Another instance of projection from the right. "Let's accuse the left of doing what we do." A common tactic of Fox, Lamebow, and all the rest. They assume, and for many, rightly so, that if both side do it there is an equivalency. Another instance of the right lying to gain political advantage. Maintain the high ground. Don't stoop to their tactics and ALWAYS point out the false equivalency. Tada!!
It doesn't seem unreasonable to ask people for an ID...
You're right...it doesn't sound unreasonable. In actual practice...you want to force someone to have an ID to vote...the government needs to go to every household in that state with a camera/ID printer and give everyone voting age an ID on the spot for free. Doing what Texas is doing is stupid when people would need to travel dozens or hundreds of miles to PAY for an ID to vote. The government can find money to pay corporations bribes to move into their communities...but then finds it impossible to find everyone in every community and give them a free ID on the spot in order to vote. Anything less than this is a Poll Tax and those have been illegal since the mid-60's.
Having an African-American last name...I registered yesterday after 30+ years of non-voting as a member of the Bend Over Party to make sure that Idaho doesn't lose my registration or will keep me from voting if I registered as anything other as BOP.
Being a lifelong Progressive...you can rest assured that anyone who is a fundamentalist leaning Tea Partier or right-wing follower will not be getting my vote. I see anything crazy on the ballot from them...they will be getting my Progressive stamp of approval as well.
I HAVE a right to vote by birth; the problem is proving it. We have no uniform nationwide voting standards. I couldn't "prove" citizenship at this moment -- likely not within a month of gathering documents. Been there done that, for a friend.
A State License to Drive (or utility bill ???) proves nothing, other than a right to operate a motor vehicle -- NOT Citizenship. That said, Voting Rights may be mostly up to states, subject to greater constitutional considerations -- it's a mess.
BEWARE Conservatives, be careful what you wish for -- Do we really want another Universal Federal Database? SS#s tatooed on our arms? That's the only way to track Voter Registrations in our very mobile population.
This like most, is NOT a trivial "Them-Us" issue, except for small minds.
I'm woefully ignorant about this. I keep hearing the basics over and over, but haven't stopped to find out more. All the towns I've lived in have had a big voter list of people that are registered to vote, by street. When you come in, you tell them who you are and after you vote, same. They cross you off the list. But you don't have to show any ID. But still, that entity called by my name at my address, only gets to vote once.
It doesn't seem unreasonable to ask people for an ID, though. I'm open to hear more.
Probably they are distorting the polls. They have lied, cheated and stollen their way to power for at least the last 10 years. What would possibly stop them now? They have no sense of right or wrong, and totally lack any semblance of character. It will be a sad day for this country if they win the Presidency and retain power in the Congress.
A judge that actually is non political and thinks about the rights of citizens in our country. Miracles will never end ! Maybe there is actually a chance democracy will survive in America...
The burden of proof of voter challenges should be on the challenger. There should be "probable cause", there should be safeguards against shot-gun tactics (such as ignoring a source that has "cried wolf" too often, as well as being suspicious of large numbers of challenges) and there should be sanctions against abusers. If there can be punishment for voter registrars, there should be punishment for challengers.
Washington state does have mail in ballots. I just moved here a year ago and I have been mailed ballots and you have the choice of either mailing it back or delivering it in person to your county seat. For me that would be Colfax WA which is 15 miles away so I chose to mail it in. Since a stamp is chaeper than gas.
I don't pretend to underestimate them. They are very crafty and stealthy. I received some hateful e-mails today from a woman who had been one of my best friends in highschool, and that was 53 years ago. She lives in Calif and suggested that maybe I should listen to Rush Limbaugh more? I could not let that one slide and let her know just exactly what I thought of Rush. She's not the only one that apparently is not the person I thought they were. Despite what's factual and true, they will skew truth or outright lie to brainwash people and they will always mold the facts to fit their version of truth and then make people believe it.
I think the crisis in the United States will become ugly no matter who wins the presidental election. Obama would need to do something other than appoint the banksters to his administration if we expect him to make any changes and even that most likely wont help. We share food with the hungry and it is clear we are in free fall yet this is not even part of the national conversation in the election.
We really need to get out in the streets, organize a general strike and start building alternative organizations and projects focused on survival like a massive Food Not Lawns organic gardening movement, Homes Not Jails occupations of the millions of empty homes and Food Not Bombs actions. You may have other ideas around energy, community healthcare and water sanitation projects. Lets face it we can't expect the corporate political parties to transition to a post capitalist system. We are going to have to do this ourselves.
