Recent comments

  • Rioting alternative: snowflake displays of racial solidarity all around town   13 hours 15 min ago

    So rs, would you honk twice if you saw a black man and a white woman holding up one of these signs?

    And if not, why not? What does your resistance say about you? And if you did choose to honk, how does that feel? No, you're not solving a problem directly. But you are getting a taste of what a post-racism America, an Inclusive America, would feel like. And if that feels good, won't that motivate you more to bring that about?

  • The world we're leaving for today's teens...   13 hours 21 min ago

    Amy Goodman on Democracy Now pointed out that the arrayed police powers stood between white and black Ferguson leaving the black community open to riot but protected the white community. Some of the broadcast video clearly show this and a (prohibited) drone-cam would have shown this strategy even more clearly.

  • The Big Picture & The Thom Hartmann Program "On Air" Questions or Comments for Thom?   13 hours 29 min ago

    Regarding the GOP star symbol Thom brings up often: I'm not inside the GOP mind, but I believe the star is actually a 'code' for the Free Mason Society. Please look up "Order of the Eastern Star" on Wikipedia to see the Star Symbol. Since the Society is invitation only, and a supposedly elite, secret organization, only FreeMasons will recognize the significance of this star symbol.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Eastern_Star  

    Great show!

  • Obama Assures The Latinization of America   13 hours 37 min ago
    Quote nimblecivet:

    I will agree that what I have seen of Mexican TV is not particularly inpiring. But then again, Mexicans don't center their culture around television.

    Tell that to my neighbor's wife who watches spanish telenovelas all day. And check out the Neilsen ratings and see all the spanish programs in the top 100 ratings.

  • Were officials in MO counting on rioting?   13 hours 42 min ago

    If no charges were filed, anybody with an IQ above 90 would have expected disturbances. Keep in mind Brown was unarmed but not innocent. He had stolen cigars and the officer observed them. He was walking down the middle of the street. He didn't follow the officers instructions. That doesn't mean he should be dead but these outcomes occur in dealings with police. In Houston, the last 260+ shootings by police have been ruled in policy. You can tease the dog but sometimes he gonna bite back. You can argue if police behavior is right or wrong, but until it changes-don't steal and listen to what they tell you.

  • response to ferguson decision   13 hours 47 min ago

    bandithecat: But what officer Wilson is claiming, and what some witnesses observed, was that MB was trying to attack Wilson, after MB had already hit Wilson in the head...and wrestled for the officer's gun...and the gun going off inside the car. MB had already instigated a life and death struggle when he did that. MB was not a frightened little teenager running away from a cop. He attacked and injured Wilson, which in itself could have been the cause of Wilson's inability to think straight or aim very well....if that's what it was.

    Hitting Wilson in the head could have been MB causing his own death. Had he not hit Wilson in the head and a frantic struggle taken place where the weapon was discharged, perhaps Wilson would have been able to think straight and let MB escape without shooting him. Just think of how loud that gun going off in the car would have been...ears ringing...blood everywhere...and after just having been hit in the head...? I'm NOT saying that Wilson WAS disoriented due to the blow to the head or ringing ears from the gun shot...or the pumped up adrenalin from the struggle...but it is possible. MB created his own problem when he attacked Wilson sitting in his car.

    And size matters! When an elephant is charging, you don't try to wrestle with it. If you have a gun, you shoot it. If MB had continued to run away, instead of turning around and charging Wilson then your quote from the SC would have made sense.

    There's nothing in that SC statement that says anything about when a life and death struggle is on-going, or when the policeman is in immediate danger from a a raging bull-elephant that had already attacked him once. And according to witnesses, MB was in the act of attacking again.

  • Were officials in MO counting on rioting?   13 hours 53 min ago

    Are you ignorant?

    2 officers per car-ever hear of budget considerations?

    Lousy shot-would Brown be anymore dead if all 12 bullets had hit? Btw-officers are trained to empty their guns if they fire.

    Findings released at 6 PM-wasn't it better to wait for kids and workers to be home than at 6 AM?

    Chest cameras are slowing gaining acceptance across the country-something good can come out this.

    All white jury-there were 3 blacks.

    Can posters please get their facts straight? You have some saying Brown was shot while fleeing and some say all bullets came from the front.

  • Obama Assures The Latinization of America   13 hours 53 min ago

    I will agree that what I have seen of Mexican TV is not particularly inpiring. But then again, Mexicans don't center their culture around television.

    Actually, there's a lot of potential for the right-wing and conservatives to bond with their Spanish-speaking kindred spirits. Just get together and drink a lot of beer and place bets on cock-fights and bear baiting. That will prove how not-liberal you are.

