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Dave, I just finished reading your comments. What Thom has advocated is a guaranteed income for all of us whether we work or not. That proposal is light years beyond Lyndon Johnson's so-called "Great Society". And frankly, I question whether the "GS" can be characterized as a "liberal" solution. Thom describes it as "piecemeal", which I believe is much more accurate.
In case you haven't noticed, there aren't enough jobs out there for those seeking "gainful employment". And many of those jobs (what few there are) can hardly be described as "gainful". Thanks to these toxic so-called "trade agreements" and outsourcing, employment here in America is becoming obsolete as a viable means of sustenance. Despite that grim reality, you ask why the left "champions" two years of unemployment benefits without forcing those on the program to seek "gainful" employment. (HELLO…) Are you suggesting that unemployment benefits encourage laziness? Gimmie a break.
You seem to think liberals & progressives are somehow missing out on the "complexity" of this issue of poverty and our American version of "untouchables". This system happens to be rigged against 99% of us. Nothing "complicated" about that! Unless of course, you're one of those people trying to confound us with bullshit. Sorry if we're not "intelligent" enough to grasp your version of reality. - Aliceinwonderland
The dipshit thinks slavery was a good way to keep black families together. What an eneducated fool and a goddam ass.
Why is it that some of you, who have no understanding of Republican ideals, think you know how anyone thinks other than yourself?
Truly, if you were to boil it down to one single belief, it would be that we believe you are more powerful and more capable that anyone ever allowed you to believe. You degrade yourself and all others when you feign such incompetence and weakness that you must be cared for like a child.
We know that people experience times and circumstance of trouble and we are ready to help any and all, friend or foe in times of emergency - our history is proof of this. We believe that such help is beneficial both to the giver of aid and the reciever only if/when the aid is given freely in a self-determined manner. We believe that such help given at the point of a gun, through the use of governmental force, is an abberant and makes a man incrementally a slave.
We belive that a rational and competent man should and will care for himself, his family, his neighborhood, town, State and Nation because it is the right thing to do. The incompetent cannot see beyond their own problems.
We believe the government should work for the benefit of the people not the reverse.
We believe you can be happy, and government cannot make it so.
Michael, every time I see that avatar of yours with Clinton & Bush laughing together, I want to throw up. But I suppose that was the intended effect when you selected it... Am I wrong?
"Leighmf", your noxious-weed analogy really resondates with me.
Marc, I participated in Bernie's poll and the results blow my mind. They even exceeded my expectations... WOW.
Willie W, I agree with your comments about the indirectly negative impact poverty has on health. But there are many other factors to this issue that can be described as directly lethal, like poor diet and stress for example. Despite the Affordable Care Act, healthcare denial remains a killer for those unlucky enough to inhabit the so-called "red states", thanks to those Republican governors' passive-aggressive style of genocide. All these factors have a directly negative impact on longevity. If I gave it more thought, I could probably lengthen that list, but I think I've made my point... - AIW
Willie you nailed it. I am here in Scottsdale AZ and these seniors love there life. They come down here to get out of the cold and they eat well they get lots of exercise and all they talk about is there health. When I see seniors at home they are bitter and mad at there life because they are stuck in this horrible winter they don't eat as well and it's too cold to go out side.
Thom, as usual you mis-evaluate the data and assign the wrong target as source of the problem. Education is the 'great equalizer' when it comes to income potential, but since the 1960's Education Know-it-Alls have mis understood the connection between poverty and education. Poverty does not mean the student cannot learn, but it does mean that he is less able to benefit from the current system of education championed by the left. He requires more attention in training until he can operate more effectively on his own, and the system has no understanding of this or that it is their responsibility. The truth is that our system of education delivery prevents all but the exceptional child of poor parents from any form of achievement. Better educated and economically situated families have both the inclination and resources to teach their children when the 'system' fails to produce results.Children of poor and generationally poorly educated parents are stuck because the parent(s) is unable to help in any significant way as the parent had no success when they were being schooled.
You may think this absurd, but consider the fact that the #1 solution for education sucess given by the education profession is 'Parental Involvement'. Which, for those who understand how education really works, means that parents need to help educate their children. (That alone screams system incompetence.)
Have you never wondered why the education system itself is not even in the top 10 list of factors of student success? (Actually no aspect of the education system, part or as a whole, including teachers, is a significant factor in student success.)
