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Voter ID and,
my mothers' attempt to get a State ID card....
She was 87 years old at the time. Shopping at her local supermarket on Oahu in Kailua.
In the store two 35ish local women approaced her and asked her if she could reach
something for them on the top shelf. as soon as she reached up, they grabbed her
purse and ran out of the store. My mother was unsuccesful at trying to obtain an new
ID card for 6 months. I was due to visit her from Seattle, when I arrived she still
had not gotten her ID card, she said she had to go to the other side of
the island to get it. So I obtained a car and drove us to the address which she supplied
for me. When we got to the office and to the front desk I explained to the
woman there that my mother had her ID card stolen and would like a new one.
She asked for my mothers birth certificate, which we had a copy of.
Then she asked if my mother was married. My mother said yes. The lady said she
needed to see the original copy of her wedding certificate. I said that's
impossible. That was 1948 (in Chicago), and the original is long gone.
Then she said it must at least be a certified copy of the original.
I requested a supervisor, there wasn't one.
So we went home with no ID, and spent the rest of the day calling Chicago to
see if we could get that wedding certificate. It wasn't gonna happen
in the short few days that I had for my visit. So I left for Seattle.
Mom still had no ID. Mom decided to call the mayors office.
The mayor within a few days had a car sent to pick up my mother,
he personally met her at the ID office, told that numbskull state employee in no uncertain
words, to give my mother her ID. That's how easy it was for us.
My mother likes to vote regularly, and she was very distraught over
this whole affair.
Forcing ones religious beliefs upon others by gaining political power via the elimination of separation and state church points out just how insecure those seeking to do this are in belief of their own mythologies. Throughout all of history, state sanction of religion has always lead to inhumane horrors of the most extreme sort...... Salem .... 1692.....reality....not mythology!
The Armageddon is actually the beginning. Einstein used an expression that God rolls the dice. For me the chaos of life is Gods fire wall. Anyone can approach to play; our constitution calls it a free will. Though the caveat, in a general metaphor, be careful on which buttons you press. So, one can ascend to the other world quickly, perhaps get picked to carry out Gods work, here or there. Or as a friend of mine says there is nothing out there after life. To which I disagree. But a cripple like Stephen Hawking quotes;
“As we shall see, the concept of time has no meaning before the beginning of the universe. This was first pointed out by St. Augustine. When asked: What did God do before he created the universe? Augustine didn't reply: He was preparing Hell for people who asked such questions.” LOL.
http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_SHawking.htm
So, The Grand Design is without God. But even Hawking admitted the universe is so very fine tuned.
For me, thoughts of the bible reflect on God’s Kingdom, actually loaded with tyranny. One of the most popular bibles, King James, because of the elegant language. Translated the bible during the time of Shakespeare. Don’t forget, Jesus condemned Usury. Yet, America will ask Christians to accept loan legislation awry with details and angels. Likely Luther the fallen Dark Angel. As Romney once said something like “The devils in the details”. His dark angels are backup to bankruptcy. The Church administered justice and torture for centuries. Good reason to separate it from government. Water dunking or stockades use in early America for heresy or treason. Just surrendering the army garrison at West Point to the British was considered treason. Done by a high ranking Gen. Benedict Arnold.
The evil is in the Usury, loan business. America is in this squirrel cage economy where the Federal Reserve can issue money out of thin air to only those connected at the top. However can easily electronically down load a pay pal to my account. An ordinary citizen. Just a voter. And, why not? This wagon wheel effect can work on the low end too. The jack wagons on the top end of the money spectrum are contemplating this. Soon, that time when the numbers line up in an unusual way once in a life time this December the twenty first two thousand and twelve. That is 12,21,12. If one studied numbers like this realize it is unique. All PRIME. Unit value one. Unity. The mathematicians call it the basis system. We can be sure the sun will rise to a new day. A happy day for those ninety nine percenters. They just need to vote.
Thom brings up some very interesting points here as he did on his TV show last night.
Thom sighted Christ saying “Render to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s, as a basis for the separation of church and state. Very rarely do I have issue with what Thom puts forth and I do not completely disagree with what he states here. I just think that his example conflicts to a certain degree with another thing Christ did that Thom often and justifiably sights. It is also one of the few times that Christ showed anger. It was the turning over of the money changers tables and casting them out of his Father’s house.
If the money changers own the government due to their purchasing of our political officials, how can the religious not follow Christ’s example and attempt to turn over their tables. The tables upon which are presently being gathered greater wealth for the wealthy at the expense of what is needed to provide for the security, food and shelter of our less fortunate and exploited brothers and sisters.
We actually need more of the “nuns on the bus”. The separation of church and state may call for restrictions of endorsing an individual candidate, but it does not stop them from doing more from their pulpits to encourage their worshipers to be better informed, vigilant and educated voters.
