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Took me time to read all the comments, but I really enjoyed the article. It proved to be Very helpful to me and I am sure to all the commenters here! It’s always nice when you can not only be informed, but also entertained! deindeal.ch
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How much does anyone think it would cost the taxpayers to deport nearly 13 million illegal immigrnts?
A whole lot less than keeping them here and bringing in another 10-15 million over the next 10 years.
I really have nothing agaianst these people who just want a better life but unfotunately they can't have a better life without all of the cost being borne by the poor and middle class. I would bet that the real number is somewhere north of 15 million and almost all of them are living barely above subsistence level. How can integrating 15 or so million people, most living below the poverty level, into our society that today wants to cut back on entitlements and safety net programs possibly be invigorating to our economy?
Unlike tax breaks and even wars that eventually can change or end once we do immigration "reform" there is no going back. It's irreversable.
A true liberal and I've been one for over 40 years could never support this bill. We are against jobs being outsourced for cheap labor costs but now we are okay with illegal aliens (sorry but that is the legal term) staying and bringing in more for cheap labor and to lower wages. We are against subsidizing big oil but we're okay with subsidizing agro-business, construction and the hospitality industry. We believe in fairness, punishing criminals (although we didn't with the banksters) yet we will allow people who broke the law to stay here and get what they wanted all along. Let's be honest. This is about votes for the Dems and cheap labor for the Repubs. Nothing more, nothing less. We're being lied to by Schummer and Durbin. No one will pay back taxes, very few will pay fines and no one will go through "extensive" background checks. Penalties on business will be minimal and the whole process will start over again. There is no reason to "round them up" as the proper policies will make them self-deport. Yes, Romney was a turd but he was right on this. As it is many did self-deport from 2009-2011 when they couldn't find jobs. The illegal aliens aren't the villions in this process, it's our worthless politicians on both sides. As a lifelong liberal I'm ashamed of the people in the Democratic Party who call themselves the same.
Sorry Thom. You're hardly ever wrong but you are this time.
Holder is a PUNK !!!!
Great post! I personally think any POTUS doesn't have much power at all anymore at this point. The real question is, if most of us are in jail, who’ll pay for the ceo of CCA’s grotesquely huge compensation?
Well said, Thom... Just because it may be legal does NOT make it constitutional. In the words of Justice Marshall, " A law repugnant to the constitution is void"...or at least it is until you dumb down society enough to get away with it, apparently. I maintain that our federal public servants, who swore an oath to uphold the constitution are potentially committing treason when passing laws that are blatantly unconstitutional and specifically designed to subvert the constitution and our civil liberties. They have an obligation to speak out against such abuses. This may sound strong, but I think that what is going on with the revolving doors between D.C & private for-profit spy, prison, war/security & financial industries is nothing short of "legalized" extortion. These industries, especially the banks, are using the framework of our government to suck all of our tax dollars out of our commons & infrastructure and into their pockets and saying "pay up (taxes) or else". I have no affiliation what-so-ever with wartaxboycott.org, but I'm beginning to think it may be one of the only acts of civil disobedience many of us have left that could possibly make a difference. If they not only deprive our schools of needed tax dollars, but go after them to close them, if they will not only let our infrastructure crumble, but also refuse to spend our taxes on even the inspections needed to keep people from being hurt/killed in bridge collapses, if they refuse to provide enough tax dollars to the OSHA sufficient to prevent an entire town from being leveled by a fertilizer plant explosion, if they spend trillions on unnecessary wars paying private military twice as much as public military...need I say more? If I had a job, my federal taxes would go to a non-profit social/environmental justice organization.
How much does anyone think it would cost the taxpayers to deport nearly 13 million illegal immigrnts? We've got preppers screaming that the government is going to send in the troops to round up everyone and take our guns, right now... Just what kind of damage does anyone think would be done to America if the govermnent sends enough troops into every town to root-out anyone who doesn't have papers? Do you really think those who already mistrust the government would wait to shoot just to see who the troops are cming to take away?!
Stop and think about that...
