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No. Not a growing trend. It's been going on for some time. Now America's short attention span is captivated over what looks like a trend? (I'm paraphrasing. I love your show) No way. If you think this is trend, then you're one of those folks that's been turning away whenever something like this pops up. Remember Rodney King? People forget just how far America is willing to go when it comes to police overstepping their authority. I can see this officer speaking to a total stranger this way. In a provacative way designed to provoke rather than mediate. As a former dispatcher, I can tell you that the evening shift is usually the most activity prone. The busiest of shifts. I for one do not like seeing our police officers dressed as though they were an occupying force instead of one that protects. If you have to dress up this way, call the national guard. And swat teams that wear ski masks? Why? Customer service is of utmost priority to officers while on patrol. It will save them. The community as does a person, responds better when treated as an adult, not a degenerate. I urge Americans to use their video cameras more often because this spotlight on law enforcement will rapidly dissipate. Let us not go overboard. The police do serve a valuable purpose.
Off topic, but: Compare the movies "In Bruges" (2008) with "Calvary" (2014). Brenden Gleeson stars in both...in the first (In Bruges), he's a hit man sent to kill a pedophile Priest but is totally conflicted because he had previously, accidentally, killed a choir boy in killing a prior pedophile priest; and in the second (Calvary), a non-pedophile Priest (Gleeson) told by one of his parishioners in the confession booth that because the parishioner had been molested by a pedophile priest as a young boy and the priest had already died that he would shock people by killing a non-pedophile priest....him. The movie introduces various odd characters and tries to keep you guessing who the would-be killer is. The language and imagery may be shocking to some people.
Palin, there is probably some truth to your generalization about people with sassy mouths. However I agree with Marc; there's no excuse for lethal force against a sassy mouth, or a jaywalker with a belligerant attitude. The kinds of behavior you've just described might be provocative and unpleasant but they are not life-threatening. Most of those behaviors would not even justify a tazer or a stun gun. And you seem to be ignoring the fact that in many of these incidents, the police officer's aggression was without provocation. Remember stop-and-frisk in New York City, used primarily against young black and Latino men? That is fucking bullshit. And we've see these thugs-in-uniform assaulting peaceful protesters enough times to be certain whose interests they are protecting.
Having such dangerous unprofessionals "serving" within the ranks of law enforcement creates a fascist, hair-trigger sort of environment where being confronted by the police is no better than being confronted by an armed bandit.
I'm not going to deny your points about people's behavior towards police officers, Palin. But that's what goes with the territory if you're a police officer. They should deal with obnoxious individuals in a professional manner; maybe even arrest them and cart 'em off to the county jail if the situation warrants it! But under no circumstances, save for life-threatening ones, should lethal force ever be used.
Witnesses said that unarmed teenager killed last Saturday was holding both arms up when he was shot. This kind of bullshit is intolerable, and we as a society should not stand for it. - Aliceinwonderland
When you hover your cursor over the blue time the url should show up in the area in your lower left corner of your browser window...at least it does in mine..and I am using Mozilla Firefox rev 31...the latest. It disappears when you take the cursor off of the blue time. You should also be able to right click on the blue time and then select "copy url" then you can paste it in the comment box or on a text or word processor program.
DAnneMarc: And I certainly agree with you on all that you have said. All I am saying is that people need to smarten up and see the rattlesnake in the grass. If you persist in the direction of the snake you are going to be bit. My understanding of that guy walking down the middle of the street was that he argued with the police and refused to obey them when they ordered him to get out of the middle of the street. The police had no right to do what they did. But if the guy had been smart...he would have immediately said "Yes, Sir" and immediately complied. Things would be a whole lot better for him now if he had. Things would be a lot better for a great many people had they immediately complied and, at least, faked an air of respect.
Aliceinwonderland: You assume correctly. I'm just a WASA (white anglo-saxon atheist) and you may be right and because of that, I see things slanted from my experiences based on that fact. But, I've gotta tell ya' I've seen and heard some Black women and men raising all kinds of hell with policemen (and it is not always Blacks...it is White and Browns and Reds and Yellows as well) when they are accosted by them...kicking and screaming and clawing. They don't act civil but expect the police to be civil to them? Then, there are people who try to provoke an incident with the police in hopes that they could sue them later. Yes, there are people like that!