It does not stop them from preaching that whoever they vote for, or whoever wins the Presidency, the winner should fulfill the intentions of our nation’s Framers and Founders. Their intentions are clearly expressed in the words of Gouverneur Morris. He was renowned among his fellow Federal Convention colleagues. He authored the words of the final version of the Constitution. He made a strong case for the establishment of a strong chief executive. He contended that the chief executive should act as “the guardian of the people, even of the lower classes, against legislative tyranny, against the great and the wealthy who in the course of things will necessarily compose the legislative body.” *
Steve of Occupy Philly
* Taken from the Philadelphia Inquirer article in the series "1787 The Inventing of America"
Mitt Romney says that giving the rich more is good for the economy but the rich do not create jobs, consumers do. Imagine the spread of wealth into the economy if say just 20 families had access to even half of his annual intake and the amount of jobs boosted by that flow. It’s the middle class that boost the economy not the rich. Either the Mitt Romneys believe their own PR which means they are either stupid and given their position and influence is frightening, or they think WE are stupid which is just insulting. The health of the economy is dependent on the flow of wealth and not the hording of it by the 1%
Churches all over the USA are the owners of huge amounts of property and if nothing else, should be taxed for everything except the lot/lots the church is on. However when they enter into the political arena they need to loose their tax exemptions. It is so easy to be brainwashed in a church, by a Priest, Pastor, ETC, ETC, that if they are going to be in that arena the church should be paying taxes on everything, just as I do. Over the years there has been much injustice done by Priests, Pastors, ETC, ETC, like stealing, pedophiles, prostitutes, ETC, ETC,. Before they take up Politics they need to clean up their behavior. hankk MI
Never said do away with government, you need some government in a civil society. I say tame the beast, put it back in its box. the same old talking point of pay their fair share is really lame. What is fair about our tax policy? The upper ten percent wage earners pay 70 percent of income tax collections now. We don't have a tax problem we have a spending problem. allowing the Federal reserve to continue to print money for the government to spend what they don't have will devalue the dollar and drive the price of commodities higher. Hince, the silent killer - inflation. It will hurt the very people the liberals say thforwent to help -- the middle class and the elderly. Now that is cruel.
Hi Thom, after watching your show with Dr. Jill Stein for President running on the Green Party, I decided to voluteer to help her, she sure has great idea's...why not have ALL the candidates on your show telling us what they will do, and how, with what money, and when....good idea huh? Think of the ratings!!! and that would give people a chance to hear and see the candidates viewpoints.
Klentz, I agree - if you could find that line of work, you should grab it.
But thinking clergy and other staff work only one day a week is akin to thinking teachers only work until 3 pm 9 months out of the year; it just ain't so. Most pastors - at least the good ones - with whom I've been associated work 60-80 hours/week and are frequently on call 24/7 for emergency calls. I'm frequently at church 7 days/week - and I'm not even full-time.
And the idea that we pay no taxes on our pay is a misunderstanding; we pay full income and payroll taxes - the same as anyone else.
You may not like churches - and I'd be with you, regarding some - but I don't know of any where the staff works so little and gets tax-free pay. I'd grab that job, too, if it existed.
Obama the hipocrit. He doesn't have any problem continuing wars and sending billions of dollars in military and economic foreign aid to other countries, but he want's to strip US citizens of gun rights and not invest in our schools and job growth back here at home...
And Romney is the central banking system's rep. Voting system is rigged. It's hard to believe that regular low income and middle class conservatives voted this guy in as presidential candidate. A Centralist would've been better.
Bobbler, I absolutely agree with you. I'll sing in your choir any day.
Because the Inquisition still operated (its last burning-at-the-stake was in 1721) and the horrors of the wars of religion were fresh in collective memory, the innate savagery of Christianity and the deadly dangers of state religion were a major part of the Founders' reality.
Understanding both the need to disempower the church by separating it from the state and the need to protect religious believers by prohibiting persecution by government, their constitutional solutions -- the establishment clause and the First Amendment -- were the most effective such measures in human history. Hence they have been under attack by Christian fundamentalists ever since.
Thus the relevant question is not whether we believe in separation of church and state -- I like all rational U.S. citizens surely do -- but how much longer it will be before the lavishly financed, subversively entrenched forces of Christian theocracy prevail.
Funded as they are by the One Percent -- theocracy is the method of social control vastly preferred by capitalism (not the least because it literally grants divine-right rule to chief executive officers and all other bosses) -- the Christians long ago established themselves as the de facto masters of the South, with the Ku Klux Klan (colloquially known as "the Saturday Night Men's Bible Stidy Class") functioning as the equivalent of the Morality Police characteristic of Islam.
Now, their influence expanded by the "faith-based initiatives" started by Bush II and steathily grown to unprecedented magnitude by Obama, the Christians are planning their final assault on secular society -- the real significance of the Alliance and its test cases.
Obviously the proverbial fix is already in, the Christians assured that when their cases reach the Robbers' Court, the majority will rule the U.S. is a Christian nation, not just ending forever the last vestiges of the American experiment in constitutional democracy, but reducing the United States to nothing more than a Christian variant of a zero-tolerance Talibanic dictatorship, complete with public stonings and burnings.
me name is marqus,
and this wath will go on with Mit Romney & Paul Ryan !
one or two months before janaury 6,2013 Mitt Romeny is going to run ad ads about President Obama, and it going to be all over the TV !
