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Palin -- I had no clue about the Flying Spaghetti Monster until Thom described it a couple of months ago. You probably know, but if you don't the salient point is that the religion of the flying spaghetti monster says that the FSM manually changes all the measurements that scientists take. Thus everything one derives from science is wrong.
Have you read the book "Why God Won't Go Away -- Brain Science and the Biology of Belief" by Andrew Newberg, Eugene D'Aquili, and Vince Rause? I think it is interesting how religious practices effect the activity of the brain.
Putting America first
1) stop using political parties that take money from corporations.
2) create cooperatives/ democracy at work this teaches the public what voting is all about
3) pool money to buy solar panels or other things to get people off the power grid
4) nationalize healthcare, and education
Now on the other subject: I would love it if atheists used their rights in the form of religious freedom, but many are skeptical of the leader/follower model. Thom please go to youtube https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAtheistExperience and see some of the episodes of this over ten year show. http://www.atheist-experience.com/ They have used community television to produce the best quality call in out reach I've seen. Maybe you could go on their show or they could come on yours.
I am currently watching every episode from the beginning so I'm not up to the current days yet but its great hearing the Bush years. ANd the court cases and other news through the eyes of atheists.
If you have 'faith' it must be about something for which you have no supportive evidence else it would be called 'empirical knowledge.' Pretending you 'know' something you don't is not an indication of good character. An agnostic does not see enough evidence to be convinced that there is a deity but knows trying to prove a negative is a fool's errand. A priest, a rabbi and a fundamentalist walk into a bar. The bartender says, 'is this some kind of a joke?'
FractionallyUnnerved: "Palin your on a roll I see lol."
Yes, I sat right down on top of it...but I ate it anyway...I was hungry! ;-}
By the way, I don't know anything about whether the Rockefellers or other "superhigh finance Oil atheist types" are actually atheists.
They could be very religious Jews or Christians or Muslims or whatever...I don't know. They are sure greedy, that's for sure!
That link you posted didn't work but I think this is what you meant...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaway_greenhouse_effect
I agree, this planet very well could be similar to the planet Venus some day.
Craig Bush: " We must learn to work less, to consume less and to live more. If we cannot learn to do these things we will certainly perish"
Sounds good to me!
There is no doubt that there are many people who have misused science to serve their own greed. And there is no doubt that scientists are human and err in many human ways..and some even have fragments of superstitious beliefs that were, perhaps, crammed into their brains by their parents or relatives...or later on, perhaps, by friends who you didn't want to risk estrangement from.
Some, who still have remnants of a religious belief, often have to separate what they know to be true in science with the opposing ideas of the religious indoctrination (brainwashing) they got when younger.
For some, it is a way to cling on to loved ones who were devout believers...or not. Or, perhaps, some acute psychological event occurred that made them fall easy prey to religious or superstitious proselytizers. There have been many cases like this...whether it be a "psychic" pretending to be able to connect their victims to their dead relatives or some other scammer peddling superstitious garbage to a psychologically vulnerable victim.
nora: At least scientists are real..they exist...God doesn't...God is just a make-believe, just-pretend idea that some people choose to believe in. Although some people try to give their just-pretend buddy in the sky all the credit for all of the good things and never any of the bad things...so they have Satan for that part. This belief in God sure didn't create modern science or any of the products of modern science. We would still be believing in all manner of mythical beings were it not for science. Science is not God. God doesn't exist except in the minds of people who choose to believe it. Some people believe in other ridiculous things too...they just exist in their minds. Yes, science is just a tool. I agree. And it has been a very useful tool.
It is nonsensical to even use the word "God" unless you are dyslexic (ie: god is dog..and some people think so...others...cats ;-}) in any realistic sense unless you are referring to mythology. Believing in God is tantamount to believing in flying carpets or any of the other ancient nonsense. No one today seriously believes that Thor, Isis, or Neptune were anything but inventions of man's imagination. So is it with God. God is nothing more than the invention of man's imagination.
