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I would like to respectfully point out that if one wants to vilify somebody (e.g. Richard Nixon) your case is weakened by criticizing in areas where it is undeserved. In this case I am referring to the comment by DAnneMarc, "Look at all the people who perished in Vietnam because of the man." That comment, if it needed to be stated, should have been directed at LBJ.
Although not a single American life should have been lost there, up to the death of JFK, there had been about 200 American deaths in Vietnam. It was LBJ that bought into (or helped create) the rather ridiculous Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Although passed by both Houses of Congress, one cannot dismiss the impact of LBJ in passing the Resolution. And that was just the beginning.
In consequence, there were in excess of 36,000 Americans killed in Vietnam during LBJ's watch. During Nixon's watch there were about 21,000 lives lost--a frightful amount to be sure but over half of these were during his first year in office--and the annual death count was near zero by the time he resigned.
Nixon had many, many faults and Johnson achieved so much good in pushing through the Civil Rights Act of 1964. But to put that unhappy period of American history to the former and ignore the same because of the latter does a great disservice to the truth.
Marc- outside of signing petitions, I don't see many options for me, regarding how to attack the gun industry. I'm not doing well enough financially, nowadays, to contribute $$ to organizations I believe in. There is only so much time (and patience) I have for letter writing and phone calling. None of the above options seem very effective anyway. I'm just sick and tired of these knee-jerkin' paranoids over-reacting to every plea for rational registration-of-firearms policy, screeching hysterically that we are trying to take their guns away. It gets old. - AIW
Aliceinwonderland ~ "Taking your guns away" is a popular rallying cry sponsored by the NRA. After all, allegedly that is why they exist in the first place. (As though the second amendment wasn't enough.) Unfortunately, in a society where anomie and alienation are the widespread norm, such paranoid delusions can also become the norm.
That is why I'd rather attack the gun manufacturing industry. They are the root of the problem The NRA is just a freedom advocacy group. When you attack them its easy for the paranoid to misconstrue that as an attack on their freedom.
In the end we just end up spinning our own wheels; and, that is exactly what the gun industry wants us to do. One fine place to start is by exposing the dark money trail of the gun industry and demand it is banned. Force the NRA to live up to its own claims--that it is solely supported by member contributions. Contributions from "Corporate Partners" needs to be outlawed, and the "Corporate Partners" need to be held fully accountable for the harm done by their product--just like the Tobacco industry. Maybe after they are hit in their pocket book they will seriously reconsider reasonable gun regulations as something that protects everyone--including themselves.
Of course, even after that huge victory we still have to clean up all the black market weapons floating around on the planet that is still available to anyone cheap who is willing to pay for it no questions asked. We will also have to deal with a culture that has been artificially raised in an environment that encourages and glorifies deadly violence. We have the issue of widespread poverty and the crime and social unrest that comes out of it. And then there is the issue of all the cases of untreated mental illness; which, without publicly funded mental institutions and with thousands of returning severely traumatized combat trained war veterans, is not a problem that is going to get any better anytime soon on its own. Gun violence in this country is not a simple issue and will not be solved overnight. That is why we need to make the most of our resources in tackling it. The way I see it, there is no simple solution; and, we have a lot of work to do.
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JC, No one is trying to take away your goddam guns!!! How many times must we repeat this before it finally sinks in? Get a grip. - AIW
P.S. We do not engage on this forum to keep our opinions to ourselves.
Okay Marc. Sorry if I misinterpreted your message. I'll confess, I'd already posted my response to your first message before reading the second one; had I read the second one, I may have responded differently. My apologies for the oversight. - AIW
OK Chuck, I get your point about incompetence in this context. How about evil incarnate? Or healthcare extortion? - AIW
https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2011/04/13-2
chuckle8 ~ If you are suggesting that Scalia is an imbecile you will get no argument from me.
As far as the interpretation of the second amendment is concerned you also will get no argument. The wording of that amendment was not dubious. What it represented in essence was an expression of liberty and freedom as well as the means to protect that liberty and freedom. Whether that be against an oppressive government or someone trying to steal your slaves is irrelevant.
Two things you have to remember, first times back then were very different. Automatic weapons did not exist. Also the prevailing social mores and culture at the time was completely different. First and foremost the founding fathers wrote those laws to appeal to the prevalent masses.
Secondly, you have to remember that the founding fathers were very educated and insiteful. Their wording of the Constitution was meant to express the best essence of freedom and liberty that they could foresee. Nevertheless, as worded--in my humble opinion--it means the following:
Note: it clearly states that, "A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state"; {therefore}, "the rights of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Essentially, because the militia is necessary, people shall have the right to keep and bear arms. It does not say--or imply--that people only have the right to keep and bear arms as part of a militia. That is what Thom and many others simply don't get sometimes. Don't blame me, I didn't write it; but, I sure understand it. It is worded quite simply.
Another thing, it also clearly states "arms". It does not define or clarify what "arms" are. It does not say handguns, rifles, bazookas, rocket launchers, tanks, machine guns, or cannons. It is very generalized. Therefore everything from a handgun to a cruise missile is included. Again, I didn't write it. Obviously, this document is in need of some serious ratification to bring it into the 21st century. While we're at it, The Bible could use some editing too. That we can discuss; but, please don't try to "misinterpret" the English language for me. I am actually quite fluent in it.
