If the 25th Amendment isn't invoked, what will Trump do next?

Thom plus logo TS Eliot famously said that the world will end "not with a bang, but a whimper." It's also how strongman dictator reigns typically end, and Trump is no exception. He's having his "Downfall bunker moment," and it could be very dangerous.

Meanwhile, the nation is discovering that large swaths of the Republican Party, from senior elected officials to media figures to working class people, are filled with neoNazi fascists, psychopaths, and gullible but well-armed conspiracy nuts, all egged-on by social media.

In the next month, Trump could start a war to try to provoke an emergency that might keep him in office. He could order the military to occupy the swing states to overturn the election results. He could bury hundreds more fascist wannabes in the federal civil service system.

Trump has now called over 150 elected Republicans asking them to steal the election and destroy the American republic. More than a few have been quite willing to go along with him. Day after day, he's discussing using the military to seize control of America.

If ever this country had a moment when needed a vice president and cabinet who would step up and invoke the 25th Amendment to stop a president who is threatening both national security and the lives of his citizens, it is now. Unfortunately, we have Mike Pence.

This is a historic turning point. If Trump started what turned into a nuclear war, it could end human life on earth. The few remaining Republicans willing to stand up to Trump must turn their attention to Mike Pence, the one man who can legally invoke the 25th Amendment and stop Trump now.



stopgap's picture
stopgap 2 years 22 weeks ago

When Trump campaigned on draining the swamp, he really meant he would pardon the swamp!!!

It really is hard not to despise anyone that voted for this slimy piece of shit!

Hephaestus's picture
Hephaestus 2 years 22 weeks ago

Why only Pence?

An obsequious sycophant is not likely to invoke the 25th against his "hero"

Trump is a mad man mental head case that does not see human decency as a norm

Doctors with army back up need to be sent into the WH to take him away in a straight jacket... then given some ill deserved treatment


djgilbert 2 years 22 weeks ago

The dangers of a "convenient" war are substantial. The scenario set out in the 1984 BBC docudrama "Threads" is too close for comfort now, especially with the countries involved.

Watch the movie to understand what could be set loose by one person's deficiencies in our system of elected monarchy without accountability.

Robertcd's picture
Robertcd 2 years 22 weeks ago

I wonder where are the leaders of the Democrats are on this, I hope not sitting on their hands! The known addage here is that Evil always prevails when good men do nothing.

Riverplunge's picture
Riverplunge 2 years 22 weeks ago

How can one man start a war? Where is Congress and the senate

The republicans are the majority. Why don't they get the blame??

The Dems always do when they are the majority!

tobygonzo 2 years 22 weeks ago


Thanks for this tip on the docudrama Threads. I checked Wikipedia and find it free viewing on Tubi.com! Going to check this one out.

alis volat's picture
alis volat 2 years 22 weeks ago

It really is hard to figure out who is more disgusting, Trump or Pence. Trump is damaged goods, but Pence had a decent start in life. In fact, he was a Democrat and is from a family of Democrats. What happened? Reagan and being "born again". The Wiki page on him does not paint a pretty picture. He knows how to get his bills paid out of the funds given to him for a campaign.

In RAGE by Bob Woodward, Pence's thing seems to be telling others steady on in situations where Trump is freaking out the people in his adminstration. You know, it's the ol' don't worry---God will take care of you attitude. That works for him, because then he doesn't have to take care of anything or anyone.

I am pretty sure there will be no Mike to the rescue. Thank goodness all those stupid people are giving Trump the money he "needs". It makes Elliot's whimper theory much more likely.

Legend 2 years 22 weeks ago

Interesting. Congress passes the covid relief bill. Mnuchin was a main negotiator in this representing the Executive office (Trump). Now Trump threatens to not sign it because the $600 is to paltry and wants $2000. Of course the Republican Senate will never pass anything more than $600. He also wants to get rid of "wasteful and unnecessary" items in the Bill. So Congress should eliminate the 3 Martini lunch. Next episode of the Lame Duck Lunatic?

I hope that the Republicans in GA are watching the pardons and how corrupt they are. The one ex Congressman had 27 felonies. There are more to come. Republican corruption.

SueN's picture
SueN 2 years 22 weeks ago

Unfortunately it has to be Pence. The 25th says...

"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President..."

