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From about a week ago (the VEG one really chapped me)..
Can I post past issues here?
I work nights so I cannot listen live..
KILLING ANIMALS IS A "MORAL" ISSUE:
A caller said "Killing plants is the same as killing animals" (maybe a week ago) It is unbelievable people can think this way (I hope no further explanation is necessary). I did not understand the point of his bending over backwards [philosophically] to try and explain how they do not feel pain the way we do, and so on ad nausium.. Space aliens might come here and start eating us with these same arguments.. It is a simple "moral" matter of compassion? Wild animals kill to eat by instinct (very little abstract thought). "Civilized" humans have a choice, and some of us have a conscience.
bobbler
Freethought society
Liberal/Atheist/Vegetarian
POLITICAL PARTY of JESUS
I would hope that a viable party in 2012 would be The Jesus Party. Jesus is the party’s founder. The central theme of The Jesus Party was given to us at the Last Supper. It is the Eleventh Commandment. LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU.
The first problem with this idea is, what if Jesus' party loses an election? The second problem is, my understanding from reading the Christian bible is that Jesus would not have wanted a political party.. The "real problem though, is that there are many interpretations of the bible. If there were a Jesus party, the ones who would be in control would be the most politically powerful sect. The most politically powerful group would be up for grabs (probably between the protestants and the Catholics, although the Baptists hold a lot of power,, DO WE REALLY WANT TO OPEN THIS CAN OF WORMS?).. This among other reasons (not everyone is Christian for starters) is the reason the Founders chose to seperate church and state in the first place.. Without this separation if church and state, there can be no freedom of religion. Without freedom of religion, there will always be fighting (and I mean with bombs, not in the courtroom,, as history has proven will happen).. I wish liberals, like Thom and Berne, to be in power.. If they believe in no gods or 20 gods, it neither picks our pockets or breaks our bones.
bobbler
Freethought society
Liberal/Atheist/Vegetarian
It has crept up on us so slowly we hardly realized it. The purging of critical thinking skills from our schools and from our society in general. Over the last 30 + years the Cons have been pushing us to stop thinking critically and just accept authority without question.
It really started in the 1960s with the spread of activism and public protests. It was a movement in response to an unjust and unnecessary war. Our generation was the product of an affluent and successful middle class resulting from high taxes on the rich, enforcement of anti-trust laws, empowerment of labor unions and an educated and informed generation of young people. It was this generation of critical thinkers that scared the shit out of the Republicans. When we took to the streets and challenged the authority of the establishment a shock wave resonated throughout the conservative world.
Conservative thinking relies on unquestioning acceptance of authority as the way to keep socieity civil and keep the rabble from mucking up the works. That fear gave rise to a long and sustained effort to cleanse our country of the cancer of critical and progressive thinking. When President Nixon said that if the President does it then it must be legal, he set the mold for the future vision of conservatives for a rigidly ordered nation where dissent is not tolerated and punishable by all manner of penalties.
It really kicked into high gear during the Reagan administration when the Cons were able to eliminate most of the means of imparting critical thinking skills to students the elimination of civics classes, principles of democracy classes and any kind of format that would encourage students to question authority and make an attempt to improve their lot in life.
We now have an entire generation of young adults who have very little idea of what Jeffersonian Democracy is or what ideas and values our form of government and our principles were founded upon. They are ignorant of the great struggle throughout history between rigid, fear-driven, conservatism and forward thinking, progressivism. The demise of true journalism is one means by which the Cons have accomplished this change. We no longer have actual journalism taught in our schools and colleges - it's all been re-geared towards info-tainment - the battle for ratings, advertising dollars and PROFIT.
Our media, what the founding fathers referred to as the fourth estate - the independant journalistic means by which our representatives are held to account for their actions, has been completely swallowed by the radical right-wing corporate power structure. Through witholding enforcement of The Sherman Anti-Trust Act, corporations have been allowed to grow larger and larger until their wealth, power and influence has completely eclipsed the power and influence of we the people .
Jefferson believed that the only way this great experiment could succeed was if there were a literate and informed electorate. That is why he pushed so hard for public education and why he founded the University of Virginia. Without said informed electorate our experiment in democratic rule would be doomed to failure and this is exactly what we are experiencing now.
Critical thinking scares the holy hell out of conservatives because when people are able to think critically for themselves they don't need an authoritative government to keep them down, they tell them what to think or punish them if they step out of the limits set by their betters . When people are able to think critically they are able to understand what is happening and make informed decisions about how to govern themselves. The people take control of the helm and tell those who would be authoritarians how to steer our ship of state.
There are a few basic, root changes that must be made if we are ever to regain our power as a free and self-governing people. The re-learning of critical thinking is among the most basic of those changes. From that will stem a whole host of positive changes such as the ability to see when they are being manipulated and intimidated. When people are able to think critically about what is going on around them they will come up with amazing ideas about how to make things better.
