Young People in Hard Right's Crosshairs
By Thom Hartmann A...
The war against young people is continuing.
The old hard right, the ossified and billionaire hard right has now put not just progressive talk radio but young people in their crosshairs. I mentioned David Hogg in my last blog - his father's a retired FBI agent and this guy with Gateway Pundit, Wintrich, also uses an edited YouTube video of Hogg having some difficulty answering questions for a taped interview as evidence that Hogg is "heavily coached" on lines and is merely reciting his script. Of course, there's no evidence to support that claim.
And then he writes...
"Why would the child of an FBI agent be used as a pawn for anti-Trump rhetoric and anti-gun legislation?"
Wait a minute, right-wing so-called news site, are you saying that when a young person speaks out about politics that they're being manipulated? Really? My recollection is that my generation back in the 60s and early 70s literally ended the Vietnam War which killed over 56,000 Americans, about as many people as in the United States are killed in just two years by guns.
Maybe these kids can be the generation that ends this war on America, the NRA's war on America, the gun manufacturers' war on America, the Republicans' war on America. This from Think Progress...
"The article is also being promoted by Bradley Blakeman, a member of the George W. Bush administration, lobbyist and frequent television pundit."
He says...
"This kid is a shill. He bragged about the number of interviews he is doing and is playing to the camera."
Yeah, like you don't. It's amazing. And then they're going after Emma González and Delaney Tarr and Cameron Kasky. The entire article attacks these students for smiling in the photo. The article's entitled "Student School Massacre Survivors and CBS Reporter Party Like Rock Stars" but there's no evidence of any partying. That's incredible, it's just incredible. How despicable.
Comments
#2
Outback
I stand by what l say/ believe...
And lm not " hysterical" about any of this.
Im a "proud" gun owner.. Who would be willing to make "some" sacrifices for the greater good!
Are you?!?
#3
Adios HC, Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! You can take DeathRey, Kend and all the other rightwing nazi/fascist, greedy bigoted trolls with you for all I care.
But, alas, its not my site and I'm sure Thom loves having as many as possible on the site. Oddly enough, all these rightwing trolls are doing him a favor by posting here. In the world of the internet, there is no such thing as a bad hit. And to be honest, Thom would probably rather have HC on this site than an embarrasing potty mouth like myself.
Since you love to cozy up with the right-wingers, what else was I to think? Its not a football game, it's war. Maybe you haven't noticed, but Republicans have declared war on our American democracy. True, they won't come out and say it, in fact they love wrapping themselves in the flag and questioning everyone else's patriotism. But there actions show otherwise. Ever since Nixon initiated the Southern Strategy, the oligarchs and evangelicals have joined forces to sidestep and undermine the Constitution in an effort to impose a fascist and religious agenda as the rule of law. A large part of their strategy is to divide and conquer and surprisingly they have been abetted by leftwing progressives like Nader and Stein, resulting in the last two Republican Presidents losing the popular votes but winning the Electoral College. Not that there wasn't a lot of help from gerrymandering, Fox News, voter suppression, and good ole Russian meddling
Over and over again on this very site I have laid much of the blame for the rightwing takeover at the feet of Barak Obama for his lack of accountability of the Bush administration and that lack of accountability, in my opinion, resulted in Democrats losing the congress in 2010 and the senate in 2012 and many of the 2016 elections. But I've been over this again and again before.
Interesting that you bring up Glen Greenwald. Greenwald has squandered much of his credibility with his denials of Russia meddling in the election, and sadly by association has somewhat tarnished the reputation one of the greatest progressive reporters of all time, Amy Goodman.
Because of your obsessive Hillary hating, you want us to believe that there is little difference between the parties. A theory disproved by the election of Goerge W. Bush.
But we can see, hear and read and we have seen the differences for ourselves and though both are flawed, the differences are lightyears apart. Just because Bernie wasn't able to waltz into the Democratic party, a party that he had never really supported, and declare himself the head of the party, you want to divide us, insuring Republican domination. Again, I've been over and over this territory again and again. But since we can't have utopia, apparently, we can't have anything.