Legend 2 years 22 weeks ago

You can forget Pence doing anything. He is nothing but Trumps Butler.


At least 8 years ago I flew to Taiwan for a job that I was working on. I departed the plane and walking down an aisle I got stopped by nurses (dressed in the full nursing outfits) and had a temperature check. It was quick and efficient (seconds). When I asked why other passengers were not being stopped they indicated that a remote sensor had detected a high temperature on me. The nurse then measured my cell phone in my shirt pocket and it had gotten hot searching for a signal. They said that was the usual indicator. I recently flew to CA and back on a part time job and never had any temperature check. I did wear a KN95 mask and wore safety glasses on both flights. But recently a guy died on a United flight and had Covid. It literally takes seconds to check forehead temps, Why is this not done to every passenger?

RepubliCult's picture
RepubliCult 2 years 22 weeks ago

The 25th is yet another malfunctioning part of the consitution, demanding reform. Same for executive pardons, and executive accountability! All get in line with other gigantic problems that need fixing, including but not limited to...

A) Demolish the Electoral College

B) Mandate Senate reapportionment

C) SCOTUS term limits and a regular orderly process for hiriing and retiring judges

D) Prohibit partisan gerrymandering

E) Establish an inalienable and unequivocal Right To Vote in all elections for all Americans

...this constitutes (sure I'll take the pun!) a good beginning! Wow, America has a LOT of work to do to as yet become a democracy.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 22 weeks ago

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

"The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor." - Voltaire

"The paradise of the rich is made out of the hell of the poor." - Victor Hugo

"If every man took only what was sufficient for his needs, leaving the rest to those in want, there would be no rich and no poor." - Saint Basil

“They [Democrats] want to make rich people poorer, and poor people more comfortable.” - Mike Pence

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 22 weeks ago

RepubliCult #11: That is "a good beginning!"

Plus, we absolutely need to pass airtight publicly-financed campaign laws and get all big money out of politics!

For any of that to happen though, the electorate needs to be convinced in large enough numbers to force their state and DC politicos to change the Constitution through the amendment process -- an intentionally very difficult and cumbersome process.

Unfortunately, it's the corporate media empires that have the most power of persuasion nowadays, and, go figure, they happen to be the primary beneficiaries of all that over-the-top campaign spending by their buddies and soulmates, the wealthy elite. So they won't do the right thing voluntarily and take a cut in pay to the tune of billions of dollars. It's like asking fossil-fuel tycoons to back the Green New Deal, save the planet, and lose trillions. Ain't never gonna happen no how no way, Charlie!

In other words, expecting the soulless "free" market to develop a selfless, non-greedy conscience and to effect positive, people-oriented changes in society is a fool's gambit. The common citizens who make society function -- who pay most of the taxes through their blood, sweat, and tears -- need to rise up in overwhelming numbers and force change. We cannot sit back and simply leave it up to "fate," which is not an actual thing.

Call it socialism, call it a ham sandwich, but that's what needs to happen. Otherwise, we'll continue down the road to fascism, where the rich will become richer and the poor will become poorer -- the common denominator throughout human history.

Legend 2 years 22 weeks ago

As long as idiots that should not be Republican keep voting Republican you will never accomplish anything. Look at the recent covid relief bill. Out of a Democratic Congress and it is 6000+ pages and full of Pork. Has enough gifts to the Republicans to get it through the Senate. Then blown up by Trump.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 22 weeks ago

"ReTrumplicons" wish you an unmerry Christmas and an unhappy New Year.

Legend 2 years 22 weeks ago

I hope the people in GA are paying attention to these pardons. I am sure that this is just the beginning of the corruption.

My across the street neighbors have put their Trump/Pence sign in their garage window. HOA requires that owners take down political signs 5 days after an election. It is aimed at me everytime I walk or drive out of my driveway. I guess they want to somehow rub it in my face. Gives me a good chuckle. You cannot fix Stupid.

cuz's picture
cuz 2 years 22 weeks ago

To put a lighter note on all the negativity here,

Merry Christmas to all and remember,

There is nothing in this world that can trouble you more than your own thoughts.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 22 weeks ago

To put an honest note on all the false cuz spin here:

How condescending. Do you see what Gautama Buddha reincarnate is not-so-cleverly doing here with secondhand "wisdom wizzed" in a perverse and patronizing context as if a more profound meaning is personally understood? Outside reality -- e.g., ReTrumplicons' utterly irreligious inhumanity -- is merely the trouble of your own negative thought processes. See, it's all your fault just for thinking about it.

