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DAnne you are absolutely right on this one. Unfortunately it is the lefty wing crazies that must keep the divide of racism going. Notice the timing of Al "not so Sharpton jumping on this and all the left leaning networks and talk shows editing tapes and tossing out all out lies to try to energize the left wing base and destroy Zimmerman Months before a presidential election. And let's not forget the master manipulator Obama getting in on the act. It is really pathetic that they have no integrity when it comes to grabbing power. No racism involved here, just an unfortunate and tragic sequence of events and bad decisions on both accounts. The jury got all the evidence and made the correct conclusion.
There is a greater chance of no conviction if there is only one person left standing;i.e, the person exercising the law
Trayvon Martin was walking to the home of relatives in a neighborhood that he had every right to be in. Zimmerman was the agressor in the beginning and because the witnesses did not come out to see until someone started yelling, we don't know who began the altercation. Did zimmerman try to pull his crap of making a "citizen's arrest" as a wannabe cop? We'll never now because the only person who could tell us was lying in the morgue on a slab - dead people don't talk. Let that be a lesson to anyone who wants to get away with murder. DOn't leave any witnesses.
According to the statement Martin was walking slowly in the rain down a street in a neighborhood where he didn't live and was stopping along the way to look through windows.
Then you must be too young to remember the OJ Simpson trial? Good for you!
Maybe we are missing an opportunity for a "jobs" program.
Nevermind puny fencing! I see a wall; two in fact. Large walls following the natural terrain with regular spaced parapets for archers (just in case the Nigerian Muslim installed president or an antichrist takes our guns). The masonry walls shall stretch from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific between Mexico and Amerika and the other wall shall lay between Canada and Amerika; both shall be visible from earth orbit to show how great Amerika and the private contractors within are.
These walls should be no less then 50 feet tall and wide enough at the top for 2 vehicles to cross in opposite directions at the same time. And on these walls I envision towers an additional 30 feet tall located within eyesight of each other where a signal fire pyre will be installed (just in case radios fail) so that if invading illegals from our neighbors are spotted trying to enter or our own citizens try to leave without the required paperwork and vetting, proper authorities along the wall can be notified to respond with maximum force.
Apparently a new legal precedent has been established in Florida. Its OK to stalk and kill another person if, in your opinion, his/her color or clothing renders them "suspicious". Although it has never been tested for a defendant of color killing a white person, I suspect this legal precedent only applies when the shooter is white.
What else did you expect from the State that gave you a not guilty Casey Anthony.
Normally I don't pay much attention to these trivial court cases. However, a week or so ago I was having my car serviced and found myself stuck in the dealers customer lounge staring at the Zimmerman trial on TV for 2.5 hours. Originally I too thought that this was a case of racial violence. However, after hearing the defendants written and verbal statements, the arresting Officer's interview, and the audio tape evidence I found myself convinced on the drive home that Mr. Zimmerman was not guilty. There simply wasn't enough evidence to judge the case any other way. Mr. Martin was walking leisurely in the rain in a neighborhood that was already hit by violent robbers that matched his description. He was seen looking into windows. He tried to intimidate Zimmerman by walking around his car. He later physically assaulted Zimmerman; saying, "You are going to die tonight." The marks from the injuries were on Zimmerman. The sounds on the tape matched both the written and verbal statements as well as the assault marks. I'm sorry my friends, but unless I missed something, I must say that in this case all the violent protests are spawned by racism themselves and are a display of racial bias fueled by pure ignorance.
There is one thing I blame Mr. Zimmerman for. He had no business carrying a gun and approaching a suspect. You don't need a gun to be part of a neighborhood watch, just a phone. Mr. Zimmerman had no police training and that move should have been left to the police. Once Mr. Zimmerman spotted Martin behaving in a suspicious matter and called 911 he should have staid in his car and waited for the police to arrive at a safe distance. The only reason he didn't is because he had a gun. That gun embolden him to do something that almost cost him his life and certainly cost the life of someone else. Had he waited in his car, Trayvon Martin would probably still be alive and Mr. Zimmerman would have avoided the worst experience in his life. If this case has anything to teach us, its that guns cause more problems than they solve. In my humble opinion this case has nothing to do with civil rights or racism. It is simply a ratings happy media--that loves to sow discord--that is painting this as a dividing story because they know their corporate masters love to divide and conquer. We all need to be smarter than that. Shame on Thom for feeding into this frenzy of hatred!
