Well, it's a time-honored tradition among sociopaths. First, claim a Divine Mandate: "God told me to hurt you people." If that doesn't work, claim a popular mandate: "Everyone wants me to hurt you people." And if that doesn't work, what the hell, rip a page out of Dick Cheney's book: "I am hurting you people because I can, and in fact I think I'll brag about it."

And when that doesn't work, just do what Global says: go with the talking points supplied by Rupert Murdoch. I mean sure, Murdoch owns a lot of American media for a foreigner, but there's nothing wrong with someone getting all of their talking points and all of their news from a foreigner.

Global, if you had studied a tenth the actual American historical data that Thom has studied- and which he quotes from time to time so you could look them up when you're not busy quoting that foreign guy Murdoch- you might be qualified to debate Thom on politics. But what the hey, this is America, you don't have to be a patriot; you are free to swear allegiance to some foreign guy.

You wanta prove your point about the second amendment? Here's an idea: READ the second amendment, and then, to prove that you at least know where to find it, post it here on Thom's blog and show us where it proves your points. Unless, of course, you're too busy obeying that foreigner.

Since you opened a door by criticizing Thom's motivation, I'll walk through that door. I probably shouldn't, but I will. I knew Thom in the late 1960's. I didn't spend a lot of time with him, but I noticed that every time I saw him, he was talking about things he was researching, and he always knew much more about those things than any of the rest of us. He was always fascinated with life and very proactive, moving strongly on the cutting edge of our group of friends. Then he began really outpacing the rest of us. It was like his hsin (Chinese for heart-mind) sprouted wings and he just took off. He was fairly young when he started a live-in facility for disadvantaged children, helping them grow up to be healthy, happy adults. In various places there are lists of some of his other accomplishments.

So Global, not that Thom needs me to defend him, but so I can better understand your qualifications for calling him a drone and a pawn, perhaps you would favor me with a list of the subjects you have studied and the services you have provided for humanity.

And let's make it interesting: if you prove that you have done even a tenth the good for humanity that Thom has done, I will eat a bug. And then I will join the republican party, become a pistol-packing, foaming-at-the-mouth lifetime member of the NRA, and listen to that foreign guy Rupert Murdoch's Fox News every day. But if you do not prove it, you have to volunteer for five hours at a homeless shelter and then post your experience there, on this blog. What do you say?

Ok, now you can call me a drone and a pawn. At least I'll be in good company. And you'll be with that foreign guy.

Someone at the federal level needs to pass a law requiring districts to be defined with only straight lines and limiting the number of edges to 6. Within a given state, the number of registered voters in any given congressional district must be within +/- 10% of any other district. End of gerrymandering.

YES ! Absolutly . What should make them think they are above the law. Now lets see what the FEC or DOJ does - My guess is a spinless - nothing.

In the first hour today, one of the questions to Bernie Sanders was what we can do to prevent Republican gerrymandering to take control of presidential elections in the future. Bernie failed to have any real suggestions.

However, one thing we can do is to get behind the National Popular vote effort. If that were to become effective, Republican gerrymandering could have no effect on presidential elections.

Hi Thom,

I live in California. A couple years ago, a ballot mesaure was passed chaning the way legislative boundaries are drawn in the State. Now a panel of retired judges appoint a commission to draw the disrtict lines for congressional and state districts (State Assembly and State Senate). I've suggested to my friends in Michigan, although I know it's another 8 years to the next census, that they try to begin the discussion of getting a similar measure on the Michigan ballot. As I listened to Brunch with Bernie this afternoon, I caller asked him what could be done about gerrymandering. This could be one suggestion? Hope this helps. Thanks for all that you do!

Sorry Ken, I don't always recall the source of the information I get. But I've heard that more than once about suicide rates, regarding Vietnam vets as well as from the Iraq war.

You've made a few points I am compelled to respond to. For starters: "The idea that a soldier on the battle field can just refuse to fight because he doesn't want to kill or be killed is one way to demoralize and destroy the fighting men around you. Does anyone out really believe we should just turn the other cheek if we are attacked?"

Yeah, I remember those duck & cover drills, back when I was in first grade. They gave me the willies. As for any chance we might have had of being attacked by the big bad Communist Bogeyman... well, I guess perpetual paranoia is the price we pay in an Empire disguised as a democracy, one that is constantly on the offensive, attacking other countries without provocation and hell-bent on world domination.

"No war is preferred if it can be avoided through diplomatic talks. But I guess you thought the communist in the North Vietnamese Government were fighting to unite their country as a free state."

Talk is cheap. Besides, if it's truly diplomatic, it doesn't sell weapons or benefit the Almighty War Machine, our Military Industrial Complex. As far as the North Vietnamese government is concerned, I couldn't care less, then or now, whether they are communist, socialist, imperialist or WHATEVER because it doesn't affect my life or the life of anyone I care about. Beyond that, it's a different country, a different culture, residing at least six thousand miles from our shores. What they do with their country and how they choose to run it is none of my (or your!) business.

"It is always the arm chair warriors with no knowledge or experience, that come up with statements they might have heard something somewhere about a specific war, with no evidence that situation was factual. And the fact that you can say what you want, when you want and about anything you want is a gift handed down from those who served and died in our military."

