Recent comments
ADHD: Hunter in a Farmer's World
Thom Hartmann has written a dozen books covering ADD / ADHD - Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder.
Join Thom for his new twice-weekly email newsletters on ADHD, whether it affects you or a member of your family.
Thom's Blog Is On the Move
By webmaster
Hello All
Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.
Please follow us across to hartmannreport.com - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.
Part of Pat Robertson's pact with the devil includes the call for the assassination of Venezuela's Hugo Chavez as well as an Egyptian style uprising against that socialist known as Barack Obama. Last I knew his 700 club was tax exempt!
"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead to suit their own desires, they will gather arond them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4:3-4
So you can't say the ole prophet.... Timster....one of Paul's best Democratic Socialist buddies, didn't warn us about Teabaggers, Fox, Koch funded political organizations, and zealots like Robertson.
Wow...... Pap has done a great job sitting in for Thom!
....and canon fodder of our adult sons and daughter!
Yea!!! Let's hear it for FFRF...standing up for freedom FROM religion and separation of church and state...exactly the way it should be!!! I don't care how liberal a church is...and especially if they are conservative...churches have no business (especially if they have tax exempt status) to preach to their congregations on a political stance. The liberal churches (way fewer than the conservative churches) wouldn't feel the need to be so political were it not that the conservative churches seemed to be getting away with it... and unduly influencing elections.
Imagine there's no heaven.....
It's easy if you try..
No Hell below us..
Above us only sky.
--Lyrics of Beatles song--Imagine
I really wish people were a bit more coherent in their grammar and syntax so I could get a better idea of what they are trying to say because I think some of the comments make good points. I like the line geo that some churches preach "vote for the capitalist who protects the fetus but starves the infant." I 've been saying something similar for years to no effect whatsoever--right-wing christians care about people only until they're born. But the lawsuit will probably go nowhere. Under our jurisprudence you cannot sue any governmental entity for failing to perform its designated duties unless it has made itself open to suit under the Federal Tort Claims Act. That's why you cant sue the police department for refusing to arrest someone when they've committed a criminal act, such as George Zimmerman. The police are not determiners of facts. so the case will likely be dismissed.
Also the tax-exempt status of churches is not complicated. They are never allowed to endorse candidates, include purely political speech in any function or on church grounds, or in any publication. Not so with social issues or controversies such as birth control or abortion, racial conflict, immigration and the like. But it has been so long since the IRS made any attempt to enforce the rules against political action by churches that many now openly and flagrantly violate them. "Separation of church and state" is not a theory or controversy. The constitution states "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion." That restriction is made applicable to any state action by the 14th Amendment and the interpretation of the "Establishment Clause" has been developed in jurisprudence by the Supreme Court ever since Marbury v. Madison which I know Thom hates and argues vociferously against but we are a common-law nation for the most part and that issue is stare decisis, a done deal (sorry Thom.).
I'm still 60 plus years down the road trying to figure out just how religion rate some tax exempt status. Those organizations have ALWAYS been political in one way or another.
How do you think they got their tax exemption?
Americas Constitution ""seperation of church and state"
From the words of a visiting european-
I have never seen politics preached from church before.
Just another lie from the constitution and our government.
What else can I tell them? Its embarassing to live here and be a part of the lies in front of ours friends from other countries. When will we not be a joke about everything in our politics?
Yes the Churches pretty much preaches “Vote for the capitalist that protects the fetus, but starves the infant.”
The tax issue is extremely complicated. Do you allow deductions for various Churches that are legitimate Churches, but make it possible for questionable maybe even fake churches to just drain our Treasury?
There is the “Separation from Church and State Theory” that in itself is wrought with controversy. On top of this why do we even do anything, but have publicly funded elections in the first place?
Thom how many issues do you want to touch on with this one topic?
This one is a little bit like how right pulls off with complicity from the center as there is no left; make things so confusing we can make them forget they are out of work, starving and the banks/corporations have completed the theft of all they have, on top of destroying their future.
So many good comments and thoughts above...........Goldwater was correct.............
As are michaelmoore052, and the others above.
I hope the suit succeeds!!!
