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no question that obama is a centrist.
i was not a supporter, as i supported clinton because i believed that obama would run a white house that was a repeat of bill clinton's years.
while hillary's need for establishing her own identity made it less likely that she would simply return to a warmed over bill clinton 2.
but if you examine his statements, and especially his policy positions - which he constantly told people to do by directing them to his website - he specifically moved to the left in order to capture that element of the democratic party. he moved slightly back to the center during the general election, but he never moved away from those specific liberal positions.
to attempt to argue that he did not maintain those liberal positions is simply dishonest and contrary to history.
PLEASE READ AND SIGN!!!! MORE Info is on my blog here on Community Site!!
> Subject: Guam / Guåhan Needs YOUR Help!
> Reply-To: action@weareguahan.com
>
> Dear Friends, We only have six days left to push our petition asking Obama to come off base to speak with the people. Please take five minutes to help us:
>
> 1. Post the following to your facebook, myspace, or twitter status:
> If you love someone from Guam, sign this petition and then post this to your profile. Let’s see how fast we can get this across the nation!
> http://weareguahan.com/2010/03/01/petition-1/
>
> 2. Sign the petition if you haven’t.
> http://weareguahan.com/2010/03/01/petition-1/
>
> 3. Forward the following letter to all of your friends!
>
> If you love someone from Guam, sign this petition and then forward this to 20 of your friends. Let’s see how fast we can get this across the nation!
> Sign the petition here:
> http://weareguahan.com/2010/03/01/petition-1/
>
> Copy and post the following to your facebook, twitter, or myspace!
> If you love someone from Guam, sign this petition and repost this to your profile.
> http://weareguahan.com/2010/03/01/petition-1/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Thirteen Things About Guam
> 1. Guam is a U.S. territory. Practically speaking, this means that while people who claim Guam residency are U.S. citizens (carry U.S. passports, can join the military), they do not have voting congressional representation or can vote for U.S. president.
> 2. Guam is a small island in the western Pacific Ocean. It is 30 miles long, 4-12 miles wide.
> 3. Guam is a part of an island archipelago called the Marianas and is the major hub of the Micronesian region.
> 4. The indigenous people of Guam, Chamorros, have resided on the island for more than 4000 years.
> 5. Guam was occupied by Spain for 300 years until it was ceded to the United States in the Treaty of Paris, 1898.
> 6. In 1941, the United States Navy evacuated all members and their dependents but did not tell the native Chamorros of the impending Japanese invasion.
> 7. The Japanese occupation of Guam lasted close to three years. During this time, the indigenous people of Guam were subjected to forced labor, family separation, incarceration, execution, concentration camps, and forced prostitution.
> 8. Guam was taken by the United States on July 21, 1944 from the Japanese.
> 9. Since the heavy militarization of Guam post-WWII, over 30 species of native birds and countless other animals have become extinct.
> 10. Since WWII, Chamorros have joined the U.S. military in record numbers.
> 11. Under the UN’s list of the world’s 16 remaining “non-self governing territories,” Guam is the world’s longest occupied colony.
> 12. Guåhan is Guam's indigenous name and means 'we have'.
> 13. Guam was governed by naval officers for over forty years. Currently, over 30% of the island is made up of US military bases.
Obama is a centrist, just like HRC would have been if she'd won. He's no FDR but he's way better than Bush.
Why am I not surprised that there are no comments--support or otherwise--on the appalling circumstance of a Mexican family--yes, a family: Mrs. Gomez has children at home that she cleans offices to feed. To add insult to her injury, we read that Mrs. Gomez has to have security detail to continue cleaning up for the white rich man. This humiliation heaped upon her at this time of personal anguish is pathetically cold-hearted. I guess most Hartmann listeners care for the more sexy issues of environment, health care and democracy: Rosaline offers not much they can relate to...
@D.Silva: Welcome to Every Child Left Being until there is No Child Being Left
Richard,
Thanks for your dose of reality. (When I get pissed off with Obama and other wishy-washy Dems, I try to remember what life felt like --- all the paranoia, etc. --- under Bush. That brings me back in a hurry!)
sorry, but thom is simply dead wrong about obama NOT running as a liberal on crucial issues.
yes, he kept things as vague as possible on many, if not most, issues, but he specifically positoned himself as a liberal on some very crucial issues.
for instance:
he was against a mandate, specifically.
he said , specifically, that health care was a RIGHT and not a privilege.
he stated, specifically, that he was for a public option.
he stated that he would close gitmo within a year.
he stated that he would repeal dont ask, dont tell, not simply "work" to change the policy.
these are just a few examples.
there are many more, where he has simply broken his word.
plain and simple.
putting the blame on progressives is a matter of blaming the victim/voter for believing what obama specifically said in order to win votes.
no, we did not misremember.
i have a very good memory.
President Obama is a wishy-washy, piece of crap, just-right-of-the-middle-of-the-road, pro-corporatist. His voting record in both bodies he served in never should him to be anything but a wishy-washy, piece of crap, just-right-of-the-middle-of-the-road, pro-corporatist.
The issue is that a wishy-washy, piece of crap, just-right-of-the-middle-of-the-road, pro-corporatist was WAY better than the alternative.
