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What is very strange about the animal abuse videos is that they are similar to child abuse videos -- used not to track and trap their creators but their consumers. What is that about?
REGARDING the 'arbitrary' laws or law enforcement Thom addressed today in relation to the Roman Polanski case:
Isn't the OTHER HALF of the arbitrary law the fact that it ISN'T enforced?
I say, if the arbitrary issue is to be applied to the Roman Polanski case, then WHY WASN'T the request for his extradition renewed everyday? Why?
This is very weird. Not only did Polanski commit the crime, admit to the crime, plea bargain in relation to his crime, try to settle with his victim (and renege on paying the settlement!), convicted for his crimm but he also chose to FLEE from the justice process and paying his debt to society and assuring society he was reformed and would no longer commit such crimes. Polanski did not prove his innocence or his intent to reform when he went to Europe and continued to bed down young girls (so-called enlightened European sex standards aside).
I agree with Thom's caller who said child abuse knows no end and to argue against prosecution of child molestation/rape in ESOTERIC terms is QUICKSAND, and it would be better to pick a different case to make your points!
Several times Thom said the prosecutor was arbitrary in his judgement. NO HE WASN'T. The prosecutor is a DIFFERENT elected official I am gathering, who may be more enlightened than his predecessors! It's not like the same person has suddenly decided to change his behavior!
Regarding the animal abuse 'evidence' in the form videos: Please understand that all animal welfare groups use photography of slaughterhouses (as seen in the documentary "Food, Inc.") and labs and blood sports, etc., to indicate it's institutional existence and heinousness (as were the photos and videos of torture at Abu Grahib!). But to outlaw these videos takes away evidence and educational tools used to enlighten human beings to a new state of compassion, kindness, and interspecies/environmental awareness. This is the issue that concerns me. If it is to be portrayed as an arbitrary crime-- then what is the purpose? It looks to me that it fits right in with removing freedom of speech and thought via the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act which has already thrown people in jail for mere animal exploitation abolition leaflets. I think Thom is missing the thread here because his argument does not break down MOTIVATION far enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Enterprise_Terrorism_Act
I hope this topic can be revisited in a more full form, because Thom's presentation today sounded half-baked to me.
This past Sunday, I was forced to watch the Indianapolis Colts whip the Seahawks; the Colts players were wearing caps with pink visors, in accordance with the NFL’s observance of Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Some statistics: One in eight women will develop invasive breast cancer in their lifetimes, and it is responsible for 2.9 percent of all causes of mortality among women. A 2007 study revealed that $25,000 per death was spent on breast cancer research in 2006, while less than $2,000 per death was spent on lung cancer, the biggest killer among cancers. Since breast cancer has a 95 percent cure rate if caught early, it is money well spent. Lung cancer, although it infects fewer women than breast or skin cancer, kills almost twice as many women as breast cancer each year. Colon cancer (depending on its location), by way of comparison has a 59 to 66 percent survival rate five years after detection, which suggests a much higher mortality rate per victim.
I mention this because I was listening to Coast-to-Coast show over the weekend, where a guest was deriding the “overblown” concern about prostate cancer, since it “only” accounted for 3.6 percent of deaths among men; not that I was surprised by that, since C-to-C has a tendency to have guests who see conspiracies everywhere. This is somewhat ironic, since this death rate is higher than that of women who will die of breast cancer as a percent of all causes. Obviously, the fact that breast cancer is probably the most politicized illness in history has shielded it from such complaints. It is also, it seems to me, somewhat disturbing “advice” given that men in general seem less concerned with their health than women are; Bill Clinton, the very picture of health and vitality in his mid-fifties, succumbed to a heart attack, aided by his supposed addiction to McDonald’s burgers and fries. I'm sure many people remember how ghastly weak and shriveled he appeared after his surgery.