If society gets to the point that we have to store food and fuel due to the breakdown of society, then it is too late for us all...and storing those commodities will be fruitless in the stark fact of reality.
Of course. It's all lies and manipulation that has worked inthe past. If Obama loses the election we have to prevent the Dems from giving in again. More important than politics is our democracy.
If people believe we are safe and freedom of speech without penalty is the American right, why do people hide their faces? Are you afraid that if you speak your thoughts the man will come and take you away or your face will be recorded in a data bank for future prosecution? I do not understand the reason to hide one's identity......
There are some people saying that only a return to the gold standard will save us. bad investments and deficits give rise to red flags for everyone but NO ONE gives us any idea of what the actual real solution would be. How would we live on a gold standard? How would we bring down the deficit if everyone gets a tax cut? How do we get a return on our investments when our currency is not worth anything? Many people are also telling everyone to plan for the worst, stock up on food, buy a solar cooker, sell all your 'paper' investments, install water catchments around your house and on and on. I do believe that effeciency and effectivness in our lives helps everyone to have a better life but how much of a good thing is possible? Where is the reality in all of these competing perspectives? How can we know who to believe? I say believe in yourself. Learn how to do everything yourself. If gas goes higher and you cannot afford to buy gas find a way NOW to get transportation. You know the old saying 'Proper planning prevents poor performance'.
Spain and Greece only have austertity because no one will lend them any more money. Austerity is a condition of there new loan, no austerity no money. This can happen in the US when they are at risk of not paying back the loan to the lender, China and even China is running out of money.
I don't understand government. It is so easy to balance a budget, tax more or spend less. What kind of idiots can't get that right.
The same thing will happen here if the Republicans take the White House and Congress by spreading the same lies over and over until the public believes the lies are actually the truth. Are you living on the same planet as the rest of us are? The Republicans are controlled by the millionaires and billionaires that want to slash all social programs and they want a nice big fat tax cut for themselves! Where has austerity worked so far? It certainly has not helped Spain, Ireland or Greece. Their economies are falling deeper and deeper into a state of recession and a state of economic depression is the next stop. Since England has instituted austerity measures, their economy has shrunk. No jobs mean no tax revenue for the government because the people have lost their ability to move the economy forward and spend to create new jobs. The only winners in the austerity game plan are the big Banksters and Wall Street. The same groups, who have created this mess through their clever schemes to defraud people and governments with their bogus derivative schemes, are the same and only people who will benefit from austerity. Have you read or watched any credible news showing how Wall Street backed by the Bankster Gangsters flew around the World selling their bogus debt swap derivatives and mortgage backed derivatives in the first place. They were helped by the Republicans in the White House (Mr. Bush and his lap dog Cheney) and Congress when Wall St. and the banks were deregulated, giving them the opportunity to rob the World with no consequences for their illegal actions! If the billionaires and millionaires get their huge tax breaks and the Republicans are given the opportunity to destroy the social safety nets and destroy our commons (school system, police, fire departments and jobs all over our nation through austerity measures) for the benefit of the 2 percent on top, you will see blood run in the American streets and cities across our nation. When you take away the hope of the American people and openly state you’re not going to represent the 47 percent of the nation you consider worthless and beggars, riots in the streets will be the end product of their actions. We have witnessed what has happened when the wealthy in our country receive tax breaks, nothing. They have not created jobs here as promised; instead they have invested in the labor forces of poor countries with low wages around the World and pushed for free trade agreements that produce more wealth for the wealthier Americans and no jobs for the middle class of America. Everyone has suffered under the free trade agreements, except for the Multinational Corporations and the Wealthy. Austerity will fatten the wallets of the rich on Wall St. (Banksters) and destroy the lives of the rest of Americans who have to pay the bill for the banks corruption and illegal acts around the World and here in America. The World has not seen the whole devastation and destruction that will occur if America is put under the heels of austerity and tax cuts for the wealthy that control our politicians. Blood will run in the streets if Americans are pushed into a corner with no way out. The wealthy have more to worry about then what they presently perceive. Long live Democracy and long live the Republic.
Unfortunately, I don't think so. The majority of people are simply too complacent, and basically afraid of their government. In many other countries, the opposite is true. Despite the great teachings of MLK, remember that the civil rights struggle was as successful as it was largely due to the threat of violence and turmoil. People were literally willing to put their lives on the line for their freedom.
Not so today. Too many just want to click the remote to the next NFL game, NASCAR race, or reality TV farce.
