Different rhetoric. Same GOP. BTW-- Who caught former govenor Palin speaking at CPAC on C-SPAN this past weekend? She was disparaging the President for over reliance on teleprompters just as the C-Span camera caught an angle of her facing, you guessed it, TELEPROMPTERS!! While she was guzzling down a super-sized soft drink prompt. The more things change....

This really puts the "makers" vs "takers" issue into proper perspective.

As long as corporate outsourcing is permitted the American worker will be butting heads with sweatshop labor in the third world. It comes down to the fact that some level of "protectionism" (call it Socialism if you like) will be required to reverse the downward spiral that's stagnated wages for our middle class. What's ironic is that, at a personal level, successful business people practice nepotism. But as for the public at large, if you ain't in the family, tough luck, buddy.

Absolutly DANNEMARC, My commentary IS very general, and yes simplified...I know what I ment and I am sure others that have come to know my style, perspective, and purpose - such as yourself - understand what I am getting at.
Sure I am very aware that not all Capitalist are dirty rotten scoundrals. And I am even more aware that even though "relgion" can be crippling...There are many good and sincere practicing Christians. That goes for all who practice unconditional love for their brothers and sisters, and volunteer their time to be of service; regardless of race, creed, religion, sex, financle status, etc.
We are all in this together and irregardless of what religious and/or political philosophy one follows, everything we do (you, me, everyone), has a ripple effect. To much of any one "thing" is not good, and will eventually fall from grace.

Right now we are witness to what happens when you allow Capitalism to run a muck. It's happened before, and Thomas Jefferson warned us of such practices...The challenge is to maintain a steady ballance...To not become foolish...To not get fooled.
As for those Dirty Rotten Scoundrals...They have always been peppered through out history, i.e Christopher Columbus, but it is up to us how their stories are documented.

The best trick the devil ever pulled was convincing others that he wasn't the devil.

Repeat. Now I know what Ken Ware was complaining about. How did that happen?

Great post 1950, well actually 2950 - 1024, right?

One of the challenges with a system that allocates resources in a manner other than via an open and competitive market (which requires regulation for sure) is the difficulty in making even reasonably efficient decisions about what and how much to produce. Looking at history, the societies that tried to use central planning for their resource allocations tended to improve at first, usually overcoming the plunder of the nation's wealth by dictators or the like. But as those societies emerged from abject poverty for the masses to some semblance of a modest standard of living for all, they found that they faced chronic shortages and waste. A modern society is far too complex to manage via central planning on the question of production. I would submit that human nature is rational, and when a person is more productive than average, but receives only average compensation, they tend to turn their productivity toward less tangible things. this may still be beneficial to society if they are involved in the arts or other activities with positive externalities, but overall we can observe that a socialist system for allocation of productive resources and a distribution that is primarily based on need vs output is less productive. In fact, we have few if any truly socialist economies that have even survived into the modern post-industrial era without adopting a lot of open market methods.

All is not lost however. We do not want the brutal realities of unrestrained capitalism. The cost of the cycles of boom and bust impact individuals far too harshly through no fault of their own. This is not how a healthy society of human beings relates to one another. So we have created modified capitalism, or modified socialism if you prefer. A mix of market based allocation of productive resources to produce the right amounts of the right things, and investment by government in those services and facilities that require participation by all to be viable economically. Then we apply fiscal policies, both taxation and spending, to manage the economy for the goal of the highest standard of living for the average person, with a safety net for those who cannot fend for themselves. We all contribute in proportion to our ability to do so, spreading the impact on individuals as equally as we can without detracting from the goal. Our goal is to achieve the highest standard of living for the average person, and to do this we must allow some significant variations in that standard to allow for the motivation to produce outstanding results.

It can be done, and it's being done here and there, for periods of time. There is a pendulum effect in my humble opinion. When we go too far with redistribution of wealth, or we fail to ask people of wealth to contribute proportionally we see a reaction from the rest of the arc of the pendulum, and the balance moves back toward the center. Our values as a society evolve over time, and some are unique to the particular nation, it's history and it's people. But human nature seems to want a reasonable mix of reward for achievment, initiative and effort, but also compassion for those less capable. When we venture too far in either direction, we pull ourselves back as a majority of the people begin to experience a deficit compared to what they experience in the normal range.

Thank you for sharing OUTBACK...I've had that book on my Must Read List...I just moved it to the top. You may recall I recommended "Passionate Declarations; essays on war and justice": by Howard Zinn. I hope you will make a point to read it...assuming you haven't already.

