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Beyond your unwarranted hostility towards PD, I've spotted numerous weak spots in your argument. For starters, your apparent assumption that these drugs are "highly tested". Are you aware that the FDA gets much (if not all) of its funding from Big Pharma; from the very entity it's supposed to be regulating in our behalf?! This explains why, over the past thirty-plus years, the FDA has grown impotent enough to have become virtually worthless, at least where the general wellbeing of the public is concerned. One need only examine those long lists in Public Citizen's newsletter to get the picture. What you'll see is an endless stream of toxic quack remedies that maim and kill, inadequately scrutinized before passing through the loose weave of FDA constraints into public hands. Any regulatory agency or entity funded by the people they're supposed to be regulating might as well not even exist, for it has become worthless... All pretense, no substance! "Highly tested", my A$$.
(Reply to #14, con't) PD's suggestion that financial ruin and its consequences could be a cause of depression in many of its sufferers is not only legitimate; it shows empathy and compassion. His overall take on the issue of psychotropic meds and their dangers is well supported by several articles he has shared; not just one. Certainly seems enough to make a convincing argument that these drugs are bad news when prescribed to certain people. Since most of these killers have been young white males, this indicates certain sociocultural factors involved, along with whatever vulnerabilities they may have to these drugs that are medically based.
(Reply to #14, con't) Your own comments are what strike me as irrational, sir. For example, accusing PD of "ranting" when all he has done is expres his opinion. What, specifically, has PD said that would indicate this lack of sensitivity you claim his comments have shown, towards depressed individuals on psychotropic medications? Not to mention the tone of your diatribe, much closer to a "rant" than anything I've read of PD's!
As to "comparing" that general population to psychotic killers, as if this were presented by PD as a matter of "guilt by association"... where is the evidence of that?! Having actually seen photos of various mass shooters, he's observed a pattern that seems worth mentioning, from his point of view (and mine). So what's the big deal?
Ken Ware- You need to lighten up, man. Otherwise if you're gonna dish it out, you'd best be ready to take it. Your scathing response to comments made by Palindromedary, much earlier in this thread, seem to have come from nowhere and are entirely without provocation. I'm completely baffled, by the tone as well as the content of your missive.
I understand that you have strong opinions and that you reserve the right to express them as you see fit. But why must you assassinate the character of anyone whose commentary you happen to disagree with?! Having read PD's response to that article ("Shooters" by Steven Taylor), I won't claim to agree with every point made by him; however I observe nothing in PD's comments that could be legitimately tagged as "thoughtless" or "offensive".
Seems to me that PD has done enough reading on the subject to have earned the right to an opinion, whether you or anyone agrees with it or not. Since sharing his response to that first article, PD has given several other examples of articles supporting his premise that psychotropic drugs have been a major factor in mass shootings.
What people forget, the 40 hour week didn't come because of technology but because workers united, fought and died for it. A 25 hour week will not come in any but the same way. Without workers' power being exercised, not only will they not get a shorter work week but, as they become more obsolete, will be eradicated like so many cockroaches by the ruling elites as were the Native Americans.
The capitalists will, of course, by doing that, cut their own throats, as Marx predicted, as technology, i.e., machines, don't buy their products.
Kend: Yes, I see that you two are two peas in a pod. So Happy together. dah, dah, dah, dah.
US Government using the Internet to create the perception of false majorities to use peer pressure to undermine the very cornerstones of democracy? The evidence continues to mount that they not only are, but doing so both domestically and internationally.
This is a short video (about 5 minutes) of a TV news broadcast from Channel 4 in New Orleans showing how IP addresses traced back to the Army Corp of Engineers that originated many comments on blogs and other social commentary sites who did not fess up to the fact that they were actually working for the Army Corp of Engineers when they participated in defending the government, and attacking and belittling citizens expressing their views. And if they were doing it then...they certainly are now everywhere else.
http://www.youtube.com/user/LeveesOrg?v=jDwuMBOPrrQ&lr=1
http://levees.org/personal-attacks-and-lies-posted-to-internet-by-army-c...