...??? a jury of all women? just for the record? what were thier ethnicities ages and socioeconomic status? hmmm? did they all happen to be african american? pretty pathetic if you ask me! what a shame makes me even more embarrased to be white and even more reluctant then ever to want to be on a jury!
I'm not really surprised, Zimmerman did stalk, confront and then kill Trayvon but your "choices" were the same.
I wish the south would seceed, so they could be free to teach their kids ancient superstitons, force their women to stay pregnant, shoot blacks with impunity and go further backward so we could close the border with them and be allowed to progress without them. Who needs the south? Their a bunch of ignorant, arrogant racists and anyone with half a brain would leave for some other country. We should offer free transport for any person of color who want's sanctuary from these dangerous racists.
Let the south wallow in their own hate and ignorance without the rest of us.
I would like the NW states to seceed from this fascist, criminal, unjust, corporate controlled government so we could stop being forced to pay for their wars, enact just laws, empty our prisons and jails of victimless "criminals" and cut our taxes and improve social services and infrastructure. We would be better off without this federal government.
All we have is zimmerman's version of what happened before the yelling started and neighbors came outside. How do we know that he did not throw the first punch or that he didn't try to make a "Citizen's arrenst" in keeping with his wannabe cop attitude. How about the fact that he was never properly examined and taken into custody before the sheriff in that county was fired and a new one then ordered him picked up. What about information that might be allowed into the trial that everyone else knew about except the jury when they changed judges like most people change underwear. Judge shopping? Pretty difficult for Trayvon to defend what may have REALLY happened when he lay dead on a slab at the morgue. Zimmerman was known to be a liar - hell, he lied to the the judge and his attorney about having money to pay for his legal defense - both he and his lying wife. Are either one of them being tried for perjury. We would have been. Zimmerman was on a first name basis with cops/dispatchers with his frequest phone calls - always about "blacks" in his neighborhood. Racism is now and has been alive in Sanford which is a hotbed of rioting, etc just waiting to erupt. I am a Florida native and have lived in Sanford - and I have relatives living very close by. It was then and still is teeming with racist attitudes and one day that temperature will boil over and if you think you have problems now, just wait. Too many parts of Florida have police forces who use militaristic force way above what the law calls for when acccosting people - especially the black, latino and poor. Since there are usually not any witnesses, whose opinion do you think the law will believe? We are well on our way to a police state her in Florida and the rich, republicans governmnet is all for it. I am ashamed to tell anyone anymore that I live in Florida and understand fully the jokes that the late night commenians use against Florida. They are well deserved against our system of broken justice and government. Nice to have a convicted criminal who in sitting in the governor's office - one of the largest cases of Medicare fraud ever perpetrated on this state against a state consisting with a large population who are on that very same Medicare. Then the republicans in Washington complain about how Florida takes up so much money. Guess what! It went to a lying, cheating, criminal governor for his fraud and to all of his other cronies who have a strangle hold on my what once was a beautiful state. Disny makes their own rules and the police in that city/county cannot overrule them whether it is an accident on their rides or an auto accident/crime on their property. Try to sue them - it's not going to happen. Trayvon Martin is just one poor young man who has been caught up in the criminal governing of this state - a state who cares not one whit about it's poor, elderly or minorities unless they are or are backed by the rich. My suggestion? If you are poor, disabled, elderly and pooor, black or female and not rich, DO NOT MOVE TO THE STATE OF FLORIDA. They have ruined our schools - rich seniors do not want to have to pay for poor people getting an education. They would rather pay for them to go to and be housed in privatized prision run by their rich corporate friends. No reason to educate - just prosecute and send away. Education money goes elsewhere. Am I bitter? You bet the hell I am. I did not live in this state for many years because I married a man who went into the U. S. Navy for 20 years. We had planned to retire to the area around Sanford until the "mouse house" et al ruined that. Eventually in 1995 we did move back and I really hate what MY state has turned into. If I was not in that poorer, elderly, not so well population I would be moving out of this state NOW!! But, I am trapped and absolutely hate it. Everything here is for the rich, snowbird turned permenant resident northerners who have moved down here and now want it to be "what they lived in/about up north." I only wish the hell they would get discouraged and move the hell back wherever it is that they came from. And, I am not alone in my thinking but since I do no have money and clout my voice is muted by theirs when they refuse to allow we such citizens to speak in city council/county counsel meetings, etc. We have no voice and are just, pardon the language, "shit our of luck."
