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And that may be true...the guy driving the tank may have thought the protester had a bomb (you really don't know..you are just assuming)...but then, by the same turn, you don't really know that your action of notifying all the churches had anything at all to do with that abusive guy having a change of mind, either. Perhaps, you are just assuming that's the way it was....unless that guy told you that he knew your did this and that it was the reason he had a change of mind.
I totally agree that non-violence is a much preferred way of settling disputes and differences. But sometimes you just cannot reason with a bully that is about to blow your head off. In such times, it's good to have a fighting chance of defending yourself. Some people may fantacize about being a saint..turn the other cheek stuff..bullies just love that...but most of us would rather just be alive and living a decent life. ☮ ☯
So Sorry Girls - I never watch Fox entertainment Channel or MSNBC the left wing channel! As a matter of fact I watch P.B.S. and a little R.T. the commie channel and C.N.N. the channel that use to have integrity. I am not a left winger Dem or a right winger Repub., I voted for the Independent candidate. I knew she would not win, but I had enough self-respect not to vote for Obama the liar or Rummey Romney the candidate of the billionaires. Sorry to disappoint you. I do not adhere to either party; they are the same party with different names! Have a good one, ladies.
Of course not...not in a head-on fight. But even our forefathers knew better than to fight the British totally head on...they'd have lost too. But our forefathers used hit and run tactics and fought as dirty (from the British perspective) as they had to against a well disciplined, well armed superior force. The same thing went down in Vietnam and now in the Middle East. The US has a superior force armed with all the latest kill machines so the "insurgents" used whatever they could to fight the only way they could...and they have worn the US forces out...helping to break us economically. ☮ ☯
Old Blue - Since you mentioned your AFSC was a Ground Radio Operator, you must have been in the Air Force around 1965 or 1967. We served in the same branch. I went in, in 1970 out of college. If you were in the Air Force, you had a pretty good chance of coming home. It was the Marines and grunts in the Army that ate most of the dirt, although we had our share of K.I.A.. Glad to know a fellow Air Force Man.
When it comes to the military and its personnel I simply cannot react in a calm manner if I think someone with the wrong facts is making comments that shed any light of dishonor upon them. Soldiers like Lt. Calley and the men under his command that killed innocent villagers because Viet Cong (V.C.) had attacked their unit and killed some of their men should have spent the rest of their natural lives in a Military Prison. I feel that any Airman, Army, Marine or Naval personnel that cross the line should be dealt with in a severe manner. I realize crimes were committed in the heat of battle on both sides and in every war since and before Vietnam. But nothing is perfect and especially when it hits the fan and your survival instincts take control. WAR should be the last resort of any nation, but when necessary we should use everything in our arsenal to defeat any threat be it military or civilian. I do not think it is acceptable to say civilian deaths happen and that is just the price of destroying the threat. We do not live in a perfect world and the enemy takes various forms and represents different levels of threat to our nation and military. Bottom line in my mind is we are not the only nation that is constantly preparing for war. China, Russia, Europe and various Middle East countries are doing the same as we are and that is too make sure if war is inevitable, we are the victors in the end. If that makes me a war monger so be it. Personally, if I had the chance to be 22 again I would spend the next 20 to 30 years in the military. The main problem with our leadership is that they have never tasted war or the horrors that go with it. That includes the Bush administration (Bush actually refused to show up as an Air Force officer and should have been court martialed, (but daddy Bush was at some point the head of the C.I.A. and a decorated Pilot in WWll) and the Obama administration, and unfortunately it almost seems like a game to them. So if I sound hard core about the military, that is just who I am. No I will no lighten up if you attack veterans who were following the orders they swore to obey and the does not include killing of unarmed civilians that are not a present and clear threat.
Many of you that comment sound like you have bought into the propaganda that Oliver Stone the left wing director and producer of documentary’s and movies that show the U.S. and it's Military as some evil entity that is out to destroy the rest of civilization and we should be ashamed of ourselves. He is free to take that stance because the people he sees as the enemy fought to give him the right to say what he chooses. Even after WWll our military keep other countries from thinking they might be able to defeat Democracy and replace it with Communism. Try saying what you want in Russia or China 20 years ago and you would find yourself in a relocation center (armed camp) to be re-educated. This happened to the S. Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians in Southeast Asia after 1975 and the fall of Saigon. Read it for yourself and you can Google all of this from your computer.
