Daily Topics - Wednesday February 24th 2010
By Louise
Quote: The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women created for men. ~Alice Walker
Hour One - When is the tea party movement going to wake up to the fact that they're being used by racists, big corporations and the rich? Mark Williams Conservative talk radio host and spokesperson for the Tea Party Express www.marktalk.com
Plus...Is the right wing tea party movement being take over by corporate backed racists? with Mark Potok Intelligence Project at the Southern Poverty Law Center www.splcenter.org
Hour Two - Can we force the administration to embrace a public option? Stephanie Taylor Co-Founder, Progressive Change Campaign Committee www.boldprogressives.org
Hour Three - Why do fundamentalists think God loves us more than our cats & dogs? Wesley J. Smith, author, "A Rat is a Pig is a Dog is a Boy: The Human Cost of the Animal Rights Movement" www.discovery.org/p/13
Upcoming Events with Thom Hartmann:
Friday, March 5th - 6 to 8pm, Denver, CO - AM 760 presents Thom and David Sirota taking opposite sides "Is it Time to Abandon the Democratic Party?" Event is sold out but you can still enter to win tickets!! Visit AM760.net for details.
Comments
#2
Pigeons! Yes, we had pigeons in our barn loft, we have seen baby pigeons. We miss our pigeons. Anyone who wants to get rid of their pigeons, please send them to us. We'll take our chances on some of them being aliens. Central Nebraska is a healthy environment for pigeons.
#3
The character of a country can be learned by how they treat their animals - Gandhi The lab animal industry in America is a sham. None of this is needed in herbology and traditional chinese/ ayurvedic mediinces, for which I find are superior to Western Medicine.
#4
Did someone say....Deep Ecology?
http://environmental-activism.suite101.com/article.cfm/elfland-lessons-i...
#5
Yay! Traveling Wilburys!
#6
Gloria Steinham said - Its not the victim, its the act of the perpetrator that is wrong. Carving a human is as bad as carving an animal because it is the killing and carving that is wrong, the action itself that is wrong - not - who you do it to!
#7
re: the topics of embracing the public option and animal rights
maybe we could get the public option if we showed a few dogs or cats or hamsters dying because of lack of health care. that usually seems to motivate people to take action.
sadly, people seem to care more about the suffering of animals more than about the well being of the 40,000 humans who will die this year in america due to lack of health care.
#8
Thom, you blew it. Again.
I think about 50% of the time you have rightwingers on your show (which is far too often IMHO), you let them outmaneuver you. This morning with Mark Williams, you let it happen big time.
You mentioned to Williams, on-air, that he called President Obama an "Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug and racist-in-chief." This is what Williams wrote on his blog and what Anderson Cooper successfully dissected last November (video and transcripts are up at HuffPo, crooksandliars, and other sites).
After some back-and-forth, Williams asked you "is there something wrong with being an Indonesian and a Muslim?" In your response, you veered off into a discussion of how these are dog-whistle words to tea partiers, "frightened" Americans, etc., etc. I don't remember the exact words you used. But presto, with that exchange Williams maneuvered you into appearing as an elitist who "didn't think very highly of the American people", as I believe Williams's rejoinder was.
At that point I tuned to another station, because I just couldn't stand it any more.
Bravo, Thom. You took a blatant racist on your show and allowed him to maneuver you into painting yourself as an elitist, and you allowed him to derail the discussion from focusing on the wingnuttery and racism of his comments.
Leave aside for a moment the fact that both allegations against the President are false. You and I both know there's nothing wrong with anyone being either an Indonesian or a Muslim. But Williams ***obviously*** believes there ***is*** something wrong with that. And you allowed him to get away with claiming that he was fine with it. He became the equality advocate, and you became the elitist and bigot, because you didn't pin him down to admitting it was HIS belief, not yours, that there was something wrong with being either, or both. You didn't pin him down into admitting that, in the context of his language ("Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug and racist in chief"), he CLEARLY meant the terms "Indonesian Muslim" as a slur against the President. And that's all you had to say. You could have asked Williams something like: "C'mon, Mark. Are you going to sit here and tell me with a straight face that when you wrote that the President was 'Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug and racist in chief' you actually intended the words Indonesian Muslim as a COMPLIMENT? Or even as something neutral?"
You do this way too much, Thom. You let the wingers on your show get away with far too much. I love listening to most of your show, but segments like these want to make me throw my radio out the window. Not because of what *they* say, Thom, but because of what **you** let them get away with on air.
#9
Thom, I REALLY would like to hear your vision of what a "progressive society" would look like. Instead you weaseled out by jumping on the guy's comment about "dancing on Cheney's grave." Have you ever provided such a vision? I don't recall hearing or reading of it.
My vision would be the re-imaging of the early 1970s when the US economy was last in balance to this decade with updates for technology (the affordable stuff of course). It should be a simple easy going leisure society (don't need to work 80 or even 40 hours a week that's just a scam of the feudalists). IOW, living simple so others may simply live.
