Recent comments

  • "Reading, Writing, and Rockets? The UN Discovers 20 Rockets Hidden At School In Gaza"   5 min 48 sec ago

    Wonder when you are going to show the same concern for the 100's of thousands of Jews driven from the Arab world after '49 and by the way the 100's of M. of dollars of property they left behind? - See more at: http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2014/07/reading-writing-and-rockets-un-discovers-20-rockets-hidden-school-gaza?page=1#comment-278072 unquote

    And that joiner is nothing but a piece of revisionist hyperbole.

  • Is the Future of the Planet in ALEC's Secret Hands?   7 min 24 sec ago

    Tomorrow, during Alec's meeting, Nuke Dallas, Texas.

    Problem solved.

     

  • Five Israeli Talking Points on Gaza—Debunked   22 min 59 sec ago

    Uh huh, I'm with Alberto. I'm tired of trying to engauge on this issue with revisionists and Zion lap dogs.

    12, go stick your head in the sand with somae and take your false prophet along for the ride as well.

  • World breaks temperature record for June after hottest May   24 min 49 sec ago

    douglaslee wrote:

    Chapter 2 of Manufacturing Consent addresses the slanted coverage of El Salvador.  Worthy and Unworthy victims compares the quantitative coverage of the Polish Priest killed and how awful it was, Poland was communist still, -bad. Yet the priests killed in Central America, our satellite spheres,-good dictators and death squads,  got barely a whimper. 

    Here is how they set the chapter up using their Propaganda Model as a testing device:

    Herman and Chomsky wrote:

    2. Worthy and Unworthy Victims

    A PROPAGANDA SYSTEM WILL CONSISTENTLY PORTRAY PEOPLE abused in enemy states as worthy victims, whereas those treated with equal or greater severity by its own government or clients will be unworthy. The evidence of worth may be read from the extent and character of attention and indignation. We will show in this chapter that the U.S. mass media’s practical definitions of worth are political in the extreme and fit well the expectations of a propaganda model. While this differential treatment occurs on a large scale, the media, intellectuals, and public are able to remain unconscious of the fact and maintain a high moral and self-righteous tone. This is evidence of an extremely effective propaganda system.

    2.1. JERZY POPIELUSZKO VERSUS A HUNDRED RELIGIOUS VICTIMS IN LATIN AMERICA

    A useful comparison can be made between the mass media’s treatment of Jerzy Popieluszko, a Polish priest murdered by the Polish police in October 1984, and the media’s coverage of priests murdered within the U.S. sphere of influence. In our model, Popieluszko, murdered in an enemy state, will be a worthy victim, whereas priests murdered in our client states in Latin America will be unworthy. The former may be expected to elicit a propaganda outburst by the mass media; the latter will not generate sustained coverage.

    Herman, Edward S.; Chomsky, Noam (2011-07-06). Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media (Kindle Locations 2029-2034). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

    I imagine you could apply that statistical model of press coverage to some of the issues we are seeing debated between status quo true believers and skeptics right here on this site today.

    douglaslee wrote:

    http://skepdic.com/ is one tool I use to counter common fallacies. Suburban myths has over a 100 nonsense statements accepted as fact. I see some popping up repeatedly. 'The 2nd law of thermodynamics refutes evolution' gets pasted often. Ellen Degeneras mentioned one "We really only use 10% of our brain- think how smart we would be if we used the other half".

    I continue to offer the irony that Oreskes "Tobacco Strategy" was a skeptic-based strategy created by scientists to defend a tobacco corporation's vested interests in selling tobacco products, and employs the much valued (by rationalists, anyway) notion of skepticism in order to create a counter science propaganda.

  • "Reading, Writing, and Rockets? The UN Discovers 20 Rockets Hidden At School In Gaza"   39 min 33 sec ago

    Ooooh, and they're coming to get you joiner. Be sure to check under your bed and close the closet door before you turn out the light tonight.

    And really, just how many innocent Israelis do you think there are? And I mean innocent as in not complicit in one way or another of the crimes against the Palestinians?

  • Five Israeli Talking Points on Gaza—Debunked   42 min 6 sec ago

    We cannot get peace nor a two state agreement until the Palestenians all agree that the way to peace is to recognize the existance of the State of Israel.  The constant flow of misinformation continues to exorbate the situation.  If the facts are presented actually it is a place to start for both sides.  Yesterday you had a caller who clearly mistated the cause of this current conflict and blamed the standard media for misrepresenting the facts.  And then you allowed him to mistate the facts.

    He stated that this conflict was started by Israel as retaliation for the kidnaping and killing of the three jewish boys by Hamas.  That is not true it resulted do to an heinous act by some Israelis in the killing of an innocent Palestnian boy.  The reaction of the state of Israel was to condemn, capture and will now try those who commited this act something any civilized society would do.