Unemployment Insurance benefits are only extended "again and again" in periods of deep recession. These are periods of low employment and thus low demand for goods and services. There is not, in such periods, a great availability of jobs or very many if ANY jobs going unfilled. Quite the contrary. There are literaly tens of applicants - sometimes hundreds - for each job. Thus with regard to UI or welfare, the economy - or, for that matter, society in general - doesn't suffer from a shortage of willing, able workers because of either of those programs. The expenditure for them is pretty miniscule and well spent. They are a stimulus to the economy, creating demand - and therefore, jobs. Programs like Food Stamps are, in that way, a boon to the agricultural sector.
As to whether welfare causes dependancy, statistics of welfare recipients before 1996, when the "reform" legislation was passed and a lifetime limit of 5 years was imposed, show that they were overwhelmingly of the working poor who worked full time supplementing their incomes with food stamps, some cash or vouchers and typically would go, alternately, on and off the program rolls with changes in the business cycle, their ability to get better jobs and other aspects of their personal fortunes.
Unemployment insurance has many features built in that are meant to prevent dependancy. A beneficiary must demonstrate they are looking for a job and may not refuse an offer of a job without forfeiting the UI benefits; other than periods of deep recession, the maximum time limit for receiving benefits is 6 months; also, there is a limit to the amount of the weekly benefit with a maximum of about $400, but in any case, the amount is significantly less than the amount someone would earn working. So, then, a beneficiary of UI must be looking for a job, receives an amount much less than if they were working, and, whatever the case may be, couldn't possibly be "dependant" on UI for more than 6 months.
Holy crap Ken we agree on something. With all do respect Palindromdary I think Ken W is right on this one. Wow I can't believe I agree with something Ken Ware said. I better go see the doctor I may have a chemical imbalance or something.
I find it amazing how occupy was destroyed yet teabagger still here !!!!
I must chime in here...
I won't say that "gun control policy" is irrational, however banning guns, and clip capacity in hope of giving the "victim(s)" a better chance of survival isn't going to resolve the issues of a generation entertained by graffic violence and gratuatous sex. Add to that millions of people with mental illness who are miss diagnoised and either improperly treated or untreated and you begin to see a dangerous pattern with severe and tragic results. Six shooters, Knives, Gasoline and a match, etc. can and have been weapons of mass destruction in the hands of mentally unstable people.
I am not going to be foolish and say that mentally healthy people never "flip out" and do terrible things, but I will say when you have young children who are pumped full of meds for behaviour/mental issues and then spend hours a day interacting in simulated violent games; which are very simmilar to the combat simmulations used to train todays combat soldier, their sense of reality is warped and the results are often devistating.
When young people (age 5 to 15) - especially those with behaviour/mental health issues - spend hours each day repeatedly playing simulated violent games and then repeatedly hear and see the exploited violence happening daily around them, they become programmed for violence and their reality with coping becomes increasingly hostle and violent. In other words repeated exposure to graphic violence as entertainment can and does result in violent behaivor...Programmed Killer! Guns are not the sole problem...You must include what we exploit as entertainment, along with how we treat each other.
Before We the People give up any more of our Liberties and Rights - like we foolishly did in the wake of 9/11 - lets address the real elephant in the room...How we - a hostle society - equate vengence as absolute justice. How we - a hypacritical society - talk about peace, respect, humanity, etc. and then violate the rights and wellbeing of others for our own selfish gain.
Aliceinwonderland: Sorry, not my intention. And good for you...sticking by what you believe.
I didn't conjure up or imagine all those things you pointed out...I learned of them through news reports and what I have read on technology reports. I am very technologically aware that these things are very doable. And as for the kitchen appliances spying on us...I didn't imagine that either...I read that from a statement that a former CIA director had made..maybe he's the one that is paranoid. But at least from a technological standpoint he was right on. It would have been more difficult to do before ipv6, but not much.
its fair to u to run debt up so high its put everybody at risk to foriegn powers. and the financal well being of this country
and then ask the rich to bail out the federal gov. wow you need better morals than that.