Maybe Hilary is far from perfect but she has for the last 40 years been the most investigated person this country has ever known and no one has been able to lay a glove on her. True, you can troll the internet and find no shortage of support for believing any number of Hillary atrocities. Hell, I'm sure I can troll the internet and find irrefutable evidence that proves the world is flat.
So because DeathRey is a competitive bang bang shoot'em-up cowboy suffering from arrested development, we have to endure one school massacre after another. Personally, I have no use for guns at all, but we can see by gun owners like Jeff and others on this site, that there can be reasonable compromise with responsible gun owners.
Personally though, I'm sick of this Second Amendment bullshit. Where the fuck is this "well regulated militia" that all you fucking gun nuts belong to? Must be the NRA. But as usual, the only way Republicans can justify their actions is by creating their own definitions….you know, like crazy people do!
#4
HC (If that last was directed at me): I claim that "lawful owners" are not the issue, where I expand the definition to include owners of "assault weapons" that have obtained the weapon legally AND who abide by the law. So what's the point?
#5
If l ever do need to protect my home/castle from an intruder... I'd much rather have my Remington 870 with its 8 shot tube extension...
Always loaded with buckshot, slug, buckshot, slug, etc..
Way more effective than any "assault weapon"!!
I truly hope l never need to...
#6
Dana Loesch NRA Spokeperson on the Sunday circuit said that the NRA will accept no retrictions or cut backs on guns. Since they have the Republican Party paid off that is the way that it will remain. Next mass murder is scheduled by the Republican Party.
Interseting she claimed that her children go to a school that the teachers are all armed. New Charter School I guess. Although Wikipedia says that her and her husband home school their kids and 1 is 19. Let's not forget that there were 4 highly trained policemen in the parking lot of that school hiding behind cars. At Columbine a policeman ran from the scene and it took 4 hours for the police to enter the building.
#7
My point is the right truly believes the government and the left want to take all their guns...true or not they believe it. You will not suceed in getting them to be rational about reforms any more that the left will be rational about DACA because they don't believe the right is doing it for the right reasons....therfore the standoff will just go on and on.
No I'm not part of the NRA, No I don't have an assault rifle.
" A house divided against it's self will not stand".
What do you think the Russians think about us tearing ourselves apart??? As well as the rest of the world? I think it makes us look pretty damm weak, and ripe for attacks.
I really don't care what politican you can name they all start the morning with the appointed talking point...so tired of there contrived BS not one of them has an original thought, they are all scripted. BY WHOM??? FOR WHAT END????
#8
Outback,
No not directed at anyone .
Stopgap,
I've said the same about the Bushes, Cheney,Rumsfield, Ollie North, Regan...et al. as I have about Hillary.
It just didn't suit you to hear me.
On Regan and the disaster of throwing the mentally ill in the street...it was just plain sick....yet so was the way the mentally ill were being treated in the assylums.
Why is it when we get a solution it's as bad as the problem?
