You lost it Thom

Thom, you are highly intelligent, well spoken, and very knowledgeable. What you don't have is a booming voice that can drown out others, so stop trying. You are a passionate advocate for the progressive movement but this time your passion carried you away.

I tried to listen to what Seton was saying by attempting to block out your voice. I did the same when trying to hear you. All that I could tell is that you both repeated the same talking points several times. This was a most unproductive exchange.

You are the best spokesman the Progressives have. The Right is largely intellectually bankrupt. Let them spin their yarns then use facts and logic to rebut them. The American People need to be educated and excessive passion gets in the way.

I have a couple of suggestions:

1) Knowledgeable and fact based debates with the Right is more important now than ever. Please keep having them. I would like to see debates a larger part of your show. Maybe you could cover fewer topics but cover them in more depth.

2) Insist on taking turns in your debates. Most of the debates I have seen on your show seem to devolve into shouting matches. This is annoying and uninformative. Here is a possible solution:
Decide how much time you want to devote to a debate.
Use a chess clock to control who talks, each side gets 1/2 of the time.
After you make your point press the button for their side, their time then starts.
When a side runs out of time their mic(s) could be turned off.
Allow about 20 sec at the end for each side to summarize their points.

I know it will be hard to control your self when the other side makes an egregious statement but you need to. Write down your rebuttals as the other side speaks, just like in a "real" debate. If you are sure you will have enough time to make your rebuttal, the need to interrupt the other side would disappear.

You need to figure out what your goal is. Is it to inform people or to provide them with a spectacle?

Marko.

Banksters should be made to give back what they've frankly stolen for a real redistribution of wealth..

To those who have not been listening to the Neo-conservative message for the last 50-40 Years - The Republican Party is a party that seeks Complete Control of our society at all costs! It is Dictatorial, Oppressive and Fascist. They have been and are funded by Billionaires, Big Banks and multi-national conglomerates to create Think Tanks from which zealots plot to gain complete and total control of our society. They hate Workers, Unions, collective bargaining, abortionists, blacks, feminists, gays, muslims, you name it they hate it!

You have been living under a rock if you have not seen this coming. In ALL the States where there are now newly, or not so new, elected Repub governors, this is their game plan - DESTROY the UNIONS! Use every means to do so. Why? Simple. Their paymasters, the Plutocrats and the Oligarchs (New Fascists), want them to. Cheap labor, no more regulations, no more minimum wage, a complete unfettered control of all aspects of our society and the industrial base.

Where have the American Workers (for that matter ALL Americans) been for the last 40 Years? The Republicans have literally Placed a big Banner in the Sky and have shouted from the Roof Tops - DESTROY THE UNIONS and collective bargaining and everything democratic (Liberal). They have been saying this now for over 40 Years!

The Republican Party and their Paymasters are the New Fascists.

Fascism is defined as: "A governmental system led by a dictator (or Oligarchy) having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism."

This is what is happening in our country now. Anyone denying this is totally ill-informed. The Republican Party is no longer the party of Lincoln and Eisenhower - it is now a party being controlled by multi-national corporations and Billionaires. And if, you, Middle America, are not afraid, you best educate yourself very quickly. This is happening, and it is happening very fast. ‘Citizens United’ is the instrument that will destroy this country if we, as a Democratic Free People, do not repeal or end this offensive and freedom killing supreme court decision!

One Percent of the US Population controls something like 35 percent of the wealth in this country. Two Percent controls 70-80 percent! So 4 million plutocrats control 80 per cent of the wealth, while 296 Million people have to do with 20 per cent! And this is still NOT ENOUGH for the Plutocrats!

America, this is still a Democracy. What is being played out in Madison Wisconsin this week should be a blue print for ALL Americans and ALL states to emulate? If we let the new Fascists win we are, as a free people, in pretty deep kim-shee!

“Ever heard of the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968? How many did the National Guard or Chicago police shoot that day? And it is kind of silly of you to demand any kind of "proof".”