And did you know that many things in the Bible were plagiarisms from more ancient myths. And there are quite a few parallels to Roman history as well. It seems the Romans were trying to psyche out the Jews...trying to get them to be not so rebellious...trying to split them into bickering factions so that they would not be such a pain-in-the-backside to Roman rule. So they created parallels to some instances of Roman history and modified them to be Jewish accounts of their stories that you now can read in the bible. It was a way of not only making fun of the Jews if they fell for these stories...they, of course, being the Christians that morphed from the Jewish religion and Paganism....but the Romans hoped that all Jews would be converted to people who would not rebel against Rome. "Give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar" (ie: pay your taxes). Don't rebel against your master. etc.
And there were many different early Christian churches then all of whom bickered over their beliefs. Some mixed Paganism with the new Christianity. But, this turned out to be yet another pain-in-the backside for Roman rulers...especially the Emperor Constantine..who hauled all of these bickering bishops together to hash out what was to be, from then on out, the unified Christian religion. They mixed in some of the Pagan beliefs of some of the bishops and, of course, of Constantine himself who was Pagan. And they threw out many other beliefs of the early Christian Church. And after they finally concluded, with the approval of Constantine, the Christian Church partially as we know it today was born. I say partially because there has been a lot of errors by scribes and outright manipulation and falsification by Church authorities over the many years. So much for the inerrant word of God as brought to you through the bible that was "inspired by men of God". Funny, no?
I think it's rather funny, if not very odd, that many believers over the years have gone from absolutist fundamentalist believers who believed every jot and tittle in the King James Bible (or any other Bible..why are there so many?;-}) to a kind of modified belief system where they have to admit that some parts of the bible are metaphorical or symbolic or some other schmooze word in justifying their current superstitious beliefs. It was largely science that has enlightened many people despite the fact that scientists have been burned to the stake by the ignorant lot who just couldn't understand or accept science. There are still people today, "believers" in whatever derivation of an "inerrant" word of God they wound up with, who are not much better than the believers of nonsense a thousand, or so, years ago...or even many thousands of years ago.
The ancient Mesopotamian superstitions, the ancient Hindu superstitions, the ancient Egyptian superstitions, the ancient Jewish superstitions, the ancient Greek superstitions, etc...they all morphed into modern day superstitions. And at each juncture the priest's goal was to manipulate the masses. So, they took parts of the more ancient superstitions, myths, and modified them a bit to make them more believable to the masses they hoped to control.
It is largely science that has shown the fallacies of religious beliefs and which has caused many people to modify their beliefs. Although, there are still a few who try desperately to trash science in favor of their fundamentalist beliefs.
http://www.truthbeknown.com/
Homo Sapiens are insane apes out of balance with nature. The development of our super ego sealed our demise. We knew in the early 70's, that if we didn't bury our petrol-chemical autos they would bury us. Carter understood and hosted the beginning of the green economy. He put solar on the white house. Reagan-Bush came in and took them down. The war between the green economy and the fossil burning economy is over. We lost. We cannot close pandoras box. Not enough time. The science of measure is very precise. The melting of permafrost and the release of methane creates an exponential rise in global warming with no reversal.
We would have to harness the green energy from our rivers using low face dam technology that create habitat for fish and marine life. We can use the design to move water to consumers. 25% of our carbon footprint in CA is spent just moving water around the state. We must implement 21st century water science technology and re-organize the management of our water resource. End fossil burning cars. Build homes that are water and energy efficient for single income families. Break up the large agriculture land ownership by internatrional multi national corporations. Enable the formation of small farms that are more productive in balance with nature. Create a 4 day, 3 day alternative work week. We must learn to work less, to consume less and to live more. If we cannot learn to do these things we will certainly perish.
hartmann wrote:...if we all toss in our efforts and push our politicians hard, we'll get there.
I sure "hope" so but I'm afraid we are going to have to resort to way more that pushing our politicians hard. Other countries have had to "push" their governments "very hard" with the end of a barrel en masse. And unless the ruling elite and their toadies in government fear this, nothing will happen in our favor. They will continue on their path of driving us all into the ground...little squeaks only encourage them...we need the "roar" of beyond the effete ballot box.
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IF THE POWER ELITE WANTED TO GO THERE, THE POLITICIANS WOULD ALREADY BE PUSHED.
