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Several weeks ago, NPR, discussed the NY mosque and then that went into a discussion of Sharia law. A caller from MI, and I think it was Flint, said that his community has recognized Sharia law because of the number of muslims living there. He went on to say that when a town is made up predominately of muslims, they will demand that Sharia law be adopted as it was in Flint. I thought that the separation of church and state would find this unconstitutional but he has made the opposite arguement. If the majority votes on it, then it will become law. This really made me worried and not just because of muslims but because of any religion that thinks that they can change the laws of government for the laws of religion. I am Catholic, I like being Catholic but I do not want my church telling me how to run my government.
I'm sure you intended no disrespect to Pastafarians but it's the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Convert here: http://www.venganza.org/
they will dissolve from the peoples voices in government, into representatives of the largest corporations able to buy them. they themselves will become rich in the process, in exchange for selling a very tiny part of their soul/conscience, by passing just a couple of corrupt or totalitarian type laws each, all of which will total up to a cohesive, nation-wide fascist agenda, which MOST of them, in lower standing, being as short sighted, power hungry and stupid as they are, will not even realize what is being perpetrated upon their once "great" nation and selves by the "most high" bankers and corporate monarchs- who will have their most trusted lackeys serve them in the highest offices such as the presidency - et al., these types that have always sullied their hands and hearts with blood and suffering throughout the history of world power on behalf of their kings, emperors, popes, and lords will be privy to truths they might be entrusted to each according to his/her loyalty and/or belief in the cause. yes. ALL OF THIS. As will the democrats succumb to the same fate, just as their counter-parts in the republican in the republican party, will all be eclipsed by the billions and trillions of dollars given in support of their sponsored "opponents". Goodbye America, good U.S. of A. I will fight for you if I can in any way effective. But till that day, i may be else where if I become able.
Thom, I don't think McVeigh really works in this situation. He may have been a confirmed catholic, but he seemed to claim he was agnostic. Additionally, he never claimed a religious inspiration for his crimes.
Muslims are a bit different. 9/11 was not an act of religion, but it is very easy to misconstrue it that way since the criminals that day have used religion to justify their crimes. But they use their religion to justify everything they do.
I think the Oklahoma law is rather cowardly and fearful. But at the same time, if those people are so fearful that they need that ridiculous law to feel safe, then let them have it.
@FreeMarketeer: "For crying out loud, you can't have a discussion with an atheist for 30 seconds without them bringing up the Crusades, or the IRA, or how much death Christians have supposedly caused."
It's really not clear why you brought atheism into this discussion. But if you're actually arguing that Christians have never committed murder in the name of Christ, then you have already lost. But rather than getting into that discussion, let's just agree that the problem is fundamentalism whether it be the indoctrination of children or murdering of abortion doctors from Christian fundamentalism or the suicide bombing, beheading and revenge killing of Islamic fundamentalism.
Senator elect Rand Paul said.
“there are no rich. There are no middle class, There are no poor. We all either work for rich people or we sell stuff to rich people. So just punishing rich people is as bad for the economy as punishing anyone”.
This fine gentleman has no idea what he’s talking about. The first of his statement said “there is no rich” then he said,
“We all either work for rich people or sell stuff to rich people.”
Sounds like Rand Paul and the billionaires like the Koch brother's, are they taking us to a fascist government, I believe so. Many of these conservatives don’t realize that we are all individuals working in a community, we are not individuals in a community. All we have is each other, and when someone is down and out we should not kick him hard, but try to lift them up and out of their despair. Do we not teach this in our churches, synagogues and other religious establishments? So why not stop being hypocritical in practice what we preach.
Rand Paul last part of the statement was.
“So just punishing rich people is as bad for the economy as punishing anyone”.
How can you punish the rich, they live beyond Paradise, while most Americans live in a condition compared to the rest of the world in paradise or slightly below paradise. You cannot punish the rich by raising their taxes by a small percentage. Most Americans do not realize that they pay a higher percentage in taxes than the rich pay percentage in taxes. I really believe that Rand Paul is in a world of his own and do not have enough life experience to realize that we all live in a community and we are not individuals living in a community.
We can fix this March towards fascism with the 28th amendment to the Constitution, that states that corporations are not people, but the individual person will be considered as people. After all the Constitution starts out as we the people, not we the corporations.
