I repair a wide variety of facsimiles and copiers.
Interesting nonpolitical anecdote: Every year, the students bring in reams of paper for the teachers at my school on Day 1. I am one of the youngest and most technologically-advanced teachers at my school. We have a school set of Ipads, but I am literally the only one who knows how to use them, so my students get to use them all of the time. I scan and email them worksheets, links to videos, etc...
Anyway, by this point in the year, all of the other teachers have run out of paper, while I don't even know how to turn on the copy machine because I've never had to use it. So when the call went out for "any extra paper", and I answered with about 60 reams, my boss asked me how I did it. I told her I just scanned everything, and now I have to give a presentation of how to do that to my peers over the summer. That is, now the boss wants the whole school to go paperless. My evil Conservative side's first reaction was that now I will have to share the Ipads...
The vast majority of my customers are from wealthier areas.
I feel like there are people on this blog who would call that "aiding the enemy". Just kidding...
This is why I am not so concerned about any coming "uprising of the oppressed" or anything like that. One of the busiest highways in Chicago during rush hour leads from the city to the wealthier suburbs (The Edens, for you locals) - an army of workers, going where the money is. I used to be one of them years ago. I think, when it comes to grabbing pitchforks and torches and getting back at the people who "oppress" you, cooler heads will prevail. The poor working poor will think about all of the nice, upper-middle-class people they know, and continue on about their normal lives.
DAnneMarc: Very good story! Thanks! No hard feelings..not that fragile actually. And I sure do know about those hard to please customers who expect something for nothing...especially when those people can easily afford it.
I did not see you comment about the 1.5 million more votes for the democrats in the house.
I have two comments for this:
1. How many people don't vote because they live in "safe" districts, where a single vote doesn't really count? Both red and blue districts. Of course, it's their own fault for not bothering to show up, even if it's like voting for McCain in Illinois, as if he had a chance...
2. I sometimes hear callers to Thom's show lament over how disproportionate representation is for people in some place like Wyoming to some place like New York, since even Wyoming gets at least one representative. That, to me, sounds like an attempt to change the rules of the Union AFTER a state has already joined. Each state joined with the same minimum representatives. If you want to change that now, you have to give states the option to leave.
Which makes me think of something else - Congress' low approval rating, and how Progressives use this against Republicans. But what those polls do - the ones where they ask about Congress' approval - is ask people from all over the country about Congress as a whole. I'll bet if you ask people about their individual representative, the approval rating will be much higher. It's everyone else's representatives that they don't like.
You blame the elites. The racist blame integration. Evangelicals blame "godless liberals". Capitalists blame Socialists. Some people might even blame self-centered baby boomers. Everyone has reasoning behind their choice of culprit.
Do most Progressives really, really feel like there is some secret society of "elites" who meet together in smoke-filled rooms and think of ways to screw over the middle class? James Bond villan style? Really? There isn't that voice in your head saying that's a little crazy/far-fetched/paranoid?
I know exactly one Vietnam veteran. He is, and always has been, bitter about how the war ended.
Kend -- I guess I need to repeat over and over. Global Warming has inebriated the jet stream. If you are witnessing ususual weather it is probably global warming.
Quote ChicagoMatt:Don't you think you might be a little prejudiced by your own preconceptions? Like maybe you're on the lookout for snobbery from the rich people? Maybe not.
ChicagoMatt ~ Absolutely not! The vast majority of my customers are from wealthier areas. I have built up a great rapport with people who I would never see eye to eye with politically. Most Conservatives I service are great people. They show their appreciation for my talents as well. I had no preconceptions on how this well to do Deacon was going to treat me. I treated him like everyone else. His demeanor struck me odd at our first meeting which is the only reason I made sure to cover my butt. (That and the fact that charge calls warrant that action regardless of who you are dealing with.) It is just a coincidence that my reality and my instincts turned out to be a genuine match. Remember, it took six months for this engagement to come to a head and this man's true colors to be made apparent.