It doesn't take a genius to see how we've been herded into a pen and manipulated and scared into doing the will of the rich and powerful, so that they may keep and increase their wealth and power. It's time to face our fears, gird our loins and push back in unison with the power of our numbers to take back what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights gave to every American, the right to be free to make our own choices about how we govern ourselves.
The government is not a them it is an us, we the people. We elect these schmucks, they are supposed to do what we want them to - that which is the very best for all of us. Reagan succeeded in creating a false demon - government. Remember when he said - The nine most terrifying words in the English language are - 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help' . It's time we turn that around and tell the conservatives - The nine most terrifying words in the English language are - I'm from the corporation and I'm here to help.
www.pahrumplife.org writes: Why privatization? In a nutshell: because mega corporations want it and those legally bribed (lobbied) in government, law makers and Judiciary, want it too, for profit, a government of the corporations by the corporations and for the corporations (remember they are “persons” in the law) working toward liberty for some and Medicare for nobody. Corporations have the gold and make the rules and are having their way with the people. It’s not too late yet to do something to stop them.
Ron: it's Thom's blog, that's right. That means it's on you to provide data if you're going to refute him. As I suspected, you got nuthin'. Just innuendo and invective.
But since you ask, go here:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/06/the_truth_about_the_...
If you have some actual data to add to the discussion, bring it. I don’t think you do. You’re just another lazy right wing freeper (who clearly was not banned for his insulting tone), throwing grenades at the parade.Why???? It is Thom's blog and he never even provides a link to his comments facts.
Ron: did Thom say it would be free? Standard attack mode: to put words in the mouths of those you attack that they did not say.
The fact is that "socialized" health care would remove the profit motive from basic human services in a way that would be beneficial or all. Cars didn't become safer until insurance companies noticed that unsafe cars were changing their bottom line. But what affects the bottom line of insurance companies? At the moment, nothing. They're free to raise their rates, deny service, and change terms at will. It is estimated that 25 cents out of every insurance premium dollar paid is profit. My wife works for a health care provider doing billing. I know for a fact that insurance companies obfuscate, stall, lie, delay, ad nauseam, and hire an army of lawyers, accountants and lobbyists to make it possible. Which requires health care providers to employ people like my wife whose sole function is to prove to insurance companies that they are, in fact, required to pay the bills they contracted to pay. These expenses only compound the damage of the ridiculous profit margins these companies expect.
Subtract all that needless interference and health care becomes massively less expensive. We'd even be willing to lose my wife's employment to make it so.
If you have some actual data to add to the discussion, bring it. I don't think you do. You're just another lazy right wing freeper (who clearly was not banned for his insulting tone), throwing grenades at the parade.
shane, in the sense you mean illegal because of NAFTA, right?
Rep Peter Degazio’s response to the Mexican tariff’s
Seems strange to rally against something that supports your conclusions.
The Hurt Locker won a lot of Oscars, surprising because it’s total box office was a little over $12 million, which suggests hardly anybody saw it. It was a political act on the part of the academy, although it does show you how easy it is to get accolades when you have an excellent script, actors and crew to work with. The one great flaw in the movie is that it portrayed the soldiers as being “addicted” to war, without exposing the dealers in this “drug.”
Hardly "addicted" as even the three main actors only one was "addicted". You do remember the young one talking to the psychologist and then his reactions after his death and after getting wounded?
"Dealers"??? Maybe you are thinking more along the lines of Battle of Haditha and the bloodlust there.
So Thom, You consider being stupid by not having a "socialist security" for health care also, no? Didn't your mother ever tell you that just because everyone else is going to jump in a lake does not mean that you should. If other industrialized countries also forced women to wear burkas would you also think we should follow that example.
The big question is why do you think just because government provides the services that it somehow is free then?
Your blog does not get too much traffic and your forum is losing interest. Why do you think that might be? I really want to know if you want lively dynamic conversations on your forum or is it meant only for "Libs". Considering that people get banned for the slightest while the "forum pets" get to insult all day, I have to wonder.
Maybe if you paid attention more to even your own words, you would in fact notice your hypocrisy as in http://www.thomhartmann.com/board/./viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3852
Thom Hartmann is a hypocrite!
Nafta, 3.5 millon more jobs outsorced to mexico..why because mexico has put a illegal tarriff on american goods.. and we back down and let drivers without drug testing,and without a database of their drivers to come drive 80,000 lbs trucks on our roads around our towns..the last decent paying american jobs outsource,and dont think about what happens when a accident in our country happens with a mexican carrier?equal protection under whos laws..questions see "ooida"website (owner operator independant drivers association)
Hi Tom;
Regarding the payday loans - It's really not a bad thing if you use it as intended. I know sometimes I get invited to a veterans activity with the Vietnam Vets. If an activity is out of town and it falls on a weekend where I have not recieved a check. I'll just give them a posted dated check for a couple hundred and I do tell them to run it through on my payday. That because I want the check to clear my account before I make any other diposition of it.