Many people cause their own problems and make things a lot worse for themselves just because of their big, sassy mouths with no sense. Anyone with good sense should know that having a big mouth, often accompanied with resisting physical and threatening actions, will only get themselves into a whole lot of trouble. Most people will have the good sense not to argue with and try to resist a person with a gun who is trying to rob them. They know that they could very well be killed. So, is it with the police. And the problem is getting worse. So, if people want to avoid being murdered, or just roughed up, they should just try to be as 'civil', and not sass or argue with the cops...and however much it hurts, and is seemingly demeaning, respond respectfully to those you don't feel respectful to. It could keep you from being roughed up or killed. You are not going to be able to talk police out of what they have a mind to do. You can't talk them out of a traffic ticket...don't even try. Just take the ticket and either pay it or go to court. Same thing with everything else...you can't reason with wild animals that can tear you to shreds if they think they have a reason to...don't give them a reason and you might survive.
Civil disobedience is different in that you are not the only one, you are with hundreds or thousands of protestors all resisting in like manner, and are likely being filmed. In participating in such actions, you should fully be aware and expect that you might be roughed up, maybe even killed. Once arrested and carted off away from the crowd, it would be a very good idea to morph back into a compliant arrestee because you might end up being very roughly treated, maybe even killed, and it probably wouldn't be recorded for evidence. And the police would do to you in private what they may not do to you in public.
Palindromedary ~ Police have a number of weapons other than guns at their disposal. They have batons, pepper spray, stun guns and tasers. They are equipped with radios and capable of calling for backup at a moments notice. All have been trained in self defense; and, many have a military background. When a policeman reaches for a gun there can only be one reason, a direct threat to to his life. Society has so equipped police officers with non lethal weapons because we don't want them to use their guns. Whenever a policeman kills a civilian the burden of proof falls on that officer to justify the use of such force. Use of any unjustifiable force is never acceptable when you have the ability to incapacitate with a stun and then handcuff. Reaching for a gun against an unarmed jay walker is a criminal offense and that officer deserves to be treated as a criminal. He should have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he didn't commit a crime. I really don't care what was said or how that young man acted. Walking down the middle of a street simply is not reason, justification, or probable cause to suspect anything dangerous enough by an officer in a moving vehicle to justify overreacting with deadly force.
I noticed that in the Community blogs that the reply to and the #numbers are working correctly. Just thought I'd try to click on "reply" to see what happens. I just clicked on "reply" from a previous DAnneMarc comment and it looks like it doesn't magically make the numbers appear...oh, well, I tried. They do work, like I said, in the Community blogs. Maybe the site administrator will get around to making it work here as well. I suppose we should all try to be a little patient...change sometimes takes time to work out all the bugs.
Palin, am I right in assuming you are not a person of color? My own experience with police has been very similar to yours. But if we are both white, then neither of us can assume our experiences would match those of a black person or any person of color; especially if that person is young and male. Most of these unwarranted shootings, fatal chokeholds, etc. I've been hearing about involve young nonwhite men. - AIW
Palin, I tried hovering my cursor over the time next to my name and all it does is turn from blue to red. No number. - AIW
RogerH: I definitely agree with you.."No matter what is 'said' to a police officer, there is no excuse for physical abuse"...Well, there are exceptions though...the person could say: "I'm wearing a bomb and I will kill us all! " I think that is cause to do something drastically physical. If the person claiming such a thing indicates that he could be a threat to anyone...they have the right to defend and protect not only others but themselves. "Never heard of a judge that sentenced anyone to a beating or death by a policeman". I think it would be very rare unless the community really gets ticked off and demonstrates...then the police chief all the way up to the mayor, or beyond, is getting pressure put on them to administer justice.
DAnneMarc: Could be because I am using Mozilla Firefox Rev 31...the latest update? Just a guess. But, whenever I type a word that isn't spelled right, I get a wavy red line under my misspelled word. I can also copy and paste from LibreOffice Writer into the Comment area and it spell checks also. But that is only if I either have Thomhartmann.com blocked in NoScript which defaults to "disable rich-text"...or...if I enable Thomhartmann.com in NoScript and then disable rich-text. When rich-text is enabled, spell check doesn't work when I copy and paste from LibreOffice Writer or from notepad or when I type into the comment area. With rich-text disabled, I get spell check from copy and paste from LibreOffice Writer or from notepad or typing in to the comment area.