To the preppers, and anyone who thinks President Obama isn't a legally born American President, or to anyone else who is simply swayed by the hysterical rantings of the few who don't believe paying taxes is legal, then what will we have? I'll tell you; another CIVIL WAR. Does anyone in this forum really think a Civil War will help any one of us? It only takes a few - righteous or insane - to bring this country down to a point where another world power - China OR Russia - can make a deal with one side or the other to lend a hand, and then march in and take over all of us. We may not have a perfect Union, but we all know that perfection is something we always strive for, but never can attain.
Those who are here illegally are already working for peanuts with no raises or benefits. But the Dreamers, with their dual language skills and aspirations - and the ones who have chosen to fight for this country even though they're undocumented - should come first on the list... If you'd rather ship out the indocumented, and allow the State Department to bring in people who feel NO loyalty to America, and allow large corporations to bring in foreignors from Asian countries to fill jobs the Dreamers and other Americans really CAN fill, go ahead and make your own future misery.
In the 80's I applied for a US work visa for I oilfield job I Was offered in Texas and was turned down because a American could do that job. Why did things change, that seemed logical to me. Everyone should have to do What I did, follow the rules of your law and if you don't you should be deported. Why even a discussion?
Snowden did not commit treason, nor is he a traitor........ we have a Fourth Amendment for a reason, it's job is to protect civil liberties.
John Boehner is the dictionary definition of a traitor, he puts Americans at severe economic risk by continuously releasing false statements to the corp. media, statements made for the sole purpose of obstructing our democratic process for the benefit of billionaires......we pay him for this!
Traitor: one who is false to an obligation or duty.
One more thing that we must demand our government not privatize, along with the military, Social Security, roads, currency, elections, and education.
Keeping immigrants "illegal" allows companies to hire these people at the lowest possible wages and with no benefits. They hire them anyway. The workers can't complain because they are illegal people -- undocumented -- and can't risk speaking up or trying to get higher wages and benefits.
Another corporate plot.
Apparently these members of Congress think the people - the "dreamers" - upon whom we have spent taxpayer dollars to raise, keep healthy, and educate, aren't nearly as deserving as are the refugees of the Syrian War whom are being considered for Asylum, as we write. It makes far more sense to me (but who am I? Ah... just a lowly taxpayer who contributes to all their salaries.) for us to give the Dreamers and their families, along with the undocumented military people and their families, AMNESTY and a path to real Citizenship, than it does to let the State Department offer Asylum to a lot of people who fled Syria... people who, after coming here, will eventually have children who grow up to become Jihadists and try to kill Americans because we didn't intervene and help the rebels win, in the first place. Perhaps our poison-pill GOPs should reconsider their choices of people to allow into America. These Dreamers and military undocumented people are on OUR side, and they speak our language, have a value system in tune with America, and have no ties to Allah. They WANT to stay here, whereas the Syrian refugees would rather go home to their own country than be shuttled thousands of miles away to a hostile America who will never trust them, after the Boston bombings. Is Congress listening? Nah, didn't think so.
SHFabian ~ I think the "powers that be" have no concern over who is being replaced by cheap labor any more than they care about the source of this cheap labor. Their goal is simply to increase the labor pool which decreases the cost of labor. They don't care at all about the hardships encountered on the families of the laborers. All they care about is the bottom line and potential to increase profits. That is what we are up against an industrial machine devoid of conscious.
We need to get corporations OUT of the governement!
No NSA, no privately owned Federal reserve, no corporations spying on us for the government, NO private for profit prisons or health insurance, no private military contractors fighting in our illegal wars, corporations are not "people", get corporate money out of government, no corporate controlled "voting" system or vote "counting" system and as a last act, abolish this government and start over with a parlamentery system so we can have more than just two corporate controlled parties.
If that's not an option, let the states seceed from this corrupt union.
That's sounds reasonable. But then consider how ths generation has suppported mandatory, super-cheap workfare replacement labor (enabling US corporations to enjoy high profits while the rest of the country is sinking). Who do they think is being replaced by cheap labor?
It has been said that sunlight is the best disinfectant.