Peter didn't know his HSA is insured by FDIC? Isn't this a Big Government Program?
Thom, you do have the right to speak on your own show and we would prefer to hear both sides not just the wrong guests side. Also if the repugnuts say health care reform will hurt the Democratic Party, we know it will help.
@ Anjha
I also have several libertarian friends/acquaintances and they do tend to be highly intelligent. They are good people, but they also seem to be in some way sadly damaged by life in a way that leaves them with a dark and pessimistic opinion of the majority of humanity.
Keep smiling,
Ed in Redondo
(aka DancingBear)
Why shouldn't Xe (Blackwater) and the RNC be connected? Blackwater was originally Cheney's baby.
It was mentioned that college educated people tend to be more liberal. I would also like to point out that liberals and those who are college educated tend to be less racist, less homophobic, less xenophobic, and more tolerant of other religions.
With regard to Thom's guest who was afraid of Obamacare, Thom tried to have a reasoned discussion with him. I think that this is a futile endeavor with conservatives, especially the proletariat. Instead we should resort to talking points like Alan Grayson's: "The Republican health care plan is don't get sick, or if you do get sick, die quickly."
Ed in Redondo (aka DancingBear),
Yes, I agree with your much more (than mine) beautifully and thoughtfully stated comment. I think a naive black and white world view plays nicely into the Ayn Rand cult.
Tom, I was really surprised that you would mention that seemingly bogus report about Chief Justice Roberts stepping down. The thing was reported in only one place, an obscure blog, and they had already retracted it. Don't know why you would have given any airtime at all to something that wasn't worth mentioning yet.
All that aside, love you, love your show.
Thought I should add some additional info to walking away. I am a Realtor and considered to be an REO expert. I list and sell foreclosed properties. First let me add some information on "Cash for Keys" Yes, the bank will consider this offer in most cases. The requirements are no damage, no trash or personal property left behind and broom swept clean condition. Also, states have differing laws, in Washington, where I am, and many other states the property is sold at auction to the highest bidder. If the bank is the highest it reverts back to the bank (they always have a minimum bid - sorry no one dollar properties) if a third party or investor purchases the property you will not hear from an agent with cash for keys. I would suggest you attend the auction to see who buys it. If the bank gets it back be polite to the agent, the agent is the eyes and ears for the bank and can be your best friend for now. If your home has a distressed value of $200,000 it is unlikely you will not be able to negotiate over $2,000 normally there is a 1% maximum, but could be less. Keep in mind the banks are not stupid, greedy yes - stupid no, and they have done this numerous times. Next, before you walk away or consider a "deed in lieu of foreclosure", it may be better to try a short sale. It will keep the foreclosure of your credit report, but not the late pays. One comment about short sales, they are a pain in the back side for everyone, the seller, the agents and the bank, but give it a try if possible. Next talk to an attorney, remember the acronym "CYA". I could continue for hours with details, but since I am currently working 10 to 12 hour days 7 days a week, just don't have much time. I will, to the best of my ability, answer any questions anyone has or help you find an agent with short sale expertise in your area. Living free for months and cash for keys may sound good, but preserving your credit should be considered. If you choose foreclosure or walking away, I really can't complain since it is a chance for me to get a pay check. I am after all an REO (real estate owned by bank) agent and very good at it. Since this is an area with endless questions if you have a question you may contact me at - info@realestatea2z.com (no spam please) and allow a couple days for a responce. As I said I am very busy and likely to stay that way for the next few years. I am in Washington State just North of Portland Oregon, but have agent freinds in most states with experience that may be able to help. This is free and I will never charge for answers, giving back is just part of good business citizenship. Lastly, I lean to the left, but many good agents do not, so no guarantees on other agents poitics. I guess we practice poiltical "Don't ask don't tell" LOL.
And thanks to Ed in Redondo. I'd forgotten about Iran-Contra too. Apparently it takes three to remember all of Reagan badness.
Tom,
With the new health care approach of including several Republican ideas from the health care summit last week, I have a novel way of presenting these ideas for a vote.
The Democratic items that Obama wants to put through reconciliation should be isolated into one bill, which of course will not get any Republican votes. The items he has identified from the Republicans can then be isolated into their own bill. The interesting aspect is how much support will this bill get from each party.
I think letting these ideas stand alone will highlight the real support the Republicans have for their ideas, among themselves and their Democratic colleagues. As an added notion, each Democratic Senator will be free to vote as they wish.
This could be a great example of possible hypocrisy and bipartisan support.
I would really like to see how many Republicans would end up voting for any health care reform.
Thanks,
Bill
The only thing Ferrara said that had a smidgeon of truthiness was that "Obamacare" is fascist. The mandate to purchase a for-profit insurance policy is a little too close for comfort. Short of Medicare for all, what other options is there to force insurers to lower costs?
OMG - Medicare covers our older people who naturally have a greater need for medical care without recission. The healthy people are given to the private insurance companies in our employer-based system and the insurance companies will work hard to break Peter's precious contract if he gets sick.