We have been set-up for a religious-like (faith-based) tribal war. I don't like it; but it's been developing for decades - The sleezy Politics of Division.
How ordinary people can be so diametrically opposed (assuming each other idiots) is distressing. Emotions are high in some camps. I can see isolated confrontations getting out-of-hand. One solution would be an overwhelming victory this November (one party OR the other) -- where for most "the people will have spoken -- Deal with it" -- leaving only the most radical to fuss and fume.
I'm not saying both parties are equal (certainly not, even though both are being bought out). However, If the majority of folks want Corporate rule, sobeit; things just "gotta get worse before better," unless that's too late.
For now, we just gotta keep doing the best we can, and a bit more if possible. I think more and more in the middle are finally "gettin-it." We'll see.
Yes, it could happen here. On the other hand, our GDP and flexbility are far greater than any country in the EU. And on the other hand, deep austerity to balance budgets, particularly in the US, is a very bad idea and will not work here (has never worked here or anywhere for that matter). No doubt the Bilderburgers, the IMF'ers, the Oligarchic members of every dominant $ group everywhere, all revolt in spirit when someone says countries need more flexibility and less theocracy in financial arrangements. However, when any system nakedly allows financial manipulation, control of the media, control of public safety (here I mention the FDA, EPA, NRC, etc.) and unlimited manipulation in favor of war, killing, disease, and death, it is simply time for change in favor of human kind.
We will fight as hard or Harder if the "New Right of Paul Weyrich" gets in as POTUS!! There is no average republican that is willing to give up Democracy for Romney's Party ideology of Theocracy/Oligarchy! The New Right is part/parcel of the Bilderberg Group which is what the European's are fighting - the Austerity Agenda!! 99% of us WILL be revolting should Romney find a way to rig the Election through the Diebold touch screen machines - you can take that bet to Vegas and win!!
No, it's so republicans can steal the election and when they do, they will be able to say, see we told you it was close.
Actually, between the seniors, women, minorities and a thoughtful middle class, Obama should run away with it. But, I wouldn't put anything past the right wing.
Another instance of projection from the right. "Let's accuse the left of doing what we do." A common tactic of Fox, Lamebow, and all the rest. They assume, and for many, rightly so, that if both side do it there is an equivalency. Another instance of the right lying to gain political advantage. Maintain the high ground. Don't stoop to their tactics and ALWAYS point out the false equivalency. Tada!!
It doesn't seem unreasonable to ask people for an ID...
You're right...it doesn't sound unreasonable. In actual practice...you want to force someone to have an ID to vote...the government needs to go to every household in that state with a camera/ID printer and give everyone voting age an ID on the spot for free. Doing what Texas is doing is stupid when people would need to travel dozens or hundreds of miles to PAY for an ID to vote. The government can find money to pay corporations bribes to move into their communities...but then finds it impossible to find everyone in every community and give them a free ID on the spot in order to vote. Anything less than this is a Poll Tax and those have been illegal since the mid-60's.
Having an African-American last name...I registered yesterday after 30+ years of non-voting as a member of the Bend Over Party to make sure that Idaho doesn't lose my registration or will keep me from voting if I registered as anything other as BOP.
Being a lifelong Progressive...you can rest assured that anyone who is a fundamentalist leaning Tea Partier or right-wing follower will not be getting my vote. I see anything crazy on the ballot from them...they will be getting my Progressive stamp of approval as well.
I HAVE a right to vote by birth; the problem is proving it. We have no uniform nationwide voting standards. I couldn't "prove" citizenship at this moment -- likely not within a month of gathering documents. Been there done that, for a friend.
A State License to Drive (or utility bill ???) proves nothing, other than a right to operate a motor vehicle -- NOT Citizenship. That said, Voting Rights may be mostly up to states, subject to greater constitutional considerations -- it's a mess.
BEWARE Conservatives, be careful what you wish for -- Do we really want another Universal Federal Database? SS#s tatooed on our arms? That's the only way to track Voter Registrations in our very mobile population.
This like most, is NOT a trivial "Them-Us" issue, except for small minds.
I'm woefully ignorant about this. I keep hearing the basics over and over, but haven't stopped to find out more. All the towns I've lived in have had a big voter list of people that are registered to vote, by street. When you come in, you tell them who you are and after you vote, same. They cross you off the list. But you don't have to show any ID. But still, that entity called by my name at my address, only gets to vote once.
It doesn't seem unreasonable to ask people for an ID, though. I'm open to hear more.
W.
