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Bush commuted Scooter Libby's sentence so that he would not have to go to prison at all. Can't Obama commute Davis' sentence to life? I don't think it has to be an outright release. Though he will be pillaried by the Republicans for doing so, that would happen no matter what he did. He should take this guy off the death watch, leaving him in prison and let the facts be better fleshed out.
Chuck
Perhaps the best solution to all of our abject economic woes would be to draft a Grand Bargain along the lines of what Thomas Freidman argued yesterday and what Thom talked about regarding incentivizing the health care system in terms of rewards versus services.
Here's what I'm thinking. Give the Republicans everything they want. You say you want a 0% Capital Gains Tax? Take it. You say you want to privatize Medicare? Do it. However, if our health care system crashes, if the poverty rate rises, if our economy fails to recover by 2015, then the federal government reserves the right to seize corporate profits and apply a 100% tax over $2,000,000 on individuals to fix what Conservatives argued to be the obvious solution to our economic problems.
I'm curious if Mitt Romney and the Koch brothers would be willing to put their fortunes on the line for the empty rhetoric they have been spewing as of late. I seriously doubt even lunatics like Michelle Bachman would consider such a plan as it actually implies risk on everyone's behalf.
At the bottom of this whole debate, that's the key issue. Risk. The Republicans are neglecting to assume any responsibility or risk in making us a more stable and prosperous nation. Their sense of history and knowledge of simple math and economics is Orwellian at best. Where is Howard Beale when you need him?
Sailorman, you have brought up a viable and proficient point. The health system in most countries are for profits alone and this is why some governments refuse to pay the health bill out of the people's national and natural resources. Many governments are now also trying to shut down holistic stores who sell alternative natural medicines for the people because pharmaceutical conglomerates would lose a mint if the people were to get well. Preventive medicines are a stockbroker's nightmare and the death rate for a nation based on sale and application of deadly medicines is a boon for the conglomerates and their middlemen.
How about you starting up a blog concerning this issue of the scam of the health system resulting in premeditated murder by those who know exactly what they are doing to the people?
Troy Davis is of course one out of a million this wicked death sentence is happening to and we know that. But Thom Hartmann has asked of us all one question, and that is: "Do you think he (Troy Davis) will or should be put to death?"
We on this forum work in the Oneness of application of petitions as well as other means I am sure. This execution is immediate and therefore immediate action need be taken.
This is only one case among many as I have said before, but if we can save even one innocent person then we have accomplished more in a day than most people do in a year.
45,000 people are put to death by OUR health insurance system each year because they don't have health insurance. These people die for profit, money, not because they have been convicted (how ever unjustly) of a crime. How about giving them 1 x 45,000 the hype that Troy Davis is getting?
Sometimes I wonder who is more dangerous the republicans or the radical bombers.
Please don't give up -- sign the following last minute pleas to Georgia's Attorney General to vacate the Death warrant on Mr. Davis -- sign here and urgently circulate this new petition -- this has been generated after the Parole Board's decision. And please call the White House and ask the President to intervene.....
Petition Georgia's Attorney General to Save Troy Davis here.
No matter where you stand on the President right now, the alternative is certainly horrific to contemplate. The GOP must not win. But we all must go one step farther:
If you comment on blogs, and that's all you do, that's nice, but there are a hundred thousand people commenting on blogs -we don't need more of this. And the paid trolls bait us with their BS, which is carefully engineered to tie up our time and keep us off our message (that, incidently, is why Usel, or whoever he is, posts in a place he knows he'll never get converts).
If you do nothing to actually help elect non-Republicans then, in a neglectful sort of way, you are part of the problem. As with any volunteer organization, the Democratic party or wonderful independent Senators like Bernie Sanders rely on a surprisingly small number of volunteers. To give you and idea, my congressional district, one of the most active in the nation, has about a million people -300 of which are active year round -maybe 500 (including individual candidate vols) when the election is in it's last months. (Remember that the next time you complain about "the party" -the party is whoever shows up!).
I won't assume everyone here only bloviates, but if you are a commenter and not a volunteer then you need to get off your freakin' keester. You can obviously form persuasive ideas and communicate them; you are the people who can make a difference with voters -use your talent where it will be far more effective!
It's class warfare -and more. It's a wholesale taking apart of our nation as we know it. Warrior or armchair quarterback -you choose.
Republicans cheered for Perry regarding his Texas death penalty record, so it's no surprise to me a red state like Georgia wants to join the innocent man put to death club. Should Troy Davis be put to death?....of course not!
Can't help but think about James Oglethorpe and his humanitarian philosophy whenever I think about Georgia, wonder what he would say about all this?
Enough of the peaceful stuff. This country has gone down the tubes, when no court in the land can stop a questionable execution from going forward. This is precisely why I'm not in law enforcement anymore after 12 yrs of service. It's time to star sharpening the tools and stocking up. We're gonna need them.
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Could Troy Davis' possible tragedy be similar to an event that precipitated what happened in Tunisia?
