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@ Quark
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. I've been absent here for some time until today. Sometimes life's curveballs have a way of changing itineraries. I sure would like to meet the artist. Tell him to bring you along. Duluth has some pretty good restaurants you know. Tell me how to find him, will you? What is his SD in the Second CD? (That is code that you'll understand). Be good to yourself. People care about you. You come up and I'll buy you dinner!
re canadian health care:
which is better:
in canada, actually seeing a doctor, being evaluated, getting immediate care if you need it, and getting placed on a waiting list if your condition is considered non- urgent (ie, triage)
or
is usa, being one of the 45,000 people who will die each year because they cannot even reach the first step of seeing a doctor
if the system in canada is "rationed" health care, I will take that every time over our system
So if political connections get you to the front of the line in Canada health care system why didn't the Governer of whatever he was in Canada just have his heart operation in Canada instead of coming to Florida?
The facts are he wanted a less invasive procedure that wouldn't leave a scar and they didn't see that as a viable operation in Canada so he came to Florida close to his winter home and paid for it himself.
These people make me scream.
I've forgotten what a smart group it is in large part that gathers here. WELL SAID LeMoyne!
DDay,
I missed you, too! I don't think so, but my husband is. (DDay, I have had to back off due to the PTSD I have been suffering...)
Amendment 1 to the US Constitution
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The 1st Amendment guarantees all those on the left and the right who hold the legitimate strong disagreement with the government mandate to buy health insurance from private corporations to PEACEABLY assemble on the Capitol lawn. The 1st Amendment is no guarantee of the right to throw bricks at Congressional offices, yell hate speech at and send images of lynching to members or Congress. It is certainly not a guarantee of the right to purposeful spitting on members of Congress.
The Democrats are responsible only indirectly. By passing what is essentially a Republican plan (mandate without public option) they disheartened their progressive/liberal base. If they were voting for a strong public option there would have been more people happily partying on the Capitol Lawn than angrily spitting. The Democrats are responsible only in that they did not emphasize the obvious: all the rights in the Constitution dont amount to a bucket of spit if you're dead - the right to life is primary and a priori essential to all other rights.
Rick's got it right. I've lived in Toronto all my life and have had a lot of illness in my immediate family and the wait times are over rated. Critical situations go to the front of the cue.
How is it that the DCCC or whoever has never conducted a poll of Canadians about our health care system? I guarantee you it will be in the 60-70% approval range, at a minimum.
Paul
Before I go...Hey Quark! I've missed you. Are you going to Duluth on the 23rd.?
As a Canadian, I apologize for this guy; his 'Fraser Institute' is our 'Heritage Foundation'..
Bull (moose) pucky, the lot.
Rick
@bravobravo. Wrong. The way you oppose policies that you don't like in a democracy is through words, and at the ballot box. Violence to support what you consider to be "worthwhile" goals undermines democracy and will result in an authoritarian state where you will have NO input into policy at all. You'd prefer that?
The temptation to violence can be strong, but it is inevitably self-destructive. As frustrating as working within the system can be, it will in the end result in preferable outcomes for everybody than will violence. Even revolution can only be a last resort, when there truly is NO input into policy, because revolution risks introducing something much worse and much harder to remove than a representative democracy, however flawed.
Quell your frustration, redirect that energy into hard work, and bring about change patiently and persistently. To do otherwise is to attempt to put out a fire by drowning it with gasoline.
@ Albatross
Agreed and well said. >>>God I'm starting to sound like Thom>>>>I better get outta here! :-0
Thom,
For me, your conversation with Matthew vadum was a waste of airtime and stomach bile. I wish you wouldn't give this same old crap the time that you do.
Yes, Matthew, the rich go to the front of the line no matter where you go.
I almost thought I tuned into Rush by mistake. Glad the break finally came.
Remember that the quality of health care is not the same as access to health care. The USA may have the "best" health care in the world, but that's irrelevant to the argument.
@DDay: thanks for your comments. I agree that the world is more complex than authoritarians vs. democrats, but how complex can I get in a comment box? I think for the purposes of political analysis this categorization scheme is useful for explaining several phenomena, like the habituation of some Democrats to seek Republican approval, the reluctance of so-called Christians to support a health care bill that promotes the Biblical calls to help the poor and sick, and the real meaning behind the words "conservative" and "liberal," which have so drifted from their literate meaning as to be nearly useless. There's nothing "conservative" about opposing the democratic process, and there's little "liberal" about Obama (IMHO), but translate that into "Authoritarian teabaggers oppose Obama's democratic policies" and suddenly it makes sense.