    On the other hand Hamas applauded those who committed the original crime and then attacked Israel after the second crime.

    Yet you did not correct the facts and allow this type of misinformation to continue and further polarize the feelings on the Palestinian side.  If we report the facts we may realize that Israel is defending itself from those who want to destroy them and it is every countries right to do that.

    This is a cycle that has gone on for thousands of years and people have to learn to live in the now and create a future without this unneccesary bloodshed.  Agreements can only be made when both parties are willling to realize that each area will have soverign boaders, and live without the constant threat of terrorist acts.  The Palestinian people have been placed in poor conditions by the constant attacking of Israel and the fact that their leadership is bent on not building a future but staying in the past and seeking only vengance. 

    Its time to tell it like it is and not just look to say what is politically correct.

     

  • Homophobic Senator Marco Rubio Says it's Supporters of Gay Marriage Who Are the Intolerant Ones   56 min 24 sec ago

    Bigotry is believing that you are superior to another because of some inherited trait.  Nature granted you heterosexuality and others homosexuality.  Believing that one of those two is deserving of recognition while the other is not (and to be clear I am talking about legally sanctioned marriage and not religiously ordained marriage -- voodoo can do whatever it wants because it does not rely on rational reasoning anyway) when not only does it not serve a purpose it actually does harm -- that is bigotry.  It is the desire to provide one's self with a priviledged position in society at the expense of others.  It is what Marco Rubio is advocating.  I suspect that you keep returning to this question because you suppose it defends Rubio's position as being one that is based on a valid consideration but it is not a valid consideration.  Acknowledging that children deserve recognition and support from society is in fact part of the argument in favor of marriage equality. It provides for a stronger, not weaker, social structure that benefits children who get left out under the present paradigm by giving legal recognition to same sex households with children. It only detracts from a "traditional" family structure in the tortured minds of those who's crippled psyche requires validation outside of pure love and emotional attachment.  I'm tired of repeating myself on this.  Please refer back to post #54 so I don't have to go through the reasoning all over again. 

  • World breaks temperature record for June after hottest May   1 hour 1 min ago

    Chapter 2 of Manufacturing Consent addresses the slanted coverage of El Salvador.  Worthy and Unworthy victims compares the quantitative coverage of the Polish Priest killed and how awful it was, Poland was communist still, -bad. Yet the priests killed in Central America, our satellite spheres,-good dictators and death squads,  got barely a whimper. 

    http://skepdic.com/ is one tool I use to counter common fallacies. Suburban myths has over a 100 nonsense statements accepted as fact. I see some popping up repeatedly. 'The 2nd law of thermodynamics refutes evolution' gets pasted often. Ellen Degeneras mentioned one "We really only use 10% of our brain- think how smart we would be if we used the other half".

  • World breaks temperature record for June after hottest May   1 hour 11 min ago

    Getting pissed off or tolerating the level of propagandistic manipulation we are subjected to, through what was allegedely an objective, fact-oriented journalistic process that we as a demos were to trust as a source of informing ourselves, are not the only options.  Bringing us to anger is yet another of their tactics for manipulation;  I see that taking place on this board over and over.  Luntz, among others, is quite clear about the route to manipulation through emotions that his mentor in psychic manipulation, Edward Bernays, paved for all of these public relations manipulators. 

    While it is silly to deny our emotions -- they are real, after all -- we can take them into account as we explore deeper into these very well established and very publicly accessible methods of mass manipulation that have been developed by those in the Mandarin class, as Chomsky would to call them in his earlier political analyst years.

    Speaking of Chomsky, Naomi Oreskes and her co author take a cue from Chomsky and his, Edward Herman, in their Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media.  Oreskes "Tobacco Strategy" is akin to Chomsky/Herman's testable "Propaganda Model" that composes the gist of M.C.'s first chapter, which they use as a testing form for the other chapters of their tome. This takes the tome a step beyond mere opinionizing and into the rational science realm. Oreskes applies her "Tobacco Strategy" model to all sorts of other science befuddling and confusing actions we are riddled with, and we all can learn to do the same ourselves.  This rational strategy makes sense for her, too, since she was an actual practicing oceanographic scientist before she turned her efforts towards the history of science.

    Though I find them a bit lightweight for a necessary deeper analysis of a topic, TED talks are a fine way to be introduced to new ideas.  I see that site informs us there have been 430,734 views of Naomi's presentation you linked.  Hopefully some won't let it rest there.  The more people work to understand propaganda tactics the less successful they will be.

  • "Reading, Writing, and Rockets? The UN Discovers 20 Rockets Hidden At School In Gaza"   1 hour 15 min ago

    What, the UN admits Hamas is less than totally innocent? I'm surprised to learn they're not quoting Hamas' as saying its rockets weren't ordered from South of the Border on I-95.

