Coronavirus Crash: Worse Than Great Depression?

Thom plus logo The coronavirus crash has turned the fact that we don't make anything in America anymore from a topic for philosophical and political debate into a crisis in our hospitals causing people to die and endangering our frontline health care workers.

Even worse, there's nothing to catch us as and after we fall, because we don't have a manufacturing base to fall back on like we did the last time a crisis like this happened-in the late 1930s.

Most of our medical supplies and prescription drugs now come from China, for example, and that's producing a crisis in our hospitals because China isn't exporting N95 masks, ventilators and respirators like they were just six months ago.

Back in the day, the British knew that manufacturing was the core strength of a nation, which is why they forbade the colonists in 1770 from manufacturing most items that could be imported from Britain, and famously forbade the good people of India from even turning their own cotton into cloth and clothing (thus Gandhi's spinning wheel as a logo for protest).

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Hephaestus's picture
Hephaestus 4 years 12 weeks ago

Sadly, the british have lost wisdom and no longer know much of anything about building a nation

Globalism is actually fascism by stealth and government has been only too happy to engage

Government is bought and payed for by business

We need someone with intestinal fortitude in government to re-arrange

Not holding breath!

Worn out door knobs's picture
Worn out door knobs 4 years 12 weeks ago

Manufacting jobs have skyrocketed under President Trump

10 times the growth of the Obama administration.

humanitys team's picture
humanitys team 4 years 12 weeks ago

Grow Hemp, you can make at least 50 000 products .This plant
can substitute for so many non renewable resources.

Dependence is humanitys Achilles Heel .

deepspace's picture
deepspace 4 years 12 weeks ago

Hephaestus: If you grow special hemp, sometimes ya gotta hold your breath. };--))

Legend 4 years 12 weeks ago

Post #2

Funny how you have to go to old articles to find anything good. Yes the economy continued to boom after Obama left office. There are two common things in this chart. I will let you guess.

Legend 4 years 12 weeks ago

For profit hospitals do not carry inventory. Inventory cuts profits. Clearly with our for profit healthcare system we were not prepared for a pandemic.

Legend 4 years 12 weeks ago

Post #2. Plenty more where these come from. Really beyond me how anyone at this point can try to defend Trump.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 4 years 12 weeks ago

#2: Bravo -- Fact is an excellent source! That second one not so much.

Chuck DeVore is the very embodiment of "figures don't lie, but liars figure" -- a conservative professional spinmaster (aka, rightwing hack) straight out of the belly of the beast. The sewers of rightwing think tanks where he scurries about are normally the first to formulate the original lies and half-truths that cycle into each day's conservative news streams, which rightwing pundits then use to flesh out on their various media platforms, further disseminating Republican talking lies. A lot of this spun-up bat guano is initiated through the morning email feeds and text links to "The Base," which is the phrase cultish Republicans use to refer to their obsequious voters. Anyway, Devore's slanted article was written well before the fast-paced, real-time economic situation that is deteriorating faster than I can type this.

Sometimes Forbes ain't too bad ...for a billionaire rag that is. Although they're big proponents for the plutocracy status quo and therefore spin everything to the right, they do publish mostly factual information amazingly ...when it comes to their side of the one-percent economic equation anyway. They just don't shed a whole lot of light on the plight of the unwashed masses (aka, you and me). Also, be very wary of the rightwing opinion writers whom Forbes sprinkles liberally throughout their pages, both online and in print. Always double-check their numbers against neutral sources, such as

Conclusion: The economy under Trump did OK but not great.

Objective economists try to analyze all the economic numbers and average all the different sectors of economic growth or decline, including but not limited to: disaffected workers and the black market on the streets; people entering and leaving the workforce; the overall population expansion; consumer and wage inflation; international turbulence; war; atypical events like the pandemic; etc. -- that is to say, not just the blessings of the rich.

If a millionaire enters a bar, all the drunks inside just had their average wealth shoot up 99 percent or more. In a Republican bar, they'd thank him profusely and buy his drinks all night. In a Democratic bar, they'd get him blootered, fluthered, and rubbered, make him buy the drinks, and then pick his pockets. (Or was that a pub back on the Emerald Isle?) Anyway...

In fact, a lot of economists believe that the economy was resilient enough to survive, sometimes barely, not because of what Trump has done but in spite of what he has done. He hasn't exactly inspired confidence with: constantly lying about everything; tearing apart environmental and health safeguards (good regulations that protect both people and businesses); ridiculous and unnecessary trade wars; dangerous international brinkmanship coupled with weak indecisiveness; sowing confusion and hostility toward the U.S. by insulting friends and courting enemies; breaking treaties; disrupting trade pacts; now his pandemic leadership fiasco; and on and on...

Furthermore, one must never neglect to factor in the salient point that led back to a functioning economy in the first place: the fact that Obama, Pelosi, and the Democrats had to literally rescue the world economy from oblivion, from the devastation by the plutocracy under Republicans, who enabled The Village Idiot and Darth Cheney and the endless warfare in the Middle East, and who profited massively from all the death and mayhem until Humpty Dumpty came crashing down ...just like now.