I listened to your report it sounds convincing if I were still in high school. Which im not. The report of yours is missing a key part of this bustof Churchill. Yes your your quote of the Embassy is correct, but that is not the only words from the Embassy.
1st the bust would not be already gome before the president got there, obama or anybody for that matter makes the calls to who,what, when, where, why, and how things are being taking out of his office: So no it wasnt gone before he got there,
2nd the Embassy didnt call up asking for the bust back Britsh have more manners than that. The communication started with the white house and if anything is being taken out of obamas' office and being shipped back and its worth 100s of thousands of dollars you can be darn sure obama is the one making the cal,l not the staff or other polical figures, on when this bust is to be moved out. He is the president the thing is worth alot of money nobody in there right mind would just take control of the situation and send a bust back simple as that. you must think your audience are dumb as logs.
3rd the quote you failed to mention of the embassy is, when Obama called to return the bust he was offered and its quoted the embassy made it perfectly clear that obama can keep the bust for his term if he wants to, white house answer was " thanks , but no thanks" there is plenty of room for lincoln and churchill, so lincoln is no excuse, it was an offering from the british of a gift that ment alot to them and our relationship with them.
4th why do you play games with the media about pur country and our well being, you know perfectly well how you report the news. or i should say the news that somebody else reported correctly, after you twist it around and leave parts out of reports that totally cjange the report by doing so, or changes the demographics of the report. form being a idiotic move for dems. to you making it a racial evil act from the GOP. when our debt is so high is unmanagable and your shows get cut you will be asking for help but your help went to pay the interest on things today that you vote for and approve of.
LAST- - - report the truth in its entirety or at least the entirety of what you know to be. im sure your still blaming bush for obamas 2013 budget which has a deficit of over a trillion again, obamas average deficit is = to clintons entire spending his first year in office. IM CALLING YOU A LIAR
Geez PD- You're tiring me out! But I remain unswayed. Have a lovely weekend. - Aliceinwonderland
Palindromedary - What I find troubling in the comments you make is that there is this constant mentioning how everything is a conspiracy. It sounds like for every subject mentioned, you find a conspiracy by some governmental agency or people in general and if someone points this out to you, you come back with more theories of conspiracy. Not to sound to condemning of your reasoning, but you sound like a person suffering from a form of paranoia. And I have mentioned this to you in comments or replies to your conspiracy theories in the past. You actually believe the government brought down the Twin Towers in N.Y., as well as several other situations. In all sincerity you appear to have some type of paranoia yourself. I would recommend you look into this problem, but like many others that suffer from this mental illness, you will simply deny you have a problem. Do you always live in this state of fear that someone is conspiring to do something to you if they know your name. You recently mentioned that a person has to do everything possible to hide their identity because some entity could be out to get them. So I imagine you feel Facebook and Twitter are governmental spy agency, so the government can spy on all Americans. Do you have a habit of looking out of your windows at home to make sure no one is watching you? Do you really think that manikins might have cameras in their eyes to watch you as you pass by? I have also heard you comment that several household appliances might have concealed equipment in them to monitor your personal life. Doesn't that sound a little paranoid to you? Living in constant fear that you are being watched can lead to a mental state of paranoia. You must live in a very scary world with all the people you think are watching you. Sad...
During past radio shows I've heard Thom Hartmann point out how unemployed people in other countries receive such benefits for longer periods of time, if not indefinitely. But hey, that's not the American way! Here in the good ole USA, we kick 'em when they're down. When the economy crashes & burns, and people lose their homes and their livelihoods, who cares if it's not their fault- let's just blame the victims anyway! Let 'em fend for themselves against the elements. After all, for anyone desiring to make an honest living, there's plenty of jobs around. There's no excuse for joblessness. Anyone who's unemployed and on unemployment insurance is simply a deadbeat and a loser... Right? Nope. I'm not buying it. - Aliceinwonderland
Let's not forget, many of the unemployed & homeless were middle class once, before they lost everything. An illness, an accident, a job gone "Poof!" or outsourced... You know, the kind of stuff that happens only to lazy deadbeat losers! Right?
