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@THOM: Ask Gibson to name one worse President and give a reason why . . .
John Gibson IS correct that the DLC Democrats called for regime change in Iraq. Just another instance of the far right calling centrist Democrats leftists.
I called John Kerry's office yesterday, told them I was a constituent, and asked them what the Senator's position on the Healthcare Bill was. They wouldn't tell me. So I pointed out that the senator's job is to represent me, and I deserve an answer. I was told that if I put my request in writing they would "try to respond in three or four weeks"
Robert Miller,
Did you see this column by 27 year CIA veteran Ray McGovern?
Obama's Profile in Courage Moment
By Ray McGovern
November 24, 2009 http://consortiumnews.com/2009/112409b.html
Of, course Gerald Posner would tell you that Oswald was a lone nut, Case Closed...
I keep wracking my brain for President who was worse for America.
William Henry Harrison died to protect America from his full term . . .
Herbert Hoover was a piker compared to G.W. Bush . . .
Ronald Reagan only half destroyed America . . .
Can anyone point to any progressive goal that Obama truly supports?
If so, it would seem prudent to start pushing such goals forward, if the progressive base doesn't get some sort of a win under Obama soon, its screwed.
Well, I wouldn't call him a leftist, but I AM feeling swiftboated by Obama et al.
I saw the clip of Bernie Sanders in the Senate yesterday. I sure hope his blood pressure medicine is working!
Thom I have come to be of the opinion that the people we have put in office as agents of change have been threatened,Them and thier Families, Weather by Right wing Burreaucrats which have been put in place by the Regan Right Wing or right wing Military Personell I dont know but someone who is not subject to elections or removal and I believe that the people who were let into the White house a couple weeks ago were those peoples way of saying to President Obama that "see we told you we can get to you and your family anytime".
President Obama did not knuckle under . . . Obama is knuckling us.
I know that most people are preoccupied with the Health Care debate and the miserable deal we are asked to settle for. I however want to comment on the subject of hour two. "How the Left "Swiftboated" America" and John Gibson's contentions regarding G.W. Bush not being the worst President in history. I am reminded of an amusing and revealing anecdote which partially explains the rift in perceptions of liberals and conservatives.
Two friends are walking down a country lane together. One is a liberal, the other a conservative. They came upon a dead bunny with tire tracks clearly visible on his back. Later that day when asked to recount what they had observed on their walk. The liberal mentioned the poor bunny which had been run over, hit by traffic. The conservative told of the poor rabbit which had clearly committed suicide.
How is it that two people who see the exact same event, "see" things so differently? Once you eliminate brain damage, or infirmity, you left with perceptions and preconceptions or plain old willful dishonesty. One must assume that John Gibson has at least a functional intellect. So what explains his long record of cognitive dissidence as demonstrated by his many inane statements made on Faux News? Why does his brain leap to the suicide solution? I don't know personally, but, suspect it is a combination of having drunk the Koolaid so often, (Koolaid Poisoning), a contrarian nature, and the willingness to sell his integrity for 30 pieces of silver. Whatever the reason(s), the fact that his words are given an audience is sad. Even Faux News took him off the air! The only satisfying justification for giving him a microphone again would be to hear him being hoisted by his own petards. It is not usually Thom's nature to do so, but, I hope we will be treated to his being exposed for the charlatan he is. After the recent disappointments, I am in no mood to suffer another fool. I wish Richard L. Adlof could take over this upcoming segment. No offense intended Thom. Sometimes you are a little too rational and forgiving by nature for circumstances like this. GRRRRR :-)
All I can say is this: I'm beyond disappointed with Obama. The few crumbs he has given are just that...crumbs. I, for one, don't ever think I will vote again. You fight and fight and fight and the one you fight for is just like the ones who screwed it up. The only argument will be what the band is playing while the titanic sinks.
Re: The republicans are against....
Let's be fair and acknowledge that the Obama Democrats are against.... too!
There's not all that much different between the two parties.
I want real change, so I am voting 3rd party!!
progressives have consistently violated the most important rule for any negotiator.
any successful negotiator has to be willing to walk away from the negotiating table, and he has to let the other side know that he is serious about that possibility.
any serious negotiator always maintains the serious and credible threat that he/she will simply get up and end the discussion if their bottom line is not tended to adequately.
otherwise, a negotiating partner can simply hold out until a deal has to be made, in full recognition of the fact that progressives will always make some deal, any deal, no matter how bad.
progressives like tom harkin reek of this desperation and it fatally cripples any attempt to get the kind of legislation really necessary.
progressives in the house are even worse, as they consistently stake out strong positions, only to capitulate time after time after time.
no one takes them seriously, because they know the pattern of conduct and they know full well that progressives will never walk away from the negotiating table on matters of real importance.
if progressives are ever going to exert the kind of power their numbers should command, they need to walk away from the table.
they need to let the white house, congressional leadership, and republicans know full well that a new day has dawned and from this point on, if the needs and wants of progressives are not seriously adddressed and tended to in future legislation, that they can not simply pencil in their votes, no matter how putrid the compromise demands.
they need to get up and walk away from this putrid health care "deal" and they need to send the signal that can change the entire course of obama's last 3 years in office.
if they continue to capitulate and allow themselves to be taken for granted, there is no reason to expect that the white house - or anyone else, for that matter - will do anything but insist that they go along with any and every bad law that they believe they need to pass.
do they have the guts to do this?
