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I actually completely agree with reducing the military budget, which is why I don't consider myself a Republican. I'm also convinced and worried about global warming, unlike most right-wingers. I also favor more government regulation of the food industry, after reading some books by Michael Pollan.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything - just stating my side of the issue. I feel like Thom would agree with me that disengagement of people who do not agree with you is one of the reasons for the polarization that is tearing this country apart. In fact, he frequently encourages people to engage with those who disagree with them. Sadly, being only 34 years old, this level of polarization is all I've ever known. Sometimes I wish I could live in a country where everyone thought along the same lines.
I used to be one of those "If it's not on Fox News, it isn't true" types, until about five years ago. I found Thom's show during a time when I had a 90-minute commute home each day, and I liked his style. He has been able to change my mind about some things. I plan on reading some of his books when I have time during my summer vacation.
ChicagoMatt ~ If you want to do the "fancy blue box quotes" I suggest you go to the bottom of the thread below the last Comment box to where it says, "More information about formatting options" The directions are in the link.
Apropos to #33 ~ It only takes one or two brats to ruin the educational experience for the entire class room. Surely anyone who ever attended a private school knows this.
ChicagoMatt ~ This is the argument in a nutshell. Historically, even the most recessed, backwards, poverty stricken rural communities have been able to provide FREE cradle to grave health care and education to their communities. The very suggestion that the most wealthiest and prosperous nation in the history of the world--which has a $1Trillion military budget mind you--can't do the same is a crock of BS. Save your breath!
"I never regretted my decision to fire my private educators and join the state run educational body. Still to this day I do not regret the decision."
That ability to decide what school you wanted to go to is something that proponents of school choice want to give to all students. How many public school students would go to a private school if given the choice? You were in a privledged position of choosing your school. Everyone else should be able to do the same.
About half of my students are low-income, for what it's worth. We give scholarships. Only a few of my students fit the stereotypical private-school-brat persona.
Aliceinwonderland ~ Yeah! Maybe. I grew up having the advantage that Matt is talking about. My parents sent me to one of these private schools. By the time I was a Sophomore in Highschool I had enough of this so called "privilege." I found my fellow students to be spoiled, unruly brats. By then I couldn't stand to be around them. I begged my parents to send me to an overcrowded public school. They were very hesitant but eventually agreed.
I found the environment in a public school to be far more helpful for learning. The discipline in the classroom--albeit larger classrooms--was self induced by the student. The kids here all had the shared need to better themselves and contribute to their families. This was completely lacking in the private school. As a result, I never regretted my decision to fire my private educators and join the state run educational body. Still to this day I do not regret the decision. If I had it all to do over again I would never have enrolled in private education from the beginning.
If you ask me, both Matt and David are completely full of it. Personally, they are not worth my time and effort to engage. Thanks to you, chuckle8, and Palindromedary for jumping on the grenade for me.
"Because a $7000-per-year tuition breaks down to $583 a month. Many families can't afford that, so here's why you see all these students walking past your half-empty classroom on their way to the overcrowded ones."
I apologize - I haven't learned how to do the fancy direct quoting in a blue box thing that I see others using on this site.
But anyway, the point I was trying to make is that, rather than worrying about a "free" taxpayer-funded higher education, we should focus on the lower grades. According to the Chicago Public Schools website, they spend $13,078 per year per student. My school, which gets better results than the public school that I can see down the block from my classroom, would love to take some of those students, and for almost half the price. Given Chicago's current budget crisis, it would make a lot of sense.
The smart way to do this would be to make private school tuition a 100-percent tax write-off. I would support that same deal for higher education. If a student gets into, say, Chicago State, then they or their parents should get a tax break on the tuition.
My wife and I WERE about to write off 25% of our student interest loans, until two years ago when we crossed some sort of income threshold and were no longer able to claim that deduction. Which, (and I know this is something you've all heard before, but it comes from the heart for me), really makes me feel like we are being punished for being successful.
Most educators - myself included - will tell you that the make-or-break years for students are between the fourth and sixth grades. Students who get lost in those years tend to stay lost. If we're going to start talking about catching people who are slipping through the cracks, and helping people be upwardly-mobile, that's the time to do it.