#9
Jefflisse: I can't say I'm a "proud gun owner". I belonged to the NRA 40 years ago because I believed they did some good in educating kids on safe practices, etc. I haven't been a member since. To tell you the truth, guns scare the hell out of me, though I'm very proficient with both hand guns and rifles. I'd rather see every last one on earth go up in a whiff of smoke, right after all the nukes are destroyed. I have never been a hunter because I can't justify it on the grounds of needing the protein. I do enjoy target shooting at the range (I have enough acreage I could do it here but am considerate enough to honor my neighbors' P&Q). And when I'm way up in the woods where there's no risk of injuring anyone, that is, where there's a backstop and clear field of view, I have to confess I enjoy mounting a 30 round clip to my AK-47 an making a tin can dance at 50 yards, but that's just playing. Yes, I pick up the can and take it home. So what's that make me? A "gun nut". I own a variety of weapons for several different reasons. First of all, and as totally unlikely as this is, if some burly 23 year old on angel dust wielding a baseball bat were to kick down my door in the middle of the night, I'd much rather have my 9mm semi automatic pistol handy, because my own baseball bat likely wouldn't hack it. So call it "peace of mind". And as I observed here recently, living in a remote area is likely a safer place to live in that even the dim witted are aware that most households have an armed occupant. So am I now "a paranoid gun nut"? I like to think I'm just prepared, though I hope I never have to even point a gun at anyone, much less pull the trigger. And finally, I take a view of the Second Amendment that I know is not shared with many people here. I believe the Founders believed that The People might some day have to defend themselves, by force of arms, from a despotic government. I live not that far from Ruby Ridge, and it impressed me. There is also the very real possibility, given the great fissures that have been dividing us as a people that anarchy, following a total economic meltdown, is not out of the question. Enter, my AK and a couple other assorted 'combat style" weapons. Ok, so now I'm a "paranoid gun nut with a militia mentality". No, not at all. I'm a peace loving, liberal leaning thoughtful person that would never think of using a weapon unless put in a corner;. And if that should ever happen, regardless of the scenario, I want the option of going down swinging as hard as I can, not on my knees. So in that regard, I AM proud.
#10
Funny thing about all our laws...you could wrap the pages around the world a couple of times. Yet when ever a politican is caught red handed at anything, and I mean anything they come out and say yes yes it was morally wrong but unfortunatly it's not illegal...
how does that happen???
#11
Outback I totally agree. But then I live on 80 acres.
I usually have lots of deer here , racoons, skunks...but nothing the last 2 years since the fires drove the mountian lions and bobcat here.
Having a dog is an issue to as they pack up an threaten the ranchers livestock.
Most of my neighbors have dogs and I listen to their dogs to get a feel for what's going on.
#12
About the dogs,
That too is a bloody tradjety when the rancher has to shoot the dog and the injured livestock!
#13
HC: yes that's unfortunate about the dogs. From time to time there are dog packs here that chase the deer. I blame the dog owners for that.
#14
As most (some.. a few..a very few) of us know, the first ten amendments to the Constitution were added four years later as the Bill of Rights. The second amendment obviously being one of them.
The actual intent (of the framers) of this amendment, has long been hotly debated. And when l read it, I can see why. To put it bluntly.. The framers did a "SHITTY" job of wording it!!
Irregardless of whatever their actual intent really was?!?
I reposted this last statement from the 20th.
I personally DONT believe our founding fathers ever intended to even try to regulate or take away any guns from the then colonists.. Or, should l be saying.. The first citizens of this, then newborn nation.
Back then.. A large percent of them did use their guns to procure food.
["Chuckling" needing the "protein" in their diet..]
In my case.. Thats why l call it the "sport" of hunting. My survival most definitely doesn't ( at least not yet) depend on it.
#15
Sorry outback. I changed some bad pronunciation and got in front of your responce. :-)
#16
And what is the rational response to DACA? Round 'em up and send 'em to a country that they have never known with a language they don't speak…and to a place where they may well be in danger for their lives…just because they had the misfortune of being placed into a situation that was beyond their control….just because we don't want 'em here in this patch of land where we committed genocide with the native population, so that anglos "looking for a better life," like all immigrants, could swarm all over the "new nation" and selfishly declare that now we have new rules regarding who gets to stay here and who gets sent back to the "shit-hole" their parents came from?
But it's all about what is legal immigration and what isn't legal immigration, isn't it? Not about race or anything like that? The fact is that these people are here and the question is, what is the most reasonable and humane thing to do about it?
Maybe we could compromise and only send half out of the country. We could have a lottery. The lucky half could live here and likely live happy and productive lives and the unlucky half could be sent to an uncertain future that may well cost them their life. In other words they could be retroactively aborted.