  • Obama Assures The Latinization of America   13 hours 56 min ago

    Changing U.S. policy to one of legal immigration from one of illegal immigration is a perfectly progressive position. However, it doesn't change the fact that the policies which this country chooses toward those who came here should be, from the progressive position, one where the basic rights and human considerations come first and the legal rationalizations second. Some people would prefer to claim that they were against illegal immigration all along, and so they don't feel any obligation to alter their push to deport. But if you read between the lines most of the people who are complaining are one and the same with those who were mostly fine with the status quo of outsourcing jobs, NAFTA, cheap consumer credit, etc.

  • Immigration Proclamation   13 hours 58 min ago
    Quote drc2:

    I will allow for not very bright, well-intended, low information sincerity rather than pure jerkdom, but the persistence with which some hold onto bad ideas when better information is presented does present a phenomenon. Is it really jerkdom or just how a lot of us invest in ideology?

    I try to think about any ideological boxes I might be inhabiting as I rethink the problems as they unfold. A good historian is always aware of methodology and how the data is selected to tell a story or work out an experiment. When did the story begin and who is telling it is part of the box problem.

    Why people are invested in their stories is also hard to parse with generalities. We know that those who went to war and lost buddies cannot accept the vanity of their sacrifice and the crappy reasons the wars were fought. I understand, but I also hear the Vets Against the Wars who have a healthier resolution of the dissonance.

    I have dealt with religion and obstinance about "my story, and I'm stickin' with it" when it is actively biting them on the ass, so I am short on explanation. Nonetheless, I find getting people to unpack their stories and tell me why they have interpreted things they way they have opens more useful conversation that debating the issues does.

    What you are ignoring is that the clearly stated multiple times over the years that this is outside the power of the office of President. To describe the critics of this action as "low information jerks" and "obstinate" is to ignore the facts.

    The President just acknowledged in a speech the other day that he in fact "changed the law".

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/politics/obama-hecklers-immigration-chicago/

  • Immigration Proclamation   14 hours 11 min ago
    Quote ulTRAX:
    Quote gumball:The constitution says that the President "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed"

    I asked banned user FO... I mean mavibobo the following so I'll ask you too.

    According to the sources below the GOP Congress can defund ObamaCare, what's now the law of the land. So are you saying the president will be breaking the law if ObamaCare is not fully implemented even without funding?

    http://www.conservativeusa.org/issues/defunding-obamacare-legal-and-cons...

    http://www.heritage.org/research/factsheets/2013/08/can-appropriations-b...

    That is an interesting question. The constitution does give congress the power to allocate funds but what if they do not fund the laws they pass? I would say that is a question for voters to decide when they go to elect their representatives.

    The term "faithfully" to me means the President must work to the best of his abilities to implement laws that are passed.

  • Are Killers Still In Charge Of Our Healthcare?   14 hours 18 min ago

    Palindromedary ~ Giving the camera the finger means nothing. White bikers do it all the time. Being photographed doing it is a counterculture gesture independent of race and nothing else. I agree that what transpired at the car is a critical element as to what happened. Personally, both the idea that Brown was pulled into the car by Wilson, and that Brown punched Wilson for no reason are absurd. I don't buy either story. I haven't seen or heard enough evidence either way. Regardless, even if Brown struck Wilson and ran that doesn't excuse Wilson for getting out of his car and chasing him if he really was afraid of the big bad black man. It certainly does not excuse Wilson for discharging his entire weapon. The only thing that would excuse Wilson is if it were proven in a court of law, before a jury, that Brown charged Wilson and continued to charge until the final shot was fired. That is all Mike Papantonio and I are asking for. A chance to cross examine the forensic experts. We just want to be sure that Wilson didn't unload a weapon on an unarmed kid standing still with his hands in the air. The whole world wants to know that. It would be easy to prove with blood splatter analysis in a courtroom and this issue is behind us. By denying us that trial, the justice department is painting the picture of a coverup. You know what a coverup is don't you? I personally cannot blame the African American community for being outraged. I'm outraged and you should be too. I also find it very interesting that the Governor out there declared a state of emergency and called out the National Guard long before the decision was ever reached. A very provocative act.

    One other thing, Palindromedary, kindly refrain from claiming you know what happened when you obviously don't. You're not clairvoyant are you? You were not there and the only eyewitness to what happened in the car was Wilson. If you buy that one sided story and use it to justify his subsequent behavior you are really displaying a lack of open mindedness which is critical into getting to the truth. The only thing that is going to stop these riots and attacks are the truth and justice. You are standing in the way of that.