I'm a member of a Unitarian Universalist church. Most of our members are tree hugging liberals and our sermons commonly take a liberal (what Jesus taught) position. Nevertheless, I would be willing for our church to loose its tax exempt status if the conservative churches will do the same.
Religion itself should be taxed. Call it a "superstition tax." Every word should be taxed $1 to help pay for their murderous wars of stupidity. As a matter of fact, just arrest them for inciting stupidity. And let's quit sending money to the religious warlords in the middle east and Israel and Egypt. Let's separate religion and state. They want to be a religious state? Fine. Let them support themselves.
Barry Goldwater, a Republican Senator, Republican nominee for the Presidency in 1964, a very publicized politician in his day -
Goldwater quote:
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Said in November 1994, as quoted in John Dean, Conservatives Without Conscience (2006)
Looks like Barry knew what was coming.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation is right. Separation of church and state is a two way street. The IRS in fact is allowing a religious institution to craft and legislate public policy with public money. With all the problems this Government has with corruption, we need to encourage a theocracy like we need a hole in our head. I certainly hope the DOJ and SCOTUS uphold the Constitution on this one; or, a bad decision here might prove as bad or worst than Citizens United.
Green_TZM: Thanks for that link. Chris Hedges is great!!! And he is almost always correct in what he says..as far as I am concerned.
http://rt.com/news/chemical-weapons-iran-iraq-980/
Flopot, to your first message, I believe that great learners become great leaders just as great leaders are the ones who show us how best to learn. Please give us something positive to look up to like your message here to inspire will, yet, with hope. Even if simply the hope for the brillant outcome of such a glorious agenda. Hat's growing on me, btw.
I sure don't disagree with you here!!
And now the US is poised to kill even more innocent civilians by attacking Syria. I hold no favoritism for Assad, for sure, but I highly suspect that the US may have been behind the use of chemical weapons in Syria. And yes...the US would do such a thing...as they have many times in the past. After all, if they are willing to mass murder thousands of US citizens on 9/11 and many more in a contrived illegal war, not to mention the hundreds of thousands more of Middle Eastern civilians, then they would not flinch at using a chemical weapon in Syria in order to blame Assad. And US leaders and spokesmen who say that Assad doesn't have any credibility is just ignoring the fact that the US has no credibility either...and they've proven that many, many times over.
As Flopot pointed out, by way of his link, the US helped and probably encouraged Iraq to use chemical weapons against Iran during the Iran/Iraq war. Previous to that information, I was only aware that the US merely provided satellite data to help Iraq win the war.
And here is Flopot's link again:
http://rt.com/news/chemical-weapons-iran-iraq-980/
By the way, thanks to Intok for all those links...very interesting!! I wasn't aware of the MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome) that kills half of the people who get it and the possibility of it spreading via the Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca every year. All those pilgrims returning to their various homelands could easily cause a world wide epidemic where half of the population could be wiped out. The Saudi Government tries very hard to keep on top of this possibility and they go all out to provide medical stations throughout the pilgrimage areas to prevent such diseases. All these pilgrims do not all stay in hotels..they all sleep in tents...one gigantic sleep in. The stifling heat and potential unsanitary conditions (even though the Saudi Government tries very hard to provide sanitation) helps...but is it enough...people coughing..etc? But, the Saudi Government is usually very open about anything that might break out except this year they are being unusually very silent. They have cut back on the number of pilgrimage visas as well.
http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/08/ap_mers/
--Mahatma Gandhi
http://www.mkgandhi.org/nonviolence/phil8.htm
There are no new bridges to name for Reagan but perhaps a gaping chasm could claim the name.
I believe that elected government officials that "swear an oath" to Grover Norquist or any group other than the citizens that voted them into office should be TRIED FOR TREASON. Pinkie swears that negate the cause of my elected representatives to represent me should land the official in prison for violating their oath of office. Put the buzzards in jail and impose free and fair elections for 2014!!
All of change is either awkward or terrifying. And it will never be "got used to". I was just about to permanently rearrange the black chilli and moldy white cheddar on nacho's face for him so that he doesn't ruin the appetite for such a Mexican delicattessen for anyone else but perhaps he's on to something.
We've made plenty of, far too gradual, advancements on social justice since MLK in this unjust nation where every differing type of person on Earth is forced to face each other. But I also agree with Danne in that the real change required is personal change.