Sorry, solipsism is junk philosophy but typical of gullible Trump acolytes who willingly dwell in his irrational, fantastical, and destructive delusions. ("Biden did not win fair and square, and I am not a loser.")

And as far as missing out on all the Christmas cheer: tell that to the families of the 14 Iraqi innocent civilians slaughtered by the vile war criminals, whom Trump just pardoned; to the families with empty plates at the table once belonging to 326,000 dead Americans, most of whom Trump is criminally responsible for; to the starving families in desperate need of relief, whom Trump, McConnell, McCarthy, and the Republican sperms of Satan have condemned to a miserable existence with their demented, deliberate stinginess -- their Grinch Chrismas gift to America.

But... Don't worry, be happy.

Worn out door knobs's picture
Worn out door knobs 2 years 22 weeks ago

Wishing Everyone all the best

Merry Christmas

cuz's picture
cuz 2 years 22 weeks ago

@Worn out door knobs.

Apparently well wishes are not welcome here.

Sorry if I offended anybody.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 22 weeks ago

cuz: How about just a straight-up holiday greeting without the snide qualifiers?

Worn out door knobs: Thank you. Wishing you and everyone a Merry Christmas also.

SueN's picture
SueN 2 years 22 weeks ago

Merry Christmas, all who celebrate it, and let's hope we all have a much happier new year.

Worn out door knobs's picture
Worn out door knobs 2 years 22 weeks ago


There are some on this site who appear to have serious emotional and psychlological issues. Don't let them define you. Express your opinion it's worth hearing.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 22 weeks ago

Tch, tch, tch, such negativity.

Speaking of serious emotional and psychological issues, here's your favorite guy whom you've never failed to defend:

Legend 2 years 22 weeks ago

Remember 4 years ago when the likes of Doorknobs and Cuz were calling us sore losers. Granted Hillary had won the popular vote by 3 million and only lost the non democratic Electoral College. Now that Biden has kicked butt and Trump has filed 50 lawsuits. Many Republican Senators and Congressmen refuse to admit defeat. They have the unmitigated gaul to call us negative and that we have serious emotional and psychological issues. Hypocrites is not even close enough of a description.

cuz's picture
cuz 2 years 22 weeks ago

Worn Out Doorknobs,

Thanks for the advice.

It looks like a lot of assumptions about me were made rather quickly without anything more than a simple post with a Merry Christmas and a rather sage quote.

Some point down the line let me know what puddles not to venture in and who will be the ones to immediately leap on a post with presumptions without any knowledge of one's background or beliefs.

Other than that, look for better days ahead as the world returns to some state of normalcy in 2021.

Best wishes to all.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 22 weeks ago

OMG -- clutch your pearls, ladies!

People "define" themselves by their own words. And they further define themselves by running away from their own words, by attempting to redefine what they actually said originally.

To clarify, no "assumptions" on my part were made out of context. No "presumptions" were made about personal "background or beliefs." To assume so is presumptuous. It "appears" that psychological projection is on full display in the words of both doorknobs and cuz.

To back up, in the context of this particular thread -- the extremely grave topic of an unhinged and out-of-control President, rejected by the majority of the People in a free and fair election, yet who is actively undermining the basic tenets of democracy like a tinpot dictator in a banana republic -- cuz interjected an opinion (which of course is always "welcome," as is also, of course, the forceful rejection of that opinion, free speech being a two-way street) with the observation about "all the negativity here" and "remember, [sic] There is nothing in this world that can trouble you more than your own thoughts."

Cuz, not me, is who placed those two thoughts in very close proximity in the context of this particular thread. I just took the liberty of rewording them more directly (Excuuuse me!) to point out the ludicrous nature of that oh-so "simple" thought juncture, which pops out as an underlying salient point of said "well wishes" and as it might, perhaps, "appear" to a random reader of the whole thread.