Government & Religion
The danger of Islam in the rest of the world is that it is government and religion in one. When you mix any religion or ideology with government you will get tyranny. If you do not have a faith then you have an ideology or at least principles… never the less you mix any of these ideas with government you will get tyranny. The founders of this nation saw government as a necessary "evil" and sought to contain it with the constitution because of these self-evident truths… government must remain "amoral". No bodies faith or ideology is capable of governing a nation… only the individual. History proves that point… because here we sit in this nation facing the edge of a dark abyss of debt… because we thought we could do it differently. I do not wish to impose my faith or ideology on anyone nor should they do the same, but… we can all agree, just like they did in the founding of this nation that we are created equal and endowed with inalienable rights even if the President won’t use the word "Creator." All people yearn to breathe free. All we can do is live under a government that creates and defines the boundaries necessary to deal with the growth of technology and protect one’s rights from the transgressions of another. The historians and sociologist of the past 100 plus years have deceived, construed and purposely left out the original intent of this nations creation because they lack virtue and value the public purse. They thought the power of their minds could do better! They all speak of rational thought and theories … which when presented to the masses has the adherence of a sack of popcorn in the face of a class 5 hurricane! All is vanity! Any body who stands up and swings their ideology with the force of law is a tyrant! We in this country all need to reflect upon the past and pick-up the original intent of this nation and become virtuous! It is what made us exceptional!
Sharia law has invaded parts of Europe!!! Don't you find it pruned to lay the grown work in law to deal with this before it appears on your doorstep? You’re an herbalist Thom! Do you not take herbs to fight of illness before you get sick???
Your common sense is very selective.
What really pisses me off is that we can live in a better world where justice and peace reign but we need to practice the Golden Rule on a daily basis and we need to embrace the Eleventh Commandment in our lives.
Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you!
http://www.genuinejustice.com/
We are screwed again!!!
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Hyperinflation-gets-anothe-by-Laura-Roberts-101103-598.html
We must live and die for the Golden Rule.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Why-Die-for-War-and-Not-th-by-Sylvia-Clute-101104-68.html
Walking him like a dog!!!
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ed-Schultz-Obama-Stands-P-by-Rob-Kall-101104-295.html
We are living in a fascist nation.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/An-Epidemic-of-Police-Brut-by-Linn-Washington-J-101104-98.html
I believe the Holy Bible reveals to us that our government MUST INTERVENE where Predatory Capitalism reigns.
A Prayer for Social Justice
God, we pray that Your Spirit may rule over all things.
May Your Spirit rule over kings and presidents
over prime ministers and generals
over CEOs and party bosses
over the legislature and over the bureaucrats
over all citizens.
May Your Spirit guide us on the way of peace
on the way of honest dialogue
on the way of reconciliation between peoples
on the way of disarmament and justice
on the way of freedom and life for all.
May Your Spirit lead us on the journey of
blessings shared with all,
on the journey of educational opportunity for all our children
on the adventure of research and study that helps
all men and women
on the road to meaningful work for all people
on the path of solidarity and love between all our
brothers and sisters.
May Your Spirit help us
to speak up with courage
to share what we have and what we are
to challenge the powers that be
to offer a message of liberation and life.
We make this prayer through Christ, our Lord. Amen
Christians "supposedly" caused... Really, you used the word supposedly! As in you are not sufficiently convinced and need more proof that Christians have blood on their hands just like everyone else. Well I'm Catholic, and I can tell you, we have blood on our hands, and it’s not from stigmata.
Thom,
Timothy McVeigh was not a Roman Catholic.
He was a professed agnostic and stated that "Science is my religion"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/jun/11/mcveigh.usa4
Celebrate your brief moment of clarity. Yes, it is a Constitutional issue. Tom was commenting on the blatant discrimination inherent in the Oklahoma vote, a situation Constitutional law seeks to prevent. I expect this law will be challenged for exactly that reason. And you should celebrate that as well. (By the way, our Mr. Hartmann is not normally a screamer and unlikely to froth much.)
My first reaction, is if they want to pass a law against something that has not happened or will happen, then let them. However if they can get away with a law for something that does not exist, just based on prejudice then what will the next set be. No allowing any group of people believing or looking like they would believe in Sharia law to congregate,
I'm adding Oklahoma to my list of states to avoid. So far on my list is Arizona and Utah. We're looking to move out of the Country. Sorry, I'm not planning on going down with the ship, and believe me it's going down.
The only up side to this is that the economy is unfixable at this point due to idealogues having destroyed not only dmocracy as we knew it but most of our precious resources as well. The powers that be on both sides are unwilling to do anything to REALISTICALLY address the situation, it might as well be the republicans who get to take the blame. They will do awful, despicable things to try and continue the business as usual paradigm and they will fail.
It may finally become clear to people who have a hard time thinking clearly and critically about issues and who need to rely on simplistic ideas fed to them by authority figures and just don't understand the complexities, by actually having to wind up living in a collaped society due to their idiotic support of predators who care nothing about anyone or anything but their own obscene need to constantly seek more and more power.
Get ready my friends by learning how to be resilient and live in community with your neighbors. Those who don't are going to suffer a great shock one day when they go to the market to buy food and it is gone or so expensive they cannot purchase it. Start growing food in community gardens and learn how to do things without petroleum now while there is still time.