There is no doubt that pols received thousands of calls over the weekend. What is not tallied is how many calls were pro and con.
That's regulation - not fascism!!
@Nels:re: democrats..their usual tactic is to form a commission to study the issue. and Osama (were he still alive) would get a guest shot on "Dancing with the Stars", paired with Jane Fonda.
correction: Make that scores of types and subsets.
@ Albatross
I agree with your general theme but believe it is much more complicated than your postulate that there are only two types of citizens the authoritarians vs, the democrats. Oh that it was so. The lives of political professionals would be so much easier. The are sores of types and subsets. Identifying the issues that bring otherwise diverse groups together to form blocks of votes is usually the key to political success. It is a lot like chemistry and forming new bonds between different elements. The combinations are almost infinite. It is a battle for the middle group, (independents), who form no lasting bonds with either side.
This current infatuation with the language of violence might be considered in the context of the way American History has been taught for generations. Kids learn that the country was founded in revolution and settled by violence beginning with the Indian wars prior to the American Revolution and continuing through Afghanistan. Kids memorize the names of generals and dates of famous battles. The recurring message is that freedom exists only because people took up arms, killed and died.
Left out, or minimized, is a serious discussion of how this violence was manipulated by people in positions of economic power to divide the masses into competing factions while the elites remain safe and secure with their wealth. The issue of class conflict is derided as "communist" propaganda, and a series of "Horatio Algers" are trotted out to prove that in our "free society" anyone can succeed.
But, an increasing number of people are not successful and are looking for someone to blame. Once again the media elite are defining the problem in terms of black and white, Left and Right. The mob is being incited to take out it's wrath against the instruments of democratic power -- congress, and a black president -- rather than look deeper to see who holds the real power over an economic system that is turning the middle and working classes into modern day serfs and vassals to the corporate "nobility".
With the stupidity of the recent Texas board of Education decision about text books, we see once again that evolution towards a civil, communitarian, secular society is not going to come through education, or a different historical paradigm. The Christians long for the return of Jesus, which, can only happen through the violent upheaval of "Armageddon". The Fascists long for a society that runs under the authoritarian rules of the Corporation, effected by the totalitarian police state. For both groups, violence is essential for the ultimate plan to unfold.
Anyhow, while I think I understand the problem, I'm not sure I can see an answer so long as violence and blood bring more profit than losses to those at the top.
Thom asks how do we stop the hate. I don’t think you can stop it, just subvert the conditions in which it thrives. For example, I have said this many, many times here on this blog that I feel that the so-called mainstream media has helped foster an atmosphere conducive to hate by portraying certain groups in strictly negative terms. There are over 30 million Latinos in this country who are U.S. citizens or legal residents. But what do we see on television? Illegal immigrants, people running through the desert, people climbing fences, people being arrested, businesses getting busted, drug violence. That’s about 95 percent of it. How can those who even claim to be free from bigotry not be effected by this? Every time a black male celebrity or sports icon is accused of a crime or some activity that offends tender sensitivities—usually something that has to do with sex—the media finds it impossible to control itself. Why? Because it’s a ratings winner. The need to stereotype and feed commonly-held beliefs is always lurking somewhere; it just needs a visual spark to ignite.
Political discourse, of course, can foster an atmosphere of hate. In the South and other Republican bastions, white politicians have always played-off working-class whites against blacks (and blacks against Latinos). They know that working class whites and minorities have more in common economically than with the social and economic elites (practically all U.S. senators, except maybe Obama when he was one, are millionaires), but race separation has been ingrained in the fabric of Southern discourse, like an ugly tattoo you can’t get rid of. In 1990, Harvey Gantt seemed poised to defeat Jesse Helms; but Helms knew his voter, and at the last minute appealed to lingering racial paranoia with his infamous ad. When Harold Ford Jr. was making Bob Corker sweat in the 2006 Tennessee senatorial race, Corker released a radio ad with jungle drums, and later the TV ad featuring Ford in the company of a blond white woman, which, not amazingly enough, was sufficient to incite the racist paranoia to put Corker over the top by a few thousand votes.
I don’t know. Even in Democratic bastions where you would think such tactics have less play, there are always other issues, like jobs and access to higher education, that excites the need to differentiate. As I said at the top, the best that can be done is to reduce the toxic emissions in the atmosphere that allow hate to thrive.
To Osama B. Laden, we have a much better punishment then death in store for KSM. He'll get a TV in his cell that's get's two things, Fox News and Reality TV programming. After 10 hrs of Jersey Shore he'll be begging for a hanging.
I think the Democrats (like any animal) has found that fighting back is the only thing to do when cornered.