Probably they are distorting the polls. They have lied, cheated and stollen their way to power for at least the last 10 years. What would possibly stop them now? They have no sense of right or wrong, and totally lack any semblance of character. It will be a sad day for this country if they win the Presidency and retain power in the Congress.
A judge that actually is non political and thinks about the rights of citizens in our country. Miracles will never end ! Maybe there is actually a chance democracy will survive in America...
The burden of proof of voter challenges should be on the challenger. There should be "probable cause", there should be safeguards against shot-gun tactics (such as ignoring a source that has "cried wolf" too often, as well as being suspicious of large numbers of challenges) and there should be sanctions against abusers. If there can be punishment for voter registrars, there should be punishment for challengers.
Thom,
Washington state does have mail in ballots. I just moved here a year ago and I have been mailed ballots and you have the choice of either mailing it back or delivering it in person to your county seat. For me that would be Colfax WA which is 15 miles away so I chose to mail it in. Since a stamp is chaeper than gas.
I don't pretend to underestimate them. They are very crafty and stealthy. I received some hateful e-mails today from a woman who had been one of my best friends in highschool, and that was 53 years ago. She lives in Calif and suggested that maybe I should listen to Rush Limbaugh more? I could not let that one slide and let her know just exactly what I thought of Rush. She's not the only one that apparently is not the person I thought they were. Despite what's factual and true, they will skew truth or outright lie to brainwash people and they will always mold the facts to fit their version of truth and then make people believe it.
We're seeing our future right before our eyes...
I think the crisis in the United States will become ugly no matter who wins the presidental election. Obama would need to do something other than appoint the banksters to his administration if we expect him to make any changes and even that most likely wont help. We share food with the hungry and it is clear we are in free fall yet this is not even part of the national conversation in the election.
We really need to get out in the streets, organize a general strike and start building alternative organizations and projects focused on survival like a massive Food Not Lawns organic gardening movement, Homes Not Jails occupations of the millions of empty homes and Food Not Bombs actions. You may have other ideas around energy, community healthcare and water sanitation projects. Lets face it we can't expect the corporate political parties to transition to a post capitalist system. We are going to have to do this ourselves.
If society gets to the point that we have to store food and fuel due to the breakdown of society, then it is too late for us all...and storing those commodities will be fruitless in the stark fact of reality.
Of course. It's all lies and manipulation that has worked inthe past. If Obama loses the election we have to prevent the Dems from giving in again. More important than politics is our democracy.
If people believe we are safe and freedom of speech without penalty is the American right, why do people hide their faces? Are you afraid that if you speak your thoughts the man will come and take you away or your face will be recorded in a data bank for future prosecution? I do not understand the reason to hide one's identity......
There are some people saying that only a return to the gold standard will save us. bad investments and deficits give rise to red flags for everyone but NO ONE gives us any idea of what the actual real solution would be. How would we live on a gold standard? How would we bring down the deficit if everyone gets a tax cut? How do we get a return on our investments when our currency is not worth anything? Many people are also telling everyone to plan for the worst, stock up on food, buy a solar cooker, sell all your 'paper' investments, install water catchments around your house and on and on. I do believe that effeciency and effectivness in our lives helps everyone to have a better life but how much of a good thing is possible? Where is the reality in all of these competing perspectives? How can we know who to believe? I say believe in yourself. Learn how to do everything yourself. If gas goes higher and you cannot afford to buy gas find a way NOW to get transportation. You know the old saying 'Proper planning prevents poor performance'.
Spain and Greece only have austertity because no one will lend them any more money. Austerity is a condition of there new loan, no austerity no money. This can happen in the US when they are at risk of not paying back the loan to the lender, China and even China is running out of money.
I don't understand government. It is so easy to balance a budget, tax more or spend less. What kind of idiots can't get that right.
webpm has it right.