On a re-run of “Law and Order” I viewed the other day, a former Black Panther-type was put on trial for shooting, in what he claimed was self-defense, a former adversary police officer (who happened to be responsible for putting his son in a wheelchair for life) during an “accidental” raid on the former black radical’s apartment. The prosecutor, played by Sam Waterston, a former “liberal” and now a pitch-man for a stock market trading company, repeated a charge that I find mendacious to say the least. The current defense against being accused of racism is calling the other guy a racist—that is to say, any minority who is angry at white people because of perceived racism, is himself guilty of racism. This is the “Racism exists, but it’s the other guy ,” line of reasoning, since there is this strange belief that stereotyping and discrimination are not technically racism; it is what right-wing enthusiast Dinesh D’Souza calls “rational discrimination” based on “rightful” prejudice.
It seems that there is a fine line between racism and basing decisions on race; there just seems to be a disagreement when that line is crossed. In this episode of “Law and Order,” the prosecutor would have us believe that fighting racism is itself an act of racism, merely for the fact that the black man felt threatened by a cop who happened to be white (as if this wasn’t to be expected). We saw this during the Rev. Jeremiah Wright brouhaha. Here was a man who was undoubtedly scarred by the experience of racism in his time, and was the about the same age as a Chicago boy, Emmitt Till, was brutally maimed and killed by Mississippi white men for the crime of whistling at a white woman; when Till's body was returned to Chicago, his mother made certain that people saw the horror, and not be allowed to pretend it didn't happen. Many people would say let bygones be bygones, the world has changed, be satisfied with patronization. So what if beneath the surface sheen of a president, successful athletes and entertainers there is a rotten foundation.
History is plain enough, despite Law and Order’s propaganda that everyone is guilty. The Black Panthers talked revolution, but J. Edgar Hoover and his law enforcement helpers made sure it was only Panthers who were killed; Fred Hampton’s blood-soaked bed sheets was testimony to that.
The "new" Mattel doll isn't new, it's been out for almost a year. Each character doll in the American Girl series has their own book. And in the book, this doll (Gwen) is mentioned, almost in passing, to have been homeless at one time. The story doesn't dwell on this point, but moves on to more interesting things. Again this has been out for almost a year (so you can imagine that the story in the book is a year older than that). It's not something new Mattel is producing to cash in on the recession, which some are making it out to be.
This doll thing sounds like more black magic hexes to me. Of all the nerve!
This is how they celebrate the 50 year anniversary of the Klaus Barbee Doll which has driven young girls to crave injections of plastic.
Using the Chinese arbitrary prosecutions of jaywalkers and unauthorized relocation to draw a line to the prosecution of a confessed child rapist is pretty weak. The question Thom should be asking is not "Why now?", but rather "Why did it take so long?"
Does anyone really believe that if Joe Schmuck fled to Europe to avoid prison as a confessed child rapist, that the US would not have extradited him YEARS ago, at the first opportunity? So why did it take so long with Polanski. That is the relevant question.
Regarding the less clear discussion on "crush" videos: If there is no legal basis for making posession of these videos a crime, then what legal basis is there for making posession of child pornography a crime? Society (or the Commons, as Thom says sometimes) has determined that it has an interest in eradicating the production of such material by making even posession of it illegal. Is this wrong? Does society not have the right to do this?
I may have missed mention of this but as far as I know there was an unannounced program change. I hadn’t noticed the change until late in the second hour and was wondering if I was hallucinating earlier when I thought I saw a totally different topic listed for the third hour.
But the Google tells me I was right.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=thom+hartmann+amy+b+dean&aq=f&a...
“Monday Oct 5th 2009 | Thom Hartmann
Hour Three: “Do we need 'A New 'New Deal'” Thom speaks with author Amy B. Dean about regional activism and the labor movement www.cornellpress.cornell.edu ...
www.thomhartmann.com/2009/.../monday-oct-5th-2009/ - 15 hours ago – Similar”
I’m guessing that the guest had to cancel for some reason, but it would have been nice to hear about some “community organizing”.
Oh Lord!!!
Sometimes I'd rather believe that Rasta is a fictitious character made up by the Thom Hartmann Show staff than a real person saying such absurd things.
Who knows, maybe Rasta's really a pigeon.
The threat is real!
http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/2009/10/04/the-threat-to-your-libert...