#10
Good to hear Thom spanking Wesley J. Smith. People should be reminded that he's a creationist, a Fellow with the anti-science Discovery Institute.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2005/03/strange-bedfellows-commenter-ken-...
#11
A few weeks back I posted a comment about privatizing Social Security that actually was picked as the post of the day. I've expanded on the subject and posted on OpenSalon. Check it out if you like.
http://open.salon.com/blog/charles_in_oh/2010/02/24/eric_cantor_is_a_dou...
Yes, Eric Cantor is a douche bag.
#12
You want to see how it's done, watch Anderson Cooper do it, together with David Gergen. They took Williams apart and made him dig his hole deeper, then shined the light into the hole. Transcript at CNN.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/14/acd.02.html
WILLIAMS: Well, I have no way of knowing for whom these people voted. I know I did speak across the country with quite a few people who did vote for Barack Obama and were very disappointed in the change that they are getting. It's not they had hope for.
Sour grapes? These were working stiffs. These are people who pay the bills; these are the people who are being called Nazis and mobsters by their government. These are people that are being told that there's something is wrong with them. Because they embrace the Constitutional form of government we have.
COOPER: But wait Mark, you're actually the one who called President Obama Nazi.
WILLIAMS: I didn't call Barack Obama a Nazi.
COOPER: Yes, he's on your list, on your Web site of like 21st century Nazis. You have his name.
WILLIAMS: We've got the philosophy of fascism and national socialism at work here. Of course we do.
COOPER: No, no but you have the president's name, although it's a derivation that's not his actually name, it's a name it's kind of a negative.
WILLIAMS: Mubarak Hussein Obama.
COOPER: Right, that's what's you call him on your Website. You're the one who's using the term Nazi.
WILLIAMS: Sure. I call him Mubarak Hussein Obama. And he's a man who is sitting in the office right now, taking the seeds of socialism planted by George W. and fertilizing them and watering them until they go into full bloom.
[...]
COOPER: But I mean, Mark, what you're saying makes sense to me here when I'm hearing what you're saying. But then I read on your blog, you say -- you call the president an Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug and a racist in chief.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
COOPER: Is that the kind of...
WILLIAMS: That's the way he's behaving.
COOPER: But I mean...
WILLIAMS: I mean, if he cares to be...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Do you believe he's Indonesian? Do you believe he's a Muslim? Do you really believe he's a welfare thug?
WILLIAMS: He's certainly acting like it.
GERGEN: You think he's a racist in chief? Racist in chief? Is that what you called him? That's unbelievable. It's unbelievable,
WILLIAMS: Until he embraces the whole country -- what else can I conclude? He and guys like James are totally, totally isolating the rest of this country; if you're a working-class American, then you know, that's it.
CARVILLE: I tell you, if you're an American, and you like what you're hearing from this guy, if you like celebrating a man's death, go over there with these people.
C'mon, Thom. If Cooper, Carville and Gergen can do that, you should be able to do at least as well. You can do better than this.
#13
Thom, how 'bout a compromise, instead of experimenting on animals lets support lab testing neo-cons (there neither human or animal).
#14
Guest request!
JAN 16, 2010 podcast from go vegan radio
listen to this week's program for guest KEN DAMRO, author of "A Northwoodsman's Guide to Everyday Compassion". KEN is a rehabilitated, reformed hunter, NOW VEGAN!!!
http://www.goveganradio.com/veg/1003/Listen_to_Past_Shows.htm
#15
Hunting: if natural systems were in balance, there would be predators. Many wild animals are over populated and those who become sick die slow painful deaths, those who do not find food starve.
This does not explain the hunting of apex predators, but it is a reason for hunting some animals.
#16
Sure Bob, natural systems are not in balance, but human over population eclipses any wild animal over population.
So do we start allowing human hunting? I might apply for a hunters license for banksters and brokers season. ;-)
#17
“The Bible is black and white.”
I have a copy where the words of Jesus are printed in read. If Christians lived by those words and no others, we'd all be better off.
#18
In this country, imho, bullets are shot by Health Insurers and unregulated polluters with the resulting deaths documented daily.
Maybe you could incorporate as one of those?
Human overpopulation is a problem - it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
#19
I've just signed up at the Justice Robert Jackson Steering Committee website and would encourage others like minded to do so as well. http://lawsnotmen.org
Lawyers and Journalists' Group Sees No End in Sight to the Controversy over Bush "Torture Lawyers"
February 23, 2010
The Justice Robert Jackson Steering Committee, a group of lawyers, journalists and advocates formed in the fall of 2008 to pursue the prosecution of top Bush administration officials for alleged war crimes while in office, is both greatly concerned and guardedly hopeful by the recent release of 2 different assessments from inside the Department of Justice on whether John Yoo and Jay Bybee, the lawyers who crafted "torture memos" inside the Bush administration's Office of Legal Counsel, engaged in professional misconduct.
#20
@Gerald Socha - thanks for the Ben Salmon reference. It inspired me to start a wiki bio - perhaps you could improve it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Salmon
Tag! YOU'RE IT!!!