Quote ChicagoMatt:it's not your company, or because there are laws preventing discrimination when it comes to customers. If it's the later, do you see how someone in the wedding industry might feel if they are forced to service a gay wedding?
ChicagoMatt ~ Not at all. Churches give me the creeps because you never know from one to the other where they are coming from. Nevertheless I have never denied my services to anyone. I repair a wide variety of facsimiles and copiers. I enjoy it because I enjoy the idea of free speech. I believe that everyone should be able to have their say and say it as loud as they want to as many people as they want. After that, let the chips fall as they may.
Chi Matt -- We had a system that was working for everyone. It was the New Deal followed by the Great Society. The wondrous feature that brought it down was it gave too much voice to the middle class. Among other things, it gave voice to students to ask why are you asking us to go into a war for nebulous reasons (Vietnam War). It scared the economic elite so much it motivated Lewis Powell to write his "confidenatial memo" to them. Jude Winewski jumped in with his 2 santa claus plan. This is all detailed in Thom's "Crash of 2016".
Even the Catholics, well the priest at my parish at least, who also happens to be my boss on the school side, he calls the Bible a "Myth that leads us to the truth".
A good book to read is "The Year of Living Biblically" by A.J. Jacobs. It's in the humor section. He writes down every single rule in the Bible, and does as many of them as he can in one year. Like dropping a small pebble on the shoe of a woman in the park - his version of "stoning" her.
Not that anyone cares, but I came to Catholicism on my own as an adult. Besides the spiritual aspect of it, there is also the practical and useful part of it. It's a big, powerful organization here in Chicago. Not a bad thing to join if you can. Much like the Teamsters or the AFL-CIO in that regard.
Quote anarchist cop out:If I may jump in, I think what Marc meant was that they follow the principles of the Gospels. The Bible is such an amalgam of stuff that has so many contradictions that you can justify just about anything you want from the Bible. I may believe in God - and I don't know yet what form it takes or what nature it has - but of one thing I am sure and that is that the Bible is not the word of God, at least, not one, anyway, that would have my allegiance - or my credulity.
anarchist cop out ~ Well said! Very, very, well said!!
You mean like NC's 12th district, which is Gerrymandered to assure a black representative? I guess on the assumption that blacks will always vote for a black. Or the 4th district here in IL, which looks like a giant letter "C" and just happens to be 71-percent Hispanic?
If they could find a way to gerrymander one that included mostly women, they would.
Chi Matt -- They are paid to appear genuinely happy. If they do not appear that way, they are fired. With any unemployment rate above 4% the negotiation between employer and employee is unbalanced.
So, they get angry...so what? What about all of the angry people at the bottom that greatly outnumber those far fewer people at the top?
So maybe they leave. How did that work out for Detroit, when everyone who could left? How is that working for California? For Hollywood? I just read a few months ago how Louisiana is taking over the film industry, to avoid California's taxes. It's happening here in Chicago too. Keep vilifying the wealthy until they leave, then see what you're left with. Besides the lower tax base, you'll also have a brain and talent drain.
There was an interesting testing experiment that they did in LA. They included a "value added" metric to the results. I know in one case, a teacher at the grade school level was near the top in previous evaluations. After value added metric was included she was near the bottom, I wonder how Chi Matt would have done.
It is quite amazing the difference between a Baptist church in the ghetto and one in a white affluent neighborhood.
Don't you think you might be a little predjudiced by your own preconceptions? Like maybe you're on the lookout for snobbery from the rich people? Maybe not.
I'll admit that, sometimes, when I am in a predominately black area of Chicago, I think the people there are mad at me already, just for being there. So I'm on the lookout for behavior that reaffirms my preconceptions, all while ignoring the behaviors that do not.
Or, when I go shopping at a high-end store, I still fill out of place and look for behaviors that confirm my "snobby counter person" stereotype. Even if the people helping me are nice, I don't see it.