#17
Jefflisse: I'll agree, the wording could have been more precise (on the 2nd Amendment). But context comes into play. Who had the Framers most reccently been at odds with if not a totalitarian and oppressive regime? "Shall not be abridged..."? By whom, and to what end, if not by such a regime and to their own ends? Beyond that, world history shows what happens when a society places its own welfare, even to the extent of relinquishing its own protections, in the hands of a ruler or a ruling class. I believe the Framers' meaning and intent is more than clear.
#18
Jeffl,
If you just disregard the bill of rights alltogether and just look at todays facts, people in the city do not need guns. The lives of people in the country are way different. I thought I understood that as a city person of 30 years, then I moved to the counry. Just the post above about the dogs show the difference. No one is coming to get the dog or put down your livestalk. Meth users & pot thieves are a real threat of home invasions. Right now there are 2 posters of missing women on the local front door of the closest mom & pop store...that is 26 mile from my house. Visiting friends have when you go the post office or hardware store...life is different. Most people are poor and stock the freezer with the fish they caught or the game they shot and it gets them through the winter. Especially the Indians at the res.
I don't cause as long as I can get to safeway...50 mile away I don't need to...but if SHTF it's nice to know there is 21 turkeys that come to see me every morning.
#19
I grew up on a farm. And l shot many a skunk, coon and wild dog trying to get into the chicken coop or raid the duck or goose nests for eggs! So, yes l do know how different it is in rural areas...
#20
Stopgap,
The right thing to do is to allow them to stay and fix our immigration system. But before we open the door to more we should get our own homeless off the streets, and VETT new commers.
Why...you do know that California prisions are run on the inside by the Mexican Mafia...We do have major ms 13 gang problems here. Not Fox bs...was here long before fox started yapping about it.
I was manage at a store in S.F. 20 years ago and it caught fire so I hired a Mexican crew to do the repairs...one crew member was outside the store at all time...to watch for drive by shooters. One of my employees was shot because his girlfriend had the wrong color ribbon in her hair.
Somehow I just don't see them turning in their guns, or becoming nice US citizens.
#21
And in my case. Now living in the "sprawling metropolis" of Janesville, WI. I only have to go a few miles in any direction to be rural...
#22
jeffl,
My husband and I have been into alt. energy since the gas lines in the 70's. We haven't set up our personal systems yet. Our power was out for 24 hs this weekend with temps in the low 20's.
I don't know how you survive in those cold temps, in Wisc. Especially when the power goes down.
We speak on a weekly basis with 3 people in different European Countries trying to make the real break thought in energy...all three wish they could do it from the USA due to the difficulties of working with their Governments.
None of them care at all about Trump issues as the people of all countries want the break thru and are determined to find it and market it.
Tesla roofs are fantastic but out of the ballpark unless you're a millionaire.
#23
I hope that all of you gun owners that use their guns for self defense have a lawyer on retainer. They advertise on the local right wing radio stations that if you have to use your gun, you will most likely be arrested and you need a lawyer on retainer for immediate action.
https://www.google.com/search?q=gun+owners+lawyer+on+retainer&oq=gun+own...
#24
Legend
We have always needed a Laywer if we shot someone... even the police have to defend shooting someone. It would take up the majority of my life defending myself no matter the criminal past of the person shot. Especially in California. Not that anyone I know wants to shoot anyone.
The shootings I'm aware of have been people on drugs Pharma or illegal, or home invasions for drugs.
#25
Another one of my Rabbit holes ...for those who may be interested.
Rethinking Watergate
http://victorhanson.com/wordpress/rethinking-watergate/#more-11016
#26
Outback
As to our " founding fathers" intent..
So very much of it is open for interpretation!
The first line.. " We the People"...
Who exactly were they talking about?
Definitely not the "savage" people just to their west..
Or.
Definitely not the "black" people they considered their property..
Women?
Couldn't vote..
Men who didn't own property?