#21
Quote of the day submission:
"Dick Cheney - Staying Alive With The Best Health care YOUR MONEY Can Buy!"
-Dallas Taylor
St. Paul, MN...Land of Pawlenty's Victims
#22
rewinn, thank you for the wikipedia reference! I should use wiki more often.
Thom, I do not own a gun; I do not like guns; and I have never shot a gun. I do not say a person should not hunt but I do believe that a person should limit the killing of game life. One game life every so often to satisfy a person's taste for certain game, such as venison, pheasant, and/or duck.
#23
I have been thinking, if you all go vegan, what happens to the animals which were
used for food. Do they go extinct? Their existence for the most part has depended on them being raised for the pot. No one will want to raise them for the pleasure alone.
Are you ready to let another species die out? Something to think about.
#24
I know a lady that keeps chickens as pets and will absolutely not sell one to you if she thinks you are going to raise it to eat. The eggs are probably ok, I think she's pro-choice ;)
#25
There are no comments made past 2:05p. Is there a second page to today's blog? I can't find 3 of my posts.
#26
hey DALLAS: are you the musician who played with CSNY?
#27
As a Progressive, I love Thom’s show. While I consider him a genuine Progressive on economic matters... willing to challenge the basic assumptions of our market system, he seems to be caught in the middle of claiming to support democracy, talking favorably about social democracies in Europe... but seemingly incapable of mounting a serious challenge to the assumptions of our political system. It leads to some serious cognitive dissonance as we heard in today’s show.
Thom was saying he was in favor of “democracy” in the Senate as if 51% of votes in the Senate was “democratic”. In reality because the Senate represents states not people, that 51% majority can represent as little as 18% of the US population. Here are some other numbers. Depending on the stars line up the following is possible:
Senators representing a mere 11% of the population can block any legislation in the Senate using the filibuster.
Senators representing a mere 24% of the population can break any filibuster.
Senators representing about 30% of the population can ratify treaties.
If Thom TRULY believed in democracy he’d be calling for sweeping reforms of ALL anti-democratic features of our Constitution… the Senate, the EC, the amendment process, and judicial and treaty ratification.
Reforming the Senate is improbable given the reform-proof nature of our Constitution. But perhaps there’s a back door… using Senate rules to weight the vote of any senator to ½ of the population of their state. Read more here:
http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/2010/02/reforming-anti-democrati...
Of course this would do nothing to bring other needed reforms to our system… such as proportional representation that could break up our dysfunctional if not braindead two-party system. As a Progressive I can vote FOREVER and never be represented for my beliefs in Washington.
Maybe his on-air views have little to do with his REAL beliefs about democracy. Maybe it has more to do with his running a successful radio program and afraid of losing sponsors. After all, to question the antidemocratic assumptions that underlie our federal government is to question the moral legitimacy of our system.
As for the missing posts... I posted them to the wrong day's blog.
#28
Hello Thom, I called earlier today and was unable to answer the rest of the question related to hunting as we were short on time. You asked me if I felt crappy after shooting an animal. In short, I do, however I also feel thankful for the opportunity given me to harvest the wonderful creature god created. A mix of emotions bombard your head when you harvest an animal that is very difficult to explain. There is a feeling in taking a life that gives you a deep respect for the very life you take, a sacred, spiritual, connection with the animal that only a hunter can understand that is why I am sharing this with you and your viewers/ listeners. Most of the hunters I know share this very feeling and it ultimately contributes to the character of the individual as it gives them the utmost respect and value for life. With every animal I have harvested im my lifetime I felt thankful for the opportunity given to me to provide nourishment for my family and many other needy families in my community. I am not a killer I am a hunter there is a big difference. You had mentioned on the program as hunting being a sport. For me it is not a sport it is a way of life. I understand it is not a way of life for everyone and I respect that. Also most hunters I know share a good sense of ethics and truly value our enviornment. Hunters have greatly contributed to the reintroduction of species such as the rocky mountain elk not to mention our own deer population here in Virginia has grown leaps and bounds since I was a child this is due in part to good management and contributions from hunters. Being all this said, I do not feel humans are exceptional on this earth. All creatures have their place to inhabit the earth. Thom I would like to thank you for your viewpoints and all the good you have done in your lifetime. I feel a little more complete knowing there is hope for our country and way of life as we know it and feel fortunate to have discovered you and your program.
#29
A day late, I know, but I thought you might find it interesting that the city of Beverly Hills has issued a statement that denounced the comments made by Lauren Ashley. Turns out, the city of Beverly Hills does not sponsor any beauty pageant, for starters, and more importantly, they specifically condemned her statements. See link below:
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/02/24/20593?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BoxTurtleBulletin+(Box+Turtle+Bulletin)&utm_content=My+Yahoo
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Some fundamentalists think that god gave us the animals and the land and that man can hurt, kill and destroy it all. Burn baby burn. It's all the same kill baby, drill baby, kill baby, drill baby.