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chuckle8 ~ I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said. In fact, I whole heartedly agree. The GDP is the most important national investment public or private that is made. I'm just suggesting better ways to spend our non productive money to provide vital services for everyone.
Like you said...
I'm right there with you buddy! Well said!
By the way, don't you think we need sound import tariffs to stimulate the GDP too? After all, we are going to have to export something other than militarized Democracy and posters of Marilyn Monroe eventually.
chuckle8- I could not find a link to the article, so I'll have to paste it here:
The illustration on the cover of German business daily Handelsblatt on Wednesday morning fairly well encapsulates the way the US federal government shutdown is being perceived across the Atlantic. The Statue of Liberty stands bound in chains, her torch hand hanging listlessly by her side. Across it reads the headline: "The Blocked World Power."
ANZEIGEMany Germans have found it hard to understand American lawmakers' inability to resolve their budget disagreements in time to prevent a shutdown of all nonessential government services, which went into effect at midnight on Monday night. "What Washington currently offers up is a spectacle, but one in which the spectators feel more like crying," writes the conservative dailyFrankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.
"Because Republicans and Democrats, House and Senate, Congress and president could not agree on a stop-gap budget, hundreds of thousands of federal employees were sent on involuntary leave and many agencies were forced to shut down," continues the editorial. "The main actors in this dispute, which brings together many factors, both ideological and political, took a huge risk and, unhindered, proceeded to validate everyone who ever accused the political establishment in Washington of being rotten to the core -- by driving the world power into a budgetary state of emergency. The public is left wondering how things could have been allowed to get to this point and why there is so much poison in the system."
Elsewhere, German commentators asked whether a similar government shutdown could happen in Berlin, where Chancellor Angela Merkel is currently embroiled in drawn-out talks over Germany's federal budget between her conservatives and their probable coalition partner, the center-left Social Democrats. "The American situation is not at all comparable with the Germans," Professor Henrik Enderlein, a Berlin-based expert on political economy, assured news agency DPA on Wednesday. The article went on to characterize the shutdown as a "specifically American problem," a sentiment echoed by other media outlets.
Yet it was clear to many that the fallout would be far-reaching. "The whole world pays for America's shutdown," reads a headline in the right-leaning daily Die Welt above an article about the consequences on the German economy. In the article, several prominent German economists registered disapproval. "If the Americans shoot themselves in the foot right now, it is highly dangerous for the entire global economy, and of course for the German export economy," warned Anton Böner, president of the Federal Association for German Wholesalers and Foreign Trade.
The 'Kamikaze Party'
The overwhelming consensus among the German press is that the Republicans are the most to blame for the gridlock. In a Tuesday commentary, SPIEGEL ONLINE's Gregor Peter Schmitz dubbed them the "kamikaze party." He attributed the gridlock to America's mercenary political culture -- where directly elected lawmakers run for re-election every two years and campaigns are privately financed -- as well as to the lack of party infrastructure compared to Germany's parliamentary model with its publicly funded campaigns.
"It's circumstances like these," writes Schmitz, "that explain why a brigade of Republicans conduct themselves like a bunch of Berlusconis -- as enemies of the state from within who want to cripple the country because that's the desire of their conservative voters at home."
When it came to the Tea Party wing of the Republican Party, the German press was not pulling any punches. "There are fundamentalists within the world's largest democracy: The hardline wing of the Republican Party are once more crippling the United States," writes Nuremberg's Nachrichten. The Tea Party movement, it concludes, "does not engage in democracy, but in dogmatism."
"Here are fundamentalists at work who hold up their country to ridicule to advance their pure doctrine," wrote a commentator in Collogne'sStadt-Anzeiger. "What a tragedy!"
'Self-Destruction' of a Democracy
Munich's national Süddeutsche Zeitung offers a slightly more depressing take, pointing blame at all sides. "What has already been apparent in America for a few years now is the self-destruction of one of the world's oldest democracies. And the great tragedy here is that this work of destruction isn't being wrought by enemies of democracy, greedy lobbyists or sinister major party donors. America's democracy is bring broken by the very people who are supposed to be carry and preserve it: the voters, the parties and the politicians."
The argument? The Republicans who have brought Washington to stillstand are repeatedly and democratically elected by voters and given a mandate to block. The parties themselves are fomenting an increasingly radicalized culture that deepens political, societal and geographic divisions in the country, argues the newspaper. And finally, there are few politicians in America who are willing or capable of thinking beyond their own electoral constituencies.
"At the moment, Washington is fighting over the budget and nobody knows if the county will still be solvent in three weeks," the paper concludes. "What is clear, though, is that America is already politically bankrupt."