Mohamed Bouazizi (the street vendor) -- his death became a catalyst for inciting demonstrations throughout Tunisia in protest of social and political issues in the country.
Surely the political juice of many Nobel Laureates, including the former governor of Georgia Jimmy Carter, could jump out in front of the movement that has already formed to support human rights and stand up for social justice.
The only way those in power will adhere to the will of the people is through a National Strike. Until the revenue streams dry up for repressive government institutions (Georgia's state government/US federal government) or their corporate masters, they have no incentive to listen to the will of the people. This National Strike should have a list of demands that which can only be satisfied with a completely new constitution.
Can you think of ways to effectively pull off a National Strike?
Can you think of any principles you'd like to put into a new constitution?
NS_NC USA
All this personal back and forth fighting is just what the American "People" do not need, they want constructive SOLUTIONS! Good ideas and solutions come from INTELLIGENT conversation. Why not spend your time going after the REAL issues that negatively effect the (98%) of "Us", then maybe "We" ALL will survive this "Plutocracy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy) which is in control of "Our" government and "Our" lives.
The purpose of a "Government of the People, by the People, and for the People", IS JUST THAT!
Dan Williams
Founder - www.thebridgetonowhere.org
"Assume Nothing! Question Everything!"
Imunding, you are a thinking man with good solid questions.
When the Judge, jury, procecuter, governor, or warden and all others of those responsible for the man's execution not serve their full sentence for capital murder in this lifestream, then when they leave this earth following their physical death they will come to stand before the Akashic council of enlightened and evolved beings who are human just as we are. Together they and the Akashic council will then review their deeds and be advised upon the lessons they must learn and undergo upon their next series of incarnations.
In addition to learning their next series of lessons, these ones who felt to convict an innocent man will also need to pay a huge karmic debt to the man. So whenever a person has seemed to leave this world without paying for his or her own sins, shall we say, that person will need to face the "debt" owed in the next series of lessons upon the next incarnation, either back upon this world, or upon another world of same or lesser evolved human beings.
If this man is put to death tomorrow, because clemency was denied, then those who kept quiet all those years before confessing (just in time they hope) will undoubtedly have a lesser debt to pay and fewer lessons to relearn upon the next series of lifestreams.
But those who continue to deliberately ignore the man's innocence and have a larger hand in putting him to death, they would certainly be done a favor if they were sentenced to jail for first degree murder. For if that does not become the case then their debt to the man and the series of lessons to be relearned upon the next lifestream will be indeed a far cry from paradise or anything remotely involving a higher standard of living.
The people for the most part on this forum are working in the Oneness and if all humankind would care as much for their brothers and sisters regardless of the colour of their skin or race and live by Univerfsal understanding and principle as each of you do today, then the shackles of all the innocent would fall by the wayside in one fell swoop.
.
Philip, I agree completely. As a Quaker, I believe there is "something of God" in everyone (even Republicans!). My state, Wisconsin, does not have the death penalty, although our awful governor, Scott Walker, and his henchment would no doubt be in favor of it. Maybe that isn't on the agenda of ALEC yet, so they haven't gotten around to trying to push that on us. It's probably just a matter of time. But never fear! We are going to recall Scott Walker in just a few short months.
Is there not a tradition for having parents be accountable for the actions of the children when their children are destructive to public property in any way: I think it is the parents who are ultimately held responsible for the actions of those children.
In this same vein, It seems that when something so serious as the consideration of taking a life is not being considered in a reasonable way, something similar needs to be done. These who are responsible for taking action to end or save a life need to be held accountable for those actions. It'd be nice if this happened before the life was taken rather than afterwards, in my opinion. If they knew there could be personal consequences, maybe they would not be so quick to act. Maybe they would be more willing to listen and not hold fast to their own preconceived/misconceived notions.
Something seems very wrong here. It seems some kind of intervention should take plae.
Excellent logic, Imunding!
I am about ready to explode over this blatant injustice, about to be perpetrated upon this innocent man!
When Troy Davis is dead tomorrow, we might as well conclude he was murdered by the executioner, the judges or jurors, many lawyers, and the "witnesses" who bore false testimony against him.
He is being sacrificed to save the reputation of all those corrupt officials in the "justice(?)" system who refused to re-open the case for fear of "embarrassment" and face-saving, hopefully being able to say: "Well, someone paid for this crime to satisfy the survivors' lust for revenge. Let's close the case and leave it at that!"
For heaven's sake, STOP!! YOU ARE ABOUT TO KILL AN INNOCENT MAN, AND I SWEAR, THE BLOOD OF TROY DAVIS WILL BE ON YOUR HANDS!!
You corrupt ones, who had the power to stop this man from being murdered, are infested with the notion that just anyone off the street fits the bill to pay for the crime of a white man, particularly if the scapegoat seized is black! HELL WILL FREEZE OVER BEFORE YOU BUNCH OF DEMONIC THUGS WILL GET AWAY WITH THIS ONE!!