  • Putting Your Tax Dollars to Bloody Work   1 hour 21 min ago

    I'll bet Alberto has a portrait of Herr Doktor Professor Joseph Goebbels above his typing station.

  • "The Moral Chasm Between Israel and Hamas"   1 hour 24 min ago

    Thank you General Conway for your much wiser words than most I've seen posted on this website concerning the recent fighting in the Gaza Strip.

    Some of the most appalling bullshit I've seen thus far published on this otherwise excellent website is the comparison above between what the Nazis did to the Polish Jews during the Ghetto Uprising and what Israel is having to do concerning Hamas' recent provocations which brought about this war.

    Was anybody in Tel Aviv planning forced evacuations of the Gaza of Palestinians into some desert concentration camp, only to let them bake and die in the desert? If that question seems incredibly offensive, I offer no apologies because it was meant to drive home a point: There are no morally equal justifications for comparing Gaza, or the West Bank to what the Nazis did to the Jews of Europe, or ... if Rommel's tanks weren't stopped by the British in Egypt, the SS and Grand Mufti would have done to the Palestinian Jews of the former British Transjordan.

    Maybe the words of a Ukrainian-born former school teacher might have some impact on a few thickened skulls and hearts:

    “We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”   Golda Meir, Israeli PM (1969-74)

     

  • Homophobic Senator Marco Rubio Says it's Supporters of Gay Marriage Who Are the Intolerant Ones   1 hour 48 min ago

    rs allen wrote:
    Ah, okay. So you're interested in labels. Never mind, it sounds like a personal problem to me.

    Is that not what this thread is about? What constitutes bigotry?

  • Canada's attack on Charities   2 hours 2 min ago

    More here; Environmental advocacy.. pretty much terrism I guess..

    http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/15/stephen_harper_inti...

    Sad.

  • Homophobic Senator Marco Rubio Says it's Supporters of Gay Marriage Who Are the Intolerant Ones   2 hours 7 min ago

    gumball wrote:

    ulTRAX wrote:

    Yes.... are you happy now?

    Bottom line is WHO CARES whether a gay relationship doesn't lead to "the miracle of life". That this is your conceptual starting point instead of caring more whether all consenting, loving adults have the right to free association or equal legal rights proves you have some deeper issues here. And how many hetero relationships also don't lead to your "miracle of life"?  My uncle and aunt met and married in the late 50's.  No "miracle of life" potential there. My sister and brother in law could not have kids. No "miracle of life" there either. My friend from college could never conceive even with artificial insemination. No "miracle of life" there. She adopted. One of my cousins had to adopt. Are you suggesting their relationships are somehow inferior or deserve less respect than those relationships that lead to your "miracle of life" canard? That you can't get past this "miracle of life" bullshit or seem to think this provides you some get-out-of-jail trump card justification for your attitudes, proves you have issues here.

    Where have I stated a desire to deny consenting, loving adults of anything? As I stated in the editited out qoute, I voted for gay marriage when it came to a vote here in Washington.

    I was not talking about particular relationships, I was talking about the general difference between the two types of relationships under discussion here.

    Another evasive Gumball runaround. Yes, things that are different on some level are obviously different on that level.

    SO WHAT?

    WTF is even your point if these "differences" have no importance outside their lives? Why are you obsessed with "differences" when the real issue is how consenting adults want to live their lives? The problem here isn't with what consenting adults want to do with their lives but how bigots try to use the power of the state to stop them.

    If you're looking to justify your bigotry or religion... look for your absolution elsewhere. You're not going to find it here. If that's not what you're up to... then what's your game since I tire of this constant evasive bullsh*t from you.

     

  • Does the powerful Paul Ryan feel empathy?   2 hours 24 min ago

    Vegasman56 ~ It looks good to me. I like the way you used the Declaration of Independence to frame your argument. I've even bookmarked it for future reference.

    It's high time our elected representatives learn that they are directly answerable to We the People. I think that it is also high time that We the People acquired the tools to unceremoniously and peaceably remove any representative from office who displeases a simple majority of the electorate. It would be healthy for the country; and, also, an eye opener for other officials to keep in mind while in office that they could be removed at any time. It would certainly motivate them to keep their ears open at all times. As John Lennon said, "Power to the People!"

    (I'd be honored if you would post that last paragraph above as a comment on your blog too.)

  • "The Moral Chasm Between Israel and Hamas"   2 hours 27 min ago

    polycarp2 wrote:

    In a future time, what israel is doing in Gaza will be compared to the holocausts of Hitler and the shelling of the Warsaw Ghetto....indescriminantly killing defenseless men, women and children.

    The comparison with the Warsaw Ghetto can be made now.