-- Charly Wilder
I find it most intriguing to see how other countries view this American fascist soap opera. - Alice I.W.
Dan we have had this argument before. I agree with most everything you say, but you do not understand what I am trying to say.
I am saying we need to spend more on our infrastructure, like 100 MB internet for all, free eduction for all, roads, bridges, etc. Since these investments will increase our debt, I say let the debt clock run wild. What these investments will do, as they have throughout the history of our country, will build an economic machine that will eat our debt even if we are building tanks that go immediately to the scrap heap. It would be far better if we could cut back on the wasteful spending but even with the wasteful spending, I think we could be the best economy in the world.
For me to believe you understand what I am trying to convey, you need to mention how important the GDP is in these discussions.
As a side note social security has not contributed to the debt except to be a source for the government to buy bonds.
Alice in not such a wonderland -- Does "Der Spiegel" point that the Koch bros etc have purchased our congress?
Let us not forget we are operating under the budget created by the sequester. Remember the sequester, a deal so bad no one would accept it.
A tax revenue loss clock would matter! By slashing taxes that used to be revenue from the billionaires who specialize in sucking away wealth from the workers, also known as the "wealth creators...." the austerity political machine has gained a huge advantage. It's all about the rich not paying their,"our," fair share back. The Kochbaggers are oblivious to the fact that the taxed enough already slogan wasn't in reality meant to apply to them, it was only to stir them up......it's all about more money and power for the elite.
The importance of job training and the percentage of job seeker rapidly increase in the current time period. Millions and millions of job seekers are getting high level of opportunities through different job training programs. Job training program includes coaching classes; resume guidance and many more; but due to lack of proper wealth facilities students are unable to get enough opportunities to afford these training classes. Therefore they need the support of funds as mentioned in the above article; I must sure that through the help of job funding we can get more job pool opportunities and reduce the image of employment. Now we are able to deal with the question that how to pass a job interview.
BOBBLER (original post):
If only that debit ceiling warning would have been heeded when bush and reagan ran up the debt, there would be no problem today. But, since reagan, republicans have been running up debt on purpose, per the two santa claus (Grover norquist) scheme., with the intent to screw democrats anytime democrats win elections.
Like Clinton, Obama has been bringing the debt back down. And what money there is, health care is an extreme priority. Otherwise, with conservatives destroying Medicare, SS, healthcare, and welfare, America will become like the midel of Mexico (with people living in cardboard boxes, no health care, no jno hoe hope)..
The solution of coarse, Is to bring back workers unions that made America strong. It's obvious they well-paid worker is the root of a strong economy. The one percent cannot drive the economy buying an occasional pool and an occasional mansion.
I believe we should keep our eye on the ball; excessive profits for the 1% take money out of our economy because it sits in a huge growing bank account that is removed from our economy. Whereas workers on the other hand would spend ths money and therefore fuel the economy. It is the worst of all possible worlds to funnel the lions share of money pie to the wealthiest 1%, Because not only does it destroy our economy, it also gives a few individuals the power to undermine our entire democracy (Because they have so much money they can control politicians like puppets).
KEND (reply to above):
Sorry Bobbler, Obama isn't bring the debt shown. He is just reducing the amount he spends a little. You are still going into debt over a trillnllion dollars a year. Americans owe over $55,000 per person.
Wasn't it those high union wages what send the work to China.
Nobody is trying to destroy anything they are just trying to find out how they are going to pay for it.
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BOBBLER (new comments):
Apparently republicans are still following Grover norqusts unethical plan, to spend like drunken sailors to run up America's debt, the scream fiscal responsibility next time a democrat gets into office. -If you look on a graph it becomes obvious;
-1- national debt sky rocketed during the Reagan years,
-2- leveed off during the Clinton years,
-3- then skyrocketed again during the bush-2 years..
-4-
Obama has been the most fiscally responsible president since Clinton (who balanced the budget after Reagan screwed it up), so he doesn't need pushing here. And keeping in mind Obama inherited an almost unimaginable debt problem (same as clinton), that the so calked fiscally responsible republicans left America with.
Here is a graph of national debt. https://www.google.com/#q=national+debt+graph&biv=i%7C19%3Bd%7CFBNYEng-rvqbxM%3A
My question for Kend, do you also push fiscal responsibility onto republicans, for all those years they were running up the debt? Or do you only complain when a democrat gets into office? From looking at the facts, Obama has been more responsible with our national debt than any republican from Reagan forward. And raising the debt ceiling is a normal thing to do, when a president is left with a broken economy.