That's just my business experience. Between you and me I hate servicing churches. I just don't feel comfortable in them for many reasons. I also have a conflict of interests charging them. It seems like something I should be willing to do for free in many instances; yet, contributing to the obvious sham some of these churches are is equally abhorrent to me. I'd prefer just not dealing with them all together. They give me the creeps. However, that is not my decision.
Without getting too much into your business, is it not your decision because it's not your company, or because there are laws preventing discrimination when it comes to customers. If it's the later, do you see how someone in the wedding industry might feel if they are forced to service a gay wedding?
Or maybe I am muddling issues too much. I've been known to do that.
Pal -- I keep saying this over and over because no one can believe facts. When raygun lowered the top tax rates the rich paid 2 to 3 times more in taxes. I have explained why on several occasions. Do you want me to tell you again?
I think democracy means accepting the choices of the majority and then try to convince the majority that you have a better idea.
I agree. The majority of voters went Republican in 2010 and again in 2012, giving the House to the Republicans. Most of the efforts I've seen at convincing those majority of Americans revolve around name calling and guilt-tripping.
Getting back to the Titanic analogy - back before I had a wife and kid, I'd be the officer who, upon realizing the situation, pointed his gun at his own head.
As with everyone else, my life experiences shape my thinking, and those experiences change my world view over time. Having children probably changed me the most.
I am going to get accused of living in a bubble, but everyone I know, including several minimum-wage workers - they all seem happy. Like the coffee shop I go to every morning - a chain one where I doubt the people behind the counter are making a living wage - they all seem genuinely happy to be there. The guys I hired to do some home improvements for me - things I didn't have to time, tools, talent, or manual dexterity to do - they were really happy to do it. The underpaid Spanish-speaking (I don't know their legal status, so I won't stereotype) members of my church - they are all really happy, friendly people. If we are on the verge of some societal-changing revolution, it sure doesn't look like it from here.
Mark, I'm with you on race-based Affirmative Action. The only reason I didn't participate in this part of the discussion earlier (other than a project I'm working on) is that I'm tired of arguing with people about Affirmative Action. Lots of white folks are outraged by it and call it "racist", which I think is hogwash, but there's no way of getting through to these people who hate it. I view it as a legitimate effort to level the proverbial playing field a little bit. I know there are at least some black professionals who would still be stuck in the margins, doing menial low-paid grunt work, if it weren't for Affirmative Action. This is why I think it was a good policy; it accomplished what it was supposed to accomplish while in effect. But Affirmative Action is history now, so there's no point in beating that dead horse anyway… - AIW
Interesting nonpolitical anecdote: Every year, the students bring in reams of paper for the teachers at my school on Day 1. I am one of the youngest and most technologically-advanced teachers at my school. We have a school set of Ipads, but I am literally the only one who knows how to use them, so my students get to use them all of the time. I scan and email them worksheets, links to videos, etc...
Anyway, by this point in the year, all of the other teachers have run out of paper, while I don't even know how to turn on the copy machine because I've never had to use it. So when the call went out for "any extra paper", and I answered with about 60 reams, my boss asked me how I did it. I told her I just scanned everything, and now I have to give a presentation of how to do that to my peers over the summer. That is, now the boss wants the whole school to go paperless. My evil Conservative side's first reaction was that now I will have to share the Ipads...
I feel like there are people on this blog who would call that "aiding the enemy". Just kidding...
This is why I am not so concerned about any coming "uprising of the oppressed" or anything like that. One of the busiest highways in Chicago during rush hour leads from the city to the wealthier suburbs (The Edens, for you locals) - an army of workers, going where the money is. I used to be one of them years ago. I think, when it comes to grabbing pitchforks and torches and getting back at the people who "oppress" you, cooler heads will prevail. The poor working poor will think about all of the nice, upper-middle-class people they know, and continue on about their normal lives.