    A population of men, women and childern
    crammed into small,overcrowed area.. same.

    Fenced in by high walls and razor wire.. same.

    Anyone climbing the fence shot on sight.. same.

    Supply of food, medicine, in fact everything,at the whim
    of the gaolers and used as a weapon... same

    Hunger and disease widespread.. same.

    Rights of the inmates, none.. same.

    The Germans used tanks and bombs to blow up
    peoples' homes,often with the people inside..... same.

    For most of its existance the Warsaw Ghetto was used as 
    a prison camp, that was a much shorter period than
    the Gaza ghetto has existed.

    It's not much of a claim to say Gaza is not as bad as Warsaw !
    The numbers vary, but the basic
    inhumanity speaks for itself.

     It cannot be justified.

  • "Court rejects atheists’ challenge to ‘Ground Zero Cross’"   2 hours 30 min ago

    Nah, I haven't forgotten it and doubt any others have either.

    Somehow though I doubt that the state would allow me a burning man ceremony on that 'sacred site'.

  • World breaks temperature record for June after hottest May   2 hours 43 min ago

    naomi_oreskes_why_we_should_believe_in_science is a shorter presentation than the one from her book site. Her IPCC explanation combined with her Ted talk, and just a nudge toward critical thinking might offset the Luntz strategy for some. When I see I'm being lied to, I get pissed off, I don't know how others tolerate it. Linguistic charades and semiotics, once understood, ought to raise one's awareness of common deceit, or the banality of deceit.

    Another Naomi, (Kline or Wolfe) wrote of the shock doctrine and the manipulation of so many narratives to dress man made disasters up in natural costumes.   

  • Israel's Action in Gaza: 'Is This Not a War Crime?'   2 hours 45 min ago

    Such arrogance!  Read the tone in "lady," and get what we are up against.

    Any "threat" to Israel justifies anything Israel feels "necessary" in return no matter how many innocent people die to pursue the elusive "militants" and "radicals" who have the effrontery to live in Gaza where there is no escape and no military base or "force."  Mosquitos are making the lives of Israelis unpleasant, so "drain the swamp."  

    Power has its responsilities no matter how it seeks to evade it with a legal farce.  The "occupation" continues, and all Israel has "changed" is its bullshit case for not actually having the guards live in the concentration camp or partol its corridors.  They just maintain the Wall, blockade sea and land, and wipe out the civilian infrastructure of what was already condemned for being an apartheid hell.

    I don't care if there is a radicalized Hamas refusing to surrender because it is what one would expect from Israeli oppression.  "Hamas" has been created by Israel, so using that brand to kill wantonly is totally cynical even if these zealots are pathologically sincere.

  • Does the powerful Paul Ryan feel empathy?   2 hours 49 min ago

    I've already got a google account.  Didn't do me much good.  (Grrrrrrrr!!!!)

  • "Court rejects atheists’ challenge to ‘Ground Zero Cross’"   2 hours 50 min ago

    "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Just to refresh your memory, drc2. It's the part you Libs always seem to forget.

  • Homophobic Senator Marco Rubio Says it's Supporters of Gay Marriage Who Are the Intolerant Ones   2 hours 54 min ago

    gumball wrote:

    rs allen wrote:
    Is this an honest question gumball or are you just being argumentative?

    No, I am trying to impart a point of view to you all while at the same trying to understand the progressive point of view on what falls under the umbrella of bigotry.

     

    Ah, okay. So you're interested in labels. Never mind, it sounds like a personal problem to me.

    Please give it up on this procreation claptrap though, it's tiresome. I've never had children and never wanted children. I've got a number of friends that think children are the grandest things that ever happen to them and I've got an equal number of friends that feel just as I do about the 'dear little darlings'. And I've got a number of asexual friends as well as a few dear gay friends . Yeah you'd be surprised how many people actually have no interest in sex or close interpersonal relationships at all. But those aforementioned are all close friends not just acquaintances because I don't go nosing around or wondering what some one elses sexual habits are as I go through life.

    I still say you're looking for something beyond labels though. But have it your own way.

  • "Reading, Writing, and Rockets? The UN Discovers 20 Rockets Hidden At School In Gaza"   2 hours 55 min ago

    poly wrote: "Peace on Israeli terms means  Arabs giving up all claims to legal ownership of property under the control of Israel." - See more at: http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2014/07/reading-writing-and-rockets-un-discovers-20-rockets-hidden-school-gaza?page=1#new

    Wonder when you are going to show the same concern for the 100's of thousands of Jews driven from the Arab world after '49 and by the way the 100's of M. of dollars of property they left behind?

  • Does the powerful Paul Ryan feel empathy?   3 hours 2 sec ago

    i will work on trying to remove the password, I do not  know if i can, but i did take your comment and did post, thank you, you might have to get a google account