Palindromdary - No one can know for sure if the Rosenberg’s were part of the spy ring that gave the technical information that allowed the Russians to develop the A-Bomb a few years earlier than they would have. I tend to believe the government and the F.B.I. were correct. As far as it being a good thing, I disagree with you. Your hypothesis is that if the enemy has the same weapon that can destroy your country that is a good thing, because it will stop us from doing the wrong thing. That pre- supposes that we would attack other enemies with the same Nuclear Weapon. You do understand don't you that President Truman tried to do everything possible to not to have to drop the two weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They were notified in every venue possible about the consequences of not surrendering. They were told we had developed a weapon that could destroy a city. We had fought them on Iwo Jima and several other outer islands and they were determined to die before giving up and they actually had their families that were with them commit suicide before allowing them to be captured. The Emperor of Japan was seen as the manifestation of God and would follow his orders to the death. It was estimated we would lose 100,000 to a 1,000,000 men trying to defeat the island nation of Japan. Everyone single person, man, woman and child swore to defend the Emperor to the death. After we dropped the first bomb on Hiroshima we ask them to surrender, the Imperial Military Command representing the Emperor refused. We dropped a second weapon and after three days they surrendered. It was terrible that we had to drop those weapons on those cities. But, the loss of life for the Japanese people was far fewer than it would have been if we would have had to invade the country and then defeated the population. Those were the two choices we had. And whether you know it or not the Nazi regime under Hitler was very close to coming up with a nuclear device from their Heavy Water projects. And they would have used it on everyone to retain power. We rebuilt Japan and installed a democratic government and helped rebuild the whole country. We did the same for Germany after defeating Axis powers of Germany, Italy and Japan.
The point I am trying to make is that just because we had the power after the war does not mean we would use it again in a land battle. We could have destroyed the North Korean forces that over ran the sovereign country of South Korea with the help of the Red Chinese Army. N.A.T.O. forces came very close to being destroyed in Korea, and President Truman did not consider using nukes. At that time in 1951 Russia was not seen as a threat if we used a nuke and China had no nuclear devises. Point being that M.A.D. was not a threat at that time and we still would not use a nuclear device to stop the Communist forces from destroy S. Korea and the N.A.T.O. troops. In my opinion giving the technical information to Russia just helped an enemy to develop a weapon that could destroy our country. I could go on for hours pointing out why the Rosenberg’s helped to develop a policy of M.A.D. was not beneficial to American, then or now. You have your opinion and I respect that and I have mine. Hopefully we will never have to see who is right on this question. Sorry for carrying on slow long on this comment. As a military history major and a collection of 800 hours of tapes and DVD’s pertaining to Wars and the Aircraft that were involved, I get carried away at times. Hell I doubt if anyone will even take the time to read this comment it is so long!!
Agreed--Ken is a Fox News junkie high on alcohol and prescriptive drugs that are NOT to be taken with alcohol--poor man--he's lost his bearings (if he ever had any??)
Ken is from idiotville! He has watched and sucked on Fox News far too long to have any coherent form of discourse! Certainly--he's as out to lunch as the Fox News anchors are as he's got his facts totally twisted!
Ken - So happens I am a Viet Nam era veteran. I wasn't called upon to serve in that theater, happily, as my AFSC was Ground Radio Operator and I probably wouldn't be writing this now if I had been. Ken, you should lighten up a little. Not everyone who shows up here with a critical word about our government's policies is a fat peacenik, commie or a coward. Quite the contrary. Sometimes it takes more courage to speak up for what you believe is right than to simply tow the party line.
Oh well, not everyone has to love me. Tsk.
I don't think any regulation controlling access to guns will prevent gun implemented violence until the return of mental health provisions plus healthy additions tp bith Medicaid ans Medicare for research on mental health are reinstated.
I'm just glad that people like Julian and Ethel Rosenburg, and others, if they really did hand over nuclear secrets to the Russians, did what they may have done because had they not, the US would have bombed the rest of the world with nukes. And I don't really think that the US had any cold, hard evidence that the Rosenburgs gave nuke secrets to the Russians...but they were executed for it anyway.
Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) kept us from prematurely ending the world through a nuclear holocaust. We had some close calls but had the US been the only ones with the nukes, many arrogant slime-buckets would have had no hesitation in using them. I believe that having a MAD program of our own to keep those slime-buckets from thinking they can get away with turning all lower class Americans into subservient slaves with no freedoms or liberties is quite necessary. I am not advocating the we citizens have nukes...just that we are well armed and that would present a really big problem for anyone trying to move against the American people. Even bullies will back off if the people they bully are well armed.
Excellent point, Old Blue!