Again, whether one is aware of it or not, indirectly "assuming" that the objective "negative troubles" of Trumpworld -- as laid out in this thread -- are merely the result of "[our] own thoughts" is the essence of solipsism, a contagious thought virus in the ranks of Trumpees. However, I did not say that cuz knowingly subscribes to such a belief or is, in fact, a Trumpee. Haha -- "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

BTW: A quote (sage or not), for purposes of clarification, is normally distinguished from one's own words with quotation marks.

The context of words matter.

Legend 2 years 21 weeks ago

The average Republican is very much like Trump, delusional.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 21 weeks ago

...by definition.

Legend 2 years 21 weeks ago

When the Republican 1% donate unlimited campaign money to a candidate the expect and get a Return on Investment (ROI).

Red states do not follow CDC vaccine protocals. Stop shipments of Vaccine to TX and FL.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 21 weeks ago

The silence is deafening.

"Onward, Christian Soldiers!" So where are all the good Christians missing in action in the Republican Party who should be loudly condemning Trump's unholy pardon of war criminals?

The answer is obvious: goodness cannot serve wickedness. And the badly mistitled "Grand" Old Party has become a death cult possessed by demons in red hats (phony Christians, in name only) who slavishly worship greed, selfishness, cruelty, and a sadistic demagogue -- the false gods before them.

Worn out door knobs's picture
Worn out door knobs 2 years 21 weeks ago

Happy New Year Everyone!!

Let's make 2021 the best year ever.

"If the only prayer you said was thank you, that would be enough."

Meister Eckhart

cuz's picture
cuz 2 years 21 weeks ago

I will echo Worn out door knobs wishes. Let's all strive to make it a good year.


"America is not divided by race, color, gender, or sexual orientation.

America is divided into wise people and fools,

and fools divide themselves by race, color, gender, or sexual orientation."

Author unknown.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 21 weeks ago

America is divided by the fools in the Republican Party who follow the biggest fool of all.

Here's a partial list of Trump's solidly on-the-record criminal derelictions of duty. The Donald -- the corrupt and bankrupted businessman, the irreligious and immoral sexist pussy-grabber, the impeached one-term wonder who lost the popular vote twice by the millions -- has:

Attacked peaceful protesters and Black Lives Matter marchers with "guvmut" shock troops; incited far-right violence by his fascist followers; sought to throw out the votes of mostly black people in the big cities of the swing states; ripped little brown babies from their mothers' arms; locked little brown kids in cages; thrown out the records needed to reunite hundreds of the traumatized families with their kidnapped children; banned whole countries with different religions just to appease his bigoted base of white-nationalists and fake Christians; arbitrarily violated and broken international treaties; betrayed erstwhile allies on the battlefield; pardoned the worst of war criminals; emboldened dictators across the globe by excusing their atrocities and fawning all over them like an emotionally damaged child seeking approval from an authoritarian daddy figure; totally lost a major cyber war to his butt-buddy Putin, as Russia -- and god knows who else -- burrows into our computer systems and secrets; deliberately violated the Constitution "bigly" on nearly a daily basis; installed Wall Street swamp-goons in key regulatory agencies; stupidly ignored science on all fronts; eagerly spread wild conspiracy theories from the lunatic fringe of wingers; arrogantly failed to follow the advice of medical experts; allowed a deadly pandemic to run wild and kill 350,000 fellow citizens; caused a major recession/depression as a consequence of his own negligent and immature decisions; cheated every chance he got in two general elections; repeatedly lied over 25,000 times to the American people throughout his four years in office; shamelessly fleeced his gullible base for recurring donations, never mind the fine print; forced taxpayers to subsidize his 300-plus golf junkets and overpriced hotels, all the while cheating habitually to the nth degree on his underpaid taxes and overleveraged businesses.

And now, on January 6, as predictable as a hangover, America's greatest loser of all time actually expects the hapless Mike Pence and the Republican traitors in Congress to overturn the Will of the People in a desperate, delusional, anti-democratic last bid to keep "the boss" in power despite the odds. Well, that's the tripe he peddles to the mega MAGA fools on his money-for-nothing mailing list anyway.

This new year will be tough going for shell-shocked Americans reeling from all the physical, emotional, and psychological abuse. But at least the Trump crime family and death cult will no longer be running their self-dealing, horribly harmful scams from the White House after January 20.

To the 81.3 million from all races and ethnicities who voted the right way, thank you.