UNION WAGES: This one is clear, a well paid worker is the root of a strong economy. What sent jobs over seas was conservatives economics (free trade, nafta, crafta, etc) that only benefited the 1-percent richest people, and put Americans out of work by the millions (over time).. Because this forces the American middle class to compete with third world labor to the tune of $5 a day wages.. And we see the result of the American middle class forced to compete with third world countries (the middle class is almost gone, Americans cannot afford to retire, and America is starting to resemble a third world country).
If there's one thing Obama has done right, it's refusing to cave to the ransom terrorist tactics of the Tea Party. Give in to those thugs and you set a dangerous precedent that could be mighty hard to shake off. Our democracy is in bad enough shape already, it seems to me.
Der Spiegel's still getting my two cents. Frankly, I'm a little embarrassed by the international spectacle these congressional dramas create. We must be a laughing stock to the rest of the world by now. The more lucid and on-target Der Spiegel's articles about our lame-ass Congress and related topics, the more defensive Americans' blog posts generally are in response. These dumb yankees remind me of battered wives who still defend & rationalize their husbands' abusive, bullying behavior. They overlook so many important factors and their comments are so shortsighted, I can't resist the impulse to jump in, filling in the missing pieces from the puzzle. Yet I often wonder if I'm a glutton for punishment, engaging in those discussions. Guess I've become a compulsive-obsessive blogger! - Aliceinwonderland
Ignorance is indeed dangerous! Those on the right wing want nothing more than to ensure their constituents' continued total lack of knowledge when it comes to very important issues that can directly impact their lives. As it has been asked over and over, "Why do so many people vote against their own best interests?" It is something I shall never understand, yet obviously these tea-party followers eat up any and all misinformation, scare tactics, and lies spoon-fed them by politicians and certain so-called news outlets who care only about lining their pockets! When will these folks wake-up? Or do they prefer just listening to demagogues who wink at the camera?
Boehner wasted billions just to gain favor of a bunch of gullible low information racist Obama haters. Ignorance is NOT Bliss
Its dangerous . As a former GOP voter I view Bagger GOP congress with utter contempt. !
chuckle8 ~ If this is the what you are talking about:
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
You are certainly right. This thing lists the National Debt at about $17 Trillion. Then it lists the national defense spending at $607 Billion. What it is referring to with the $607 Billion figure is the annual budget of military operations. That is also a very conservative estimate of that annual cost. I've heard that it could go as high as $1.2 Trillion. It fails to list the overall budget during the time period where the $17 Trillion was incurred. In fact, it never mentions the estimated $4.7 Trillion cost of the oil wars in the last decade. Furthermore, at the bottom it lists our Social Security liability at almost the same $17 Trillion of the entire debt. The actual annual Social Security liability is around $1 Trillion; or, about the same liability as routine military operations domestically, and abroad. Mixing debt incurred over time with annual expenditures is mixing apples and oranges and is meaningless and misleading. If you were to go by this clock you might think that our military is cheap and our wars were free.
This website gives a simple pie chart for annual federal expenditures that is much more informative.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1258
As you can see, the majority of the budget goes for Social Security, Medicare, and Social Safety Net programs--about 55% that is; and, not 98% as is insinuated with that so called "Debt Clock." What also is not stated is that the Medicare/Medicaid budget is as big as it is because the only members of Medicare/Medicaid are in the highest health risk group. If Medicare was combined with Medicaid and was expanded to cover everyone healthy people would be taxed as well to pay for it; and, that slice of the budget pie would shrink considerably. Medicare and Medicaid are wastes only because of their structure. The structure needs to be changed and then any cuts will be unnecessary; infact, benefits could be expanded, for instance, to include mental, vision, and dental health.
The Republican game is, and always has been, to make the system look broke and use that as a justification to really break it. The Republicans hate our Democracy and functional government and want nothing more than to undermine and destroy it. They are the enemies from within, doing the bidding of their Corporate masters; and, we must learn to identify their tricks so we don't fall prey to them. This "Debt Clock" was obviously designed to mislead and frighten the ignorant public. Their ultimate goal is a reverse Robin Hood strategy. They want to rob from the elderly and the sick and use that money to fund our war machine. We must not let that happen. They want We the People to pay for their dirty work. The evidence for that suspicion is crystal clear in how this "Debt Clock" is laid out. Take a good look at it. Where on it does it break down and state our real war budget? It is conveniently hidden, isn't it? I wonder why?