If the healthy people are brought into the Medicare coverage pool then the cost will go down per person so the Medicare system will be stabilized AND the people will not get cut off if they get sick.
Again, if the Democrats pass a mandate without at least a strong public option they will take a real beating in this fall's mid-term elections.
@Dancing Bear
"If I had to assess Libertarians as a group I’d say that unlike your typical knee-jerk conservative, they tend to have a more highly developed capacity for reason. So much so in fact that it frequently leads them to a form of intellectual hubris and even folly. Where they typically fall short is in the realm of their ability to recognize some very basic empirical truths about the nature and boundries of human nature. Their reason leads them to desire a hyper-logical social order that ignores the fact that there is much, much more to being human then just our capacity for rational self-interest. Indeed, if human nature were as Libertarians imagined, we would be much the lesser beings for it."
So true, so true.
While Thom was speaking with that man this morning and they were arguing about [discussing] the "influence" of professors in college, my mind drifted to my one "conservative" friend. She is not really conservative at all, but rather Libertarian.
She is extremely intelligent. One of the most intelligent people who I know and I love her very much, however, we cannot discuss politics at all.
I know that she is very caring and I know that she is very well studied in many disciplines. She is grounded and she is emotionally mature...this in particular is why I am so confused about her political perspective.
That is why I drifted during Thom's discussion into attempting to figure out what influenced her perspective. She is of the Ayn Rand school, (though I have never asked her outright if she studied Rand, because I have learned that there are some topics that are better left un-discussed with her.)
She does have a negative view of human nature and she was also raised in highly conservative political environments. That is why I suspect that it is nurture that determines the Libertarians world view. That, perhaps, Libertarians are really Liberals who conform to Libertarian philosophy because that is the only way to, emotionally, reconcile their intellect, values and personal experiences with their upbringing.
Just a thought.
Thanks, Dancing Bear, for your thoughtful response.
My boys (9 & 10 years old) woke up early this morning to attend a rally at school. They are protesting the layoff of their teachers. But really the decision has been made to continue with cuts to education.
What's being cut? Art, Music and PE.
My boys have been forced to wear uniforms in school.
They are being taught to the test and not to reason.
Our school are teaching them to conform and to think the same.
Our schools are teaching my kids:
- Dress the same
- Think the same
- No creativity
- No exercise
If they grow up with everyone around them being the same and thinking the same. Will they then distrust anyone that thinks and looks different?
Are they being trained to be Conservative?
@ Quark
Your comment seems to agree with a comment I recently heard about someone’s observation that so many liberterians seem to be young men who have not yet experienced a lot of life’s challenges. They are often from the Ayn Rand “school.”
Rand's vision has little in common with real world as it is actually lived and experienced, but it does have a kind of idealistic fantasy-land appeal to those who have not yet gained a firm grip on the true moral and practical complexities of life. It is a form of ideological fundamentalism and as such, it has the same kind of appeal that religious fundamentalism offers - i.e. it takes a complex live world reality and reduces down to a simplistic model that does not require one to think so much (just so long as you are willing to ignore the occasional fact).
Ed In Redondo
The New(?!) Business Model for Big Pharma?
About a year ago, I had a little brush with skin cancer. No big deal, really - my wife spotted a suspicious growth on my back, and we're fortunate enough to have semi-decent health insurance, so I went to a dermatologist. He froze it off, and we scheduled follow-ups for 6 months and a year to make sure it was all gone.
Just had my 1-year follow-up, and everything's fine. But he noted some splotchy redness on my face. In fact, I've pretty much ALWAYS had that - it's most likely a result of 35 years of shaving over the remnants of my acne scars. Whatever it is, he assured me that it's nothing to get concerned about,
but he gave me some samples of some stuff to put on it, wrote me a prescription for it, and handed me a coupon so that if I decide to fill the scrip, it'll cost me $25 or less. Mind you, this has NOTHING to do with my HEALTH - this is really about little more than vanity.
Anyway, I took it all home & showed it to my wife. The coupon amused her. That's when I realized that I've seen this business model before. Do you recognize it?
Let's see, now - the first dose is FREE ...and the next one is quite affordable. After that, my friend, it's gonna cost ya!
Sound familiar NOW??
If intelligence is the embracement and distillation of new ideas, how can the rigidity of atheism - the absolute belief in the non-existence of God - be condidered any more intelligent than the rigidity of religion?
I would like to know if the study on intelligence that Thom cites seperates agnosticism seperately from atheism.
As a physicist I understand that, scientifically at least, that we are seemingly limited to the rational limits of understanding within our 11 dimensional universe. As such I know that the cosmos - and intelligence - exists, but from where they come from we cannot scientifically say.
I partly agree with Thom (and I hope I get his thought right) that the most intellectually honest form of religion is agnosticism. But where agnostics are not sure of the existence of God, as a staunch Calvinist I am of the opinion that Chrisitanity is just another form of agnositicism, one in which we are resolved by logic to concede that we - alone - do not have the ability to pierce that veil of knowledge of the personality beyond or own rational universe.
So just how can an intellectual liberal believe in the Divine? I'd love to answer the question, but first I must go feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless and seek justice for the oppressed.
I think that's liberal enough.