Poverty has negative effects, but the 'Great Society' now turning 50yrs old this year, which has been the liberal answer to solving poverty, has been a total failure. There are no success stories from these programs, whereas successes from 'Reaganomics' and capitalism are legion. I'm talking the 'rags to riches' not the 'rich to super-rich' stories (the latter being the hallmark of leftist policies). The Great Society initiative is arguably the dominant reason why many have remained in poverty, as that segment of society has been trained, by the design and operation of those programs, to stay poor and unsuccessful so as to get the government goodies in return for no effort. (Before you object, ask yourself why the left champions 2 years of unemployment benefits and do not object to the President unilaterally waiving the law requiring those on the program to work or try to get gainful employment?)
The liberal/progressive brand of primitive thinking looks only at one factor in any equation and cannot seem to grasp the fact that most decisions and certainly the multi faceted problem of poverty is calculus-style in complexity, not A=A.
If you cannot look at these factors without the Progressive blinders on, then you are not as intelligent as I believe you to be. And I honestly believe you are very intelligent, so I hope you will take the time to re-evaluate your position or at least the data.
ML, Dave
Actually, the final point should be attributed to Democrats. It was Bill Clintoin who wiped out welfare aid (1996). He also gave us NAFTA, resulting in significant job loss in the US. With very rare exception (such as Mr. Hartmann), this issue has been virtually ignored by lib media ever since. With the latest budget, Democrats voted with Republicans to cut food stamps to the elderly, disabled and working poor. Again. Not everyone can work, due to health or circumstances, and there aren't jobs available to all who need one immediately. It is Democrats who remain indifferent. At most, we hear the routine calls for job creation (as we've been hearing for over 30 years...). You can't buy a day-old donut with promises of eventual jobs. You can't get a job once you no longer have a home address, phone, bus fare. When was the last time you heard a Dem suggest restoring basic poverty relief?
Chuckle as far as I know every province is different. in Alberta where I live once you get a job you have to report it to your social worker and you are cut off. But, we have a lot of government housing that even though you are employed if your income level is low you can have your rent subsidized and I am sorry I don't remember what the number is. In Edmonton AB. I heard they are selling homes at subsadised price for those who qualify as well. Keep in mind we all receive the same level of health care no matter how much we make. If you are on welfare your glasses, teeth, meds etc are all covered but you loose those when you get a job But most employeers give those extra benefits. So unless it is a good job they are kinda forced to stay on welfare. Let me be clear Though no one is left on the street Or without healthcare. Unless of course it's by choice. Hope this helps.
Our native Indians oh sorry. Aboriginals now I guess. Are in a whole different plan though. Basically everything is free. They don't have to work a day in there lives. Free homes, school, all healthcare, they don't even pay taxes if they work on the Rez. It is a mess I feel sorry for them it is a shitty life.
Let me know if I answered your question.
"ckrob", I tip my hat to you for such an enlightened and inspiring post. - AIW
Mark: Reference to Pope Urban VIII is based on Galileo having been forced to appear before and placed under arrest by the inquisition in Rome. I consider Galileo to be the first modern scientist. He reaffirmed the Copernican concept off the universe established almost 100 years before him........ No excuse by the 1630's for Pope Urban's ignorance!
Palin says "One can anticipate how someone might respond... which doesn't make it 'psychic'" and "So-called 'psychics' are just another part of the 'paranormal' flim-flam..." Geez Palin, have you no sense of humor?! I was only kidding!
If an anti-religious, athiestic person like me can push your buttons, PD, you've REALLY got a problem. C'mon now, ole buddy, it''s not worth having a heart attack over!
I refuse to dismiss reincarnation because, unlike you, I don't claim to know the answers to these age-old questions. That doesn't make me a believer. At any rate, this reminds me of one of my favorite bumper sticker quotes: "A mind is like an umbrella, it works best when open." - Aliceinwonderland
P.S. Thanks, Chuck. I answered Palin before I'd finished reading all the posts.
It's in black and white. So was Dr. Strangelove.
That's a big reason the Doctor was eliminated. I'm afraid the oiligarchs have a cure for poverty in mind. It'll probably explode, noiselessly, over Nebraska. As a matter of fact, we're going to watch "Nebraska" tonight. It stars Bruce Dern of "Silent Running" fame. Remember, in that movie he saved the last vestige of a Forest by detonating a nuclear device. Dern's grandfather was former Utah governor and Secretary of War. His godfather was Adlai Stevenson. Eleanor Roosevelt babysat him when he had a concussion at age 8 when FDR was at the Yalta Conference. His great uncle was Archibald McLeish, the poet.