The debt clock is just another bogus Republican trick. It should be called the "Coco Debt Alarm Clock."
http://cryptome.org/2013/10/snowden-nyt-13-1017.htm
The Four Freedom Awards by the Roosevelt Institute
Video: http://rooseveltinstitute.org/2013-four-freedoms-awards
NSA chief General Keith Alexander and Deputy Director John “Chris” Inglis are headed out the door within a few months. Thank you Mr. Snowden...you've done the country a great service! Now who will be the next fascist flunkies to take their places? Maybe Vice Admiral Michael Rogers, currently commander of the U.S. Navy’s 10th Fleet and U.S. Fleet Cyber Command? Oh, and I understand that the Utah NSA fascility has been having lots of problems...awww...too bad! ;-} Lightning arcs and meltdowns among at least 10 incidents so far.
http://www.tripwire.com/state-of-security/top-security-stories/nsa-chief...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/10/17/nsas-utah-data-center...
As I mentioned early the debt clock show an irrelevant number; that is, it means nothing but some number the right wing can fool the American public with.
I think Boner and Kruz each owe the taxpayers $12 billion. My unrep Tom Reed along with 143 of his co-workers voted to collapse the global economy. They all deserve national exposure by name, state, and district they represent. In addition, how about the 30 or so public employees who attended the secret tortilla joint meeting with Kruz?......voters need to know!
Walmartalism: A Corp. economic system in which almost all profits go to owners and shareholders. This is made possible by grossly underpaying workers to such an extent that they qualify for govt. Social Welfare Programs.
We still need a graphic display in the House showing the ever growing cost of Reagan/Bush unfunded tax cuts for the super rich. This would explain the numbers on Reed's debt clock display.
Republicans in the House of Representatives have learned nothing. Ted Cruz learned nothing. The Republicans will attempt to gum up the works again when the continuing resolution comes up again unles the adults in the United States Senate can force a full budget in the committee. It is possible for the Senate to take the lead in this if the committee takes its work seriously. If the Republicans cannot find a way to come to a deal in the committee, they may make themselves irrelevant in national politics. The strategy and tactics they used in this debacle were doomed from the start. Cruz Control was a disaster for the Party.
Ted Cruz will not be on the committee. I think he is pretty much history for the remainder of his time in the Senate. Republican members of the Senate will marginalize him for his rude and crude behavior. They do not need a leader like him. He has harmed the Party Brand and enhanced his personal status with a tiny minority that the Republicans don't want on their side anyway. I think very soon you may see the Tea Party disconnecting from the Republican Party.
If there were any progressive liberals in congress like Dennis Kucinich, or Mike Gravel, they have been pushed out thanks in part to Gerrymandering by Republicans.
I am not sure that anyone on this runaway train is capable of stopping it or even slowing it down. It appears we are headed for a wreck, and the analogy of a sinking Titanic is also apropos. I don't think a lot of window dressing is going to make the picture any better, nor rearranging the deck chairs.
I have always been a fighter, but my voice doesn't count as much as those with money and power who sway our "elected" officials.
I just don't think we should be too surprised when the various scenarios expressed by Alex Jones, Jesse Ventura, Charlie Sheen, Glenn Greenwald, Chris Hedges, Naomi Klein, Naomi Wolf, or Abby Martin on RT, and others who don't by what is coming out of DC or the mainstream media, comes to pass.
Eisenhower warned us about the Military-Industrial Complex wagging the dog, and Kennedy warned us about secret societies, only to be removed from office by a bullet. Those with money and power have tried (and in many instances succeeded) to control the governments of nations (including our own). From the secret creation of the Federal Reserve Board on Jekyll Island, and the creation of an Income Tax, they have continually violated the Constitution. The fact that corporations like Union Bank of NY, backed Hitler's rise to power via I.G. Farben, and was even investigated for trading with the enemy, indicates that the form of government these criminal enterprises want is fascist. They even tried to overthrow FDR in the 30's.
So when you read about what happened at Sand Creek, Washita River, or Wounded Knee, you realize that we are dealing with an authority that DOES NOT RESPECT HUMAN LIFE! How can a nation start off as a "Democratic Republic, when it has slaves? There seems to be some kind of war always going on within or our outside its borders. The Ludlow Massacre is an example of the war against labor unions seeking better working conditions and a sustainable wage. The Robber Barons like John D. Rockefeller, and J. P. Morgan had children working in coal mines of Appalachia who looked like old men by the time they were 12. Little girls were losing their fingers in looms of textile sweat shops in New England, and anything positive that came out of Congress had to be marched for and fought for like the woman's right to vote.