Willie W ~ If you ask me it is a classic example of "Good" Cop vs "Bad Cop". They both put on a huge charade designed to make you surrender that which is not in your best interest.
Who the two parties work for? Now that is the rub isn't it? For the answer to that question I would suggest following the money.
Palindromedary ~ Thanks for that chart. Very eye opening! Actually, very eye popping. Not that I would put it past Obama. After all, even Clinton and Bush Senior were drug dealers. If you ask me, with the only exception of Carter, every president since LBJ had a hand in drug smuggling. Nothing new there. However, it is somewhat shocking to think that Thom Hartmann might be trying to cover up that fact. Someone needs to do some esplain'in.
Palindromedary ~ I'd seriously question the results of one study in the face of so much other evidence and examples. For instance, ask Willie Nelson, Cheech and Chong how their lungs and heart have been holding up. All are in fantastic health for their age and were "trailblazers" for smoking weed.
That said, I have always had my suspicions about any type of smoke ingested directly into the lungs and it's long term effects. Some of the things know about THC when it enters the blood system is that it is a vascular dilator; as opposed to say nicotine which is a vascular constrictor. Obviously a vascular dilator is far better for heart health than a vascular constrictor because of the tiny blood vessels that support the heart. The long term effect of any kind of exposure to smoke in the lungs I have always been skeptical about. Especially the way most marijuana smokers smoke--taking huge inhalations and holding them in for prolonged periods.
Nevertheless, smoking pot is only one way to ingest THC. It can also be eaten. I am fairly confident that there is nothing but positive health benefits that can be attributed to a diet "high" in fiber from THC. The only thing stopping the making of foods available containing this magnificent herb is modern law and the financial benefits to extraordinarily wealthy drug lords--like our recent Presidents--who stand so much to gain from keeping it illegal.
On a side note, all drugs should be legal and available to all adults. Any prohibition is unwise at best, contributes to far greater problems, and establishes a nasty precedent of government control over personal sovereignty and bodily functions.
For your information, Matt, nothing is really "free". But let me remind you that in many countries more progressive and more enlightened than this one, education is part of tax-supported infrastructure, like healthcare and the post office. Therefore it is available to everyone interest-free, regardless of ability to pay. That you and others are against this sort of upward-mobility-promoting policy and simple fairness is something that disturbs me quite a lot.
Gee, it sure is heartwarming and uplifting to learn how much better students in privileged private schools are doing than their less-privileged counterparts. That's swell. Here in America it all boils down to this: Who's your daddy? Is he a politician, a doctor, a janitor or Walmart "associate"?
You ask "Why must the public school students walk past my half-empty classroom on their way to their overcrowded and under-performing school?" And it all boils down to this: "Who's your daddy?" Because a $7000-per-year tuition breaks down to $583 a month. Many families can't afford that, so here's why you see all these students walking past your half-empty classroom on their way to the overcrowded ones. Here in America ya get only what'cha can pay for 'cuz it's the American way! Too bad the kiddies don't get to pick their daddies before they're born, eh Matt? And this is how our caste system is maintained, generation after generation. - Aliceinwonderland
I believe there should be low-interest or zero-interest State-run loans. But not "free" taxpayer-funded higher education, especially not from the fereral level. No one who wants a higher education, AND is capable of completing one, should be priced out of it. But that's not the same as giving it to them for free.
For what it's worth, I am a teacher at a private school. So yes, my students are a bit more privledged than the public school counterparts down the street. I have only 15 students in one class, and 18 in another, so collectively I am teaching fewer kids every day than the public school teachers down the street teach in a single period. This year, the students from my school averaged 20-points higher on the high school entrance exam than their public school counterparts.
I could easily teach twice as many students as I currently do. All of the teachers here could. If you want to start talking about free, quality, meaningful education, this is the place to start. Why must the public school students walk past my half-empty classroom on their way to their overcrowded and under-performing school? The tuition here is about $7,000 per year. Personally, I think the majority of students in Chicago would benefit from a better, free grammar-school education more than they would a college education.
Check this article about Clive Bundy out http://www.thedemocratictruth.com/civil-liberties/conservatives-begin-backing-away-after-cliven-bundys-remarks-disparaging-the-negro/
I would like to mention that business schools shoud have no tuition support. Actually, we should charge a 50% surtax on their tuition. Those are the institutions of teaching self-centeredness. In the case of the University of Chicago Business School that surtax should be 100%.