The same thing will happen here if the Republicans take the White House and Congress by spreading the same lies over and over until the public believes the lies are actually the truth. Are you living on the same planet as the rest of us are? The Republicans are controlled by the millionaires and billionaires that want to slash all social programs and they want a nice big fat tax cut for themselves! Where has austerity worked so far? It certainly has not helped Spain, Ireland or Greece. Their economies are falling deeper and deeper into a state of recession and a state of economic depression is the next stop. Since England has instituted austerity measures, their economy has shrunk. No jobs mean no tax revenue for the government because the people have lost their ability to move the economy forward and spend to create new jobs. The only winners in the austerity game plan are the big Banksters and Wall Street. The same groups, who have created this mess through their clever schemes to defraud people and governments with their bogus derivative schemes, are the same and only people who will benefit from austerity. Have you read or watched any credible news showing how Wall Street backed by the Bankster Gangsters flew around the World selling their bogus debt swap derivatives and mortgage backed derivatives in the first place. They were helped by the Republicans in the White House (Mr. Bush and his lap dog Cheney) and Congress when Wall St. and the banks were deregulated, giving them the opportunity to rob the World with no consequences for their illegal actions! If the billionaires and millionaires get their huge tax breaks and the Republicans are given the opportunity to destroy the social safety nets and destroy our commons (school system, police, fire departments and jobs all over our nation through austerity measures) for the benefit of the 2 percent on top, you will see blood run in the American streets and cities across our nation. When you take away the hope of the American people and openly state you’re not going to represent the 47 percent of the nation you consider worthless and beggars, riots in the streets will be the end product of their actions. We have witnessed what has happened when the wealthy in our country receive tax breaks, nothing. They have not created jobs here as promised; instead they have invested in the labor forces of poor countries with low wages around the World and pushed for free trade agreements that produce more wealth for the wealthier Americans and no jobs for the middle class of America. Everyone has suffered under the free trade agreements, except for the Multinational Corporations and the Wealthy. Austerity will fatten the wallets of the rich on Wall St. (Banksters) and destroy the lives of the rest of Americans who have to pay the bill for the banks corruption and illegal acts around the World and here in America. The World has not seen the whole devastation and destruction that will occur if America is put under the heels of austerity and tax cuts for the wealthy that control our politicians. Blood will run in the streets if Americans are pushed into a corner with no way out. The wealthy have more to worry about then what they presently perceive. Long live Democracy and long live the Republic.
Unfortunately, I don't think so. The majority of people are simply too complacent, and basically afraid of their government. In many other countries, the opposite is true. Despite the great teachings of MLK, remember that the civil rights struggle was as successful as it was largely due to the threat of violence and turmoil. People were literally willing to put their lives on the line for their freedom.
Not so today. Too many just want to click the remote to the next NFL game, NASCAR race, or reality TV farce.
NOTHING WOULD SURPRISE ME.
All options for once are on the table.
We have been set-up for a religious-like (faith-based) tribal war. I don't like it; but it's been developing for decades - The sleezy Politics of Division.
How ordinary people can be so diametrically opposed (assuming each other idiots) is distressing. Emotions are high in some camps. I can see isolated confrontations getting out-of-hand. One solution would be an overwhelming victory this November (one party OR the other) -- where for most "the people will have spoken -- Deal with it" -- leaving only the most radical to fuss and fume.
I'm not saying both parties are equal (certainly not, even though both are being bought out). However, If the majority of folks want Corporate rule, sobeit; things just "gotta get worse before better," unless that's too late.
For now, we just gotta keep doing the best we can, and a bit more if possible. I think more and more in the middle are finally "gettin-it." We'll see.
Yes, it could happen here. On the other hand, our GDP and flexbility are far greater than any country in the EU. And on the other hand, deep austerity to balance budgets, particularly in the US, is a very bad idea and will not work here (has never worked here or anywhere for that matter). No doubt the Bilderburgers, the IMF'ers, the Oligarchic members of every dominant $ group everywhere, all revolt in spirit when someone says countries need more flexibility and less theocracy in financial arrangements. However, when any system nakedly allows financial manipulation, control of the media, control of public safety (here I mention the FDA, EPA, NRC, etc.) and unlimited manipulation in favor of war, killing, disease, and death, it is simply time for change in favor of human kind.
Cooperation + Tolerance+peace
We will fight as hard or Harder if the "New Right of Paul Weyrich" gets in as POTUS!! There is no average republican that is willing to give up Democracy for Romney's Party ideology of Theocracy/Oligarchy! The New Right is part/parcel of the Bilderberg Group which is what the European's are fighting - the Austerity Agenda!! 99% of us WILL be revolting should Romney find a way to rig the Election through the Diebold touch screen machines - you can take that bet to Vegas and win!!
No, it's so republicans can steal the election and when they do, they will be able to say, see we told you it was close.
Actually, between the seniors, women, minorities and a thoughtful middle class, Obama should run away with it. But, I wouldn't put anything past the right wing.
Sure the same thing could happen here. Why do you think conservatives are trying to stop Obama from taking us down the same path as Greece and Spain?
Republicans winning in November will be a step towards the same thing NOT happening here.....