We progressives have "compromised" on single payer, public options, Medicare expansion....what exactly have the conserva-Dems given up? Nelson, Lieberman, et. al....what is IN the bill that they do not like or what is NOT in the bill that they gave up?
Right on Thom! Once again you've inspired my writing. Don't know if your website accommodates links (I'm barely computer literate), but I'm including a link to my blog today on healthcare at Talking Points Memo.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/watt_childress/
Me patting myself on my back:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Recessivism
Tim Pawlenty is having trouble gaining name recognition in New Hampshire:
YO NEW HAMPSHIRE!!!! Pawlenty is the dude who allowed the bridge to collapse and kill and maim 179 citizens because he thought that preventative maintenance was an evil Democratic plot.
@THOM: I can find no flaw in your supposition that Senator Lieberman played the villain to provide political cover to President Obama and give the President the bill he desired.
Special Comment
Keith Olbermann's "Special Comment" last night echoes all the emails I sent to the White House and my U.S. senators yesterday, including my last statement: "I will not pay!" (Video)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/34455431#34455431
good again --
my gripe --
Sanders stopped the SINGLE-PAYER LULLABY --
to keep BUSINESS AS USUAL --
just because something has been done for a long time
does not make it right!! --
learned a lot from your segment on TRADITIONS --
thank-you for your consideration -
GRATEFULLY EVERYTHING CHANGES --
with SO many options -- mm
You state that the tea partiers’ grievances are mostly legitimate. While I think that is true, I believe they are demonstrating in the wrong places. They should be marching down K Street, and Wall Street and downtown Hartford. I recognize that those in power in Washington DC are elected to be our advocates, not the corporate lobbyists, and we should all petition and lobby our government to fix what is wrong. But therein lies what I feel is unfair praise given to the tea party crowd. Prior to praise or mainstream acknowledgement of their power and numbers, the media must report FIRST that they are a top-down, corporate funded organization designed to further corporate interests. What they perceive as wrong with government was in full bloom during the Bush Administration. Why weren’t they out in numbers back then?
Thom, you need to stop giving the tea party crowd a legitimacy they do not deserve.
I think these people are low information voters. And they are voters. And they are important by that sole measure. But so were segregationists.
Look at the signs they carry. It’s not about too much government. It’s about a black man in the White House. Why else would a 90 year old Grandmother attach a sign to her government paid wheelchair saying she doesn’t want the government involved in her health care? This group of people look at a black person and they think he and those like him are just trying to milk the government for everything they can. It’s an old stereotype: one I was raised on. They had no problem with Republicans growing government for themselves and their corporate friends. Tell me why that is? Is it because Bush gave the nation a feeling of safety and comfort? No, he scared the crap out of people. He said there are people who are evil, and they are in this country. And it was his job to keep them out of any sphere of influence. Naturally, liberals and progressives fell into that evil crowd. Now they are in power. And it scares the crap out of a lot of white people.
Picture a debate about healthcare without the scare tactics of death panels, rationing, higher taxes or President Obama looking in on your pelvic exam. Or picture this healthcare debate without the enormous deficit bequeathed to us by Bush.
I share your desire to see President Obama get out there and kick some butt. I’d like to help. And I am. I am a leader in my community of a state-wide Progressive advocacy group that works to elect Progressive candidates and further Progressive issues. It’s hard work. Most of all, my recent involvement has had a deleterious affect on my idealism. I am much more practical and measured. I look to small consistent steps. I’m still an activist and I have big voice. That won’t change.
In my gut, I think I know how the President feels right now. A lot a good work has been done on this legislation. We are not done yet. I think consistency and forthrightness will prevail. Not scare tactics and ultimatums.
good morning from camp luna linda --
UNCOMMON --
reading an amendement to the public before it becomes public law --
IMAGINE --
Sanders "thank-you for reading the entire amendment to the public --
thank-you for educating the public to the overall benefits of single-payer --
the way it will reduce the healthcare costs to employer and employees "
WATCH FOR --
more readings on single-payer legislation --
thank-you for your consideration --
GRATEFULLY EVERYTHING CHANGES --
with so many options
Thought this was totally true:
http://www.borowitzreport.com/
http://www.catholicscomehome.org/