I missed Thom's first two hours but his discussion of the Roman Polanski case has me reassessing my position.
Prosecutorial misconduct is a concern. What is interesting is that we have cafeteria prosecutors who pick and choose the cases they want to take to court.
I read an article by Paul Craig Roberts that I will share with you.
UNBELIEVEABLE !!!......THOM HARTMANN STICKING UP FOR THE RIGHTS OF PEDOPHILES
THIS IS PRECISELY THE SNIVELING LIBERAL SPINELESSNESS THAT WE HAVE COME TO EXPECT FROM THOM AND HIS ILK......DON'T EVER CALL YOURSELVES PROGRESSIVES EVER AGAIN !
PLUS.......I THINK THIS IS MORE ABOUT PROJECTION THAN ANYTHING ELSE......MAYBE WE NEED TO DIG INTO THOM'S PAST......SOMETHING AROUND THE MID 1970'S WITH CHILDREN THAT YOU DON'T NECESSARILY WANT RE-DUG UP THOM?
Richard,
More CX: Too many to list. Just try to get thru my post the best you can. 'Sorry.
s.b. "hypocrits like Tom Friedman"
Richard,
YES! And it pisses me off to read hypocrits Tom Friedman talk about his fears about the emotional upheaval in this country when he helped to promote inequality and lack of financial stability and a better standard of living in this country through his books like "The Lexus and the Olive Tree."
"Where Did 'We" Go?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/opinion/30friedman.html
'Funny how some people have no shame...
B Roll,
Yes, I often think how different my life would be if...(I were a minority race, handicapped, etc. --- tho I think I do get "points" for being a woman.) It's depressing, unfair, outrageous, etc. that there are SO MANY "Americas" in which people in this country must live.
A friend of mine told me about the Wellpoint "grim reaper" letter to all employees on Saturday . . . they were informed that Wellpoint (aka Anthem, now based in Indiana) will be cutting 10% of its roster overall.
He didn't mention the cutback in benefits. He's worked for them for 30 years and until now had 100% coverage - no deductibles. He is exempt and working 7 days a week.
Thankfully, I am now on Medicare - my own company, facing a 25% increase in premiums, just reduced our coverage to 50/50 for in-network providers
Sandra Day O’Connor can decry America’s legal issues all she wants . . . BUT she has gotta recognize that her being the fifth vote on appointing GW Bush was the threshold for the destruction of Justice in America.
I’m wondering if I’m like Stephen Colbert and just don’t see race. So up to today, I had no idea that Thom Hartmann is white. But now I’m getting suspicious. A few things tipped me off today.
First, I heard Thom longing for the good old days when our economy worked. But the economy didn’t work that way if you were African-American of Latino.
Second, Thom is expressing concern about our legal system morphing into a system of “arbitrary prosecution”. Of course, it’s always been a system of “arbitrary prosecution” for African-Americans, Latinos and members of some other non-white ethnic groups.
I’d suggest David Feige’s book “Indefensible: One Lawyer’s Journey into the Inferno of American Justice” for a chilling account of how the good justice system works.
Well, well, well! After a caller pointed out that “arbitrary prosecution” has been around for a long time, Thom has admitted that there has been racially based “arbitrary prosecution” for a long time. It just didn’t occur to him until someone else raised the point.
Maybe Thom is like Stephen Colbert too and just can’t tell that his guests are almost all white. Thom just doesn’t see race.
Since I was already starting this post, I won’t let Thom’s meaningless mea culpa stop me from posting this.
Thom,
Interesting article in yesterday's New York Times Magazine:
"Understanding the Anxious Mind
By ROBIN MARANTZ HENIG
Is the economy making you nervous? Or is it terrorism? Or could it be the way you’re hard-wired?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/magazine/04anxiety-t.html?ref=magazine
@Mark:
I am sorry. I failed to communicate my issue with your thought process. Let me try again.
There are a crap-load of reasons to re-regulate trading and banking operations; rewriting tax policies to require the repatriot-ization of our workforce and returning the manufacturing base to our country; AND requiring that companies with governmental contracts be headquartered on American dirt.
