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Palindromedary ~ Thanks for that eye opening lesson! Thank you very much!!!
Kend: yes, I agree, smacks of socialism, doesn't it! Damn government won't even trust the parents to feed their own kids!
From 119 former post:
ken ware/chuckle8 ~ What you call "paranoia" I call critical thinking. I simply extrapolate a logical conclusion given a set of illogical and irrational behaviors by the Government; and then, compare them to known facts and historical precidents. I certainly do not want to believe the 'WORST CASE SCENARIO'anymore than you. However, we've already seen the results once in the previous century as to what happens when facism takes hold of a nation. It's not all at once, but one carefully calculated step at a time. Most of those steps have already taken place right under our noses and both of you are more than aware of that fact.
Call me paranoid if you like. To me, brushing my concerns off as irrational sounds as foolish as the German citizens rationalizations of the 1930's. Can we really afford the same consequences of that lethargy again when we know where this trend leads? Consider the pain and sorrow to the world if Hitler and the Third Reich were to be reinvented and given the might of the current US military.
Yet, I hope and pray you are right and I am wrong. I'd much rather be a publically ridiculed fool in this case than right! Remember, It is better to be prepared for a disaster that never happens; then to be unprepared for a disaster that does happen.
#111 from previous post:
chuckle8 ~ I see and agree with your point. I also am in favor of background checks. I'd love to see assault weapons banned as well. But this is my problem. These are the Government's solution for widespread violent mass murders that involve not only guns; but, the mentally ill. Have you ever heard of "Operation Northwood." If not, please google it. Before you finish typing "Operation" in your search engine "Northwood" will appear at the top of the search list. It was a clandestine black op proposed by the US Joint Chiefs of Staff and rejected by the Kennedy administration. It called for such acts to be committed on American streets, killing innocent American civilians in order to justify pursuing an illegal invasion of Cuba.
When I see my Government responding to the acts of these extremely mentally ill people by trying to ban guns I become very suspicious of ulterior motives. In this case the ends do not justify the means. Why are we not reinstating publicly funded mental hospitals? That is exactly what this situation demands? Gun control? Did prohibition stop drinking? Did the war on drugs stop drug abuse? No, they didn't. They simply made the problem worse. Ever since prohibition there have been machine guns available on the black market. No arbitrary mass murders have occurred in history until Reagan defunded mental hospitals. The argument for gun control as a solution to this problem holds no water.
On the other hand, the argument that the Government is behind these acts, or at least using these acts to pursue a hidden agenda of disarming the American People is blatantly sound. The 1%, or 0.01% if you will, are behind this hidden agenda. Of course they can arouse the emotions of 90% of the population by staging the mass murder of children. When our children are threatened we don't think clearly--we react--often times irrationally. I tell you I see the writing on the wall from a mile away; and, this is coming from an anti-gun pacifist. I have no love for the NRA, guns, or any of the red states. But I feel we are all being played like a violin. Don't think with you heart, think with your brain on this one.
From #92 former post:
ken ware wrote ~ "The reason why the President can elect the person he feels would do the best job when a Judge steps down, is that it allows there to be a change of thought and perspective as the nation changes and our views change and mature with age."
You make a good point here ken. Perhaps we should leave the Judiciary the way it is--despite "Citizens United." I'll agree with that.
ken ware further wrote ~ "Amendments to our Constitution are the only logical way to have change as our nation changes, but to throw out the Constitution because you feel those in power are using it against us is ludicrous at best. The Bill of Rights is untouchable and should remain that way as long as we exist, regardless how we feel about our Government and the present entities that run it. "
You are absolutely right about The Bill of Rights remaining untouchable. However, that document has already been touched--BY A SHREDDER You are wrong, Ken, when you say I want to "throw out the Constitution because you feel those in power are using it against us...". If you go back and reread everything I wrote you will see that my intent is to defend to Constitution from those who have--and are trying to--throw it out. Other than that misinterpretation of what I wrote, Ken, we see eye to eye.
From #89 former post:
chuckle8/ken ware ~ It's fine to amend the Constitution to address new issues encountered in time due to progress. This, indeed, I believe to be the intent of the founders. Such examples would be the internet, or the sale of weapons of mass destruction to foreign nations. However, to Amend the Constitution to change the Constitutions founding precepts, to me, is Treason. That is why all Presidents must take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.