Look, you may think the innocent "Jesus" covers for our "sins", and the innocent Troy Davis might as well die like the innocent "Jesus", and be that much better off for it! But I'll tell you this much: NEITHER OF THE TWO HAVE GIVEN THEIR CONSENT TO BECOME SACRIFICED FOR THE SINS OF OTHERS!
Troy is still alive at this hour. So why not just ask him whether he agrees that his blood should flow so that the killer of the policeman can say: I have now seen the Day of my Redeption: TROY DAVIS HAS DIED FOR MY SIN!
Revolting!!
Title: THE END OF INNOCENCE? FEDERAL HABEAS
CORPUS LAW AFTER IN RE DAVIS
http://digitalarchive.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=g...
David, I just got around to reading last nights final posts, well said, good job!
Pretty amazing that this guy can't get a retrial..............I am not surprised considering it is in the South........
The death penalty is obviously about retribution rather than rehabilitation.
If an innocent person is executed what should be the the retribution?
Should we kill the judge, the jury, the governor, the warden? Retribution requires that someone should die. Who?
If the prosecuter witheld evidence should he die or at least be charged with murder?
We have to vote our way out of this nightmare...that's realistic hope....I try to spread the word whenever I get the chance.... "do not vote republican unless you have a few billion stashed somewhere"...keep it simple like that...trust me people will listen!
Are you off your medication David? I really wish I could help you. Maybe you could go back into therapy. All the best to you, I hope you get well. By the way David, I'm a high school teacher.
Ever since the beginning of time when the world was taken over by wicked ones, a scapegoat was created, an innocent one who "takes on the sins of another." This still occurs world wide, beginning with religions. Religions wish people to forget about cause and effect belonging to no one other than themselves.. No individual should ask of another to pay in any way for his or her mistakes or deliberate acts of wickedness, acts done consciously without respect of another. How utterly selfish can people be?!
Wars are manipulated the same way. These warmongers converse among themselves saying: "We want their national wealth including their lands and the people we hire for pennies a day. We will bomb bomb them, make them sacrifical lambs for our brutality to achieve our objectives. And who can stop us anyway? We make the innocent pay for our religious and political agenda!"
It is to be considered that in this case among many, the man in question must be the sacrificial lamb standing in place of another in order for the courts and the policies of the government to continue in their protection of a friend of a friend of the High Court of Justice in the land - and this may well go straight to the top.
Protecting all those who falsely accused, tried and sentenced this innocent man is a cruel game the courts of all lands engage themselves in in order to hide the stain of blood on their own hands.
There is hardly a court standing now or at any time in history which did not engage in atrocities against an innocence.
It has always been that way: "Make someone pay - anyone!"
But! When it comes to Universal cause and effect, those who wish another to pay for their own sins or crimes will find when they reincarnate they will take the place of those whom they abused and learn their lesson well.
Stories of "sacrificial lambs" are always made up to the detriment of the innocents ones such as this man who was denied clemency, and to the detriment of the religionists who refuse to deal with their own sins or mistakes therein holding up their own progress and that progress of another in their combined life journey throughout the Universal journeys.
Ok, "MaryMary," (or whatever your real name is), you say that you believe in what you do. And I think that is at least theoretically possible. But allow me to let you in on the dirty little secret that the republican party hides: when a republican needs money or any kind of service from the government, all of that Ayn Rand bullcrap goes flying out the window, and it's, "Give me this," "Give me that," and "Give me the other thing," "You have to help me," "You have to let me drive on the roads that I refuse to pay taxes for, and let me use the courts that I refuse to pay taxes to support." And on and on. So even if you believe in what you're doing, it's hypocrisy, because if you had no place to live, no food, or were dying of some illness or accident, you would be the first one in line for "government handouts." And if and when that happens to you- though I hope it doesn't- I wonder, how will you feel when your boss and your former friends in the republican party say, "No government handouts for you."
Boy, talk about loyalty; I am impressed. If I thought my boss would treat me that way, I would quit. But you stay on. I'm sure that means a lot to your boss...
All those republicans who control Wall Street and the banks that are "too big to fail-" what did they do after they had driven their republican corporations into a ditch and stolen all the money? Why, they said, "Big government, you have to give us a trillion dollars, you have to help us out, we can't do it on our own, we don't believe in self-determinism, we don't believe in up by your bootstraps, we're not republicans today, you have to give us so much money that it will take generations to repay it!" In other words, they're hypocrites. Liars. Con men. And con women. Frauds. Pretenders. Fakes. And funny thing: the instant they got that money, they turned back into republicans and refused to share any of that bailout money with anyone else; and they refused to give loans to people who desperately needed loans. And you know why those people desperately needed loans? Because the republicans stole their money, offshored their jobs, and stole their houses. But the republicans said, "Oh no, we can't give you loans, because you have, through your own irresponsibility, ruined your lives, so just sit back and enjoy being hungry and sleeping in alleys." Hypocrites. Thieves. Frauds. Liars.