They wouldn't get just anybody to play in a movie like this. He thinks he just won a fortune & takes off with his son to collect his winnings. I think it's a kind of tribute to Nebraska.
It's over Nebraska that Flight MH370 will most likely reappear, thanks to certain intelligence services, and deliver the nuke it picked up in Pakistan (you don't think Boeing & Rolls Royce have GPS aboard that "lost" plane?). The nuke will soar up through the atmosphere and detonate, sending an Electromotive Pulse (EMP) across the US, southern Canada and northern Mexico.
They just can't be prosecuted for 9/11 and it'll take care of that pesky Constitution.
Take the Senator Bernie Sanders poll: Do you support the latest Koch brothers Libertarian agenda. Pole here and see the results. They are most exposing...
Senator Bernie Sanders Poll of the Koch brothers Libertarian platform.
I think the desire to live a healthy life style is directly proportional to the degree of quality that lifestyle holds for you. If your future is bright, you want to prolong it. If you're dodging debt collectors, your health is probably the last thing on your mind. So, indirectly, poverty is hazardous to your health.
Something I don't understand is why Reaganomics is used as Milestone 1 on the ludicrous road on which we as Americans find ourselves. Financial misconduct amongst government officials, state officials, and high-ranking military has been going on for a long time. Our Treasury has been a free-for-all since 1913, The Federal Reserve Act.
I always regarded Reagan not as a policy-maker, but just another celebrity shill for the International Harvester, Norfolk Southern, Pepsico-General Dynamics, Bush, Harriman, Rockefeller et al. establishment which have been looting the United States under one name or another since The Civil War- the same establishment which by hook or crook got Nixon, then Reagan in office.
Our trouble is a big noxious weed- if it is not dug out roots and all, for once and for all, each generation is doomed to repeat the struggle to keep their shirts, lives, and limbs, as did their forefathers.
;-)
Beauty and synchronicity are just happenstance. No meaning there.
DnBr -- The main concern I have is that people in 2008 kept pushing the agenda of taxing wealth. I think they should have applied most of their efforts to eliminate the bush tax cuts. The result was that most of the bush tax cuts became permanent. The few taxes on the rich that we won was worth 600 billion (10 yrs) vs the 6000 billion that the elimination of the bush tax cuts would have provided
Another facet of the tax structure of FDR was that Look magazine in the 60's said America would never have any billionaires. This was accomplished without any wealth tax.
THE REPUBLICAN CREED
FACE WALL STREET AND SAY THIS PRAYER AT THE OPENING AND CLOSING OF THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE.
REPUBLICANS believe the government should help the rich live long and prosper.
REPUBLICANS believe the government should let the rich exploit the working classes until they die from hard work and exhaustion.
REPUBLICANS believe the government should just let the poor die off from disease and starvation because they never will amount to anything anyway and are just a drain on the rich.
humanitys team....you got it....My comment was directly aimed at those who would shield the Carbon Barons by blaming climate change on "God"!......in other words refusing all responsibility to reverse the "game over"...which looms near.
chuckle 8 is correct...The 1 % uses God, guns, and gays, to mislead massive numbers of single issue voters into voting for more misery and poverty for the vast majority.
chuckle8: that's probably it! ;-}
Maybe not, but no one can deny that these events were deeply cathartic. The fact that the old rat-bastards were eventually replaced by a new crop of rat-bastards is simply an argument for cyclical nature of history.
chuckle8 - I wasn't thinking of a world wide wealth tax involving everyone on the planet, but rather a wealth tax here in the USA that took into account people's overseas holdings as well as their domestic ones. And yes it is not an easy get, but neither was universal health care: TR, FDR, LBJ, and Bill Clinton all failed to get some kind of universal health coverage, but eventually Obama did get it done. The ACA is still far from perfect, but at least everyone is at long last covered in the places where the law is not being sandbagged by state officials. So the fact that FDR and LBJ couldn't get a wealth tax dosn't tell me it is impossible for our democracy to do, it just tells me that we need to keep pushing until the day comes when we can get it done.