Passage of laws that do what the foundation of the Constitution expressly forbids doing is Treason. There is no fuzzy middle ground! It is what it is! If we argue about upholding any part of the Constitution when our Civil Liberties have been obliterated, laws supporting religious establishments have been enacted, and our right to be confronted by witnesses, without cruel and unusual treatment, with due process and a speedy trial is no more, than we are but fools being prepared for the slaughter when we tell ourselves this document is still the law of the land..
ken ware ~ I don't consider myself a hypocrite. My opinion changes depending on what I see happen. Back when we argued about gun control and I stated that reinstatement of publicly funded mental institutions is the way to go I was shocked to see no one--NO ONE--in power attempt to drive this point home. Instead there was a total embrace of gun control. Paint lipstick on a pig and it is still a pig. Now that some of the States are officially filing grievances with the Fed, the Fed responds with threatening the State. Nonsense! As far as I am concerned when the point has gone this far it is no longer a bad idea but a policy of state dominance and the same as if a declaration of war has been announced. Regardless of our differences with the far Right, Ken, like you said before the parties are only a word starting with a "D" or an "R". The same party rules. The citizens however are all American Citizens and what threatens the liberties of a red state threatens the liberties of us all. We must join together and support our brothers while we still can.
It is you who surprise me with assuming my old position on the matter in light of the latest developments.
Outback ~ Right on, buddy! You hit the ball out of the park with that one.
chuckle8 ~ Thanks for simplifying the math. By the way, child porn is not protected by freedom of speech--it is child abuse! The violation of the civil rights of a minor. Completely different crime not needing an illegal Amendment to the Constitution. Any state that wants to change The Bill Of Rights should have the right to succeed from the union. The same goes for any politician and any citizen(s). Like I said once before, adios, siannara, arrivederci, magandang hindi importanteng bagay, adeus, and näkemiin. Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.
ken ware~ As far as moving away to avoid the problems in my beloved home town is concerned--you must be smoking something potent if you think for one minute that this blatant display of audacity on the part of Oaklands Finest does anything more than annoy the hell out of me. I've survived numerous gang fights with machine guns outside my bedroom window before without once considering moving away. No, this police state is just a fly in the ointment compared to what once took place in this fine city during the Reagan administration. Troubles pass and there is no place like home.
Form #83 former post:
Police State Tactics ~ You all may have heard about Alex Jones and his rants about the coming police state. I'm sure most of you live in comfortable areas and think he's nuts. However, I don't. Have any of you heard that the military has been ordered to make military weapons, equipment, and vehicles available to local police departments. Here in Oakland I've had several opportunities to see the results of this move. It has been a disaster of epic proportions. The police are now trigger happy. They ride their assault vehicles every chance they get.
A friend of mine recently had to stay in a hotel for six months while her apartment was repaired. Police pursued a suspect of domestic abuse into her apartment complex. Instead of knocking on the door, like they did for decades past, they surrounded the building and tossed flash grenades and tear gas into every apartment and in the crawlspace under the building. Of course at this point they weren't really sure if he was there, or which apartment he was in. Consequently, they almost killed a sleeping baby in one apartment and destroyed the life possessions of a single mother--including all her childs toys--in another apartment. Ironically, they missed the second floor apartment the suspect was in. He came out and peaceably surrendered after all the damage was done. The fumes of the explosions not only destroyed all the clothes and belongings of every tenant in the building; but rendered the building uninhabitable until it was completely renovated. Of course, the city (THE TAXPAYERS!), paid for all the damages including the hotels for the displaced tenants.
Is this really the type of community you want to live in? I don't!
From #81 former post:
The fact of the matter is this. Ever since the War on Drugs the US Government has defiled The Bill Of Rights by passing illegal UnConstitutional laws. The Patriot Act, Extraordinary Rendition and Federal Sponsored Torture has shredded the document to pieces. The present President even proposed "Indefinite Detention" and claims to have the right to order the killing of anyone he wants to in the world--including US Citizens. The Constitution as we know it ceased to exist a long time ago. Since then the Government, regardless of party in power, has systematically increased it's stranglehold on US citizens. As Alex Jones points out, every day we are moving closer to a police state.
When We The People argue that it is "UnConstitutional" for a State to insist on jurisdiction over itself we are actually arguing to uphold a document that no longer exists; and, advance the agenda of those who destroyed it. We are living in a fantasy world and are fooling ourselves. Mass cognitive dissonance. We are purporting to support the very doctrine of the fascist leaders that destroyed the document in the first place allowing them to pretend as though the document was actually still the law of the land because now some convenient provision of the past suits their present agenda.