Your initial point was “OOOO, look at the bad stock market” then you went on to cover the exporting of our labor base. There is a real and viable case that can be made for these things being linked . . . Unfortunately; you utterly failed to do so. There was no transition or linking statements and to make matters worse you beat the drum for the other side in your attempt to co-opt the meme.
Think:
Bad folk are evil, therefore duct tape sales should be regulated BUT without pointing out that bad folk tie up others with duct tape, there is no story.
The other side is intentionally logically sloppy. We need to clean up our communication. This was not about criticizing your mindset, it was about sharpening our message.
The Polanski case is also about bread and circus. While justice and the rule of law requires Polanski paying for his crime:
1. This is about branding liberal folk who defend him as defenders of the perverted. This is payback for the Catholic churches black-eye on the pedophile priest thingy.
2. Over the last eight years, we were largely desensitized against prosecuting criminal acts by our ‘ruling’ class. Now we can point towards the bad guy getting spanked and have a ‘look at the kitty’ moment about the jack_holes who are destroying America through fascism and kleptocracy.
3. PLUS our do-nothing Department of Justice gets a gold star for finally pretending to do its job.
Thom,
"Arbitrary" prosecution was one of the things that I thought was so frightening under the Bush ("W") administration. It doesn't seem like a new idea. Obama's tenure only allowed me to feel that I, as an American, could exhale slightly. Justice is still a hope, not a reality.
To Richard L. Adlof:
Experts smarter than both me and you recognize that the investors "reward" companies that reduce costs by downsizing. That's common sense. I frankly have no idea of what you were talking about, and I doubt you really do either.
Anyways, Thom seemed especially animated today; he did something today that all lawmakers who support weapons control should do in calling out lawmakers who oppose it: is there any limit to the type of weapons that can be privately owned? There is, of course, the “common sense” answer, but when Pat Buchanan tells us that the “limit” is anything you can’t haul with a truck, “common sense” is no longer a part of the equation. It would be interesting to see a Republican be forced to answer the question, and try to weasel his or her way out of having to either expose their consciencelessness to the American people, or put them on the hot seat with gun rights advocates.
Earlier today I heard a caller on Stephanie Miller’s show complain that we were losing jobs because of our trade agreements with “third world” countries, which is not exactly true, and Miller and company failed to correct him on it. Thom, not to his credit, has frequently blamed our easily-scapegoated neighbors to the south, apparently because we have nifty catch-names for our trade agreements with them. But if anyone checks the official government foreign trade statistics, our trade problems with “third world” countries, stereotyped as Latin America and Africa, far pales in comparison to our vast trade imbalances with Europe and Asia, especially China. Forget where our electronic and automobile products are coming from (we know that); I used to work for an apparel company where the main sources of product were places like Indonesia, Pakistan and Bulgaria. I never saw anything with a “Made in Mexico” or anything else made in Latin America (or Africa, for that matter). This blaming our neighbors for our trade problems is happening because it’s easy, and it satisfies Americans’ immediate prejudices and bigotries.
In addition to grousing about inverted taxation policies, America needs to hold Ronald Reagan’s name as a curse for millennia to follow for the intentional destruction of our educational system. By forcing the de-funding of ‘Humanities’, the Reagan Administration eliminated exposure to entire skill sets for our youth and future generations AND destroyed learning systems for those whose primary learning is not by rout or by reiteration. Largely, this was not about saving money as it was sold to America’s citizenry; it was about population control.
Gone are the supports for story tellers, artisans and musicians. Invention and intuition is drugged away and molded out of us. The relational databases that are our minds are being starved for input. Our education system is producing thralls that are functionally separated from their ability to process. Our ballooning illiteracy rate is merely a symptom of the dearth that follows. We are losing the ability to think cyclically and linearly. Jingoism and the thirty-second mentality have supplanted our ability to do the very things that has brought humanity to the point we are now.
I think that America needs to return to educating its young folk about logic, rhetoric and debate as well classical economics, history and civics.