By the way, I believe that we are all somewhere along the line between Conservative extremes and the Liberal/Progressive extremes...so it is difficult to pigeon hole everyone's beliefs. We all agree with some things and disagree with others. I consider myself a liberal/progressive yet I believe in private gun ownership because I believe in not only self-protection (the cops can't always respond in time to save soon-to-be victims..and that usually equates to...dead victims), but I also believe that widespread gun ownership helps to keep a rogue government from going all totalitarian on us.

ChicagoMatt ~ I work on equipment in public schools all throughout the bay area and get the opportunity to talk to teachers from grade school to high school level and what I hear is that education had been sabotaged by a combination of standardized testing and budget cuts--all from right wing interest groups. With standardized testing--no child left behind--teachers are forced to teach to the test instead of teaching about the world. Budget cuts have squeezed out all but the most mediocre teachers. From my perspective I've learned that even in the wealthiest communities the schools are also stripped of books and supplies. The teachers are forced not only to photocopy all assignments for students; but, they are also forced to supply their own paper. Just what do you expect when you treat teachers like that? Even the best mechanic in the world can't fix your car right without the right tools and the right parts. If that is how little we as a society want to invest in our next generation as the saying goes, "You get what you pay for."

If you want to know why public schools are doing so bad point your finger at privatization and right wing policies. They love to sabotage something that works perfectly well, blame the victims, and then sell the wreckage to the highest bidder so they can suck the blood out of it. The same thing is happening right now with the post office. The mere fact that these organizations have been able to stand on their feet for so long under this assault is a testament to their viability. No private entity would ever have endured as long.

I remember attending tax-supported public school where books, writing paper, writing utensils, art supplies, musical instruments, sports gear, etc. etc. were all paid for by the state. Now teachers and parents are forced to dig into their pockets for things their property taxes used to pay for.

I also went to a public school in the 80s and 90s. It was the only option in my small hometown. I have nothing against public education. But you can't deny the fact that Chicago Public Schools spends twice as much per student as my school does, and CPS gets much worse results. Maybe money isn't the only problem.

The problem with education (we discuessed this a lot during my graduate studies) is that everyone went to school, so everyone thinks they know how a school should be run. And public education has been "failing" for so long that no one knows how to fix it. In all of my 34 years, I've never heard anyone say public education is doing well. (I can see you rolling your eyes: the reason I haven't heard it is because of some corporate conspiracy/Koch brothers/media blackout designed to make me vote Republican, right?)

Beyond that, charter schools get to pick and choose their pupils. Unlike tax-funded public schools, private for-profit charter schools are not required to accept all students. so that those with disabilities, learning problems or special needs can be excluded.

So, it sounds like you don't think the regular education students should get a chance at a charter school because the special needs students can't get that same chance? That sounds like, "We must keep EVERYONE down because some people can't get up".

I got my educational start in special ed at a public school, so I happen to know a lot about it. I was paid a full-time salary to be a "one-on-one aide" for a wheelchair-bound student. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but back when you were in school in the 50s and 60s, we're special ed students kept in a separate classroom, away from the other students? Didn't the idea of full classroom inclusion come about in the early 90s? If you want to go back to the way things were in the 50s and 60s, wouldn't that also include special education isolation within the school?

Actually, you could probably help me with this. I have a painting that I found when we were cleaning out my late grandfather's garage years ago. It's all I kept of his. It has a plaque on it that says "The Trial of Cicero". Here is what it looks like:

http://d1435t697bgi2o.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Maccari-...

Mine isn't in color. But anyway, in that painting, which one is Cicero? I always thought he was the one on the right, the one who is being tried.

Please don't take this as a put-down, Matt, but you sound like a bloody hypocrite

I don't take it as a put down at all, honestly. So far I've been called a hypocrite, white privledged, and idiot. Two which I have two replies:

1. If your goal is to convince people to vote a certain way or see a certain view, calling Romney's 60 million voters "brainwashed idiots" probably isn't going to bring any of them to your side. It will just solidify their own opinions and make them work extra hard against you.

2. For as hypocritical and privledged and brain-washed as I sound, Progressives sound VERY arrogant. A lot what what I hear from the other side can be summed up as: "We're right, and if you don't believe it, you're an idiot. Of all of the 300 million or so people in this country, we are the ones who have been endowed with the right answers. We alone have escaped the evil corporate agenda."

How the hell do YOU know the size of the crowds at our protests when the corporate media refuses to cover them?

The local news here covered the G6 protests, some anti-war protests, and the immigration reform protest I mentioned before. But I was basing that statement on Wikipedia's article about the Occupy Movement. The largest number I saw in their graph of protests (since it's an ongoing movement) was 50,000-100,000 people.