100 years after Reconstruction, MLK had to march and protest to get rid of the Jim Crow laws of the South, and fought for equal treatment under the Constitution. So how can we be surprised by the False Flag at the Gulf Of Tonkin, or the deaths of students at Kent State? Read the CIA's much redacted "Family Jewels," or "Operation Northwoods," or Gary Webb's "Dark Alliance," or Eileen Wellsome's "Plutonium Files" to get a picture of what these people are all about. From the invasion of Panama, to Iran/Contra, the CIA and the government that it belongs to has been anything but "democratic."
After Ruby Ridge, and Waco, many Americans became anti-government, and justifiably so. After Brzezinski’s "The Grand Chessboard," and PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses," is it any wonder that Americans doubt the official story of what happened on 911. The lies that led up to the invasion of Iraq, and the media hype before and during that illegal invasion, all reinforce the idea that the government is out of our control, and that the Military-Industrial-Espionage Complex is dictating to the government.
The NDAA, Patriot Acts, and the recent NSA worldwide spying, the persecution of whistleblowers, the militarization of our domestic police forces, summary executions by UAV, Extraordinary Rendition & torture, violation of Posse Commitatus and Habeas Corpus, preemptive strikes as a part of foreign policy (when economic sanctions fail to work), ALL INDICATE A FASCIST SYSTEM!
I agree with everything said above. Why doesn't anybody on the left listen to the facts given by Ravi Batra? Every time the deficit becomes smaller (0.6 trillion is smaller) the stock market crashes. Of course, I should really ask do any of the commentators on the left know the difference between the deficit and the debt. Also, any economic commentator who says the debt is $17 trillion is not an economist. The debt that matters is 100%, that is, 100% of GDP.
I don't think so, as to why, see post #1
So, we can sleep peacefully tonight. But, what about tomorrow night?!?
And yes the immoral @$@# have found another way to raise money.
Thom, et al:
First time on your blog, and responding to on-air request by Thom on behalf of a caller - not sure how this works.
However, here are links for the caller at ~1:40 PM (PDT) today, 10/17/13, who asked for sources the describe the Obama Administration's deficits by FY:
(1) From ~11/21/12 - so not up to date - this is my favorite demonstration of Obama's shrinking deficits. Rachel Maddow has a typically superb presentation with two bar charts in "Your helpful Thanksgiving charts about the deficit" at
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/21/15343715-your-helpful-thank...
and she says, in part: "...here are the charts that show the U.S. deficit is not growing but shrinking -- in fact, it's shrinking faster than at any time since the end of War II..." You'll see two bar charts. If you check the numbers in the first chart, you'll see that the deficit has gone down sequentially (monotone function) every year for the past three years.
-- I urge the caller to view this, and then search for a similar one that runs up through FY 2013. In general, of course, the caller should do a search, starting with the least specific search term, like "obama deficit", and narrow to a more specific search, if necessary. Also, several of the following sources are from ~12/12 - they were used in research for an article that I wrote at that time. At worst, they'll spur the caller to find something related, but newer. So, here are a few other sources that I've used:
(2) "The Deficit Is Plunging! And Nobody Cares!", by Derek Thompson, The Atlantic, 9/17/13, at
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/deficit-plunging-nobody-cares-142800771.html
(3) "Deep Impact: The Federal Deficit" from FactCheck.org at
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/09/obamas-deficit-dodge/
(4) "Who Really Caused The Deficit? (CHART)" at
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/obama-romney-deficit-debt-cha....
which says, in part, "Under Obama’s watch the national debt has risen from roughly $10 trillion to $15 trillion, a record high. But to what extent are his decisions while in office to blame? The answer: very little. The vast bulk of the debt is the result of policies enacted during the Bush administration coupled with automatic increases in federal spending and decreases in tax revenue triggered by the economic downturn." (5) "Ending the Deficit Blame Game" at http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-22/ending-the-deficit-blame-game.html. Bloomberg's conclusion: "...It's time for lawmakers to stop fighting about what caused the deficit and actually take steps to boost the economy in the short-run while preventing it from collapsing in the long-term." "...the only chance America has to begin returning to constitutionally limited government and start righting our national economy..." is for our Congress to can the nonproductive rhetoric, and start earning their pay by fixing the deficit mess using the best economic measures that they can agree on. (6) "Could Obama's Deficit-Reduction Plan Get Any More Centrist?", by Matthew O'Brien, The Atlantic, 3/13/13, at http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/03/could-obamas-deficit-reduction-plan-get-any-more-centrist/273994/ From a big fan who's listening to KBCY in Seattle: Best regards,John V. Ryan, PEjohnrysf@yahoo.com
It is a Tea Party mentality
Chris Matthews explains it perfectly, I know a few of them.
http://www.msnbc.com/jansing-and-co/watch/whats-next-for-republicans-after-deal-54694979676#