    One thing we know for sure was that Wilson was pissed off when he got out of his car. Wilson was about the same size as Brown; and, trained in self defense. The idea that a man like that with a gun in his hand who chases an unarmed kid is suddenly going to become terrified for his own life amuses me. The fact that you believe that story astonishes me. The only question I have is if Wilson shot Brown out of fear; or, out of anger and hatred. The simply logical fact of the matter remains that if he really was afraid for his life he should have stayed in his car, called for backup, and waited for them to arrive. The fact that he didn't sheds doubt on his story and warrants a trial. I see no other way of looking at it. Thank God there will be a civil trial. Just like with OJ, maybe we will get the truth out of the civil action.

    PS Happy Thanksgiving, buddy!

  • Were officials in MO counting on rioting?   14 hours 19 min ago
    Quote douglaslee:If someone is pulling a gun on you would you not try to wrestle it away? Or put your hand up to deflect it as it fires? (thus the bullet in Brown's thumb)

    Wilson wasn't just "someone", he was a cop! And if a cop ever pulls a gun on me, I would not be stupid enough to try to take it away from him. In the first place, I wouldn't be doing something stupid like slugging a police officer, like MB did, and so there would be no reason for a police officer to pull his gun on me.

    I think MB's attitude, perhaps amplified by the MJ he may have been smoking, led him down the wrong path into making a hasty, irrational response that was fed by the fact that he knew he was big and tough and that no pip-squeak of a cop was going to tell him what to do.

    By the way, the photos that they always show of MB look like it was one of when he was younger...why do they show this photo and not these?

    http://clashdaily.com/2014/08/thug-life-leaked-pics-michael-brown-show-r...

  • Rioting alternative: snowflake displays of racial solidarity all around town   14 hours 21 min ago

    While you're mulling over Drc's post, reread post #2 with the same thought.

    If it were as easy as a few posters and/or marches this battle would have been over long ago. Racism or if you prefer, white privilege, is so endemic so institutionalized in this country that most people don't even realize just how bigoted or, if you prefer slanted they are and how much they support those institutional policies. Even as they 'say' equal treatment.

    So yeah whatever, it's a nice thought and all that. Beep beep. Toot toot. Feel better?

    Now actually do something about it while you're dodging that car or beer bottle flying at you.

  • response to ferguson decision   14 hours 30 min ago

    This is from a Supreme Court decision:

    "It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, non-dangerous suspect by shooting him dead."

    -- Justice Byron White, Tennessee v. Garner, 1984

  • Obama Assures The Latinization of America   14 hours 34 min ago

    This has nothing to do with my supposed hatred of Latinos. Like I said, my neighbor and many friends are Latino. I would be saying the same if it were 12 million African Pygmies or Swiss in the country illegally-though the Swiss would likely choose to assimilate more.

    Check out this article which will show how political Obama's actions are. Latinos seem to be in lockstep about amnesty. People on this board are acting like Kansas people-voting against their own interests. This constant influx of low skilled-low wage employees holds down wages. These same people hurt our economy when they send money back to Mexico. Would the tax lovers on this board be OK with a money transfer tax? These low wage people are going to use more social services than they pay for. When they get SS#s, there goes the excuse they are paying into a system they won't benefit from. Maybe you need 1M farm workers-there is no excuse for the other11 million.

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-latino-poll-201...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271455/Revealed-How-immigrants-...

  • The world we're leaving for today's teens...   14 hours 45 min ago

    Maybe Darren Wilson could be prosecuted for perjury.

  • Rioting alternative: snowflake displays of racial solidarity all around town   14 hours 47 min ago

    Hey drc2, it's great to have your views in this conversation and I hope everybody reads your reply No. 4 to my original post. You bring out many valid points about the institutionalized racism, the network to protect it, and the divisive nature of the police response.

    Let's face it; those who ramped up violence and looting at Ferguson and supporting protests in Oakland and elsewhere are playing right into the GOP's hand. These actions of violence from protesters, whether they emerge only from the fringes of those angry in the streets or not, put a generalized label on the entire crowd that allows the ignorant and uniformed to throw a blanket over all the protesters and consider them as a group to be as vile as their very worst elements. And my guess is that the violence came not from those that live in Ferguson but those who came from elsewhere to carry out pre-conceived acts. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of those individuals were paid to do so by the Koch brothers to further their goal of creating a Divided States of America where hatred is used to support billionaire goals by delivering the GOP more power. Racism is power for the Republican Party, and so I'm convinced that billionaires and the GOP puppetmasters pull every string to prevent every indictment of a police officer who kills an unarmed African American. The injustice that results only builds division, because the backlash to that injustice is what politicians point at to raise money for their future GOP campaigns.