In addition, we are attacking the sole group amongst us that has the brass balls to stand up to this fascist regime before they do any more damage. Not that stopping them is possible; but, if they can't be stopped now we certainly have no hope to do that after they disarm everyone. Shame on us! This may be our best hope to make a stand.
We need to support the Red States now while we still can!
DAnnemarc: Some people get a high on gambling..others killing...others just sparring verbally. It ramps up the adrenaline. But then to complete the cycle...kiss and make up. Fine, if everyone realizes this is the way it is; not fine, if it goes physical. It's a good thing that not too many people know where the others live...because it is not impossible to dox* people on-line now-a-days. Some people will boast that they are not concerned because they have an AK47 waiting for their unannounced entry. All part of the adrenaline rush maybe to cover some deeply buried insecurity. You know what they say..."Big guns...little p_____!" ;-} I'm just kidding all you guys with little p______ and big guns! In fact, you may just have a little gun and a big p______!
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*"Dox" is a term used to describe a person's personal documentation and information on the internet. The information usually involved is phone numbers, home and work addresses, credit card information and email addresses.
http://ohinternet.com/Dox
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Many people tend to be more civil toward one another if they know where, exactly, a person lives (and vice versa) or knows that he/she may one day meet them face to face. On the other hand, some people are crazy as hell and you just don't want them to know anything about you..let alone where you live.
With Google Earth, you can zoom right down into someone's driveway (if they even have one)..and do a 360 degree panorama of a street view...zoom right up to the front door. That is why it is not a good idea to reveal your real name or even very much other information about yourselves. You don't even have to pay for any service to glean little bits of information that you can use to dox someone. You don't even have to be a hacker, illegally cracking passwords, or breach secure servers, to get this information...it is all legal.
Bush (dumbya) v. Gore!!! End of story!!!
We need campaign finance reform. No more corporate funding of elections. If everyone was alloted the same amount to run for office, we would see a Congress that gets things done, because they are no longer having to answer to lobbyists and campaign donors.
What am I missing. I keep hearing about federal lunch programs for school kids. We do it really strange, weird way. The parents feed them. We put food in a bag and send it to school with our children. The Federal Government is feeding the kids I don't get it. Please help me out.
Our democracy has been polluted by the corrupt congress and other lawmakers.
chuckle8: But why would the 1% want the 99% to have guns? The 1% has all the gold and they mean to keep it which means they would be more afraid of the 99% having guns because they might start thinking it's time for a revolution.
Some people keep saying that the people wouldn't have a chance against such a well armed military...high tech weapons..and all that. But, you know, we were outgunned by a well-trained and obedient British army who all had more superior weapons than our rag-tag defenders of the home land had. We won because we didn't fight like gentlemen..actually, like terrorists!
I'd say that the 99% have a lot to defend against. I think that both the Democrat party and the Republican party are both trying to play their constituents for what ever they think they want to hear; but neither party, and especially, the ruling elite who control our government, wants the 99% to be well armed.
The Democrats have it easy in arguing against a well armed citizenry because their constituents are largely anti-gun (although not all of us are).
The Republicans have it much harder because they have to argue AGAINST their real position of anti-gun ownership, and pretend they are FOR gun ownership. They have to please their constituents..which is composed of a lot of the military industry and those goober, bible-thumping, jingoist automatons who want to rebel against the latte-sipping homosexuals who they feel largely make up the Democrat constituency.
That crowd feels the pain that is brought down upon them by the ruling elite, just as much as, or greater than, the rest of us; but, they are too stupid to know any better. They are a lot to worry about. But, the Republicans don't have to worry much about them because those dimwits back the Republicans anyway. And all a ruling elitist has to do is say "Look! There goes a flaming liberal homosexual...quick...shoot him!" And they will!
The anti-gun Democrats have a lot to worry about because they have given up their guns or never had them to begin with. They are the ones that believed that the police will save them...I say "believed"-past tense- because they are now being autopsied.
The Democrat party has a lot to worry about because, unless they manage to fully disarm America they will likely see a rebellion, of sorts, by a few dimwits in the Tea Party and then the Republicans will take over.