Obedience to Government is the sign of a Totolitarian State.

Timothy Gilmore ~ Your posts are most compelling indeed. You are another voice that should be heard more often.

Communism is Christianity. You make a very convincing argument. I'm versed in Christianity; not so much Communism. However, may I ask if this is true, why did Russia banish the church and ban religion. Seems self defeating to me.

Money should be banned. I can imagine the resistance you will encounter with that suggestion. However, expect no resistance from me. Personally, I think it is an excellent idea. Your conclusion makes perfect sense to me:

"By voluntarily using our skills and abilities to benefit humanity by structuring service, social and industrial unions to produce, develop and distribute the world's resources we can abolish the overwhelming social ills caused by money: poverty, homelessness, global environmental destruction, waste, illiteracy, war, injustice, crime, slavery, governmental and corporate corruption and fraud, overpopulation and ill health around the world."

Society provides for the needs of everyone in exchange for volunteering for the service of your choice for society. It makes perfect sense. Such a scenario would foster "a desire to serve" that would overwhelm all other human desires and thus achieve the ends you've mentioned.

Timothy Gilmore I believe you have hit upon a winning strategy. Please read my Matthew quote above and remember it when people knock your plan, as I'm sure they will. Don't give up! Believe in yourself and nothing else. I believe in you! I think you have the solution we've all been waiting for. You can count on my support! Thank you!

As long as we use money as a medium of exchange, we will always have poverty. It's the basic economic principle of supply and demand. There must be a constant and increasing demand for money; otherwise it's valueless. Those who most need money must continually labor for it simply to survive. The more people need it, the more willing they are to do abominable things to get it. Wealthy and politically powerful people control the money supply, restricting global trade for profits. Used for world domination and the spread of terrorism, those who control it wage wars and pass trade agreements impoverishing the many to benefit the few. We don't have to barter individual goods and products. By voluntarily using our skills and abilities to benefit humanity by structuring service, social and industrial unions to produce, develop and distribute the world's resources we can abolish the overwhelming social ills caused by money: poverty, homelessness, global environmental destruction, waste, illiteracy, war, injustice, crime, slavery, governmental and corporate corruption and fraud, overpopulation and ill health around the world. Only by abolishing money can international cooperation secure genuine world peace, aided by the use of Esperanto, the international language of peace.
Labor unions would be the primary centers coordinating administrative duties and information about availability of goods and services locally and globally, nationally and internationally. They would manage local, state or large cities for primary services such as food, water, shelter/construction, sanitation, education, healthcare, recycling, clothing, power/energy, the environment, labor and for other fields of endeavor, such as entertainment, fire and police protection, space development and transportation. Others could be formed as workers’ needs are determined during the transition away from money.

Government would be part of the Education union and would be responsible for elections of union leaders, preventing the use of force or fraud and for citizen advocacy. Courts would cascade down from the World Court in Den Hague at the Palais du Droits de l’Homme, and any other administrative duties, such as war prevention, would be the responsibility of a restructured, much enhanced United Nations.

Read "Ultimate Poverty, Unlimited Wealth" <antigoldrush.com>

To be fair to Senator Warren, she was NOT advocating "tripling" the minimum wage; she would only commit to supporting the current Obama Administration proposal to raise the minimum to $9.00/hr incrementally, then index it to inflation. The "$22/hr" wage based on productivity projections was simply an example....unfortunately.

Nachos says ".....Man can't seem to help himself with his greed for power and quest for control....", which I think is the essence if our problem. But our friend AliceInWonderland recommended a book on this blog a while back that seems to speak directly to the issues of greed, corruption, power and control (through the ages). I took the time to order it and it's a great read. It's "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. According to Stout, about 4% of the population is sociopathic, which the author defines as basically devoid of conscience. An intelligent sociopath will tend to get to the top of any organization, be it government or corporate, unencumbered as he or she is by the baggage of conscience. So viewed through this lens, labels like "capitalist", "socialist"" and Christian" become meaningless, as the real nastiness is done by relatively few (sociopathic) people in key positions. Dr. Stout also has a great section on good people's tendency to "obey authority" and to extend "the benefit of the doubt", which is also a large part of the problems we see in society. This book isn't just another "pop" psychology book; the author is a heavyweight clinical psychologist. Nor is it massive or unreadable. The author is really gifted at getting straight to the point with good use of illustrations. So I want to second Alice's recommendation of this book and thank her for steering me toward it. If you want a fresh view of what ails human societies everywhere, even if you basically know this stuff, read:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_23/181-5937269-5671556?url=sear...