Thom Hartmann is obsessed and outraged with the thought of a CEO of a major health insurance company legally earning millions of dollars in salary and stock options that were duly voted on by the board of directors and stock holders and I would like to emphasize legally. Yet, the waste fraud and abuse of the Medicare and Medicaid systems is twice as much as the top15 health insurance companies earnings combined and to boot, they are solvent! Looks to me like it would be prudent for the system that Thom Hartmann is so fond of… is to hire a couple of these CEO’s so they could clean up the corruption and mismanagement and save the taxpayer literally billions of dollars for the cost of a few million needed to hire them!
What I just pointed out to you is the hypocrisy, ignorance and downright foolishness of a socialist! (Thom Hartmann) The socialist does not like being called a socialist because the definition of a socialist is that the state also has ownership of industry and control. Where as they only seek control. That’s like me owning my car but they get to drive it. The democratic socialist or "progressive"… is defined as leaving the owner ship of property and business in private hands and controlling everything else from the democratic process. That is not going to work because the entrepreneur will loose the cost benefit reward plus resentment.
Thom Hartmann takes himself to be intelligent and humane, but… when you believe that a human, "be they a socialist or a capitalist" is going to perform flawlessly you are a fool! The best way to deal with life is to have the liberty to seek the knowledge and make the intelligent choices for your self.
You can choose to do business with a corporation or not! You don’t have that choice with a government agency and that is why government has waste, fraud and abuse!
Now all we have to do is de-socialize the educational system or… should we let it collapse under its own foolishness? For starters…close the DE now!
Of coarse the question still remains for the socialist…What do you do with the poor?
Answer… You can be charitable or not! Errantly, charity is a word the socialist will never except or be responsible for. Charity is a moral obligation not enforceable by law. Charity is a direct threat to their ideology and occupation… which is basically pissing and moaning!!!
Robert Jacobs
PS Iwould like a responce from Mr. Hartmann him self!!!
I've read all of you guys' comments: Thank God for the presidential veto. The Racist Republicans can't pass anything without it getting through the Senate, which we still control and the President's veto pen! I hear all the complaints and I'm depressed and angry more than I've ever been. I'm mad as hell at the Democrats for not seeing this coming from years back. Oh yes! This was planned. The Citizens United case didn't just happen on the year redistricting by chance. This was concerned effort to make the Democrats the permanent minority party. What we have to push is the Disclose Act and various forms of campaign finance reform. As someone who worked for the US Chamber of Commerce for 6 years, I can tell you that they are very organized. Their sixth floor is nothing but lobbyists, with TVs on all day ready to pounce on anything that breaks in the news. Their fifth floor is where National Chamber Foundation or NCF is located and they have a large database of funders. The fourth floor is where Tom Donahue sits; along with Bruce Josten (the chief lobbyist) and David Hirschmann. The third floor is where the swing space is: This is where they have interns and some employees using Hoover's database to go after small, medium and large businesses to build their membership. They also do business analyses of all businesses and then send their thugs out to "drum up business". Institute for Legal Reform or ILR headed by Lisa Rickard is here too. They are responsible for going after Tort Reform. The second floor is their communications and web design floor along HR and Legal Dept. It would seem like they have a battery of lawyers; when all they have is 5; maybe 6. Their operations especially on the 5th & 6th floors are intense and they often have high turnover because ppl don't make their numbers.
If i remember correctly, wasn't Nancy Pelosi supposed to "drain the swamp"???HMMM?
"the hypocrite with his mouth destroys his neighbor"
if you are going to throw stones, make sure your own house is clean and pure!!!!
"Current Public Debt Looms" Disney Land. The Nation as yet fails to comprehend the math. Ultimately you cannot leverage yourself out of debt by accumulating more debt. It's a trick of smoke and mirrors. Bush, with the dot com bubble and WTC biting his heels almost managed to pull it off with the housing Disney Land. Obama keeps Disney Land up and running with bailouts and "stimulus".
Debt added to debt. Ultimately you can't leverage yourself out of debt by accumulating more debt. You can make yourself look good in the short term but in the end the only alternitive left is inflation on a devistating level in order to balance the books and start aknew.
Liberals and the ACLU would flip out if any state, town or village explicitly stated that judges could use Christian law to consider a case. You would be screaming and frothing at the mouth. This is a Constitutional issue.
And sure, nobody "discriminated" against Catholics over Tim McVeigh, but his voilent act was never stated as an act of holy Catholic war, and you can bet if violent acts had been perpertrated worldwide in the name of Catholicism, people would be pretty freaked out about that too. For crying out loud, you can't have a discussion with an atheist for 30 seconds without them bringing up the Crusades, or the IRA, or how much death Christians have supposedly caused.