Couldn't vote..
It sure could be interpreted. That these " founding fathers" were not much more than rich, aristocratic, racist, chauvinist, sexist, class oriented, extremely flawed white men...
Now, lm not saying that this is the case.
But, it could be interpreted that way!
#27
Jeffisse, you wrote in part "....these founding fathers were not much more than rich, aristocratic, racist, chauvinist, sexist, class oriented, extremely flawed white men..."
Yes, I suppose that's probable, given the times, at least for many of them. So do you suppose their failure to document which "we the people" they were concerned about means they were writing their prescriptions only for themselves? In which case, why write it down at all, as they already "had the hammer"? I prefer to believe they were moved to be more inclusive, even if they were imperfect in their own actions.
#28
First of all HC, DACA has nothing to do with opening the door to new immigrants. It has only to do with the special situation of dealing with the children who were brought here by their "illegal alien" parents.
As far a gangs go, in the nineteenth century we had big problems with Irish gangs and in the first half of the twentieth century, we had big problems with Italian gangs (aka, the mafia) we also had problems with Vietnamese gangs, Latino gangs and so on. The thing that most of these gangs have had in common is easy access to guns, which not only emboldens them, it empowers them, making gang-life a seemingly viable alternative for kids that don't have the same benefits of their peers.
The other thing that is often a common denominator to gangs is coming from an oppressed minority. I've lived in a ghetto situation and I've seen how difficult it is for children to escape the environment that they are locked into because of peer pressure and discrimination. Easy for us white people to condemn them but almost impossible to walk in their shoes. As Chris Rock says, "no white person wants to be me and I'm rich."
So I don't suppose that your employee getting shot had anything to do with weak gun control laws?
I've lived in isolated places, out with the bears and rattlesnakes, etc. where my garage was broken into while I was inside the house. My adopted stray dog did the honors of saving me the trouble of having a gun. I've lived in Oakland, South San Francisco and Venice, Ca. where helicopters would often hover above, and gunfire would ring out, and one guy half a block down the street got blown away and a neighborhood kid ended up on my doorstep with a gunshot wound, and I still never felt the need to buy a gun. Basically, I would watch where I walked and minded my own business and let the police do their job.
No one expects criminals to just hand in their guns but making guns illegal would be a huge first step. So is the alternative to insure that our most dangerous criminals and mentally deranged are armed to the teeth? Yes, it's true "that if all guns were banned, only criminals would have guns." But that's just the point, THEY WOULD BE CRIMINALS and could be arrested for having those guns. That's what laws are all about.
Australia figured it out, so why can't we? Because the NRA makes it a point to make sure that we don't figure it out. They offer all these incredibly contorted rationalizations for how having more guns will make us safer with only the flimsiest shreds of antidotal and hearsay evidence, while tens of thousands of Americans are butchered every year. I don't see how anyone could listen to this insane idiot, Trump, shooting off his mouth about arming teachers without any proof or evidence to back up his statements, and not think he was totally crazy.
We're not trying to ban all guns, but a little commonsense would be nice.
#29
Stopgap: You have one hell of lot of faith in "the law", or those that profess to "protect and defend" or whatever that slogan is. Good luck, my friend, for "the meek shall inherit the earth" (and good luck there as well) :-D
#30
Stopgap.
You asked me about DACA,
I responded....
The right thing to do is to allow them to stay and fix our immigration system. But before we open the door to more we should get our own homeless off the streets, and VETT new commers.
Then I went on to discuss immigration....
So now I'm sayin'
Many people grew up in poverty in Oakland, S.F. of all races, making excuses for them for the most part stealing guns is not an aceptable reason to take guns from law abiding citizens.
I to have been flat broke at times and for a few days was taken in by a black family in Marin City while I got it together. Many many people of color do not resort to stealing guns and killing people.
So lets help those people of color already here rise out of desperation before we take in more. It makes no sense to compound the problem.