I am sorry I thought it was Obama that sent 30,000 troops to Afganistan. If you want a strong middle class create a good economy. Bush has been gone for over over four years and 6.5 trillion dollars ago. I am just saying isn't time you start blaming the new guy. can any one name one thing Obama has done to improve the economy.
Palindromedary, I would like to reply to some of your statements/questions.
As you say, the American military has basically unlimited funds to pour into weapons, so there's no way that any group of American civilians could ever outgun them in a head-on firefight. But also as you say, looking at history, it's clear that no military has ever succeeded in occupying any country against a determined resistance. It's simply impossible. Which is why the republicans- wait a minute, let's cut to the chase and call them what they are: the fascsists have been trying so hard for so long to completely take over our education system, so they can indoctrinate our children into not resisting them, as they do in North Korea, and as they did in Germany.
Problem is, (as psychiatrist Scott Peck pointed out) Korea and Germany were always heavily patriarchal societies: obey daddy, or he'll hurt you. America not so much. At least in the north. In the south they're kind of patriarchal, which is why the fascists want the south to quit America- the south would be far easier for the fascists to control.
As far as our own military being turned against us, here's how military governments have always done that sort of thing. They take a look at the culture and identify group one and group two, which hate each other. Then they use a military force of people from group one to occupy group two, and use a military force from group two to occupy group one. Which brings us to an issue that is of increasing importance, both for me personally and for our country and our world: don't hate. No matter what, don't hate. Sometimes someone pushes one or two of my buttons and I lash out. And then I regret it because I know I'm not supposed to behave that way. In some situations it's just so easy for me to hate, to want to fight, and it takes so much strength, so much courage, and so much character to just stop, take a deep breath, relax, and work on healing my attitude. This is a very difficult challenge for me. But it's the only game in town. I mean, wherever I go, there I am. I can't outrun my shadow. But I can make peace with my shadow. If I have the courage to do it and the support of people who care for me. Which means that I need to care about people who are facing difficult challenges. We are all in this together.
It may be that the tank in Tiananmen Square wouldn't run over the kid becauses of the backpack the kid held in his hands. I believe they thought it was a bomb. As far as I am aware, no protestors had any explosives. That kid had the courage to put his life right on the line, and in so doing he altered the time-space continuum in a good way; his action was like a doctoral thesis in spiritual physics. If everyone had that kind of courage, this would be a peaceful world.
There is a seriously problematical potential inherent in every armed revolution: Usually the country ends up with a worse government, not a better one. Mao was very concerned about China's bad government. And it's true, the Kuomintang was bad. So Mao took over and promptly became so much worse than the Kuomintang. Same thing happened with the Russian revolution. It's George Orwell's Animal Farm, and the only escape is for people in general to become better informed and better people.
I agree that armed citizens are a strong deterrent to fascist governments like ours, and for that reason I think that sane people who want guns should have them. But at their best, guns are a temporary and unpredictable solution that can literally or figuratively blow up in the face of the people who use them. The only permanent deterrent is a peaceful, informed, mentally integrated citizenry of strong character.
Many years ago a friend told me that her husband would regularly get drunk, load his gun, grab her by the neck, put the gun against her face, and say, "If you ever try to leave me I will hunt you down and kill you."
She asked me to help her get away from him. I had seen the guy, he was really and truly insane; there was nothing I could have said or done to him that would have made any difference. So I phoned every church in the entire Seattle area, asking them to pray for her. I talked with Christians, Jews, Muslims, whoever. Some of them, interestingly, said, "Oh, we don't do that sort of thing." But most of them said they would pray for my friend.
Two weeks later, she told me that her husband said to her, "I'm sorry for how I have treated you. I understand you wanting to leave me. Go. I'm moving to California."
I saw him at a gas station a few days before he left, and was amazed at the look he gave me. In that one look I saw that he was a changed man. I felt so much respect for him. What a healing. And I think it's so interesting that this healing was faciltated by a multi-cultural group of churches working together.
Old Blue - I wish I had the same faith in the fat and over aged Americans you say could stop the Greatest Current Military mankind has known in modern history. Of course I am not a Arm Chair Warrior with all the experience of watching the news channels to get my info, so I am sure you guys know better, when it comes to non-trained Americans,(hell, most of you have never been in the military or fired assault weapons) fighting in combat situations. You guys talk big, when there is no action going on, I am not so sure you would stand up against the people we are fighting to stop terrorism around the world. But there is one comforting thought; the wealthy would never allow the Government destroy what they own, which is America!