DAnneMarc: Very good story! Thanks! No hard feelings..not that fragile actually. And I sure do know about those hard to please customers who expect something for nothing...especially when those people can easily afford it.
I have two comments for this:
1. How many people don't vote because they live in "safe" districts, where a single vote doesn't really count? Both red and blue districts. Of course, it's their own fault for not bothering to show up, even if it's like voting for McCain in Illinois, as if he had a chance...
2. I sometimes hear callers to Thom's show lament over how disproportionate representation is for people in some place like Wyoming to some place like New York, since even Wyoming gets at least one representative. That, to me, sounds like an attempt to change the rules of the Union AFTER a state has already joined. Each state joined with the same minimum representatives. If you want to change that now, you have to give states the option to leave.
Which makes me think of something else - Congress' low approval rating, and how Progressives use this against Republicans. But what those polls do - the ones where they ask about Congress' approval - is ask people from all over the country about Congress as a whole. I'll bet if you ask people about their individual representative, the approval rating will be much higher. It's everyone else's representatives that they don't like.
You blame the elites. The racist blame integration. Evangelicals blame "godless liberals". Capitalists blame Socialists. Some people might even blame self-centered baby boomers. Everyone has reasoning behind their choice of culprit.
Do most Progressives really, really feel like there is some secret society of "elites" who meet together in smoke-filled rooms and think of ways to screw over the middle class? James Bond villan style? Really? There isn't that voice in your head saying that's a little crazy/far-fetched/paranoid?
I know exactly one Vietnam veteran. He is, and always has been, bitter about how the war ended.
Kend -- I guess I need to repeat over and over. Global Warming has inebriated the jet stream. If you are witnessing ususual weather it is probably global warming.
DAM -- Wonderful commentary!
ChicagoMatt ~ Absolutely not! The vast majority of my customers are from wealthier areas. I have built up a great rapport with people who I would never see eye to eye with politically. Most Conservatives I service are great people. They show their appreciation for my talents as well. I had no preconceptions on how this well to do Deacon was going to treat me. I treated him like everyone else. His demeanor struck me odd at our first meeting which is the only reason I made sure to cover my butt. (That and the fact that charge calls warrant that action regardless of who you are dealing with.) It is just a coincidence that my reality and my instincts turned out to be a genuine match. Remember, it took six months for this engagement to come to a head and this man's true colors to be made apparent.
ChicagoMatt ~ Not at all. Churches give me the creeps because you never know from one to the other where they are coming from. Nevertheless I have never denied my services to anyone. I repair a wide variety of facsimiles and copiers. I enjoy it because I enjoy the idea of free speech. I believe that everyone should be able to have their say and say it as loud as they want to as many people as they want. After that, let the chips fall as they may.
Pal -- Where exactly in the constitution is that freedom fighter? The only ones I can find are definitely not fighting their own government.
Chi Matt -- You do understand it. I did not see you comment about the 1.5 million more votes for the democrats in the house.
Chi Matt -- We had a system that was working for everyone. It was the New Deal followed by the Great Society. The wondrous feature that brought it down was it gave too much voice to the middle class. Among other things, it gave voice to students to ask why are you asking us to go into a war for nebulous reasons (Vietnam War). It scared the economic elite so much it motivated Lewis Powell to write his "confidenatial memo" to them. Jude Winewski jumped in with his 2 santa claus plan. This is all detailed in Thom's "Crash of 2016".
Even the Catholics, well the priest at my parish at least, who also happens to be my boss on the school side, he calls the Bible a "Myth that leads us to the truth".
A good book to read is "The Year of Living Biblically" by A.J. Jacobs. It's in the humor section. He writes down every single rule in the Bible, and does as many of them as he can in one year. Like dropping a small pebble on the shoe of a woman in the park - his version of "stoning" her.