Jeez Palin, what a quarrelsome species we humans are! Next time I REINCARNATE (ahem...), I'm coming back as a macaw parrot. Like I said in my bio, they live as long as us, they're a lot smarter and they can fly. - AIW

I know that Cicero, being an orator and lawyer, attended trials but was he ever put on trial where he was present, the outcome of which resulting a guilty verdict and death sentence? I thought Cicero's head and hands were cut off by assassins when he was caught trying to escape from the wrath of Mark Antony who was trying to atone for the assassination of Julius Caesar. Cicero was sympathetic to the assassins of Julius Caesar but Mark Antony proscribed death sentences for anyone who was sympathetic to the JC, "Ides of March", assassination.

By the way, I've been to Brindisi, Italy which is where Cicero returned to Italy after his self-imposed exile (ie: escape before they could kill him). I remember climbing those steps leading up from the Adriatic Sea.

Cicero made lots of powerful friends and enemies and walked a tightrope between popularity and choosing the wrong powers to align with. He was not born into wealth and power, in fact he was a semi-invalid, which is one reason he spent so much time studying...especially the Greek language. But by learning Greek and other languages, and acting as an interpreter, which was all the rage in those days in Rome among the ruling elite, he became very popular. His popularity increased when he became a lawyer and an orator. But toward the end, he made some terrible mistakes and powerful enemies.

There is a photo of a bust of Cicero here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/CiceroBust.jpg/...

There is a painting of him, as a prosecutor, in accusing Gaius Verres, a provincial governor, of corruption:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/verres/ciceroaccusesr.jpg

Quote Aliceinwonderland: I look at it this way: it doesn't really matter whether constitutional violations or drilling & tracking are more directly linked to our demise, because in the end, it's the same end result. We're still dead.

Aliceinwonderland ~ Very good point! I agree.

Scott from Oz says "Downsizing our government is not the answer to our problems, it is the problem." Bingo! Because when we "downsize" the "gubmint", we suddenly find ourselves ruled by corporate hacks answerable only to themselves and their shareholders.

Meanwhile Chicago Matt says "I really hope I don't come across as trying to 'assault' anyone. If anything, I'm trying to show that we're not all evil or brain-washed, we non-Progressives." Hey Matt, we get that. You're not an evil guy, just horribly misinformed about all kinds of things like unions and education "reform" and progressive ideas, and who actually speaks for We The People. Please don't take this as a put-down, Matt, but you sound like a bloody hypocrite when first, you say we can't speak for a majority of Americans, but then in the next breath are telling us most Americans are satisfied with the status quo and happy right where they are. Perhaps you should be speaking for yourself, your pampered pupils and their well-heeled parents.

One more thing, Matt. How the hell do YOU know the size of the crowds at our protests when the corporate media refuses to cover them? I guess Gil Scott was right; the revolution will not be televised.

As food and oil prices go up, and insurance premiums and the cost of medications continue to rise, just remember: it costs an awful lot to subsidize all those CEO billionaire welfare queens like the Koch brothers. That's why we have to keep digging deeper & deeper into our pockets and sacrificing: so that David Koch can afford his twelfth mansion, along with another private jet or two, maybe a few more yachts and a fleet of Rolls Royces. Cheers!

Just remember: corporations are people my friends. And God bless Corporate America. - Aliceinwonderland

P.S. Hey Johnbest, when you piss on Saint Raygun's grave, you can take a nice big dump on it for me. I promise not to tell.

Atta boy.

Hear that Wendalore? - AIW

In fact, let me thank you on behalf of everyone on this blog who might be distracted from the main target. Personally, I think we can expect many such assaults on these popular issues in the future and the voices of people like you and I are going to be sorely needed.

I really hope I don't come accross as trying to "assault" anyone. If anything, I'm trying to show that we're not all evil or brain-washed, we non-Progressives. (I've having a hard time coming up with a label for myself, since I agree with some of what all sides have to say. Any suggestions? Any pro-carbon tax, anti-union, pro-education reform, pro-federal regulation food and banks, pro-reduced military budget groups out there?)

And, please don't take this is as attack, but I think some people way over-estimate how "popular" Progressive ideas are. Conservatives and tea parties do the same thing. Both groups claim to speak on behalf of "We The People" or, as Boehner like say, "The American People..." (If you were here, I could do a great impression.) But, I think the majority of Americans are happy where they are and don't want real revolutionary change. Your typical protest - from the left or the right - draws about as big of a crowd these days as a college football game.

The biggest protest I've seen in Chicago in my lifetime was about ten years ago when undocumented workers marched for their rights. Right which, I believe, they should get. At this point, blanket amnesty is the best option. So I guess I agree with the Progressives on that.