This is A non-sequiter! 1968? So, in 2011, Obama and Hillary are going to call on the National Guard because in 1968 the National Guard was called?

You didn't hit a nerve - you didn't hit anything!

Just a bunch of nonsense from someone who should study a bit more Logic...oops sorry, that word is not in your lexicon anyway.

And America is spelled AMERICA not Amerika! You also never voted for Hillary as she never ran for President except in a primary. And I sincerely doubt you even voted for Obama. And I also believe you are a Repub Plant and A Palin fanatic. But then I need, what is it that you say YOU don't need...PROOF! But then again, if YOU don't need PROOF for anything, why should I?

Actually, like Fox Noise, who, by the way, NEVER, EVER needs any proof at all for anything and who just make stuff up on the fly, I really think you are an Al Qaeda sympathizer spreading lies! Proof – 'who needs proof for something that's going to happen'! Your words, not mine.

In the greater context of trying to inform those who do not understand that they are voting against their own interests, there is one strategy that I believe will work best. Tell them they are being duped. Nobody likes to feel that they do not understand a particular issue, or are somehow less intelligent, or are being manipulated. People w/ open minds (not much hope for those who have closed theirs) want the truth - give it to them. They are being duped. This should be a rallying cry for the progressive movement - "America, you are being duped!"

REPUBLICAN POLICIES MIRROR SOCIAL DARWINISM

Social Darwinism is a belief, popular in the late Victorian era in England, America, and elsewhere, which states that the strongest or fittest should survive and flourish in society, while the weak and unfit should be allowed to die. The theory was chiefly expounded by Herbert Spencer (1820-1903), whose ethical philosophies always held an elitist view and later received a boost from the application of Darwinian ideas such as adaptation and natural selection.

According to Darwin's evolutionary theory, nature is a "kill-or-be-killed" system. Those that cannot keep up are either left behind or cut off. The strong survive, and those best suited to survival will out-live the weak.

The seeds of Social Darwinism were actually planted before the publication of Darwin's "The Origin of Species" (though of course the name didn't originate until after). Herbert Spencer, the father of Social Darwinism as an ethical theory, was thinking in terms of elitist, "might makes right" sorts of views long before Darwin published his theory. The concept of adaptation allowed Spencer to claim that the rich and powerful were better adapted to the social and economic climate of the time, and the concept of natural selection allowed him to argue that it was natural, normal, and proper for the strong to thrive at the expense of the weak. Whether it be humans, races, or the state, Spencer's thoughts were clear: "If they are sufficiently complete to live, they do live, and it is well they should live. If they are not sufficiently complete to live, they die, and it is best they die." In its simplest form, Social Darwinism follows the theory of "the strong survive," even in human issues. It is the application of the theory of natural selection to social, political, and economic issues. According to Social Darwinism, those with economic, physical, and technological strength flourish and those without are destined for extinction. This theory was used to promote the idea that the white European race was superior to others, and therefore, destined to rule over them.

Social Darwinism was used to justify numerous exploits which we classify as of dubious moral value today. Colonialism was seen as natural and inevitable; people saw natives as being weaker and more unfit to survive, and therefore felt justified in seizing land and resources. Finally, it gave the ethical nod to brutal colonial governments who used oppressive tactics against their subjects.

At the time that Spencer began to promote Social Darwinism, the technology, economy, and government of the "White European" was advanced in comparison to that of other cultures. Looking at this apparent advantage, as well as the economic and military structures, some argued that natural selection was playing out, and that the race more suited to survival was winning. Some even extended this philosophy into a micro-economic issue, claiming that social welfare programs that helped the poor and disadvantaged were contrary to nature itself. Those who reject any and all forms of charity or governmental welfare often use arguments rooted in Social Darwinism.

