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OOOPS! , The technique I mentioned but failed to identify in my haste is the one of using questions in debating policy. One of the most common themes in the New Testament is helping the poor. Al Franken is fond of saying that if we cut out all the references to the poor in the Bible we would have a great book to smuggle Rush Limbaugh's drugs in.
Indulging a right winger religious zealot in a theological debate that was started as a political discourse is an exercise in futility. It is like the guy hitting his head against the wall. When asked why he is doing so, he replies: " because when I quit it feels better". Separation of Church and State is a old and wise idea. It is beneficial and protective of both.
DDay - let us respectfully disagree.
If you are speaking with a follower of Jesus, it's ok to quote Jesus. Of course, to other people you might use the words of people THEY admire.
I picked up my technique through trial and error while going door to door in Michele Bachmann's district. Thom, Ed, & Rachel are great role models. Quoting Bible verses in a public political discussion is problematic for me. It might be problematic for a Jew or a Muslim or an atheist too. People's religious beliefs can be private and shouldn't preclude their participation or lend greater weight to the arguments of those who proselytize. If Jesus spoke to a particular issue and his words illuminate understanding between people great. But using him like a trump card is rude in the secular world. Render unto Cesear what is Cesear's? Bringing religion into a secular debate only alienates and complicates. Churches, Temples, and Mosques are here for a reason and so are public squares.
Respectfully disagreeable am I.
[The Fed] is bigger than the Congress, [it] has more power than the Congress. The Fed Chairman probably is more powerful than our president...
-Ron Paul on CNN
Stephen Colbert did as good a job of explaining Santa Clara County v Southern Pacific Railroad as I’ve ever heard on The TH Show Tuesday night.
I’ve never heard it mentioned more than in passing on any broadcasts except those of Thom or Colbert.
Here in the Bay Area the Colbert Show will be reshown on MSNBC on Wednesday Afternoon and then again at 8 Wednesday Evening.
Ask Rep. Hoekstra why recessivist revisionism is called “history” in Teaxas:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/right_wing_ideologue_e...
Ask Rep. Hoekstra why it is okay for GOP members to leak secret info but not DEMs:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/hoekstra_leaking_class...
Loretta - one other thing: BRING A PAL!
I always feel better when a friend is around and it'll show in your voice. Maybe your pal can video the interaction, then you can review your performance to coach yourself, like athletes always do. Every interaction is a learning opportunity.
Oh yeah, and if you're a Christian and can do so sincerely, quote Jesus. A lot. He's got MANY great ideas. Rightwing theologians twist his words with strange arguments ("wolves in sheep's clothing") so just stick to Jesus's original words as a strong base, e.g. "Heal the sick" over and over.
And finally --- Have fun!!!
@DDay - thanks4 the kind words. I picked up most of this stuff listening to Thom, Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow talk with the righties. It's an education!
Randy Winn,
I was writing my post while your wisdom came up. I agree with you, obviously. Asking questions strategically is a little like playing chess.
truesue,
Another thing to realize about health savings accounts is that the rich love them. They can park some more money away sheltered from taxes.
Loretta,
A tactic I have found helpful when confronted by arguments and objections is to ask questions. Clever use of questions can help you isolate objections. You can paint them into a corner. The other thing it does is let you control the direction of a discussion. People love to be asked their opinions. If you are clever you can lead them to the hole in their argument which is covered by twigs and leaves and have the satisfaction of watching them willingly step into it. And they do most of the talking.
Can anybody here or anywhere point out one single solitary case where Harry Reid ever did not accede to Republican demands in the final out come?
Inquiring minds wanna know . . .
tax reform get corporations to pay their taxes. no more off shore bank accounts. how much does halitburton owe in taxes.
@truesue:
You missed his point. If one can not afford to save to pay healthcare; one should promptly get about the process of dying.
Loretta, it may be impossible to "win" an "argument" because you cannot get an angry person to admit they are wrong.
What you CAN do is speak NOT to the angry person who is "arguing" but to the lookers-on who are trying to decide who to trust - you or the angry person.
One way to do THAT by asking the any person questions they are afraid to answer. For example, if they bring up the 9/12 BeckStock ask them why Fox News didn't release an overhead photo of the Washington Mall. Fox has the $$ for a simple overhead shot so why would they not show it.
Or, if they bring up "37 Czars" ask them what a Czar is. If they change the subject, ask them again. And again. Over and over.
The point is not to get anyone to admit they are wrong; authoritarian people can't. You can however stump them, which will persuade true neutrals.
For examples of great questions to ask, please see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y
Oh yeah, and get Thom's book on "Cracking the Code"!
Great point! Cathy. Fex Ex- will not serve all of us- Cherry pickers.
Get a load of this plant calling in from Lisa - Good way to handle this! A Rush Limbaugh listener!
Loretta,
Are you asking for help on topics to argue and not to argue? Are you asking for our ideas?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascist
Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
— fas·cist \-shist also -sist\ noun or adjective often capitalized
— fas·cis·tic \fa-ˈshis-tik also -ˈsis-\ adjective often capitalized
— fas·cis·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb often capitalized
And you know what else True Sue? If we stopped spending the little we have to save for healthcare, what else would we be buying? The bottom of the economy would fall out and there his own replenishment of his money supply.
I am going to go to a speaker's meeting this week, so I have been thinking a lot about what the difference is between a good argument to get into, and one that we should avoid. I don't have a good sense of this at all. I'm feeling so crazy about this that I'm going to be glad to get some guidance. I feel like I want to walk out my door and start screaming.
Researching what the caller said about Jesus being a Jewish Communist:
What he said:
"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me. (Matthew 19:21)
"Sell your possessions and give that money to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys" (Luke 12:33)
What he did!
Jesus never charged for curing the sick!
The only time Jesus got angry at another human being was when he whipped the moneychangers!
What his original followers did!
They began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. (Acts 2:45)
There was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need (Acts 4:34-35)
DRichards, That's for sure! I hadn't read your post, but I'll so it right now.
Loretta
Of course it's a tactic to steer one off course. My point is that "that dog don't hunt".
The post office does an amazing job for 42 cents!
Isn't it amazing how slow witted people are. Health Savings Accounts? What a joke! I'm sure this guy's intentions are good, but he is totally blind to the fact that not everyone in this country makes enough money to save anything for health care or anything else. How many young people do you know who make enough money to pay the rent, buy the food, have a somewhat decent life, and then have enough left over to save for health care. If they are saving, it's for a "rainy day" or some future large purchase, like buying a car or a house. What planet does this guy live on if he thinks any of the dwindleing middle class has enough money leftover to save for more than one thing at a time.
It may have been possible when Thom & I were growing up, but not any more. These people live in a world where they & their friends can afford everything and don't understand they are in the minority.
To those who think we should organize against the Insurance Companies, get a grip. We need to organize a real "Public Option March on Washington"!! Take our butts out there and push hard. If these idiots can put on a "thousand moron march", why can't we get organized to do it bigger and better. It's what worked for Civil Rights and the Vietnam War and it will work again.
sorry, I meant back "counties." I need to start using my reading glasses:-)