Which I think is the biggest indicator that much of Global Warming has been the result of weather modification Science (GEO-ENGINEERING) in full swing as carried out by plan by the Power Elite themselves -- as most likely another disaster capitalist scheme. All the better to mine tar sands if the Arctic is melting, no?
Corporate Science has brought us deadly synthetics and petrochemical madness, uncotrolled and uncontrollable pollution and deadly pharmaceuticals sold as cures.
Science is not Pure. Science has no morality or ethics. Science doesn't even have ideals. Science is not even Truth since the basis of the scientific process is new discovery which is ever-changing.
Science is just a process. Not to keep this as your definition of Science is to fall prey to Scientism.
Scientists separated from their humanity and conscience and responsibility are just obsessive-compulsives who can't say no to Pathological Curiosity.
Beware making Scientists into the members of a new Priesthood. Scientists are no closer to "God"/Mystery than any other human walking this Earth. It is silliness to think scientists are our modern holymen, closer to the answers that we pray can save us. To think Science is The Answer is to practice yet another religion.
Scientists are NOT saviours. Their findings are not Holy Writ!
Science cannot solve our problems.
If you think this and say this you are only regurgitating memes promoted by the likes of GE (General Electric) via their empty advertising slogans!
Science is no more useful or effective or dependable than any other human endeavor.
Science is NOT an institution even.
In our culture and time, Science is merely a TOOL of certain institutions: the Military, Big Pharma, Big Agriculture, The Petrochemical and Mining Giants, the Surveillance Octopus, even robber baron Wall Street with its theft algorithms!
Take the Roman Catholic Church purporting to be God's link to man and yet that Church was the source of intolerance of variant ideas, and the source of the Inquisition and perpetrator of religious-profiteering.
If one cannot let go of Science as Saviour of us and all around us, one's got a problem with reality.
Humankind's adoption of Scientific Technologies has not led to even one lasting panacea -- but has led to one war tool innovation after another, one environmental degradation and crisis after another, even one feeling of superiority after another especially when it comes to the Elite Class that controlled the implementation of the technological change.
Go to: http://fluoridealert.org for all the info on the toxicity of fluoride and what the rest of the planet is doing about it as compared to this country.
H.
Thought is the problem for it has been said many times Humanity's Beliefs create behaviours and behaviours create conditions our on the ground reality .So the fastest way to change anything is change the belief you hold about that thing.The sponsoring belief of humanity or original thought goes way back .Here they are Humans are separate from god/life and each other we are born inherently evil and it's fittest that survive ! Organised religion and its make believe fallacies have caused humanity to suffer on a massive scale and until we change our idea about who we are and what we at doing here the problems will persist for the nature of all our problems are spiritual and this is the only solution ,we have tried everything else and we just go around in circles .Einstein had a great quote on this" insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results "!
These original thoughts are the problem ? So our cultural story that is the story we tell ourselves about what we believe life is about is in error .Time to write a new cultural story with new guiding principles for Humanity We are all one and there's enough for everyone would be a good start .
oh and now that the earth is round, the left and right can only be so far away on any topic truth!
About this cold winter besides the Solar cycle Current Solar Activity Cycle Is Weakest in a Century | Space.com and the ozone depletion in the polar north.My theory is that the cold winter has been brought on because the cold air is being pushed down south due to man's activities ect.so until the tipping point we might see colder times then a massive warming.scientific analysis that I am not aware of could conclude this.thank you.
Frac out
Good morning to All
Palin your on a roll I see lol.These rockefellers ect.superhigh finance Oil atheist types ,with all do respect to the humanist. Believe me rothschilds and lube Job are, if allowed going to try and sell to the elites not the 99% Geo enginering on a grand scale and to access the north pole resources,Same way they sold the Iraq war!( first to each other )then media scraps are feed to the meek masses.leaving types like this forum and others to carry the torch.Friendly banter amongst the 99.8% like monday's blog I'm their,cheers. But the tactic of divide and conquer slipping in a mole and miss Info is the game we are Waking up to,eg Science paid for by the tobbaco lawyer types.this happened to the movement ,lack of Terms made it easy for media to dissipate impact ! Occuppy will as planned soon incorporate the .8% to 99.8%
Palin your quote "Moving beneath the Arctic Ocean where methane hydrates—often described as methane gas surrounded by ice—exist, a March 2010 report in Science indicated that these cumulatively contain the equivalent of 1,000–10,000 gigatons of carbon. Compare this total to the 240 gigatons of carbon humanity has emitted into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution began."