Also we still have Asian gangs, Irish gangs...the cops,the Italian mafia ( unions ) et al.
Speaking of that I'm pretty sure Trump did not build in NY with out working things out with them....he would never get his cement poured if he didn't.
In S.F. we had Wille Brown for Mayor...a corupt but delightful mayor.He's still fun to listen to.
My dad grew up with 12 brothers and sisters in N. Carolina and far from being a plantation owner his and his brothers picked cotton as did many "White Trash".
That's what made his decision to move to Ca. Many a white family was desperate during the dust bowl too.
#31
We have a society that was bought up on guns on TV from a very early stage. Gunsmoke, The Rifleman (Pa,Pa), Bonanza and the Vietnam War. Have you ever watched reruns of Bonanza? Almost every show they are in the bar doing shots and fully armed. Illegal today. In those days not everything was shipped overseas. It may be that deep rooted.
#32
As far as DACA goes, Republicans will resist to the end because they think it is 800000+ Democratic votes if they give them the vote. It is that simple. Elections have consequences. If you voted for Trump or third party that is what you (or more appropriately, they) get.
#33
Legend
You're so right and then it carried on into Clint Eastwood, mayor of Carmel in.. Dirty Harry, The Good The Bad and The Ugly,and on to Arnold Swartzniggers Terminator... who was once our govener here in Ca.
#34
That's true too almost makes you (me) want to quit voting.
#35
In reality the Wild West was not like TV at all. Guns were checked in at the sheriffs office in Dodge City. The OK Corral was one of the few shootouts. And it was lightly armed by todays standards. I read a history book that said the biggest problem in the 1800's was mud. It could stop everything.
#36
HC, Maybe your response was clear to you, but to me, and I suspect to anybody else here, the implication was that DACA was somehow opening the door to illegal immigration andcriminal gangs. You very quickly glossed over the plight of the Dreamers but chose to lump it all together with illegal aliens and gangs and then threw in the plight of the homeless to further confuse the issue. Maybe the rest of the readers are better at reading your mind than I am? But, after your long racist rant, the other day, about we were happiest when we were largely an anglo/Christian culture, you might understand my confusion?
#37
Agree with stopgap.
#38
Hey 10K, I got the impression that you were from North Carolina and I found this video about the Pisgah National Forest that you might enjoy. I camped out there for a few days last summer. I'll be back in Asheville this April but I'll be camping out in a motel this time. Not that I don't enjoy camping out in the wild, but we old folks do like our creature comforts…not to mention easy access to a bar.
http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/videos/video/protecting-north-carolin...
#39
All about guns
OMG
Any human love in there?
#40
Stopgap,
I agree some times I go to fast and try to fit too much into one post.
I tried to explain to all, that I was posting that article because of the question ...How did we get where we are...not because of his opinions of how. I didn't expect you to read my mind as I thought I was being clear on that point. I still find that question interesting. He posed it so I credited it to him.
Also if you checked out his site you would find he's married to a mexican woman and lives happily in Mexico. She teaches spanish to anyone that would like to learn. Even so I disagree with much that he says.
You seem determined to prove me a rascist and you couldn't be more wrong. I wasn't raised that way and never was interested in being that way. And being raised in S.F. most people I knew were never that way. I didn't even know it existed until I took a trip to Tenn. when I was 13. You seem so quick to judge me...why? There are many people of varing colors in my life that I truly love.
I find it difficult to express myself when I have to wipe all the trash talk out of the way and sometimes to my regret get caught up in it myself. MY Bad. I really do know better.
I do read from all perspectives and watch for the truth, the lies and relevent questions in all that I read.
After all I read your posts. Disd you ever watch the movie the great debate?
Peace!
#41
One more thing....I really believe we need to clean up our mess here with over 60,000 homeless just in LA before we add more people to the mix.
It might not be such a huge issue in your state, but Ca. is a border state and most illegals end up here, partly because of our laws and the fact we have always lived together in peace...until recently, partly because were are an ag. state so many move from the fruit & veggie fields to the pot fields.