can you stop putting words in our mouths? a yes or no answer in a poll doesn't require you to add your thoughts to the selections. Saying yes to a negative and saying no to another way of saying another negative or what you want us to say is not a poll. Shouldn't a poll have an opposing answer to the same question?
If the black kid has no weapon......accuse him of using the sidewalk. They teach that to kids in preschool down here. I wish I could afford to leave, but old, tired, flirting with poverty, I guess I'll have to hang around and do some constructive bring out the vote work this coming election. I think the outrage may evolve into a positive unifying force for "liberals" to begin putting differences aside and rid ourselves of these self righteous political types by using the most effective weapon anyone has. The Ballot Box.
That's my optimistic take on the situation, but it will only come to fruition if we stop allowing the powers that be to keep us fighting with each other. JUSTICE FOR ALL NOW! PEOPLE UNITE. Vote and take someone who needs a ride with you. Help anyone you can to get registered. Be willing to provide transportation as needed. Even if the Governor has removed your vote! You can bring many votes to the polls. They can't take thay away. Carry someone on your back if necessary. The survival of a Democratic America depends upon it. We must all stop watching and waiting. Time to bring positive energies together for freedom and Justice. VOTE
Some things have never changed in the south, as much as they try to say otherwise. Somewhere there is still some sort of confusion in the Bible-belt about treating others as you would like to be treated. No where in that Bible does it say treat others as you would like to be treated but only if you're/they're a white man. In fact, just the opposite.
I was hoping Thom would be as "smart" about this issue as Ezra Kline:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/07/15/wonkbook-dont-blame-the-legal-system-for-the-trayvon-martin-verdict-blame-the-law/
Ezra quoting Andrew Cohen
“I think the jury basically got it right,” wrote Ta-Nehisi Coates. They were charged only with interpreting Florida law and the facts at hand. And “by Florida law, in any violent confrontation ending in a disputed act of lethal self-defense, without eye-witnesses, the advantage goes to the living.”
Zimmerman’s trial bore a weight it could never carry. It was supposed to bring clarity and course to the events of that night, 18 months ago, when Zimmerman and Martin met in the dark and then things happened and then Zimmerman shot Martin and Martin died. But we’ll never have real clarity on what happened that night. And there’ll never be real closure, either. The legal system promises justice but demands evidence “beyond a reasonable doubt.” When the truth of events can never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the legal system can’t deliver on its promise of justice."
There was all kinds of evidence showing that Zimmerman pursued Martin. Would he have done so if he did not have a gun? I'd bet he'd still be sitting in his car.
But looking back on the evidence, if you listen to the 911 tape where Zim is talking to the 911 operator, you can hear coins and keys and "stuff" rapidly jingling in his pockets while he's huffing and puffing. That means the Zim was not only following Martin, he was "running" after him.
I agree with Green_TZM (and I wrote a long comment elsewhere in this site) that despite the fact that the Stand Your Ground law was not what Zimmerman was being tried under (ha, ha), Zimmerman was allowed to stand his ground but Trayvon Martin, who heard someone chasing after him, was not, and made the mistake of punching Zimmerman to stop him.
I can't entirely fault the prosecution because the judge accepted an argument from defense counsel prior to trial, to eliminate a portion of the jury instructions that would have given the jury the ability to find Martin guilty. If anyone wants to find fault with how the prosecution failed, look at the racist judge, sitting in a racist court, in a racist county.