I believe that racial tension will exist between whites and blacks for ever as long as the word 'nigger' holds it's evil powers. Powers given to it by racism, racist people on both sides.
Not until anyone can go outside in any neighborhood and holler out loud such a rude gesture and noone listening gives it any more thought other than concern for the current individual's mental state; will racism begin to be cured.
Flopot ~ All too true. However, if this is a response to my previous post you are missing my point. I'm not suggesting we cope with a totalitarian regime. I'm suggesting we learn to cope with each other. Totalitarian regimes maintain control by sowing discord amongst its subjects. Racism is nothing more than another tool of the totalitarian regime to maintain control. That is why one of the first steps to "overcome" is to banish racism, as well as any other "ism" that prevents social harmony. Social harmony, unity and cohesion is the greatest enemy of a totalitarian regime.
You must remember that Dr. Martin Luther King was as much about political change as he was about social change. He knew that social change would have to take place before political change could be addressed. That was his dream. Only through social harmony, unity, and cohesion can we stand up as a people and overcome. That Power of the People begins inside each one of us. That was the dream of MLK. I believe we have reached that point--at least from my own perspective. When we all realized the dream of MLK we will as a people be more powerful than any totalitarian machine. Why do you think he was killed in the first place? His philosophy represents a grave danger to the powers that be. He brought black and white together to fight for the same cause. The power elite would much prefer that they fight each other for nothing than to unify for social/political change.
Be the change that you want to see in the world and the world will change. The power to change the world is within you.
DAnneMarc -- Thanks for the info. It sounds reasonable. Since it is Wikipedia, I will continue to research to assure that Thom's and Obama's take on "negative rights" concurs. Interestingly, the establishment of the post office by the constitution sounds like a positve right.
I still like my take on what negative rights are better. Namely, the "Bill of Rights" prevent "We the People" from passing certain laws. At the time of the writing of the "Bill of Rights", I think our founders were idealistic enough to think that "We the People" were going to make the laws of the land. They must have believed that "We the People" could fend off corporations, religious institutions, mafia, and unfair employers. I think there fear was the "each other" part of your sentence.
@DAnneMarc
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. How did people cope under 60 years of Soviet rule? How did people live for a generation under the rule of fascists in 1930s Europe? How do the Chinese still cope living under a totalitarian regime? My point is that all a person can do when living under a totalitarian regime is cope. There is nothing else you can do and self-enlightenment, which is what we are engaging in over the internet, cannot replace the grind of everyday life. It helps us cope. It is a consolation. But it seems to me that totalitarian regimes fall under the weight of their own corruption or though an external force.
Now the reasonable reponse is that the US is not quite yet a totalitarian state (a corporate run totalitarian state). I think the evidence overwhelmingly shows that the US is now a totalitarian state. It is DizNazi Land - you just cannot see the gun for all the candy floss.
While there has been some progress in realizing MLK's vision we are far from making it real or lasting. Socially we are changing a little bit at a time but economically our country is as divided now as we were in the mid 1950's. The gap between rich and poor is actually wider now than it was then. Now the few gains are in danger of being lost completely if the few political and legal gains are overturned by the courts and backwards looking state legislatures.
He had a dream...We live in a nightmare.
President Obamney, is a snake tongued house nigger! [Oh my he said the "N" word!!!] Yep if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...It must be a duck. Anyone here know the difference between a House Nigger, a Field Nigger, and a black person???Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't being PC, I mean African American! Here is a clue; A black person acts without prejudice.
In the case of Barrack H. Obamney...He is just another corporate puppet dancing for Wall St. That he is a black corporate puppet just adds insult to injury.
Obamney has absolutly no buisness giving a speach regarding Civil Rights Leader and Anti-War Activist Martin Luther King.
President Obamney is hypocrite...He speaks of peace, justice, transparency, etc...Yet his actions as a leader have opposed those benchmarks.
Talk is cheap Mr Obamney... It's especially cheap when it comes from your lips.
namasté
Now that the Voting Rights Bill has been scrapped? Now that marchers' "New Jim Crow" signs have been destroyed by police? Now that the Trayvon Martin case was horribly misjudged? I don't see how you can even ask the question.