I have some trust left in Obama. We will be 90% out of this way before Congress comes back from another vacation. This is mostly a Navy operation with no US boots on the ground. As I saw the ship inventory listed in the Med, we don't even have a carrier air group in the area. If we save the freeedom fighters from being massacred, it will be worth the financial cost.
As a Veteran and a graduate of History, I am distraught at the events that are unfolding. We have not declared war, yet our actions have placed us in a 4th War. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and now Libya. There isn't any other word for it. Our credibility in the Middle East and the world is very suspect. As President Eisenhower feared, we have become a Military Industrial Complex. As a progressive, I believe we should not only put an end to the ongoing wars, but immediately stop the use of Private Security Forces. Although I could spend a great deal of time talking about the Privatisation of far too many Government functions, I can think of none more dangerous than making war a means to achieve profit. Our Armed Forces should be used for Defence only. We need bold progressive leadership in so many things. I can think of none more important than this.
This is Western Imperialism masked as a humanitarian intervention. What's going on is a "civil war" and the U.S. and NATO intervening is akin to the British Empire intervening on the half of the South during the American Civil War. Libya is a sovereign nation and for better or worse Qaddafi/Ghaddafi is the leader of Libya and I would imagine that he does have the loyalty of a significant segment of that nations population. This is like De Ja Vu when you look at Western/NATO intervention in the civil wars in Bosnia and southern Serbia (Kosovo) in the 90's. The Western intervention in the Balkan wars against the Serbs was largely aimed at weakening Russia's closest ally in the region. Thus diminishing Russia's influence and making way for oil and natural gas pipelines from the Caspian to the Black Sea and finally to the Mediterranean Sea. As for Libya. It has the largest oil reserves in North Africa. That fact alone takes some of the guess work out of the possible motives the U.S., U.K., France and other NATO nations have in meddling in the Libyan civil war.
I'm surprised at you Thom for using such a "push poll." You left off the 3rd alternative, that the Commander in Chief can only engage in military action under the limitations of the War Powers Act. The WPA requires timely notice to Congress - which President Obama met - and limits action to 60 days unless Congress approves continued action. If we went strictly by the wording of the Constitution it would severely limit the Commander in Chief from meeting urgent demands. I have too much respect for you to let this ride - even the wise Thom Hartmann can sometimes violate his own principles of transparency and honesty and airing all sides of an argument, even those with which he disagrees. Since you left off that 3rd option many of us can't vote in this poll.
Here is an excerpt from the War Powers Resolution of 1973: President can send U.S. armed forces into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or if the United States is already under attack or serious threat.
The Libyan Adventure fails on the terms of both counts.
The War Powers Resolution though ratified twice, and over a presidential veto. Still does not supercede the wording of The U.S. Constitution. It actually gives the President too much additional power. This brings to mind that the sitting President has neglected his duties to the U.S. Constitution, and has committed an Act Of War, in violation of Article one Section eight of The U.S. Constitution. The 112TH Congress shall now have to take him to task, on this serious infraction, along with the Citizens of each individual State.
Thom lived in in Michigan's UP (written about in "The Prophet's Way")
From Screwed:
"Once again, Thom Hartmann hits the bull’s eye with a much needed exposé of the so-called ‘free market.’ Anyone concerned about the future of our nation needs to read Screwed now."
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From Screwed:
"Hartmann speaks with the straight talking clarity and brilliance of a modern day Tom Paine as he exposes the intentional and systematic destruction of America’s middle class by an alliance of political con artists and outlines a program to restore it. This is Hartmann at his best. Essential reading for those interested in restoring the institution that made America the envy of the world."
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I have some trust left in Obama. We will be 90% out of this way before Congress comes back from another vacation. This is mostly a Navy operation with no US boots on the ground. As I saw the ship inventory listed in the Med, we don't even have a carrier air group in the area. If we save the freeedom fighters from being massacred, it will be worth the financial cost.
As a Veteran and a graduate of History, I am distraught at the events that are unfolding. We have not declared war, yet our actions have placed us in a 4th War. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and now Libya. There isn't any other word for it. Our credibility in the Middle East and the world is very suspect. As President Eisenhower feared, we have become a Military Industrial Complex. As a progressive, I believe we should not only put an end to the ongoing wars, but immediately stop the use of Private Security Forces. Although I could spend a great deal of time talking about the Privatisation of far too many Government functions, I can think of none more dangerous than making war a means to achieve profit. Our Armed Forces should be used for Defence only. We need bold progressive leadership in so many things. I can think of none more important than this.
This is Western Imperialism masked as a humanitarian intervention. What's going on is a "civil war" and the U.S. and NATO intervening is akin to the British Empire intervening on the half of the South during the American Civil War. Libya is a sovereign nation and for better or worse Qaddafi/Ghaddafi is the leader of Libya and I would imagine that he does have the loyalty of a significant segment of that nations population. This is like De Ja Vu when you look at Western/NATO intervention in the civil wars in Bosnia and southern Serbia (Kosovo) in the 90's. The Western intervention in the Balkan wars against the Serbs was largely aimed at weakening Russia's closest ally in the region. Thus diminishing Russia's influence and making way for oil and natural gas pipelines from the Caspian to the Black Sea and finally to the Mediterranean Sea. As for Libya. It has the largest oil reserves in North Africa. That fact alone takes some of the guess work out of the possible motives the U.S., U.K., France and other NATO nations have in meddling in the Libyan civil war.
I'm surprised at you Thom for using such a "push poll." You left off the 3rd alternative, that the Commander in Chief can only engage in military action under the limitations of the War Powers Act. The WPA requires timely notice to Congress - which President Obama met - and limits action to 60 days unless Congress approves continued action. If we went strictly by the wording of the Constitution it would severely limit the Commander in Chief from meeting urgent demands. I have too much respect for you to let this ride - even the wise Thom Hartmann can sometimes violate his own principles of transparency and honesty and airing all sides of an argument, even those with which he disagrees. Since you left off that 3rd option many of us can't vote in this poll.
Hi mblockhart,
Here is an excerpt from the War Powers Resolution of 1973: President can send U.S. armed forces into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or if the United States is already under attack or serious threat.
The Libyan Adventure fails on the terms of both counts.
The War Powers Resolution though ratified twice, and over a presidential veto. Still does not supercede the wording of The U.S. Constitution. It actually gives the President too much additional power. This brings to mind that the sitting President has neglected his duties to the U.S. Constitution, and has committed an Act Of War, in violation of Article one Section eight of The U.S. Constitution. The 112TH Congress shall now have to take him to task, on this serious infraction, along with the Citizens of each individual State.
I'm hoping that this helps. thanks.