ALICE - My comments to you that I posted on this blog concerning your comments you made yesterday are no viler than the words you felt you had to use. If you are going to use distasteful remarks about someone you will get the same kind of response. Before you take the high and mighty moral stance about verbal abuse I suggest you and anyone who reads this stuff take a second read on your remarks from the 17th. You can use verbal abuse but when it is returned to you in the same, you start crying verbal abuse! And, there is a reason why women are not placed in direct combat roles in our military. You have made my point, about women and men being different from their hormones that produce different results in nature. As we evolved nature made the male species of every kind of animal and insect to be larger, more muscular and more aggressive. Except for certain species like the Black Widow who eats the male after mating! If you do not like that, start taking male hormones and you can have the same characteristics as a man and you will be more aggressive. Younger men are stronger with more muscle mass and more aggressive than older men because with age animals produce less hormones, which is nature’s decision in how we are composed not mine. Also as we evolved nature made the males larger, stronger and more aggressive to defeat any threats and to pass on the genes to the animal who won the "battle" to mate. You have a computer look it up on Google under difference in the male and female species!
As far as being angry, when it comes to someone who knows very little about a war, that I and millions of Americans took part in and you use remarks to basically diminish what they did as comrades in arms, your damn right I will get angry and respond in a forceful manner. About being an aged "Hippie", your remarks sound as if you were a left winger marching and spitting on our men and women when they were lucky enough to have made it home.
Old Blue - the aircraft that you remarked about is a bi-plane that is located at our local airport in S. Call. As far as being a smart ass about what I flew in Vietnam, you probably were one of those guys who sat on their ass during this time period while others served. My new picture is an A-1 Skyraider which was used to give cover to ground personnel when they were rescued from a downed aircraft or a revac of troops being overrun. Of course you would know nothing about what happened there, would you!
Abbot - You implied it was a military helicopter that was flying heroin for cash. ALL military aircraft in Vietnam were painted in our colors to eliminate friendly fire bringing one down and killing American men and women. The North Vietnamese Air Force flew Russian aircraft, totally different from ours. To remark it was not fired upon by the N. Vietnamese implies it was an American aircraft. That was my point in my comments.
Anyone else have any more questions about our troops and military engagements during that time period, or does anyone have any more remarks to put down our military and how they served this country?
Kend - Why don't you write the President a letter, I am sure he is not aware of the fiscal problems here and all around the World, thanks to a Republican President, Mr. Bush who allowed the Banksters on Wall St. to destroy economies around the World. You’re so concerned with putting down those terrible Democrats why not get a dual citizenship so you can vote and help the Republicans to continue to kill off the Middle Class and the Poor. You never seem to mention how Bush helped get us here with 2 wars and his help to crash the banks by changing the regulations that allowed these people to sell illegal derivatives and debt swaps that helped to destroy economies everywhere while making billions illegally! You conservatives remind me of people who stand around complaining about the Fire Dept. while they are trying to put out a three alarm fire, and when the fire is extinguished and Firemen and Women almost lose their lives, you complain about the damage and how they could have done a better job! So typical of the conservatives in every country!
To be a Republican today, one must be Rich, Cruel, or Politically Ignorant, and they are not mutually exclusive.
Both 'options' are "Yes"? So much for "choice"... LOL
Actually, the =only= choice correctly should be "Yes", which only leaves the discussion up to 'will they or won't they'. And this is where it gets decidedly "sticky". OTOH, there'll be folks who want it done, but not really, because it will further aggravate the already-serious division of the population/opinion/whatever in this country, for no real effect. OTOH, there'll be some folks who will just shrug it off as nothing more than "politics as usual" .. as if that actually excuses something.
Personally, I think the GOP should be prosecuted "to the HILT" [N.B.Forrest], but doubt there are a pair of .. 'gonads' .. to be found in the entirety of Washington. Yes, the GOP has gotten to the point in their unmitigated hubris that they openly =brag= about how they are "legally" subverting the government (and plundering and destroying the country). ["Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was 'legal'." - MLK] Yes, they should be openly/publicly and effectively brought up 'short', at the very least. Yes, some of the Party's leaders should be sent to prison, and I do -not- mean a "Club Fed", either.
But =will= they have =any=thing done to them? Nope, not a chance in Hell! They already control the media, and who controls 'the message' controls the outcome. No, it shouldn't be that way, but until Americans stop acting like 'sheeple', that's what we're going to get.