    With all that said, drc2, I ask that you please put yourself mentally on that street corner holding one of the signs I described with a man or woman of another race holding the other end. How might it feel after the fifth "beebeep" you hear as you instinctively give the honker a thumbs up and a peace sign?

    That's what I'd like everyone to experience. It's not about ignoring the travesties. It's about finding that place in yourself and sharing that elation that comes from a momentary glimpse of that future where racism is minimized to insignificance, and its purveyors marginalized as dinosaurs within a society that has left them behind.

  • response to ferguson decision   14 hours 49 min ago

    Hartmann's three day long denegration of the police officers is shameful and disgusting, but very expected. He has few of the facts, and continues to make repeated derogatory comments directed at officer Wilson with no proof or facts whatsoever.

    Any efforts toward continual race baiting seems to be the norm among socialists and leftie radio talking heads.

  • Climate Change 2014, 116 pages   14 hours 52 min ago

    At Nature Bats Last I just ran across this Thom Hartmann clip from November 19 (a week ago) where he's interviewing Dahr Jamall on two topics, the first being accelerating climate change. It takes up about the first seventeen minutes:

    Climate Disruption Depression....

    Dahr Jamall paraphrasing Guy McPherson: "If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while you count your money"

    Although he agrees with Guy McPherson's gloomy take on the looming 6th mass extinction, Dahr also brings up what he calls "the X Factor." That is, that we as a species have not been present during any of the past extinction scenarios, and that we do not know for sure what a result of a concerted attempt to end the global economy processes that are causing these accelerating changes could actuallly look like. Just as our economic system inventions can destroy global ecosystems -- and are doing so at an increasing rate concurrent with our hocky puck rise in population -- we are also a species that can learn from nature to create ecosystem designs that heal, as such techniques as permaculture practices around the world have been demonstrating.

    He then argues we are morally obliged to do everything we can. I call it doing what my heart tells me is the right thing to do. As he points out, Thom himself might call it having hope.

    But there are so many questions... One that haunts me every day, if civilization collapses without going through an intentional dismantling process, what will become of the 400 and some odd nuclear power plants that have sprung up since WWII? Each one takes the technology and expertise of an in-place and viable civilized political and bureaucratic structure to safely and properly dismantle, and each will take many years to accomplish. This is not a guess, it's a known. I can't help but imagine 400 and some uncontrolled Fukushima's taking place, many in the midst of some of the most important global aquatic and land-based ecosystems.

  • Are Killers Still In Charge Of Our Healthcare?   14 hours 54 min ago

    I usually agree with most everything Mike Papantonio says...but not it this case! MB attacked Wilson sitting in his squad car. MB bullied the convenience store operator. They found MJ in MB's blood. He was a huge bully that, in my opinion, was on the path of possibly doing something much worse down the line. His attitude sucked and anyone who attacks a cop like that shows right off the bat that he was a loose cannon ready to hurt someone else. By the way, they keep showing a picture of poor little MB, innocent teen, but what about these photos?
    http://clashdaily.com/2014/08/thug-life-leaked-pics-michael-brown-show-r...

    In this discussion, where the guy was white, he was involved in a hit-and-run accident and just kept driving...he wouldn't even stop for the police when they tried to pull him over. He was obviously a danger to the community.

    http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/bluedog-294/blog/2014/11/man-charged-b...

  • Are Killers Still In Charge Of Our Healthcare?   14 hours 56 min ago

    Reply to #11: Kerry, your long, painful story deserves a response. Apparently you have been disabled by the quackery that seems to have run rampant in our medical system. This is one of the ugliest manifestations of a system corrupted by profit motives. Rather than becoming better healthcare practitioners and living up to their pledge to “do no harm”, these quacks are seeing to it they don’t have to pay any consequences for their malpractice, and the lives they damage and destroy along the way. Your ordeal sounds horrific and is not something I would wish on my worst enemy (except maybe Dick Cheney or George W. Bush!). If there is anyone whose story is worthy of being told to Congress, yours sounds like a strong candidate. However in light of the outcome of the recend midterm elections, I reckon it would fall on deaf ears.

    Beyond that, it’s hard to know what to say to someone in your situation, who continues to suffer so hideously. If I were you, I’d keep up the fight to obtain those medical records; they are your property more than anyone else’s. Those hacks & quacks have no right to withhold them from you. It really does seem like they've got something to hide, which gives you ample reason to pursue this.