I wonder how many of those people screwed by junk mortgages or quack insurance, or lost jobs to outsourcing, supported so-called welfare "reform" and other such "reforms" before their own worlds came tumbling down.
"SHFabian said: "The middle class made it very clear that extended periods on aid (regardless of what one calls it) drains a person of the incentive to get up and find a job. This is why it was decided that any sort of poverty relief provided to the able-bodied must be very time-limited..." and "If government extends Unemployment Insurance once, they'll be asked to do it again, and again, and we'll end up with a welfare system, putting us all in danger of UI dependency. Right?
Wrong, Mr. Fabian. First of all, who appointed you as Spokesman for the Middle Class? As if they all were in lockstep with their thinking, like those Teabagger ditto heads. I'm sure it would suit you just fine if they all looked down on those less fortunate than themselves. I've more than a hunch it's really just yourself you're speaking for rather than an whole class of people.
Yes, and I think we can start by reassessing why these individuals do the things they do..what are the root causes..what can we do to tackle the root causes. The guns are not the root causes. Neither are the knives and clubs used against children in China or the 500,000-1,000,000 victims in Rwanda...mostly all done by using machettes and clubs. The Catholic Church is trying to keep a distance from any responsibility that might tend to blight religion...claiming only that the church did not authorize the genocide....
You can create more laws to ban guns and you may succeed in making it more difficult for some people to get them legally. But then they can always get the guns from their neighbors (like William Spengler)...and if not, then they can break into someone's house and steal the guns..or buy them from Mexican Drug gangs who bought them from ATF. And, let's not forget that once you manage to either ban guns or tax or heavily insure them, there are so many other ways of doing mass destruction to schools or other places of mass congregation of people...and they would cause just as much, or even greater carnage than assault rifles. How do you control what a potential arsonist with a few gallons of gasoline will do...what about fertilizer (AKC Fed Bldg)..or any number of other things...either chemical or biological?
Sure, let's solve all our problems by either banning guns or taxing them to death or having to buy expensive insurance...that way only those who have money can get whatever they want and everyone else will be at their mercy if the time of confrontation ever comes. Rich people with the latest in assault weapons will have their oppressive thumbs smashing everyone who can't afford it into the ground ..much like they do now but even more so. And you still have not solved or even made a dent in the root problems.
What is the price or value of the lives of those who have died in dollars? That's what insurance is, isn't it, lives equated to dollars? I believe that no matter how much you make something illegal, or how many laws you write, or how much insurance or taxes you impose you will never make a dent in these kinds of outbreaks until we start addressing the root of the problem..and no one wants to address that.
The root of the problem is what motivates people into doing such things. And institutionalizing people, if they are even detected in time, is such an expensive and wasteful endeavor which also does not tackle the root of the problem. It just covers it all up till someone else flips out.
Behavior modification has to start with how we are all exposed to the stresses of inequalities and exposure to arrogant treatment by those who are either richer than everyone else or who are bigger and more powerful than everyone else who, themselves, have attitude problems. It has to do with what makes people feel insecure even from early school experiences. It has to start with the realization that our society has to begin to put reigns on the excessive materialization and runaway egos that we are all exposed to throughout life. I am not preaching a religion...I am actually an atheist. So I certainly don't think a belief in God, Jesus, or Buddha, or any other mythical icon will fix things...more people have died from their disagreements on minutiae of theology than from most everything else except maybe trying to steal what others have.
Sure, there are those who may have been born with a condition...a chemical imbalance...who need to be cared for and watched...treated with drugs, perhaps. But many more cases occur from exposures to the constant stresses of a confusing and cruel world.