Social Darwinism has been used to justify eugenics programs aimed at weeding "undesirable" genes from the population; such programs were sometimes accompanied by sterilization laws directed against "unfit" individuals. The American eugenics movement was relatively popular between about 1910-1930, during which 24 states passed sterilization laws and Congress passed a law restricting immigration from certain areas deemed to be unfit. Social Darwinist ideas, though in different forms, were also applied by the Nazi party in Germany to justify their eugenics programs. With the development of the notion of eugenics — not only could you prevail over the unfit by making war on them, but you could improve the breed by applying "enlightened" notions of selection and genetics.

At its worst, the implications of Social Darwinism were used as scientific justification for the Holocaust. The Nazis claimed that the murder of Jews in World War II was an example of cleaning out inferior genetics. This view embraced the assumption that the strong were superior, and thus ordained to prevail. Social Darwinism applied to military action as well; the argument went that the strongest military would win, and would therefore be the most fit. Casualties on the losing side, of course, were written off as the natural result of their unfit status. Thus, if two countries were to make war on each other, the victor was biologically superior to the loser. It was therefore right and proper for that victor to subjugate or even eliminate the inferior opponent. Not only was survival of the fittest natural, but it was also morally correct. Indeed, some extreme Social Darwinists argued that it was morally incorrect to assist those weaker than oneself, since that would be promoting the survival and possible reproduction of someone who was fundamentally unfit.

A second way pseudo-evolutionary concepts were applied to human interaction was in the development of cut-throat capitalism in the United States. Here the ideology was that the cream naturally rose to the top; the successful made a lot of money simply because they were superior to the unsuccessful. Those who found themselves in poverty were poor because they were intrinsically inferior. It provided a justification for the more exploitative forms of capitalism in which workers were paid sometimes pennies a day for long hours of backbreaking labor. Social Darwinism also justified big business' refusal to acknowledge labor unions and similar organizations, and implied that the rich need not donate money to the poor or less fortunate, since such people were less fit anyway. This political philosophy resisted suggestions like universal education, welfare, minimum wage; in short, anything which interfered with the business of the "superior" ascending to the top of the heap and squashing the unfit beneath their expensive shoes.

http://www.allaboutscience.org/what-is-social-darwinism-faq.htmhttp://library.thinkquest.org/C004367/eh4.shtmlhttp://stmarys.ca/~wmills/course203/8Racism.html

Thom when you talk about Europe don't forget about free university education (until very recently). Housing, education,healthcare are basic human rights in Europe.

Still is only a nominal fee for University education in most of Europe.

Thom got it wrong when he said, Thimothy McVeigh was an atheist. It is easy to understand with all the Christian blogs and websites pushing McVeigh into the atheist camp. But he said that he believed in a creator somewhere in the background of all this. A perfect clock maker who has left the world up to us. Today that is called Deism. His statement was ..."my religion is science." It is this snippet of a longer statement that Christians (or the Right) have used to descibe Mcveigh as an atheist - furthering their attack on people who believe that you can be ..."Good without God."

The last minister Mcveigh documented to have seen before the bombing was the minister at Elohim CIty. - part of the Christian Identity Movemement. ---a truely scary bunch

I hope Thom corrects his error on this.

I think the question was "what do you think will happen" NOT what should happen. Unfortunately, what WILL happen is probably just what we don't want to happen - the poor will continue to get hammered by the rich. If you own the ball, the field, the players and you make your own rules... well you get the picture!

Veterans Village B-2

4401 Teller Street

Wheat Ridge CO 80033-3448

303 238 1456

www.veteranschamberofcommerce.org

Please Dear Friends

The Billions Prosperity Gospel Cathoic Church has in reserves; we must have legislation that requires them to file a Form 9980 like every other secular nonprofit that is not paying taxes please

The War Widows

mmurphy@veteranschamberofcomemrce.org

Mary Murphy, former VA/Prison Chaplain/Marshal Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals

Definately raise taxes on the wealthy, and corporations,they all have had a free ride for the past 30 years, and the poor and working people paid the price,and will be for years to come, if something isnt done about it.