But you don't want to borrow that stuff to pay other bills with.
Take care - I enjoy listening to you,
Jim
I've been tempted to go to the chat room, but you guys all seem to be so lonely.Tom was playing Willy Nelson today and my favorite comment from Willy was in a recent issue of RS. He said that he had out lived his dick. Damn it all to hell.
@ Mstaggerlee, i never check the crap that i write. 1964 You got me again.
@Mark, Your comment was right on. Thanks
@moonbat - would that be 964 BC or AD?
Geez, and I thought _I_ was gittin' old! :D
Thom, If you remember the 60's, you did not experience the 60's. I was 18 in `964. Oh shit, now you all know.
It was great to see Thom take on one of these callers identifying himself as a teabagger and expose him as the hypocrite he was. It is also a frightful thing if we allow the privatization of much of government, particularly by putting our “defense” of paid mercenaries like Black Water who essentially have no accountability, and most of whom are in the “business” for the killing. In regard to the private/public education issue, when I was living in Sacramento there was a school district that largely divided along racial and economic lines. The wealthy white half with most of the resources tried to force a referendum on separating itself from the poor, largely minority half. I left town before there was a resolution to the matter.
In regard to payday loans, it hardly seems likely that these predatory lenders have the interests of the impoverished in mind, particularly since most payday loans have to be paid in full with the next paycheck, and not over an extended period like other loans. People can easily fall prey to a cycle where each successive pay check pays is worth less than the one before.
regarding the statement that Nancy Pelosi uses a private plane to travel home,that procedure was mandated by the republican congress after 9/11 for use by the speaker of the house
I've been on both sides of the payday loan issue - I was a customer and an employee of a payday loan lender.
As a customer, I have to say that their services were very helpful when we needed it. Having said that, it's a vicious cycle that's very difficult to escape. You borrow $300 and must pay it back with your next paycheck, but that makes you short on cash again. So you take out another loan to get through that pay period. And on and on...
As a manager of a payday loan lender, I hated my job. There was a "sales quota" to be met and if I didn't hit that, I was harassed by upper mgt. I was also forced to just about misrepresent certain products to customers in order to sell them. Part of my job was also collections and I was trained to strong arm people to repay the loan. I lasted less than 6 months before I decided I couldn't take it anymore.
As for the interest rate, I never saw anyone pay that much - even when they defaulted on the loan. A customer could come in 6 months later and pay the loan amount without extra penalty.
I've used payday loans before, and always paid them after the 2 week loan period. I hate that they exist and I hate that for some unfortunate people they are necessary.
On the payday loan sharks;
There is a difference between the 'Free Market' deciding what someone can charge, and a system gouging to the tune of 'What the market will bear'.
There is no competition. As your guest said; nobody else will lend to these people. Knowing that, the sharks will ramp up interest rates and charges as high as they can.
It is the same thing with insurance. There are no competitors.
If you make shoes and sell them for $500., most people will go look for the $100. ones from a competitor. If nobody else would sell you shoes, you would be stuck with the top price pair.
Finally, I don't think the exploded costs are balanced off by actual defaults, at least not except those brought on by the usurious rates and fees meant to expand the debts beyond all reason.
Cheers,
Rick
I called one of these companies because they would loan money secured with your car. I figured you could get a good rate since it is secured. The rate I was quoted was 7.5%. Not bad until they said that it was a monthly rate!? So I asked does that mean the APR is 90%? They said "YES". 90% APR for a loan secured with your transportation! That is criminal.
So, Wayne Root is the typical capitalist; he never met a rule he likes.
The concept of payday lending is justifiable. What is not is the interest rates the lenders charge.
The Tea Party guy who called in about fraud and abuse of government spending is a prime example of just how WHACKY our priorities are in the US! And this problem is apparent throughout our entire system when you compare private wages to any government job too.
Yesterday I sat next to a veteran at a Coffee Party meeting, and he shared his own experience with wages with me. He said that when he was nearly 20 years into his military career he was making approximately $2500 per month, while his girlfriend at the time was not even a year into her job with a private company, and she was making about $3500 per month. And as he also pointed out, she had no loyalty whatsoever (would jump to a higher paying job in a heartbeat), whereas his job clearly requires loyalty and was contracted. Obviously, being overseas on a battlefield), what he was doing was far more dangerous as well.
OUTRAGEOUS! Like Thom said, nobody questions this type of immorality. I believe this is a national crisis of priorities.