Many and I mean many pot growers are being put out of business due to legalization, the price has bottomed out and the new taxes, regs, fines and fees are so high that the only ones who can compete are the wealthy. There are no jobs in rural Ca. either.
Very few pot growers had the kind of weath the state thought it had so they grabbed all of it and more. You can't grab what doesn't exist. This all adds to the stress of more new comers.
That is going to lead to a massive increase in people going on welfare as they won't be able to make a living anymore.
#42
HC
If nothing else.. You do seem to be very contradictory in your posts. You actually tend to contradict yourself at times. Maybe thats why some of the others tend to pick on you..
It is mildly amusing.
At least your not belligerent and down right nasty when you voice your views and opinions...
#43
Perhaps it's because I see most of these issues as being complicated, not cut and dried.
I'm not perfect and as I said I'm looking for solutions.
And hey I'm a smoker in Ca. and I sure get razed for that, being picked on doesn't bother me except to the extent I find it a waste of time when there could be useful conversation.
That's why I said I would stop posting here if most of you wanted me to leave, theres no point in talking to people who don't want to hear you.
I don't really know how or why anyone here thinks the way they do either.
Also I'm female and most of you seem to be men for whatever thats worth.
Anyway I have a busy day tomorrow...so hope you all enjoy you day and I won't take over the conversation tomorrow. :)
#44
Which kills more young people...gun violence in schools or abortion?
#45
#44
Conflating two completely different things together is really "childish"!
You obviously, are looking for nothing more than a confrontation!!
#46
What's different about them? You have young dead in both instances. Sounds pretty much the same to me. I find it puzzling that the left is so vocal in one case, and yet so silent in another when the outcome is virtually the same.
#47
HC
Your a smoker.. I sure hope its the green stuff?!?
#48
As to DACA and immigration, why not try the Rush Limbaugh solution? That is, the republicans would agree to amnesty for all illegal immigrants and DACA people. However, they would not be allowed to register to vote for say 15 years.
Now, that addresses at least some of the concerns of republicans, and it would make the democrats prove that they really do just have the best interests of the DACA people at heart, and are not just concerned about buying their votes.
But of course, not a chance either party would agree.
#49
#44 #46
Like l said.. Your here looking or "trolling" for a confrontation! Maybe one of the others will oblige? Your so not worth wasting my time on..
#50
Coalage, Since by definition a fetus is not a young person, I'm going to have to say Gun Violence kills more. But since conservatives love to create their own definitions to prove their points, using your method, then I would have to say that birth kills more people since everyone that is born will eventually die.
If "pro-lifers" cared half as much about the welfare of the born, as they do for the welfare of the "unborn," then their arguments might have some credibility. But their support of the most morally corrupt president in U.S. history only makes clear their hypocrisy.
The conservatives support of the new "tax cut" that will result in ballooning the deficit, surly resulting in cutbacks of programs that support babies, both born and "unborn" along with the future development and education of these "young people."
All this for the purpose of making the rich richer to continue the pipe-dream myth that "trickle down" really works, even though it has been a dismal failure every time is has been tried. But conservatives fall for it every time anyway, because their greed and bigotry outweigh any real convictions they might have regarding the future of the "unborn."
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"Never one to shy away from the truth, Thom Hartmann’s collected works are inspiring, wise, and compelling. His work lights the way to a better America."
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"In an age rife with media-inspired confusion and political cowardice, we yearn for a decent, caring, deeply human soul whose grasp of the problems confronting us provides a light by which we can make our way through the quagmire of lies, distortions, pandering, and hollow self-puffery that strips the American Dream of its promise. How lucky we are, then, to have access to the wit, wisdom, and willingness of Thom Hartmann, who shares with us here that very light, grown out of his own life experience."
Jeffl,
Thank you,
Reg coffee in the morning and decafe at night.