What a sanctimonious load of crap. As if Vietnam's civil war had anything remotely to do with OUR freedom! Or South Korea's choice of political leadership... Gimmie a break. After forty-plus years, you're still under the spell of that Cold War propaganda machine. Get over it.

"The government has no reason to worry or think you people could be a threat to them and that is why they get away with the crimes they do. The people who have made these comments about our military are of the same character of those who spit on our guys when they returned from war. I really wish one of these cowards would have tried to spit on my uniform; it would have been a pleasure to make them aware of the reality in their little minded world. Arm chair warriors have been around in every conflict where real men and women put their lives on the line for this country."

The truth may hurt, Mister Warrior Man, but you did this country and democracy no favors fighting in Vietnam. You were just a pawn on someone else's game board and cannon fodder for the war machine. If that makes you more "real" than the rest of us in your realm of reality, then so be it. Have a lovely weekend.

- Aliceinwonderland

I owe an apology to Mr. Hartmann for poor blog etiquette. Got carried away on yesterday's poll and wrote a bunch of entries diverging way too much from the subject at hand. Don't reckon I'll be doing that again.

THERE now... I feel so much better!

Humbly, your loyal fan... - Aliceinwonderland

It's very reminiscent of things like the Mandelbrot set which is at least somewhat self-similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set#Self-similarity

Hartmann really needs to find new material to blog about. Anyone with half a brain already knows what happened in the last two elections. He has repeated this same information over and over again, I guess like the rest of R.T. things are getting stale on the info plain. This is getting as bad as CNN and their constant repeating of old news stories. I guess when you job depends on stirring things up among the "nit wits", any news is better than no news....

I am sorry Alice, but please let me know where you got your info about more suicides than those who died in battle. You sound like you have your wars mixed up. The soldiers in Afghanistan have suffered more suicides than combat deaths during a specific time period. I have to assume those of you who made comments that we as soldiers need to decide whether we will fight once we are military men, have no practical experience of being in uniform. I believe Mr. Abbot mentioned he resigned from the army. Resigning once your contract with the army is up is not the same as being in the military and refusing an order. Are there times when a soldier, airman or a naval personnel should refuse to obey a command if it is clear and apparent it is wrong, such as gunning down unarmed civilians, the answer is without a doubt is YES! The people who did not want to fight were consciences objectors and where given non-battle positions in the military. Whether you joined or were drafted into the army you swore an oath to the country and the military chain of command. The idea that a soldier on the battle field can just refuse to fight because he doesn't want to kill or be killed is one way to demoralize and destroy the fighting men around you. Does anyone out really believe we should just turn the other cheek if we are attacked? The Presidents you have mentioned believed at one point that the Domino Theory was a possibility. A perfect example was the Korean War where had we not fought to stop the Communists from taking over S. Korea, there would be no S. Korea and the whole population would still be under the control of a dictator from N. Korea! We were in a Cold War with the Communist forces around the World, or did that just happen to miss your mind. America, China and Russian where in an ideological war and the duck and cover drills were real because we thought there was a good possibility we would be attacked. No war is preferred if it can be avoided through diplomatic talks. But I guess you thought the communist in the North Vietnamese Government were fighting to unite their country as a free state. They were trying to unite the country as a communist run state like China and Russia. And if you disagreed with the communist you were sent to relocation centers to be re-educated to be a good communist. These days have passed, but at the time they were a real threat and for you TV journalists to say you know what it was like or what happened during and after any war and you had the answers is ridiculous at best. It is always the arm chair warriors with no knowledge or experience, that come up with statements they might have heard something somewhere about a specific war, with no evidence that situation was factual. And the fact that you can say what you want, when you want and about anything you want is a gift handed down from those who served and died in our military. The government has no reason to worry or think you people could be a threat to them and that is why they get away with the crimes they do. The people who have made these comments about our military are of the same character of those who spit on our guys when they returned from war. I really wish one of these cowards would have tried to spit on my uniform; it would have been a pleasure to make them aware of the reality in their little minded world. Arm chair warriors have been around in every conflict where real men and women put their lives on the line for this country.

.Abbot - You are a perfect example of someone who might have had military training, but are still an arm chair warrior. You heard two soldiers tell you about something that happened in Vietnam. You actually think the Communist Soldiers in any country during this war would not have fired on a Huey or a UH-1 chopper. Anyone who served in active duty in country during the war would have retired in 1993, because we pulled all combat personnel out of Nam in 1973. The only combat troops left in country were Maines tha guarded the Embassy. More arm chair B.S. from someone who was never in combat and the odds you talked to real combat soldiers is stretching it by a mile! Try telling facts and not your arm chair stories. You may not have even been the one who stated he served in the army for ten years than resigned. If so why did it take you ten years to discover you were not military material? The military usually gets rid of personal they consider not to be combat ready after their first tour of duty and replaces them with new officers, unless the qualifications have been lowered.