I find it a little ironic that Obama would cheer on an activist working so tirelessly to counter policies (like the TPP for example) that Obama supports. - AIW
Okay Matt, so you think people should be priced out of higher education and not allowed to compete on a more level playing field because they speak a different language, shop at different places, have different values, etc. etc.?! Beam me up… - AIW
Palindromedary ~ I really like your new Avatar. Cool. Kinda reminds me of Stephen Colbert. Very nice touch! Kudos! Bravo!
I just hope it is an eagle and not the damn owl from Bohemian grove.
"Is this a cultural problem, or are people naturally inclined to be self-centered and mean?"
From what I can tell, it is a cultural phenomenon (not necessarily a problem) in the United States, and I think it stems from the cultural melting pot ideal of the country. This will sound cold-hearted, but I am just being honest: I feel NO connection with the many other Americans. Hearing that people in Arizona have this problem, or people in New York have that problem, has the same affect on me as hearing about problems in other countries. Sure, I feel bad for them. I donate to relief efforts. But I don't look on them like they are my kin.
There are people in my own city (Chicago) that I would not consider as sharing the same culture as me. We have no shared background, barely speak the same language, shop at different places, have different values, and stay out of each other's neighborhoods. The natural result of that, I believe, is self-centeredness.
Chuck- Beautiful! A slam-dunk bull's eye if I ever saw one. And thanks, PD, for helping to counter David in Vegas's faux-style BS. - AIW
chicagomatt -- If they don't remember anything before the '80s, does that mean they do not know about the US constitution? Does that mean they do not know about the ideals of the founding of our country? Do they not know that the first 3 words of the constitution are "We the People"?
chicagomatt -- the poor pay no income taxes.
* http://911review.com/precedent/decade/incubators.html
Well said, Aliceinwonderland!!! No one but the incredibly reality-challenged gets taken in by such right wing non-sense.
David in Vegas, the reason we keep blaming Baby Bush (and Reagan & Clinton) for our current malaise is because we continue suffering the consequences of their their destructive policies. And since Republicans go out of their way to block everything that might benefit the vast majority of us, the high cost of education has everything to do with the "Party of No". Just who do you think you're fooling? And since our government, as a whole, has been taken over by corporate interests, our education system is screwed. The Republicans, in particular, are determined to destroy public education, just as they are determined to destroy and privatize everything public. Prior to the '80s, education was largely subsidized by the government, which made it more affordable for everyone. Back in those days, college students weren't graduating under a mountain of debt. From the moment Ray-gun took office, things have gone steadily downhill for most of us. When we eventually fix the damage inflicted us by Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama, then- and only then- will it be time to "move on".
The problem is corporate intrusion, not government intrusion. Student loans are a classic example, taken over by these too-big-to-fail, for-profit, casino-style banksters who are making a huge profit at our expense. Taken over by the Feds?! I wish.
These "easy-to-get" student loans are nothing but a debt trap.
While the Pentagon and military industrial complex continue sucking up more than half our tax dollars, people like Dave in Vegas keep bitching about the cost of life-supporting infrastructure and government programs designed to actually benefit people and society.
Only in America do we get shoved into bottomless debt traps over things like healthcare and education! What a stupid country this is. Greed trumps need. It's the American way! But in Dave's realm of reality, students are to blame for not being "talented" or "dedicated" enough.
You conservative ideologues are so full of it. You'll not get away with it on this forum. - Aliceinwonderland
Yes, the source of the problem is much deeper...the covert government, consisting of very wealthy and powerful people, that controls the overt government. The visible government is just the facade to keep us all distracted.
⚑☠Skull And Bones☠⚑
The owls are not what they seem! Nor are the flying pigs....or sows. oink! oink! ;-} hint: "owls"...a reference to the giant stone owl called Moloch who watches over the burning of a dummy in the Skull and Bones ritual in Bohemian Grove of Sonoma County California.
The job market is stagnant because the captains of industry have relocated our jobs overseas..while sinking the ship..and will, no doubt, leave the sinking ship before it totally sinks leaving all the women and children and everyone else to sink and die. And that started long before Obama... and not with Clinton either....although they haven't been much better..after all, they are part of the cabal.