Scared people are dangerous people and as history has proven many times, a few committed (paranoid authoritarion) people can take over a democratic process with hidden agendas and hiding their true odious strategies. When ratios of 56/12 (house seats) are had in Ohio where the actual vote was very close (52% Republican 48% Democrat: if my memory of statistics is right on), something is wrong. But if you ask these constitution toting compulsivly patriotic people if they believe in the concept of one man one vote then in a republic apportion the representatives accordingly most would say absolutly. But when you ask them if that would result in a democratic control of the presidency and both houses of congress they will have all sorts of excuses why their various voter rigging schemes are justified (voter suppression, gerrymandering, court-stacking, ballot manipulation, polling days/hours).
Since I've seen the results of this over six or seven states where there was such a lopsided difference between the democratic vote percentage and the representation democrats recevied, I've wondered why there has been no class action challenging this loss of voter rights by the majority demanding a more equitable way to distrubute the congressional districts. That would bring more moderate candidates into races because no longer could they appeal only to the most extreme of their party but it would also create a space for doing the business of government in a system like ours which depends on compromise. But system rigging has now created a monster which cannot compromise nor act on the wishes of the people they represent but instead represent the wishes of the corporate special interests who pay for their (permanent) elections.
I can't help but notice how good the democrats and your President are at defecting the real problems of the United States. The economy, debt and the deficit. Thom and all the other progressives went on and on about a fair tax on the rich and now that you have your tax increase I am astounded that all your problems are not solved. The fact is you spent 5 years on it, President Obama got elected on it, and it didn't change a thing As I said over and over. So now it's guns I think we all know that these new executive orders are going to do little or nothing but a great job of deflecting the real failures of this current government putting people back to work. Sorry to remind you but you are 16.5 trillion in debt about $52,000 a person and your government doesn't even talk about It. I just don't understand why you don't seem to care or even talk about it on the left. I deal internationally and with all due respect the world is starting to look at the US like the neighbor who bought a new boat, RV, Pool, hot tub, caddy, and he only makes 32,000 a year and we are wondering how you are going to pay for it. Doesn't this worry you guys?
Palindromidary: You're spot on as usual. I agree completely that the US military would be of no use here in putting down a general insurgency, for the same reason that the old USSR had to use elements from their very ethnically diverse population from one region to put down trouble in another. The Chinese do the same thing today. But the USA is so homogenous (with the possible exception of a few counties in the deep south;-) that few in the military would participate once it reached a certain level. What would they do, drop a nuke on Phoenix, AZ? As for giving up our guns, we'll be in a world of hurt the day that happens. I believe that the Framers added the Second Amendment as the ultimate "check" in the check and balance system. When one considers what our government has been willing to do elsewhere in the name of "keeping the world safe for democracy", it takes little imagination to envision what could happen at home, absent an armed citizenry. And the fact that the US population is so heavily armed is the best insurance policy we have against that outcome. Like you, I hope it never comes to armed insurrection here. I'm a progressive and some would describe me as a bleeding heart Liberal, but on this one issue I'm very conservative.
I second what David says. David knew Thom personally so can speak in a way the rest of us can't But for the rest of us, I think all you have to do is read "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight" and "The Phrophet's Way" to know where Thom is coming from and what kind of man he is. Having read those books, I hold Thom's views on all things in even higher regard and with high respect. I highly recommend those books to everyone (they are not political books). Someone called in the other day and mentioned Herr Mueller, the subject of "The Phrophet's Way". I wish Thom would talk about him more often on the air and talk more in general about the big-picture "spiritual" (for lack of a better word) issues facing our world today.
I must be experiencing deja vu! Haven't I read this silly tirade and responded already?
Let's not be redundant now, Mr. Ware. Once dose of that was more than enough. But hey- on the other hand if more people read this, your fan base shall expand exponentially out here in Blog Land. Everyone gets to see what kinda class act one should expect of Ken Ware in any debate. Never mind the identity of the opponent, be it a man of his approximate height & weight or a woman half his size. Equal opportunity for all to become targets of verbal abuse, from a very angry man.
Anyway it's been interesting, but I really must go. More fish to fry. Cheers. - Alice
Palindomedary, I agree it's a scam that management runs on the public. It even happens at the little health food coop near my house. I asked one of the board members why they make so many mistakes at the register and why all of those mistakes seem to be in their favor. He said, "Well, we're trying to figure out who's responsible for entering in the correct prices."
I said, "For three years you have been trying- without success- to find out which of your twenty employees is responsible for entering the prices into the store's computer?"
We watch out for each other. That's what we do.