There is an active discussion going on over at the Community blog site where Nigel, the Webmaster, is responding to various comments about the new changes.
http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2014/08/new-website-design
Yes and No should be sufficient. No matter what is "said" to a police officer, there is no excuse for physical abuse. If there is a law violated the suspect can be arrested and the courts can decide if punishment is in order. Never heard of a judge that sentenced anyone to a beating or death by a policeman.
DAnneMarc: I do see what you mean now. A work around till, or if, this is changed: One thing you can do to refer to a specific comment is to hover your cursor over the time (in blue) that follows the commenter's name and then note the last number (eg: #279641...That's Alice in Wonderland's last comment) that displays in the lower left then use that number as the reference to the comment. Or, you can right click and copy link location then paste it in your comment and then delete everything but the number. When the person reads your comment all he/she has to do is to hover their cursor over the time (in blue) following each comment, look in the lower left to see if that matches the number. It may not be as easy as before but it is a work around.
Another way to do it is to just quote a very short phrase (you don't have to quote the whole thing)...and then it would be relatively easy for people to do a page search for that specific phrase. It should take you right to the quote.
I'd bet that many of those people, who were abused by police, probably partly brought it on to themselves by sassing or arguing with the police or not immediately following their orders. But, that is usually something you never hear about. I know some people can be real impossible nags and argumentative and totally disrespectful and it shows. The police should be chosen and trained to react in a manner that does not put people in danger, for sure, even if people react in a verbally abusive manner. But I don't think many cops will stand for verbal abuse or argumentative people. If people were smart, they'd show absolute respect and subservience to the people who have the ability to kill you if you piss them off...because they just might do just that. Take it up later in a court of law with a lawyer if it is that important to you. When ever I have been stopped for a traffic violation, I have always been courteous and responded "Yes, Sir" or "No, Sir" and the police have never been discourteous to me.
DAnneMarc: That is really terrible news! I really liked Robin Williams. This is the first I have heard about it. Wow! Only 63...who would have thought that Robin Williams, as funny as he was, was depressed. I think he lived in San Francisco. Maybe he had other places too, I don't know. Thanks for telling us about that!
DiAnn,
Robin Williams was greater than just TV and movies. Here he's doing stand-up comedy in the tradition of George Carlin.
Weapons of Self Destruction - Robin Williams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiCxqbT2Ru8
The founding fathers knew of the danger of religious base government that it could have on the country and its inhabitants. Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition, how about radical Puritan faction known as the English Separatist Church. Today in the news there is a radical Islamic faction in Iraq that is killing innocent people because they don’t believe in their form of Islam, and they are committing genocide today. I do not support any type of genocide of religion, race or culture especially by a religious faction, which was tried once, in Hitler’s Germany, by the slaughtering of the Jewish and other non-Aryan cultures, which a religious base government can pursue. If you take some time study history, world history of religious, Theocracy governments as in the government of Iran, Afghanistan, most of your Islamic governments and other governments. You’ll find more times than not that such government tends to be a dictatorship, as is happening right now in Iraq. However, the elimination of this certain radical Islamic group, ISIS that they are committing genocide themselves, should be a priority for elimination by the total support of the industrialized nations in this world today. Their main goal is to conquer the world and emanating those who do not agree with their form of religious values. This is why the founding fathers of this country insisted in the separation of church and state. For this country will not have a religious dictatorship that can enslaved, tortured and eliminate citizens of their country for not believe in their form of a Superior Being.
Even the mids are at risk today as evidenced by by the incarceration of Cecily McMillan and the death of Bangkok Museum Director Roxanna Brown in the Federal Detention facility near Seattle. Pulled out of an academic conference in Seattle and jailed without bail under dubious charges, she was denied medical care and died an agonizing death in her cell. Federal authorities denied any wrong doing until suddenly giving her Thai son an $880,000 settlement.
Never assume the Popo won't shoot you for just being you.
WE WANT OUR POST NUMBERS BACK! PLLLLEEEEEEEZZZZZZ!
Palindromedary ~ Yeah! I guess you could say Thom "walked his blues away."
catman306 ~ Well said! I agree!
This might be off topic; but, we lost a legend today. Robin Williams died at the age of 63. Possibly a suicide due to a severe bout with manic depression. He will be sorely missed.
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/08/11/robin-williams-dead-at-63/