And the student loan program started way before Obama as well. And it seems to me that the real estate scams did too. You know, the slicing and dicing of mortgages into tranches, crooked ratings agencies, and various other F.I.R.E (Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate) scams that created bubbles that popped leaving the unsuspecting majority holding expensive homes they could no longer pay for..then foreclosures. Those damn capitalist pigs made a killing while the rest of us were left with nothing but debts.
I believe that both Democrats and Republicans are bought off, or cowed in other ways (JFK, MLK ring any bells?), by the people with most of the wealth in this country... the ones running Wall Street and the banks and major corporations. (...and the wealthy from other countries with their pickpocket hands in our country).
One of the reasons why we don't have much of a manufacturing base in the US anymore, aside from the relocation of our jobs overseas and exploiting cheap labor in countries with fewer costly safety and pollution laws, is the move to the more lucrative F.I.R.E. economy for more immediate profit taking without the huge overhead of investing in equipment and R&D (long term investments). The manufacturers were more willing to play the Real Estate bubble inflation game..and bought lots of commercial property and then, with overly inflated values, selling out to retirement fund managers and other sucker countries, before the bubble burst. The hedge fund managers and ratings agencies take their cuts at opportune times before the bubbles pop. And then the insurance companies and banks gets bailed out with tax payer's dollars. And the ratings agencies said their Hail Marys--forgive me father for I have sinned--and went right back to doing business as usual..perhaps under another name...perhaps not. In addition to disappearing wages and benefits, our corporations had a way to get back those retirement savings of all their workers. What a way to get all those people to work for little or nothing all their lives..because that's what it amount to...it's called slavery!
Yes, our government is crooked and inefficient from the little man's point of view but they are doing just what their wealthy puppet masters want them to do...both Republican and Democrat. What it comes down to is the blame-game to keep 99% of us confused and pumped full of some hope flim-flam idea that we can change things at the ballot box while both Republican and Democrat politicians, with their useful-idiot toadies, keep pointing fingers at one another..and continue to fight for their own piece of the cake. The false hope keeps people from taking more immediate actions which the ruling elite wouldn't like at all.
Both Republicans and Democrats have their own finger-pointing ploys. The Republicans try to scare voters their way by claiming that "the government" (and, of course they mean the Democratic government) is somehow against the less fortunate...and is the root of all evil. They are also very good at divide and conquer, election cheating, and majority ownership of this country's sources of propaganda...the media.
The Democrats try to scare voters their way by claiming that the Republicans are so scary that they had better vote for Democrats. But then, when they get into office, they continue to do the ruling elites bidding by giving excuses that the bad old Republican bullies prevented them from doing their duty for their constituents. The Democrats walk tightropes trying to appear they are on their constituents side but know full well that they were bought and paid for by the ruling elite. I believe that they both play us all for fools and pick our bones in the process.
The über wealthy rules this country, not the Democrats or Republicans who are just dishonorable, disgusting opportunist bums (many were once liars..I mean lawyers..now, they are even bigger liars). They are really no better than carnival hustlers and/or thugs in the alley ready to rob you in the dark.
It is difficult to know what is the best way to save for one's retirement, since all the markets seem stacked against ordinary people. As a general rulle I would say get out of the stockmarket several years before retirement, but I am no expert - it crashed too early for me to do that. The shares I had most of, because I had worked for the company and taken advantage of stock buying schemes, lost 90% and never recovered - in fact they were down 50% of the remaining 10% last time I looked. It is crazy that our money is invested in the stock market. It is not designed for it, unless it is to take our money from us.
Many people do not realise that unless you invest in an IPO, the money you put in the stock market does not go to the companies you are 'investing in'. The person you buy the shares from may take the money and move it into a tax haven; though they could be a retiree who spends it locally.
Speculative computerised buying and selling which rises the price may make a profit for the rich people who can do it, but just puts up the prices for everyone else - and if they are speculating in something people need, llike food, the end results can be starvation, riots, civil war.
It is far beyond time that we came up with a better system, one which focuses on investment into actual companies and reasonably safe returns for ordinary folk. If the rich want to gamble, let them do it at a casino, with no connection to any necessities.