Could turn this Blue planet into the likes of Venus a green house planet! it has happened before !!in earth's history Runaway greenhouse effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia their idea is I'll be dead any way! so the greedy Athiest (not humanist )like Rockefellers Monopoly again and again from GMO's to the climate pollution nuke's being tested just to sell the dam bomb !and the whole time some ball-less pig fratbuddy , bonesboy for a quick fix back stabs life as we know it over and over!!
Schism Time!!! Let's Rock lol
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http://www.thenation.com/article/177614/coming-instant-planetary-emergency
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And now, we have a super El Niño on it's way across the Pacific. It is predicted that this one will be worse than the last big one we had.
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And has anyone even heard of the release of high levels of radioactive waste into the atmosphere 25 miles east of Carlsbad, NM?
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/22599-radiation-leak-at-new-mexico-nu...
Very good points, paulineSchneider! You mentioned the Prius...
Buying hybrids, like the Prius, is fashionable and probably a good idea but there are some caveats. From a cost standpoint, even though you may get good mileage, it is prudent to guestimate other costs over time and look at potential future downfalls...like cost of having to replace failing parts. And like the initial cost greater than similar gasoline-only cars. If you buy a new car every few years you probably don't have to worry about it.
The Nickel Metal Hydride batteries used in today's hybrid cars...like the Prius...and others...heavily relies on the mining of those rare earth materials largely from China. Because of the recent demand in the US for these batteries...they are even thinking of reopening the mines at Mountain Pass, California. I did a Google Earth search for that mine and what I see is a very deep crater mine and a very big hill of dirt.
The replacement cost of a battery is about $3000 (no telling what the cost will be in 10 years or even 1 or 2 years; but then, there's no telling what gasoline will cost either..I'm guessing...a lot!). Although, in the case of the Prius, they have a 10 year or 150,000 mile "no pro-rated" replacement warranty in California (8 years or 100,000 miles in all other states).
"A Toyota Prius battery, by the way, contains 168 1.2-Volt nickel-metal-hydride cells, which contain a total of 1.6 kilowatt-hours of energy. Its peak power output is 27 kilowatts, or about 36 horsepower."
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http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1059907_the-ultimate-guide-toyota-pr...
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They claim 50MPG on the highway. It is capable of going 1 mile on electric power alone...then the gasoline engine has to kick in. I was kinda hoping for more.
The Toyota dealers claimed that failure of the battery is the least replaced part. Other parts fail first. I wouldn't doubt it with all those electronic gadgetry.
I recently test drove one and it was nice except for a bit of road noise, lack of acceleration from a slow speed, split upper and lower rear windows in and below the hatchback you have to get used to. And you have to get used to not having a normal key.
You have a remote-like dongle that the car senses it's presence allowing you to open the drivers-side door only (in case some carjacker tries to climb in the other doors). To start the engine, you have to push a "start" button on the dash. That "start" button won't start the car without the dongle being in proximity to the vehicle. I believe the dealer also said you can start the car, on a cold morning, from inside the house and warm up the car. Can't start the car without the dongle, though. I wonder how lock smiths deal with this...or carjackers who happen to be hackers as well?
The electronics...display panels...something you have to get used to. The model I tested had a sun roof and a solar panel built right into the roof behind the sun roof.
I don't know, the more electronics they put into these cars the more worried I am that I may not always be in total control...hackers...radar or communication systems causing interference**
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**Garage doors wouldn't open in a whole community in San Antonio, TX due to NSA spying center's signals blocking garage door signals.
"Officials at the agency were forced to admit that one of the NSA's radio antennas was broadcasting at the same frequency as the garage door openers."
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http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-nsa-uses-powerful-toolbox-...