History doesn’t repeat itself but it often rhymes.

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall;
All the King's horses
And all the King's men,
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

The infamous "Bikini Graph" says it all: Trump and his Party of Takers should be on their knees thanking the Democrats for their "intestinal fortitude in government to rearrange" [thanks, Hephaestus] the mess handed to them -- the economy that they turned around and handed back to Trump and all his shameless Republican mouthpieces, who've been riding the coattails ever since.

Figures don't lie, but Republicans sure do, especially under the tutelage of the biggest liar of all time. Lies, impeachment, and a strange hairdo are all that history will remember about the fake 45th president -- a little prick of dim light that fizzled out into nothing. It's gotta be getting up to 20,000 lies by now since inauguration, considering his rapid rate of increase just since the pandemic-cum-economic freefall.

The following are the real numbers that everyone should be looking at: (Remember, each digit, just a tiny colored squiggle, is a real human being who could be you or me or our loved one, a struggling soul with higher aspirations who feels both the good and bad of life most deeply in his or her own way, embodying the hopes and dreams -- the very spirit -- of all humanity.)

Legend 4 years 12 weeks ago

I fine it interesting that a lot of red states, especially the deep south, are not on lock down. FL is a great example with its elderly population. Going to lose a lot of Trump voters.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 4 years 12 weeks ago

Uh oh -- in one glance: the stable genius's hotels taking the big dive. It's easy enough to read this chart, even for him, that it's probably the one piece of paper you always see on Trump's Resolute Desk. Aww, ain't that special.


deepspace's picture
deepspace 4 years 12 weeks ago

#8: correcting the record:

  • 3rd p; 1st s; 14th w: replace "that" with "who," since you are referring to people, not things.
  • Hell, just rework the whole damn turd from top to bottom since it's nothing more than pure rightie hooey from your loud and obnoxious, socially unacceptable cult-meister. With Z-E-R-O reference to outside reality, the piece makes absolutely no sense to normal people not indoctrinated with the finer points of wingerism-- only to low-information internet trolls chock-full of endless lies, arguing mostly against themselves as they try to wield a hopeless jumble of disjointed mistruths randomly bouncing around in cavernous skulls.
deepspace's picture
deepspace 4 years 12 weeks ago

Mmm ...empty space for another screed.

#14: Nailed it! The crooked, greedy, psychopathic mayor in that "JAWS" scene is Trump. He even looks like a brother F*ckface von Clownstick dressed in that flashy 70s suit with his dismissive attitude and smug look.

And he definitely acts just like our real genocidal maniac, the one "in charge" of an entire nation facing a debilitating catastrophe on all fronts, the one who disregarded the harsh reality looming on the horizon and the widespread sickness and loss of human life so that Trump, Inc. [more here] might keep the good times a-rolling and the money a-flowing into hotels, restaurants, golf courses, and of course, into his personal bank account.

Oh yeah, he also ignored the truth to keep "his economic numbers up" to win reelection. Naturally. That just goes without saying. Well then, good luck, Charlie, with that whole clinging to power thing to keep from getting thrown in the slammer with your foot soldiers and the hired help, à la the Mueller report. Resisting the certainty of inevitability is illogical, dishonest, and never ends well. You'd think a "stable genius" in his 70s would have figured that out by now.

Does psychiatry now have to redefine malignant narcissism and psychopathy to make it more politically palatable so that Republicans have better odds of getting elected?

Take this gawddamn Republican fool (Pease!): Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who pretty much did the exact same thing portrayed by the mayor in JAWS. Maybe DeSantis should be that guy in a movie called "VIRUS!"

A wingnut cretin -- defying the loudly broadcast warnings of every expert in the world (Screw science!) -- has consciously and deliberately committed the worst offense imaginable that a community leader could possibly commit against his community during the early stages of a pandemic:

He allowed thousands upon thousands of highly likely COVID-19 carriers to crowd together and party on his beaches!

WTF! That reckless, mindboggling lack of judgment, leadership, and empathy toward fellow human beings allowed this highly transmittable, quickly moving, and surprisingly hardy contagion to spread far and wide, once the spring-breakers shed the long-surviving pathogen on the beaches, sidewalks, in parks, hotels, restaurants, bars, buses, and airports (cha-ching!) and then departed for all compass points domestic and international. How in the hell is that degree of criminal negligence not both a "high crime" and a major felony deserving of impeachment and imprisonment?!

Then, like a brat caught in the act, Little Ronny lamely tried to shift the blame of his repulsive behavior -- the unconscionable failure to initiate his own "shelter-in-place order" -- onto New Yorkers who are desperately striving to do the right thing by issuing their order for all nonessential citizens to stay put at home, dammit, except for essential needs!

And never forget, in the calm before the storm during this pandemic's well-known and absolutely critical 2-3 week period when the silent vanguard of the "U.S Virus" (Insulting, isn't it?) was secretly incubating here in the good 'ol USA, New Yorkers, as well as everyone else in the trenches on the front line, received little or no effective central coordination, critical supplies, or strategic guidance worth a crap from The Whitewash House.