The era of Democrat useful idiots for the ruling elite will be over and we may very well suffer a theocracy. We'll all be force to go to Church, eat pork (to prove we're not Muslim), and kill more babies in other countries because they are Muslims, or Hindus, or Methodists. The Baptists will come to power and condemn ever other religion... they'll have all the nukes and will likely blow up the whole world just to prove their prophecy of Armageddon and the end of the world would come true after all. Yet another self-fulfilling prophecy.
chuckle8 ~ You may be right! If so, I'm sorry. I am paranoid mostly about the 1%. However, what do they have to gain by instigating and promoting the legal sale of guns, and fighting against gun sale restrictions? Here is the fuzzy part for me.
Palindromedary ~ I don't get the self-centered greed Ken shows sometimes. He wants to launch his own Rebellion when his personal benefits are threatened; yet, when the country is ready to fall into the handbasket to hell, he makes jokes and lobs insults to those who care. Doesn't he even realize that his precious benefits are still on the chopping block and his country as well? Where the hell is he coming from?
DAnnemarc: Yeah, I see you have been having fun sparing with Ken. He likes that kind of thing...I wouldn't get too upset. I think he is just having fun. Aren't we all! ;-}
DAnneMarc -- You need to read my comment more carefully. I agree just because your paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not out to get you. What I said was you need to better prioritize your paranoia. It is the 1% to be paranoid about. The 1% is in full attack mode on the gun issue.
I never thought I'd hear you admit it! ;-}
Palindromedary ~ Finally!! Thanks for showing up. I've been getting my butt kicked (literally even) Thanks for chiming in!!!! I've missed you!
ken ware/chuckle8 ~ What you call "paranoia" I call critical thinking. I simply extrapolate a logical conclusion given a set of illogical and irrational behaviors by the Government; and then, compare them to known facts and historical precidents. I certainly do not want to believe the 'WORST CASE SCENARIO' anymore than you. However, we've already seen the results once in the previous century as to what happens when facism takes hold of a nation. It's not all at once, but one carefully calculated step at a time. Most of those steps have already taken place right under our noses and both of you are more than aware of that fact.
Call me paranoid if you like. To me, brushing my concerns off as irrational sounds as foolish as the German citizens rationalizations of the 1930's. Can we really afford the same consequences of that lethargy again when we know where this trend leads? Consider the pain and sorrow to the world if Hitler and the Third Reich were to be reinvented and given the might of the current US military.
Yet, I hope and pray you are right and I am wrong. I'd much rather be a publically ridiculed fool in this case than right! Remember, It is better to be prepared for a disaster that never happens; then to be unprepared for a disaster that does happen.
chuckle8: And I bet they even had 'contingency plans' for 911...that they actually carried out this time....like they carried out at Pearl Harbor...like they carried out for the false flag operation on the USS Maine in Havanna Harbor...like they carried out on the USS Lusitania...like they carried out on the Gulf of Tonkin...and I have not listed them all, of course.
LINK . . . WHERE IS THE LINK?
Since the US Government/Military-Industrial-Complex has been a big part of that cancer, in murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the Middle East, they have created the anti-bodies, the terrorists, that are trying to kill the cancer (but I imagine they are merely seeing it as revenge for massive wrongdoing against them to begin with). It's just too bad that those antibodies don't attack the real cancers instead of the little people who are likely victims of the cancers themselves. The problem is that the cancer will increase it's own resistance and continue to choke all the healthy tissue around it. Death as a nation as we have known it...land of the free...is imminent! Maybe what we need is a massive internal antibody action against that cancer instead of foreign invaders. Terrorism against innocent civilians would do no good and harm the healthy tissue which would aid the cancer. We need to go after the cancer itself.
One such demonstration was the terrorist act in Boston. I really, really hope not, but I'm afraid we are in for many more of these demonstrations (blow back)! Maybe people should just stay home. Avoid public places... especially really big events.
By the way, check out this website if you want to see some very good photos (big, hi-def, more than full screen color photos) of the Boston Marathon Bombing (new ones) including pictures of the bombers before and after the bombs went off (but before you do, beware, some photos are very bloody and shocking...shows a close up of the man in the wheel chair whose foot and lower leg was blown off):
SHOCKING PHOTOS:
http://cryptome.org/2013-info/04/boston-bombs/boston-bombs.htm
Of course, if you were able to see the photos of what our military terrorists have done to innocent civilians for over 10 years...women and children...you'd be just as repulsed..or even more so. But they don't let you see those photos.
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