Not that anyone cares, but I came to Catholicism on my own as an adult. Besides the spiritual aspect of it, there is also the practical and useful part of it. It's a big, powerful organization here in Chicago. Not a bad thing to join if you can. Much like the Teamsters or the AFL-CIO in that regard.
anarchist cop out ~ Well said! Very, very, well said!!
If they could find a way to gerrymander one that included mostly women, they would.
chi matt -- You see progressives complaining. I see progressives analyzing to improve the situation.
Chi Matt -- They are paid to appear genuinely happy. If they do not appear that way, they are fired. With any unemployment rate above 4% the negotiation between employer and employee is unbalanced.
So maybe they leave. How did that work out for Detroit, when everyone who could left? How is that working for California? For Hollywood? I just read a few months ago how Louisiana is taking over the film industry, to avoid California's taxes. It's happening here in Chicago too. Keep vilifying the wealthy until they leave, then see what you're left with. Besides the lower tax base, you'll also have a brain and talent drain.
Chi Matt -- The democrats in the house in 2012 received 1.5 million more votes than the republicans. Have you heard of gerrymandering?
There was an interesting testing experiment that they did in LA. They included a "value added" metric to the results. I know in one case, a teacher at the grade school level was near the top in previous evaluations. After value added metric was included she was near the bottom, I wonder how Chi Matt would have done.
Don't you think you might be a little predjudiced by your own preconceptions? Like maybe you're on the lookout for snobbery from the rich people? Maybe not.
I'll admit that, sometimes, when I am in a predominately black area of Chicago, I think the people there are mad at me already, just for being there. So I'm on the lookout for behavior that reaffirms my preconceptions, all while ignoring the behaviors that do not.
Or, when I go shopping at a high-end store, I still fill out of place and look for behaviors that confirm my "snobby counter person" stereotype. Even if the people helping me are nice, I don't see it.
Without getting too much into your business, is it not your decision because it's not your company, or because there are laws preventing discrimination when it comes to customers. If it's the later, do you see how someone in the wedding industry might feel if they are forced to service a gay wedding?
Or maybe I am muddling issues too much. I've been known to do that.
Pal -- I keep saying this over and over because no one can believe facts. When raygun lowered the top tax rates the rich paid 2 to 3 times more in taxes. I have explained why on several occasions. Do you want me to tell you again?
I agree. The majority of voters went Republican in 2010 and again in 2012, giving the House to the Republicans. Most of the efforts I've seen at convincing those majority of Americans revolve around name calling and guilt-tripping.
Getting back to the Titanic analogy - back before I had a wife and kid, I'd be the officer who, upon realizing the situation, pointed his gun at his own head.
As with everyone else, my life experiences shape my thinking, and those experiences change my world view over time. Having children probably changed me the most.
I am going to get accused of living in a bubble, but everyone I know, including several minimum-wage workers - they all seem happy. Like the coffee shop I go to every morning - a chain one where I doubt the people behind the counter are making a living wage - they all seem genuinely happy to be there. The guys I hired to do some home improvements for me - things I didn't have to time, tools, talent, or manual dexterity to do - they were really happy to do it. The underpaid Spanish-speaking (I don't know their legal status, so I won't stereotype) members of my church - they are all really happy, friendly people. If we are on the verge of some societal-changing revolution, it sure doesn't look like it from here.
Mark, I'm with you on race-based Affirmative Action. The only reason I didn't participate in this part of the discussion earlier (other than a project I'm working on) is that I'm tired of arguing with people about Affirmative Action. Lots of white folks are outraged by it and call it "racist", which I think is hogwash, but there's no way of getting through to these people who hate it. I view it as a legitimate effort to level the proverbial playing field a little bit. I know there are at least some black professionals who would still be stuck in the margins, doing menial low-paid grunt work, if it weren't for Affirmative Action. This is why I think it was a good policy; it accomplished what it was supposed to accomplish while in effect. But Affirmative Action is history now, so there's no point in beating that dead horse anyway… - AIW