And to the 74.2 million losers, don't be fooled again the next time you vote. Or else, shame on you! Instead, fight against the widespread racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, religious bigotry, and fascism that has been tormenting your party for decades and decades. Stand up for truly representative democracy and a brighter future for all our children regardless of their "race, color, gender, or sexual orientation." Don't be fools and hypocrites.

"This is the way."

Legend 2 years 21 weeks ago

A year in review of the mis information that Fox News feeds its viewers. It brainwashes the weak minded followers.


deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 21 weeks ago

That's an amazing compilation! Indisputable facts in the public record -- a nice year-end cap on Media Matters' extensive research.

Couple the Fux News' brainwash bubble with the rest of the misinformation/disinformation/mal-information in the right-wing parallel universe and alternate reality, and it's no wonder why working-class Republicans continually vote against their own best interests and those of their families. The biggest schism in American politics is between truth and fiction, both of which inform one's viewpoint, accurately or inaccurately.

Trump's thought virus (reworded): "[ I'm ] going to disappear one day; it's like a miracle, [ I ] will disappear."

Thank god that day is only 19 days away when the washed-up crybaby man-child with no power will finally get dumped on the garbage heap of history. Trump's whiny, toothless tweets will be nothing but lost little snowflakes in the blizzard of wingnuttery as the world passes him by. No one but a rapidly shrinking cadre of dead-enders will give a shit about whatever vomit he spews.

Hopefully, not soon enough, big corporate media will find another shiny object and move on too. They won't be attracting the big advertising bucks by flogging a dead horse. The fading twilight of the Trump saga might linger a while longer on the Page Six gossip column in the New York Post, but even Rupert Murdoch is getting bored with Donald's whole schtick.

Note to MSM: Let me know when Trump et al. land in prison; otherwise, don't bother me with their pathetic lives.

stopgap's picture
stopgap 2 years 21 weeks ago

Whenever you hear some Trumper-Republican saying they “saw a video” as evidence to prop up one of their dumbass points. Just reply. Yeah! I saw a video of a giant gorilla climbing the Empire State Building and snatching planes out of the sky…I saw a video of a giant sea monster devouring Tokyo…I saw a video of space aliens invading the planet…and so on…

“I Saw A Video” my ass.

Legend 2 years 21 weeks ago

Fox has now become the bad network to the Republicans because it is not right wing loony enough. Here is one that a neighbor (the one that still has a Trump/Pence sign pointed at my driveway) recommended that I read. They eat this stuff up and it is brainwashing them with misinformation. With Social Media (Watch The Social Dilemma on Netflix) and Streaming on the internet, you have 24/7 misinformation/dis-information/mal-information as deepspace calls it. Above is an article on Wikipedia on Right wing media. There is no such article on Left Wing media. Why? Because it does not have the 1% support. It does not have the radio stations. It does not have the loony tunes evangelicals. It does not have the outer space Qanon.

Meanwhile, with 19 days left, Trump is beating the Iran war drums and the media is helping him.

Typical Trump supporter.

Good for a laugh!

This article is old but is so true.

The Republican Party, The Party of Fascism, Oligarchy and Autocracy.


Legend 2 years 20 weeks ago

The Republican Party, The Party of deceit and lies. 16 days. Todays news:






Recommend Al Franken's latest Podcast. He does a weekly Podcast. He interviews Democratic Party Lawyer about the cases against Joe Biden's victory and the 73% of Republicans that think the election was stolen.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 20 weeks ago

This morning on his golden throne dropping a deuce, the fake president tweeted out, "The number of cases and deaths of the China Virus is far exaggerated in the United States..."

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, it's a Sunday miracle! Hear ye, hear ye -- for once in his miserable life, the Liar in Chief made a statement, albeit ignorantly, that was absolutely correct. Quasimodo, ring the bell!

It is a gross exaggeration to say 350,000 Americans died from the "China Virus."

The truth is 350,000 Americans died from the Trump Virus.

deepspace's picture
deepspace 2 years 20 weeks ago

By the time the Christmas holiday COVID surge begins to overwhelm the already overwhelmed hospitals and medical staff in late January and early February, the true U.S. death toll from the Trump Virus is likely to be closing in on half a million or more.

How can this man who thinks he's above the law not be held accountable for crimes against humanity? Biden's Attorney General better think long and hard about putting all political calculations aside and standing up for "truth, justice, and the American way."

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