    I wonder if there are any support groups for people like you who've been harmed by medical malpractice. I hope and pray you have family and friends providing the emotional support you so richly deserve. - AIW

  • Immigration Proclamation   15 hours 7 min ago
    Quote gumball:The constitution says that the President "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed"

    I asked banned user FO... I mean mavibobo the following so I'll ask you too.

    According to the sources below the GOP Congress can defund ObamaCare, what's now the law of the land. So are you saying the president will be breaking the law if ObamaCare is not fully implemented even without funding?

    http://www.conservativeusa.org/issues/defunding-obamacare-legal-and-cons...

    http://www.heritage.org/research/factsheets/2013/08/can-appropriations-b...

  • Were officials in MO counting on rioting?   15 hours 8 min ago

    This is a reply to #37.

    Mdhess, thank you for putting links to these recordings on this thread. I have been hearing my black friends talking about how sad and frustrating what happened in Ferguson has been for them, as well as for the entire African American community. I have empathized wholeheartedly, and I wish this world was such, that every person alive would feel that empathy as well, instead of closing their hearts to it.

    Nothing touches a human heart and a human mind as emotionally as words to music, written and performed by such talented people, telling the stories of their souls. It amazes me that ANYONE could think of blacks as being in ANY way inferior.

    On a more immediately practical level, I would also want Chris Rock's real suggestions, presented here as comedy, to be watched and by every child, teen, and young adult of every ethnic origin here in the USA now, so long as police brutality is accepted, and even encouraged, by our government.

  • Were officials in MO counting on rioting?   15 hours 10 min ago
    Quote ChicagoMatt:

    And you base your opinion on what exactly? Please explain your insights into the character of black youth. That should be interesting. Let's hear about their supposed "lack of intelligence, their lack of moral character, their irrationality and shallow values, their incapacity for judging their own place in society, their cluelessness about injustice and what democracy should look like, what justice might feel like if justice and equality actually existed in their town, and all they care about is having a good time, fulfilling their savage hearts..."

    Own it. Show it all. Let it all hang out...

    My insights to all youth - not just black youth - because all variety of youth were there - come from my Master's in Education, with a focus on child psychology, and a decade of experience in education.

    Big Whoop. That just proves that intelligence and education is no guarantee against idiocy.

    Quote ChicagoMatt:

    They took the effort to go there with molotov cocktails, crowbars, etc... most were from out of town.

    You don't know who did the damage, what they brought to the protest, nor do you know how many came from out of town (and so what if they all did—this is a national offense against justice and deserves a national response). For all you know, there may also have been agent provocateurs, or the police or the KKK starting fires. Such operations have happened before, and it's entirely possible in this case as well, especially given the racism of the white power structure within Ferguson.

    As has been reported, the police and National Guard DID NOT PROTECT BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS AND CITY BLOCKS FROM DAMAGE. They only served the white areas of the town.

    Your suggestion that had the grand jury indicted Darren Wilson and set a course for a jury trial —that is, had they served justice— young Blacks still would have rioted disregards decades of injustice inflicted on Blacks, disregards the daily humiliations, insults to the notions of humanity and dignity, ignores assaults against equality, all of which serve a pure and nearly irresistible motive for violence.

    It disregards the fact that young people raised with love and justice DO NOT RIOT, certainly for no good reason. To say they will do such violent things, simply based on your dim view of teenagers, is insane, plain and simple.

    Quote ChicagoMatt:

    Any large group of young people, of any race, make bad decisions if there are a few in the crowd bent on causing trouble.

    "Any large group of young people...?" Talk about unfounded stereotypes. No— some young people may behave badly and make bad decisions under some circumstances, but certainly not all.

    Quote ChicagoMatt:

    You really think that anything would have made that crowd disperse and go home wthout causing trouble?

    Yes: Justice served —Darren Wilson indicted on murder or manslaughter charges— would have had such a calming effect on those crowds, even you might be moved to reconsider your assumptions. Well, there may have been riotous laughter and celebration, but no violence. I can promise you that.

    Ever hear the slogan, No Justice, No Peace? It's the truth. Regard it.

Currently Chatting

Community Archive

The world we're leaving for today's teens...

Without immediate global action on climate change, today's teenagers will be forced to live with the consequences of our inaction. The World Bank has issued their third report of climate change, and it says that global temperatures could rise by as much as 4 degrees Celsius by the time today's teens hit their 80th birthday.