Thanks aloysiusbe, for your kind words also. Like you, I really wish I could occupy, travel to sites where they are picketing, etc. But I'm afraid at 70 years of age, neither my financies nor my body would support such activities. We have to be very, very grateful for the young people today who are doing those things I used to do in the 60's. And jail, my gosh, perish the thought. Once in the system, very few ever really get out of it. Especially now since they are in large part privately owned and no only like keeping it filled to bursting, they want (and will probably receive) building of more jails. This is definitely not the world I grew up in. Peace to you and your daughter.
Thank you 'Marsh in Florida' for the inspirational words. I sign many of the .org petitions you speak of and have a site to boot, although dont have much time to update... http://vperry.co/. I feel somewhat powerless to do more as a working single mother. The mom story and Zimmerman's to me is enough is really pushing me to dispair. I can't imagine what it would be like for my daughter and I to be separated by jail. I wish I could occupy full time.
aloysiusbe: The Florida mom getting 20 years is no surprise to me. In fact, women in this state (any color) have not much higher standing than Black men. Many women in this state (as well as other southern states) are considered property, and being beaten by their husbands or significant others is an accepted practice. Some women have had limbs broken so badly that they never walk right again or can't carry bags of groceries. Yet, when they"ve (the women) have reached the breaking point and can take no more they retaliate. Unfortunately, they usually pick a time when the man is either asleep, or in no condition to retaliate. This is not new. In fact, it's quite old. If you never saw the movie, The Burning Bed, you can probably get a CD of it out of your library. It must be at least 30 years ago and starred the late Farrah Fawcett. That movie was based on a true story. But such retaliations by women go back to the days of the Founding Fathers.
Remember, women had to march and protest in order to get the right to vote just in the last century? So in the minds of many men, they have all the right in the world to keep "their woman" in line. And the jury system, more often than not in those cases were made up of men. Is there injustice in this country? You betcha! And the best we can do is keep writing our local, state and federal representatives to act to change the injustices. But this is a particularly bad time to accomplish anything positive. We have a bunch of losers all over government. We just have to do better next time. We can also get involved with any and all organizations that do the work for us: seek out and learn about who the next best representatives are from each state, prepare petitions that accomplish our goals and sign into them so they will send you knew petitions on new matters for consideration. I probably sign petitions from no less than 100 different .org progressive entities that have something to do with everything from the endangered species list (Credo, Sierra Club, Humane Society) to legalization of marijuana, stopping privatization of prisons, and tell this or that senator or representative this or that. Occupy something, whether its banks or oil industries or equal rights across the board, it's all up to us.
With all the evidence (FACTS) of the case, WHY are so many people mad about the verdict? ...and why do so many people feel assaulting someone is OK?
Tryvon had a right to confront Zimmerman, but NOT assault him!
I think people are missing a KEY point in Zimmerman's police interview. He said he turned to find Martin facing him. He had to explain how this young kid got the better of him and said, "I was distracted, reaching for my phone". Even the detective asked him, "could that have been construed as a threat to Martin?". But think about it from the paranoid mind of Zimmerman...he has a criminal cornered and is determined to make sure the police get this one...what would anyone in that sitation do...reach for his phone and hope the guy stands there patiently waiting, or reach for his gun to hold the criminal at bay until the police arrive?
Now look at that scene from Martin's viewpoint....some guy is following him, even when he tries to run from him....he finally decides to confront him and ask what's up...rather than identify himself as any kind of neighborhood watch, the guy reaches for a handgun! What would you do?!??! You can't outrun a gun, so you have to jump the guy to keep him from pulling the gun on you. From there, they rolled around until Zimmerman got the gun up and shot him. I actually think Zimmerman:
1. didn't intend to shoot anyone that night, but hold him for the police
2. was too stupid to identify what he was doing
3. probably was clueless at the moment he reached for a gun what effect it would have in that situation
4. actually felt from that point on, that he WAS fighting for his life
I think Murder 2 was a joke, but clear cut case of manslaughter!