I am sorry Alice, but please let me know where you got your info about more suicides than those who died in battle. You sound like you have your wars mixed up. The soldiers in Afghanistan have suffered more suicides than combat deaths during a specific time period. I have to assume those of you who made comments that we as soldiers need to decide whether we will fight once we are military men, have no practical experience of being in uniform. I believe Mr. Abbot mentioned he resigned from the army. Resigning once your contract with the army is up is not the same as being in the military and refusing an order. Are there times when a soldier, airman or a naval personnel should refuse to obey a command if it is clear and apparent it is wrong, such as gunning down unarmed civilians, the answer is without a doubt is YES! The people who did not want to fight were consciences objectors and where given non-battle positions in the military. Whether you joined or were drafted into the army you swore an oath to the country and the military chain of command. The idea that a soldier on the battle field can just refuse to fight because he doesn't want to kill or be killed is one way to demoralize and destroy the fighting men around you. Does anyone out really believe we should just turn the other cheek if we are attacked? The Presidents you have mentioned believed at one point that the Domino Theory was a possibility. A perfect example was the Korean War where had we not fought to stop the Communists from taking over S. Korea, there would be no S. Korea and the whole population would still be under the control of a dictator from N. Korea! We were in a Cold War with the Communist forces around the World, or did that just happen to miss your mind. America, China and Russian where in an ideological war and the duck and cover drills were real because we thought there was a good possibility we would be attacked. No war is preferred if it can be avoided through diplomatic talks. But I guess you thought the communist in the North Vietnamese Government were fighting to unite their country as a free state. They were trying to unite the country as a communist run state like China and Russia. And if you disagreed with the communist you were sent to relocation centers to be re-educated to be a good communist. These days have passed, but at the time they were a real threat and for you TV journalists to say you know what it was like or what happened during and after any war and you had the answers is ridiculous at best. It is always the arm chair warriors with no knowledge or experience, that come up with statements they might have heard something somewhere about a specific war, with no evidence that situation was factual. And the fact that you can say what you want, when you want and about anything you want is a gift handed down from those who served and died in our military. The government has no reason to worry or think you people could be a threat to them and that is why they get away with the crimes they do. The people who have made these comments about our military are of the same character of those who spit on our guys when they returned from war. I really wish one of these cowards would have tried to spit on my uniform; it would have been a pleasure to make them aware of the reality in their little minded world. Arm chair warriors have been around in every conflict where real men and women put their lives on the line for this country.

.Abbott - You are a perfect example of someone who might have had military training, but are still an arm chair warrior. You heard two soldiers tell you about something that happened in Vietnam. You actually think the Communist Soldiers in any country during this war would not have fired on a Huey or a UH-1 chopper. Anyone who served in active duty in country during the war would have retired in 1993, because we pulled all combat personnel out of Nam in 1973. The only combat troops left in country were Maines tha guarded the Embassy. More arm chair B.S. from someone who was never in combat and the odds you talked to real combat soldiers is stretching it by a mile! Try telling facts and not your arm chair stories. You may not have even been the one who stated he served in the army for ten years than resigned. If so why did it take you ten years to discover you were not military material? The military usually gets rid of personal they consider not to be combat ready after their first tour of duty and replaces them with new officers, unless the qualifications have been lowered.

DAnneMarc, what an interesting observation you make! Watching the war on television, you experienced harm. You give credence to the spiritual/physics theory that we are all connected, and what is happening over there is happening over here, what happens to other people, happens to us. Which is why, even from a purely selfish viewpoint, America should find a hobby other than starting wars with countries that never attacked us. And America should find another hobby other than meddling in the political affairs of other countries.

Two Vietnam vets- who did not know each other- both told me the same story about that war. They said that periodically the brass would take away their bullets for three days, and that during those three days matte black helicopters would fly back and forth across the war zone between north and south, and between Vietnam and Cambodia, and that the North Vietnamese did not fire on those helicopters either. None of the soldiers knew the crews of the black helicopters and the crews never talked with anyone outside of their own group. The word was, the helicopters were carring a cargo more more important than the war; they were carrying tons of heroin.

Another vet told me that he fell into a river that had so much agent orange in it that the water was orange. When he got back to base, he was sick. He filled out the forms saying what had happened. Then his CO came to his bunk and said, "These forms you filled out, they're incorrect. You have to fix them. You did not fall into a river that had agent orange in it."

The soldier said, "Sir, I did fall into that river."

CO said, "Yeah, you fell into the river, but it didn't have any agent orange in it. Now change your statement."

Soldier said, "Sir, I won't change my statement. I told the truth."

CO said, "You have to get my signature before you send these forms in. I won't sign them in until you change them. And if you don't change them, I will change them."

My point is that there were honorable men fighting in Vietnam. But the men who started that war and kept it going, had no honor. The brave men who fought in Vietnam were fighting for pathological liars, drug cartels, mass murderers, and world-class thieves. If America is going to survive these times, the brave men who fight our wars- the men who say, "I was born to fight!" have a challenge that frankly not very many of them have the courage to face. They need the courage to say, "Wait a minute. I am not a rabid attack dog, I am a human being with a brain. So: PROVE to me that this war is just. PROVE to me that those people should die. Or go fight your own _____ing war."