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..and after seeing what happened to Michael Hastings (if you buy into the remotely controlled high speed crash into a tree along with a horrific explosion in a car that touted it's exclusive safety standards), it makes me a bit apprehensive about owning anything with all of these electronic gadgets. I love computers...sometimes I hate them...and I always hate brain-cell killer cell phones or anything smaller than a lap top computer.
Aliceinwonderland ~ Sorry. One last thing I want to share.
I remember clearly some 15 years ago when my mother was dying in the hospital. She was suffering from heart failure. My father and I went to visit her together toward the end. She told us that the night before she was visited by a host of dead relatives. She described it in detail. Some of the relatives were dead for over 30 years. We were both in shock. However, she then went on to add that she was also visited by relatives that weren't quite dead yet; and, who lived some 500 miles away. I remember looking my father in the eye with that look that only says, "We lost her. She's gone."
I remember thinking that an experience that almost reinforced my belief in the supernatural actually was the ramblings of someone who was suffering from too much drugs and heart failure.
However, Palindromedary, my own spiritual experiences--which I have already shared on this blog for all to see--have convinced me otherwise. There is a slight possibility that they may be random chance; but, statistically in these cases, random chance is an unrealistic explanation that I don't buy. The fact of the matter is that there is more to the human spirit than the corporeal; and, no amount of bullying or insults on your part are going to change that fact as far as I am concerned. If you persist on not recognizing that fact I could'nt care less. Good night, my friend. Sweet dreams. Sleep tight! Don't let the bed bugs bite.
I think we've already passed the tipping-point. We may have another 2 generations of life left. Of course, this could change if the Chemtrails would stop, but that's not likely to happen.
When the Human race finally comes to an end, there will FINALLY be peace on Earth. Win, Win!
Hemp Seed Imports Weighed as Non-Lethal Aid to Ukraine
CC: By Alan Bjerga, Bloomberg Mar 26 2014
The U.S. Department of Agriculture is seeking to help Ukraine’s battered economy by bolstering imports of its hemp seed.
hemp-seeds-2.jpg
The U.S. Department of Agriculture is seeking to help Ukraine’s battered economy by bolstering imports of its hemp seed.
Ukrainian hemp -- a cousin of marijuana -- lacks the active ingredient that gives pot smokers a high, and is prized for commercial and industrial applications. Hemp seed can be used in high-protein oils or for making paint and plastics.
“We are now involved in trying to figure out ways in which we might be able to use the industrial hemp seeds that are created in the Ukraine in the U.S.,” Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said yesterday in an interview.
Ukraine, the world’s fourth-biggest producer of hemp seed, is seeking aid from the International Monetary Fund and other nations as it struggles with a four-month political crisis capped by Russia’s annexation of Crimea. The currency has plunged almost 25 percent against the dollar this year. Ukraine is seeking as much as $20 billion from the IMF, which may announce a decision as soon as today.
President Barack Obama has urged Russia to de-escalate the crisis over Ukraine or face more sanctions should it encroach further into the east of the country after its annexation.
- Read the entire article at Bloomberg.
Aw c'mon PD... Give it a rest!
Movin' on...good idea!
chuckle8: my "devil" just might be me... so as it is with the Flying Spaghetti Monster...lord and savior of the whole pasta world. Devils, monsters, gods, demons...they are, after all, merely manifestations within one's mind. At least, that's how I see it...but, of course, I could be wrong. ;-}
Good point, DAnnemarc! When you're brain dead, you are really dead. You can't really "come back from the dead" when you are brain dead. So no one, who has crossed that threshold, can "come back" to tell their story. And that brain, prior to brain dead, experienced the same kind of dream state...as in vivid dreams that seemed so real. And it is known that prior beliefs or prior sensorial experiences can trigger the subconscious mind into conjuring up various influenced "dreams".
There are several levels of consciousness. Some people under the influence of various drugs can experience things that they would not have in a fully conscious state.