The plan of the corporate-owned GOP is to bring back the Gilded Age, when corporations ruled America.
Union busting, forcing people into poverty, corporate-owned politicians, racial tension, ineffective or non-existent government oversight, uneducated population, anti-immigrant sentiment, Bible-thumping, and a class system, where the wealthy and their heirs will rule America.
That is the goal. That is the prize for the elite few. That is why there is no reasoning with them, and no room to compromise. They are remaking America, with the help of the right wing propaganda machine and the voters.
The low-information voters don't have the education or intellectual curiosity to find out the truth, so they simply turn over the responsibility to "them rich people must know sumthin' an' maybe it'll rub off and trickle down".
The working-class don't have the time to research the truth because they're too busy trying to live and raise a family.
The young people don't know anything any different, and have not been taught basic civics or know the role of government. They have no knowledge of 'civic duty' or their rights and ownership of America.
The progressives are stunned, and keep waiting for someone to lead the uprising.
This is the culmination of a long-term plan, and Americans are letting them get away with it.
"Stay the course" said George H. W. Bush. "You're my base" said George W. Bush. Starve the government until it's small enough to drown in a bathtub" said Grover Norquist.
Kangaroo courts in Florida...
consider this ruling...after Zimmerman's aquital...???!!!
A Black Florida woman who fired warning shots against her allegedly abusive husband has been sentenced to 20 years in prison.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/324906/19/Fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-fir...
A racist and backwards state in my opinion.
Trayon did have a right to confront Zimmerman, but did NOT have the right to assault Zimmerman. As for why the court and jury came to a not guilty verdict was based on the evidence of the case. The prosecutor did not ring the "bell" because there was no evidence to do so.
I'm a neighborhood watch captain in Jacksonville Florida.
I don't think it's fair to equate us with "slave patrols" when all we're doing is conciousness raising in the neighborhood and encouraging neighbors to keep an eye on each other and know each other and know what is going on.
Six months before the Zimmerman situation, I was confronted by two black teens, in hoodies, in front of my house in the early afternoon. I stood on my porch, and they didn't move, like they couldn't decide what to do.
I asked them what they wanted, and the "leader" gave me an attitude (like a punk teen, whatever), but he was not looking at me, but looking past me into my house. He was even standing on his toes, looking into my house.
I said (in my meanest voice)"what are you lookin' at? " He said he was looking at what I had. I told him he better move on down the road, and quit looking in women's houses. Then I went in my house.
They stood there for a minute, like they were unsure about what to do, then they went on down the road. I called the cops to report suspicious activity.
Forty minutes later, a cop came by. I talked with him, gave him a description, and told him why I though they acted suspicious, and what direction they were headed. The cop left.
Well, the cop came back two hours later, told me he found those guys. He said "one of them pulled a gun" and he had to arrest them. He found out one was on parole.
I don't know what really happened when the cop caught up to these guys, but I was glad they were off the street.
A week later, Angela Corey's office(DA for Trayvon Martin's case) called me for my sworn statement. I told them exactly what happened, and exactly why I thought these two acted suspicious, and that we had been having burglaries in the neighborhood.
It seems my statement was not enough to lock them up for long. There's nothing more I could truthfully add to my story. I'm glad the cop caught them.
If they had a gun, I never saw it, and I was not going to say that I did. I don't know what happened to the two, but I do know burglaries in the neighborhood stopped.
So, neighborhood watch fills in for the budget cuts to the police department, and keeps watch on the neighborhood during the day when everyone is at work, and at night when people are sleeping, and when people go on vacation.
If you see suspicious activity, you are to call the phone tree, and call the police. The police don't tell you to have a gun, or do patrols, or confront anyone.
Think about it: if they are looking for a home to burglarize, and your house is not an easy target, they will move on to an easier target. By that time, the police will be in the neighborhood and have a chance to catch them red handed.
Anyway, sorry for the long story, but the happy ending is, everyone lived.
The only reason this case became a racial issue was because of poor/criminal reporting from NBC. Even the FBI said there is NO evidence that suggests Zimmerman did anything based on race!!!