BAN THE BULLET!
The constitution doesn't prohibit outlawing bullets; we should make it illegal to manufacture, sell, buy, possess, or import bullets.
Without bullets, guns are just ugly paper weights!
BAN THE BULLET!!!
Really?!? There are no guns in Australia?!? I don't believe it.
Now there's a social improvement that must be implemented...there's too d@#n many unqualified and irresponsible parents on this planet.
ste -- Have you heard of the continent/country Australia?
.Australia put the genie back in the bottle.
JC -- Do you know what democracy is? As Winston Churchill said it is the worse form of government except for all the others.
I bet Winston would say one of those forms of government worse than democracy would be the gun manufacturers telling us what the laws should be. 90% of the people want simple restrictions on gun owrnership, even more restrictions than the gun show loophole. The NRA told congress if they want to get re-elected they should not pass that law. Congress saluted and kept it from becoming law.
http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1
DAM -- You need to read the new book about Scalia.
The author was on one of the not-RW talk shows, pointing out Scalia not only was not able of understanding law, but he totally corrupted the English language in his interpretation of the Second Amendment. Also, I agree with Thom when he says militia means National Guard or Slave Patrol. I think it is intersting that Article 1, section 8, says that militias are to be used to put down insurgencies. That has to mean insurgencies like Clive Bundy and members of the Whiskey rebellion.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/171776/does-nra-represent-gun-manufacturers-or-gun-owners#
DAM -- You need a decoder ring.
1% means 0.01%
NRA means gun manufacturers.
DAM -- I do not think you should call it incompetence. They are very competent in making a profit, their only goal.
agelbert -- Please send it to John Boehner and the repugs. If the prez pushes it, it will be blocked on every turn.
Aliceinwonderland ~ I'm not defending the NRA--I'm putting them in perspective. Gun manufacturers fund these guys. They are nothing more than front men for the real bad guys--the exact same way the Democrats and Republicans are front men for Corporations.
Please don't think I'm defending them or dissuading registration, licensing or insuring guns. I'm all for that. However, the truth is that if you disbanded the NRA tomorrow the gun manufacturing industry would just prop up another group. These peoples agenda is to sell as much guns as possible to maximize their profits. All they see are their profits and to hell with everything else. We need to focus some of our steam on the manufacturers--don't you think?
As far as being responsible with your guns, locking and hiding ammo, I am all for it if you have underage or irresponsible people in your home. I think it is the worst idea to let the Government take "More" control measures against us. Taking away guns will make us all open to terror and crime. I will always be active against more controls. The conspiracy that exhists now is the "Control" of the market availability of 22 caliber ammunition, give me a break. Most dealers of ammunition make the more dangerous "High Caliber" ammo available "Anywhere". If you don't like guns............. Don't own one and keep your opinions to yourself. I do not flaunt my ownership and I am also an avid Hunter and Sportsman.
Marc, what on earth would compel you to defend the NRA?!! Those guys are evil. I've heard the argument about violence-glorifying movies, video games ad nauseam a thousand times already, and while that argument has a ring of truth to it, that doesn't negate the NRA's roie in our uniquely American epidemic of gun-related deaths. I'm getting awfully tired of my liberal friends defending the NRA. Sorry to rain on your parade Marc, but those guys are bad news. Don't you find it rather stunning that the NRA would encourage legislation making it illegal for pediatricians to talk to kids and their parents about guns?! I don't know about you, but I find this extremely troubling.
Thom's points on this topic are just simple common sense. Like I said in an earlier post, anything that can harm or kill people needs to be REGISTERED. There is nothing extreme in this notion. It's the same logic that applies to cars. I've yet to hear or read an argument to the contrary that is convincing enough to change my mind. These folks who squeal endlessly about the "guvmint" taking their guns away are just being hysterical. It won't solve the whole problem but it's a start. - Aliceinwonderland
You just can't fix stupid can you. What kind of parent would leave loaded guns laying around when there is children present. Never mind a license for a gun I think you should have one to have kids.
On a total different topic all of you who disapprove of the Keystone pipe line will be glad to know our Canadian Government just approved the Northern Gateway pipeline from Alberta to Kitimat BC There is a very mixed reaction here of course. On one hand selling a extra 800,000 barrels a day at $100 dollars a barrel is a additional $80,000,000.00 (US) a day into the Canadian Economy, create thousands and thousands of good high paying jobs. On the down side Canada's green house gas emissions will go from 1.7 % of the worlds to 1.8%
Turning down Keystone is going to end up being a huge mistake. All hell is breaking lose in the middle East and oil prices could go through the roof. It could cripple the whole US economy. Anyone remember the 70's. The good news is it will help motivate more investment in solar, wind and Natural gas. Come to think about it maybe that was the plan all along. Hummmmmmmmmm
I just hired two guys one on the west coast an one in Edmonton. It is a good thing looks like I am going to really need them now. Anyone need a job looks like we are going to get really really busy.
Remember a little while back I said you should buy real estate in Alberta, Canada. I hope you did your 401K is going to look much better soon.