Yet, our stagnant, egocentric thought patterns inexplicably attempt the impossible over and over -- Einstein's definition of insanity. I guess that hanging on to comfortable illusions and delusions is just easier than facing scary realities. It's the lazy, cowardly way out.

It seems that this fundamental dichotomy is tearing the world apart.

It seems, therefore, that the most fundamental action any human being on Earth can take -- right now in this very moment and forever after -- is to try really, really hard to distinguish reality and truth from fantasy and lie. And don't sweat the small stuff; it's the "big picture" that matters. Don't be that fool who can't see the forest for the trees ...especially when there's so much gawdamn smoke from all those raging forest fires fanned by the hot winds of global warming!

Homo sapiens only have an ant's understanding of our universe, ergo our wider reality; so of course, it's ridiculous to assume anyone has all the right answers -- or any answers at all for that matter. Besides, sometimes the questions that open minds are more important than the answers because they lead to further inquiry. All we can do is work together as best we can in a colossal effort to comprehend this remarkable universe and this tiny planet teeming with life. In the end, science, common sense, compassion for all living things, and maintaining the balance of nature is our best chance to thread the needle and survive.

It's imperative we do so.

Otherwise, what's the point of evolving consciousness? The alternative is devolving consciousness. Perhaps our species is fated to destroy itself. Sure hope not. Living in a clean, beautiful paradise with fresh air, food, and water is also kinda fun ...almost as much as bashing the trolls. };--))

Unfortunately, the sand is running out of the hourglass of virtually every interdependent system in nature, as well as in society, thanks mainly to the paucity in the ability of meaningful collective thought and problem solving by too many members of our species in positions of power. With a mountain of evidence in support and a molehill to the contrary, any damn fool can see what's staring us in the face, if they only open their eyes. We may break down the details differently and argue over the minutia ad infinitum, but Mother Nature is a harsh mistress and doesn't care what we think. The inevitable happens, never good, when behavior doesn't adapt to changing conditions, like it or not.

And the window of opportunity to mitigate looming disaster for future generations is closing fast. It would be ludicrous, of course, for scientists to put a number on it, other than to say that in the timescale of geological history and the evolution of life, the infamous "tipping point" will be upon us relatively soon, probably sooner than we think.

That doesn't mean our species will be vaporized in a flash in the near future, just that planetwide mega-conditions will have worsened to the point where there's nothing humankind can do to slow down, let alone reverse, the quickening pace of decline due to an aggressive feedback loop. Then, we're just blowing in the wind at the mercy of nature's awesome forces as they increase in frequency and severity because of our own stupid behavior. Who knows how bad it will get ultimately, but one thing is certain: it will be a wild and crazy ride for our kids, and their kids, and their kids, and...

The unprecedented rate of anthropogenic climate disruption, the key to grasping the scope of the problem, is on a hockey-stick graph going almost straight up -- a deceptively "slow-motion" but inexorable carbon explosion and developing methane explosion magnitudes more forceful than even the end-Permian mass extinction event over 250 million years ago that annihilated 96 percent of sea life and 70 percent of terrestrial life. We are racing up that graph like there's no tomorrow, which could be true -- a self-fulfilling prophecy -- or at least a very terrible tomorrow.

It's the sad truth so many simply can't or won't accept, largely due to the constant negative conditioning by the ubiquitous propaganda of fossil-fuel titans and their buddies in ancillary industries, politics, and corporate media, all harboring ill-begotten fortunes entirely dependent upon mass ignorance, confusion, and inaction.

"The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many." Wait. What?

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 21 weeks 1 day ago
#7

Good Sunday to you HotCoffee. Another beautiful day here and the ocean has not risen up reached our front porch. Someday we can discuss sunspots and solar flares. For the moment, I will enjoy listening to the melodic tones of longhorn cattle farting knowing it is driving some leftie/socialist nuts with just the thought of such climate disruption.

Three minutes that will point out two things,

1. How uninformed young people are and the fact they can vote is really scary.

2. How wacky that little girl's hair sniffing candidate can be when it comes to talking about race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijV8Xm2uRG0&feature=youtu.be

Catch you tomorrow.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 21 weeks 1 day ago
#8

Three minutes of lies, slander, and innuendo. It's all ya got.

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 21 weeks 1 day ago
#9

Diane,

It's a beautiful Sunday here as well. Hope to got to enjoy that bloody mary!

Happy Father's Day to any Dads that happen to read this. Enjoy your day as it will possibly soon be extinct if the dems get their way.

Wonder how many times this will play during Joe's run. Maybe he's running just so he can do a little more sniffing...Hmm.

7 min. of Joe!

https://youtu.be/_H5NJZMDumY

Tomorrow it is!

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 21 weeks 14 hours ago
#10

It is Monday HotCoffee. The Covington kids thing made me smile. The WaPo, NYT, leftie/socialist cable media, and radio talking heads were covered with egg on their face. I hope those kids collect a bundle.

On to Oberlin college and those snot nosed kids that when caught red handed shoplifting decided they would play, you guessed it, Hatrmanns favorite, the race card.

Not to be outdone, the school which is left of leftie got in the fray and decided to jump into the mix and support protests against the bakery.

The attorney for these spoiled brats, BEFORE the jury had completed their job, went public with complaints of a "racist "jury. The judge and the jury didn't take too kindly of this stupid act and thus a potential award of $33million settlement for the bakery will be awarded.

Sometimes good s**t happens.

Which brings us to the number of federal judges President Trump has put on the bench which currently stands at 119 and counting. Thank you Harry Reid.

Later

HotCoffee's picture
HotCoffee 21 weeks 11 hours ago
#11

Hey Diane,

Good on Harry Reid and some of those judges are on the 9th circuit. Yes!

Here's one even the Dems should understand.

How To Create Conflict

https://www.dailywire.com/news/48452/williams-how-create-conflict-walter-e-williams

Have an awesome evening!

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