Meditation can bring about a state of complete relaxation and the feeling like you are immobile..numb..unable to move unless you really forced it. You would be conscious of your surroundings, knowing that you could break this state if you tried. But, perhaps, you marvel at the feeling at the numbness of your complete body. You're fully aware of the sensation of numbness in the feet, legs, arms, face...the whole body. It's like you are asleep, yet fully awake. It's hard to describe the sensation fully. You can watch things that happen in the room while being numb and motionless. Of course, my eyes are open and I can move my eye balls but nothing else. I know this because I have done this a few times when meditating with hemi-sync© music. It didn't happen the first few times but eventually it happens. It is a rather eerie feeling but not really scarey. Just another something that I found was interesting to explore. But, I haven't done it for quite sometime now.
You know, some doctors actually use hemi-sync© music for their patients when undergoing operations. Especially if they are doing minor operations with local anesthetics. It helps calm the patient.
I used the term hemi-sync©: I believe it is a copyright name by the Monroe Institute...but I could also be referring to non-Monroe Institute products..names like brainwave entrainment or binaural beat frequency products.
I have read some interesting claims that I would not particularly vouch for. For example: Visiting other alien plains...seeing aliens..and other wild claims..seeing dead relatives..etc...during sessions. Again, you may just experience things that you tend to believe in...whether it be aliens or long-dead family members at the end of a tunnel of light.
None of my, close to, 100 CDs have ever let me do anything other than what I just described about my experience with it...just a deep relaxation...with those beat frequencies that enhances that condition. Other frequencies help with concentration. Others creativity. Others can put you into a very deep sleep..etc.
I rather like the idea of trying float tanks while listening to this music as well. I was going to build one once out of plywood lined with 3 inch thick foam insulation and lined with a waterbed liner along with a waterbed temperature control ....but haven't done it yet. I even found a supplier of 100 pound bags of Epsom salts to put into the water. It would take a number of these depending upon the size of the tank. It is also called an isolation tank. Floating in near body temperature-controlled Epsom salt water that keeps you from sinking sounds like you would get the maximum amount of relaxation. A feeling like you are floating in space (sans the absolute zero temperature, of course).
I might come out of the isolation chamber one day, being reduced to a primitive ape just out of our prehistoric past. ;-} references to a movie I once saw about float tank isolation chambers...movie: Altered States.
Thom, with all due respect, (and I think you're damn awesome)
This paragraph contradicts itself.
"I don’t think that all the tipping points Guy brings up are yet irreversible, and I believe there’s still a lot we can do to save the planet. I agree more with Michael Mann that we still have some time to fix things. But it’s still, as Mann points out, going to be damn hard to get the political will going worldwide or even here in the United States. And even using Mann’s conservative numbers, we’ll be at Guy’s point of no return in three decades or less."
You say you don't think the 32 self reinforcing feedbacks are irreversible (they are, hence named as such; irreversible, self reinforcing feedback loops), and that there's still a lot we can do (like what? Geo-engineering? solar panels? drive a Prius?).
That first thought is contradicted by then concluding Guy is right (he is, tragically).
Which is it?
Also, I think the proverbial feces has already hit the fan. Just in the US alone FEMA cannot keep up with the declared natural disasters over the past 5 years and is practically defunct. That's just the US, the nation of which you could fit three of into the African continent, another place reeling from climate change and our thirst for old earth minerals and fossil fuels...
Oh and 5 million people die early deaths annually due to climate change. The feces has struck the fan for them, most certainly.
As a mother of three and someone who loves truth and had hoped to see her grandchildren, I am not interested in attempts to urge the governments or "leaders" that murdered us, to now find ways to save us. They will not. It's not what they do. Such action is the antithesis of the kind of action Edward Abbey condoned, Action as the antidote to despair. Begging those who murdered us to stop has never worked.. It never will.
As for Studs Terkel, he also said this of WWII: "The war was fun for America. I'm not talking about the poor souls who lost sons and daughters. But for the rest of us, the war was a hell of a good time."
Hope dies last for some of us... For others, it's truth that we try to keep alive to the bitter end.
Interesting Rose. Just a few decades ago scientist believed the earth was cooling at a alarming rate. They where talking about spraying the whole north with insulation to slow down the cooling.
Maybe the earth warming is a good thing. a lot of the planet is unusable as it is covered in Ice. there is a lot of Canada, Russia and China that would have a longer growing season. I have to look at a world map and see where most of the land is above water.
Has anyone seen any studies on the benifets of the planet warming? I'll google it.