Listen up, soldier, a pandemic is a stealth weapon waiting to explode like a ticking time bomb! You gotta get your eyes on it! You gotta massively re-supply way ahead of time and then test, test, test, quarantine, surveil, perform extensive contact tracing, and enforce strict social distancing.

Another key imperative is to aggressively develop reliable serological examinations -- blood tests that detect the presence of antibodies to determine which people have been exposed to COVID-19 and may now have an immunity that lasts for at least a few years, possibly a lifetime. [here and here] Hopefully, we'll have a vaccine before the initial immunities might wear off. Meanwhile, those who are deemed safe, after having recovered and are no longer shedding viruses, can get back to work and reboot the economy.

That's what it takes to ultimately beat this thing, medically and economically. That's what everyone else in the world already knew almost three months ahead of time before this ghostly foe invaded America's shores. Obama's Pandemic teams, which Trump foolishly disbanded in 2018, knew that years in advance from their Ebola battles. So if Trump's team says they were caught off guard, they're lying. Again.

And this pivotal time frame was the monumentally missed opportunity to respond wisely, rationally, and in a timely fashion that will undoubtedly go down in history as one of the worst blunders of any modern president. The longterm effect on our society could even end up being more harmful than the consequence of the depraved decisions by Bush the Younger.

"The Decider," enthralled with the neoliberal jingoism of oligarchs, ensnared the U.S. forever in Middle-Eastern partisan warfare over oil and influence between the region's dominant religious factions, costing the lives and livelihoods of uncountable millions -- Republican foreign policy in all its glory! This time the hugely negative impact of Trump's decisions will take place right here at home.

Only a fool argues with Mother Nature. Things like human-caused global warming or a natural calamity like a pandemic are not to be trifled with, not to be merely talked away; thus, the unanswered question on everybody's mind: Where was our fearless leader and his "stable genius" when it mattered the most?

Alas, the "war-time president" was still in stubborn denial mode, using a squishy, schizophrenic word salad to fight a deadly disease -- his standard glossary of childish lies, babble, blame, insults, denials, and deflections that have served the manboy so well throughout his gilded life. Until now.

Trumpism is itself a contagion, and Ron DeSantis is a viral copy of his brainsick mentor, the impeached president of the United States of America, Donald John Trump.

Death on the beach; life imitating art: Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY) responds to the brazen hypocrisy of Ron DeSantis:

Legend 4 years 12 weeks ago

Trump says if we keep the deaths to 100000 we are doing good. Fauci predicts 100000 to 200000. We are at 2500. We have a long long road ahead of us!

It is very difficult to see an end to this. Bolasnaro, President of Brazil (Actually may be worse than Trump, never thought that I could type that) Plans on doing nothing. So unless we ban all flights from Brazil it will keep feeding into the USA.

Also our preparations for this was sending our medical supplies to China.

They tell us not to wear masks. Taiwan a nation of 24 million has 250 cases total. They all wear masks.

Worn out door knobs's picture
Worn out door knobs 4 years 12 weeks ago

Are there people who would post here besides the mental patient and the Hateful, pompous, scumbag. I would so like to read something interesting and intelligent here....zzzzzzz

Xfilerose 4 years 12 weeks ago

The product of the presidents Too Little Too Late legacy is a direct result of his inability to lead and his commitment to non-partisan politics and political dominance => plenty of “decisions” but no win’s for the country or the people. To perpetuate him into another term would be a plague to the country as a whole. The lack of ability to coordinate a concise approach to control and eliminate coronavirus is obvious but is it intentional. Contradictory direction with focus on the stimulus now having 4 phases with platforms in place to exploit the money while offering no clear communications or device on how to control the virus is a crisis in itself. This ensures continuation of the virus crisis and monetary exploits. Under this plan, we are dead, ongoing social distancing engineers the collateral damage to kill small business (a long standing Republican agenda) and the weight of the stimulus will deplete everything. If our economy is not dead when his plan reaches it’s conclusion, our country will be in worse condition than it was after the civil war, which if you recall was exactly his threat to us if we don’t put him in office for another term. The entire front line of his approach reeks the stench of campaign and his plan to stay in office. Is this a plan or a pandemic? Is the crisis being hijacked to pursue an alter agenda? Is the real end game the demise of Social Security under a plausibly deniable root cause?

Legend 4 years 12 weeks ago

Post #17, read post #8, that should keep you busy for a month.

Legend 4 years 12 weeks ago

Arizona Gov. Ducey will not lock down. Avoid that state. Hate to say that. I lived there in the 70's and like the state. Usually visit relatives at least once per year. It has overgrown itself and has a right wing luntic government. Big outbreak on the Navajo/Hopi Reservation. Flagstaff Hospital is at capacity.

Legend 4 years 12 weeks ago

Very little is being discussed about the economic effects of this virus and the trillions that we are spending. Certainly nothing is said about raising taxes or cutting spending to pay for it. Current plan is to just print money. Which can only lead to drastic inflation. So, for the $1500 that you might get you will get massive inflation. If you are on a fixed income this will drastically cut the value of your income in the future. This applies to every year of the rest of your life.

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