But, we certainly must put dampers on the excessive commercialism and stop generating the attitudes that unless you claw your way to the top of the dung heap you are nothing. And the current war being waged against the majority of the people by the uber wealthy..the arrogant ones..are largely responsible for all of the angst, stress, and feelings of dread and hopelessness, that can drive many people crazy....make people take dangerous SSRT anti-depressants...which can further drive one to do aggressive and hostile things. Certainly no one wants to talk about that...especially the Pharmaceuticals and politicians or even those who may be taking these drugs. And if these people can't get hold of guns...they'll likely use the more easily gotten weapons, like gasoline.. fertilizer...etc.... that can be even more dangerous than assault rifles. The religious group Aum Shinrikyo, in 1995, had no problem using Sarin nerve gas in Tokyo's subway system to kill a lot of people. And don't make the mistake that only dummies will do these kinds of things...most of those people in that Aum Shinrikyo group were very well educated with various doctors degrees and held important positions "Sarin is relatively simple to make from materials that are available on the open market." http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg14519700.400-tokyos-deadly-nerve-g...
Anders Breivik, although he ended up using a high powered assault weapon to kill 76 people had previously thought about murdering thousands of people using biological or chemical or even nuclear waste weapons. And then there was the Rajneeshee Cult in Oregon who put Salmonella bacteria on various Salad Bars in 1984. There have been incidents of people going into Super Markets and poisoning food...which led to the so-called tamper proof seals.
We need to stop our military industrial complex and all their Pentagon and political toadies from propagandizing us with their weapons of mass destruction...ideas of American Exceptionalism and portraying war crimes as necessary in a struggle to preserve "our way of life"...yeah..."our way of life"..not much different than what the Vikings, Romans, and other ancient plunderers believed in.
Dorothy Thompson, an American journalist and author, once said “There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the causes of happenings.”
No one still...knows just why Aum Shinrikyo did what it did...it is still a mystery...does anyone really know why any of those people did what they did? What caused them to act in such a manner?
Well, I certain agree with you on that one! Why do you need prescriptions from a doctor to get medicines you know you need, and had already been prescribed by doctors before anyway, for chronic diseases like asthma...or even blood pressure medicines? I don't see a problem with Sudafed either...except it is used to make illegal drugs. But our government has no righteous, holier-than-thou position on illegal drugs anyway since they have been importing them since before Vietnam. They are just protecting the real pharmaceutical racket monopolies..the real drug lords of the US.
I appreciate where you are coming from, PD, and share much of your worldview. Your anti-authoritarian attitude rings my bell. I think our similarities far outweigh our differences. But when it comes to issues as complex as this one regarding guns & violence, there are so many facets and so many angles from which it can be assessed, it is possible for completely opposing views to each have a ring of truth. The same goes for that old argument we progressives keep having each election cycle, over whether or not voting the "lesser evil" is the wisest choice (which warrants a whole other debate). But getting back to my main point: we're just gonna have to cut each other some slack here & there where we can't agree. I still can respect, and even appreciate, your side of the debate where our positions diverge. - Aliceinwonderland
With all the guns in US how come no one ever seems to have one when these terrible things happen.
Back to the fiscal cliff as a Canadian I am told to mind my own business so this is just a suggestion. Raise taxes to people who make $500,000 plus 2% and lower everyone else by 2% and cut every federal deptments budget by 2%. Done. Happy New Year everyone.
Palindromedary- with all due respect to your well-thought-out opinions (and obviously, high level of intelligence), I doubt we will ever agree on this issue of gun control. I find it more than a little ironic how, here in the Wild, Wild West, there are more bureaucratic hurdles to deal with purchasing something like Sudafed than there are for purchasing a gun. Sorry my friend, but I've got a problem with that.
Licensing cars or ourselves as drivers doesn't deprive us of the freedom to drive; in my view it can be the same with guns. I agree, socioeconomic problems fueling these mass shootings go well beyond the guns themselves. But this does not change the fact that guns, unlike cars, are expressly for the purpose of killing. And while such laws are not going to take guns out of the hands of dangerous (or at-risk) individuals already in possession, I think we've gotta start somewhere addressing this problem. You & I can argue about this 'til we're both blue in the face; seems obvious enough, neither of us is gonna budge on our positions regarding gun control- to have or not to have.