1) But mitt Romney is going to tell the American Womens & Mens "All Lies"
2) Mitt Romney said he (Mitt Romney) "do_not care about the 47%
3) Mitt Romney told 60 min. that he (Mitt Romney) goning to win the 2013 !
4) So ?
5) DO_NOT for get November2,2010 when the Republicans told the people "Lies"
6) President Obama came up with the "American Job Act Bill"
7) But the Republicans Congrees VOTE it down ! or did not vote for the Bill !
God Bless the 62 on up & the 98%
Thank you for your time,
Money always talks. Either remove the exemption for the guilty parties, or remove it as a perk for all religions. I have known people who have gotten licenses as pastors in order to avoid paying income taxes. They are thumbing their noses at American citizens, the Constitution and Christianity because they are liars and thieves who can not be trusted to keep an agreement.
The IRS should move on this immediately. These sleazeballs will roll out of the pulpit and back onto the streetcorners where they belong.
No I am not talking about wealth. I am talking about taxable income in one taxable year. It just seems very unfair and the middle and lower income people should be satisfied with that heavy of a lift from a small percentage People like that. Here I Canada it is spread out a lot more even.
Um yeah, people forget we have free speech? Talking about something doesn't cross the line between church and state. For example, the line was crossed long ago when the Roman Catholic church had members in European government and dictating law. That is what part of the law of separation church and state pertains to.
And concerning taxation. If churches get taxed, then all non-profits should get taxed to make things fair. Is that what people want?
Unfortunately many voters latch onto candidates like Johnson based on a single issue without consideration of the overall stands of the candidates on all issues. This is the case with Johnson and the drug war. A broken clock is right twice a day. Johnson is right on that one issue. And President Obama likely personally agrees with him but was unable to end the drug war in his first term. Those who seriously want to do that should not risk a vote that might put Mitt Romney in the White House. With respect to the law in this country, we should think first that whoever is President for the next 4 years will be appointing Supreme Court members. And those who want to end the drug war should be influencing House and Senate elections rather than messing around in Presidential politics.
As for Obama's "pro-war" stand. I don't think he is pro-war. On the contrary he's been turning us around from war to negotiation and has changed the face of the US to the rest of the world, but it will take a long time to undo decades of neocon misdirection. I don't think Johnson has displayed a great understanding of either foreign policy or of the power of the military-industrial complex.
(It's not which of the two duopoly Parties would benefit.)
The People would.
When the top 10% own 70% of the wealth, paying 70% of the Taxes is not unreasonable. This is an ("% vs absolute") argument that has no resoultion, and can be endlesly argued.
Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. Without separation of church and state we would become a Christian version of Iran.
Asking or expecting Members to rein intheir churches won't work -- as organized religion by it's nature creates a superiority attitude in members who feel their way IS The Way, and Society should be run that way. And, ... this has been masterfully exploited by one or both Political parties, depending on local culture, time and place..
I've visited friends in parts of the country (and lived in countries overseas) where "religion" IS the local culture and social-scene. Sunday, Wednesday-night, Friday, Saturday, ... almost all social life revolves around the church (or the Tavern).
I can see in the past where the Church(es) in a small community, were the local meeting-house, whether for Boy Scouts or Political Town Hall Meetings. They also did whatever social-services were needed in the community. Government reasonably said, "better to contribute to local welfare locally using volunteer labor, than create some governmental bureaucracy," and tax-policy encouraged that. Now however, in Cities and States of millions of folks, life is way more complex than those simple models -- with hustlers scamming the systems at every turn. These are no longer "communities."
We got ourselves a mess. And the forces of Corruption are better organized than the People in general. We gotta get a whole lot smarter, learn to overcome decades of persistant propaganda -- not easy.
I'm all for Taxing Churches, prohibiting Politic-ing -- but I know places that it's utterly unthinkable. Such is the power of entrenched religion.
What these fundamentalists don't understand is EVERY member on the church rolls are responsible for any type of IRS fine. Chances are...the IRS wouldn't...but if they wanted to make an example and slap these "churches" down with their members...they would be singing a new song.
Johnnie I have asked everyone on Thom's Blog this question and never get a answer please help me out. The top 10% of Federal tax payers pay 70% of the taxes. Are you saying that isn't "Their fair share".
The article isn't about "taxing people enough," Global. Try reading the article again and see if you can get the point being made about these churches that are supposed to stay out of politics using their untaxed money for political purposes. Also, liberals don't talk about the middle class and the poor being taxed enough, liberals are talking about the fat cats at the top being taxed enough, more like "their fair share" that they haven't paid in fifty years. As far as any "whining" here, you're more like the whiner that doesn't want fair taxes being paid by the wealthy or you'll whine about it.
As a Canadian I love the fact that the US has kept there personal taxes low there. Doing that has created the highest standard of living in the world. We are taxed to death here and our standard of living is getting lower and lower. We are so lucky to have so many natural resources to subsidize the over spending.
The top 10% of Americans pay 70% of the federal bills how much more is fair?
One great thing here is we seperate church from state 100%. It has no place in any Government.
If non for profit organizations including unions want to be tax exempt they should have to fully disclose publiicly where there money goes.