One thing puzzles me: This generaton has stood against those pushed into poverty, and for immgrants. How will they stand with immigrants pushed into poverty? We're stuck wth reality -- not everyone can work, and there aren't jobs for all who need one. So, what should we do about those who fail to secure jobs? I know that middle classers like to say that immigrants "do the jobs that Americans refuse to take." Do they know that things have changed over the past 30 years, and a growing chunk of the population has no choice in the matter?
Lord help me. I actually disagree with Thom Hartmann and agree with Senator Rand Paul. Is this a sign of the Apocalypse?
In short, this is not the time to discuss any form of Immigration Reform; except perhaps higher security. There is a sequence that must be followed to solve any complex problem. You don't change a light bulb if electricity goes out, you reset the circuit breaker or replace the fuse first. If the supply is good then you address the state of the bulb.
Immigration reform is a light bulb to our nation, not an energy source. Before addressing Immigration we have to resolve the critical issues related to our job crisis. Free trade has to take precedent over any legislation increasing labor supply in this country. Any attempt to ease Immigration and increase the labor supply without increasing jobs in a direct assault on the working class--citizen and non-citizen alike.
Sorry Thom, with all due respect--and I have much of that for you--I can't believe that someone as well informed as you and as conscientious as you would argue in the favor of this issue. It is ironic that such an argument would come from the source of a televised program called, "The Big Picture."
The Patriot Act is a nice sounding name for one of the most unconstitutional laws passed since the Sedition Act of 1918. Fortunately, the folly of that mistake was realized and corrected by 1921. It is amazing that this blatantly illegal modern mistake has been allowed to exist over a decade--especially under the Administration of a so-called Constitutional Scholar.
President Obama should give back his Peace prize as well as his degree in Constitutional Law. It may be true that President Obama may be powerless to repeal the Patriot Act alone; but, he had the power to veto it when it came up for renewal and extended it instead.
The Patriot Act is a disgrace to our nation and the biggest threat to our national security in my lifetime. It undermines everything positive this country ever stood for and destroys our credibility and respect as a nation around the world.
As President Kennedy once said, "There is little to be gained by insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it."
One small step for the middle class is one giant step for the billionaires. The basic calculus was always designed that way. A high five to that billionaire to admit the middle class is responsible for his success. In America’s present social economic view that billionaire will likely be an attractive person to work for, whereas the unemployment in Republican Conservative circles (Wal-Mart types) are going to diminish.
Yes, many Republicans will begin to realize that the label of Conservative or liberal will not be driving the forces of politics. It will be just the middle class and the poor. Yes the Limbaugh days of hate radio or what Limbaugh calls “drive by media” are diminishing. The whole of the middle class and the poor are now privy to how this political jabberwocky of nonsense political talking and cable news are trying to direct society but have failed.
These Republican current right wing extremist failed America in the worst way. By deception to profiteer in war, and take advantage by torture, from my view committed a high crime.
Ladies and Gentleman of America please think hard in that squeezing data to ferret out terrorist is a lot more moral than squeezing someone’s body part in torture to get war information.
That simple design in how to make war is difficult in this new technological based society, however, can be considered brilliant in some respects by avoiding and changing histories historical approach to torturing using the human body to make deals.
Besides the industry that moves the data processing can be carefully monitored with safe guards in the best transparency way. Especially with the use of whistleblower laws anyone can actually help find a cover up. The really interesting point is the industry, that part of the telecommunications or educational system which is already loaded with tax grants itself can be very taxable to finance the war. From my view a marvelous combination which would likely make the Bush/Cheney/ Bin Laden oil baron era reveled as obvious treason. The very reason current Republicans shout scandal for anything, as they are the swindler.
Foreign nationals are prohibited from making any contributions or expenditures in connection with any election..
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Your post was very nicely written. I’ll be back in the future for sure! Pretty good post. I just stumbled upon your blog and wanted to say that I have really enjoyed reading your blog posts. Any way I’ll be subscribing to your feed and I hope you post again soon. wholesale magic
For a fact there is nothing new here, the same was going on in '75. Although back then the phone records were delivered by courier instead of over IP. Laws were passed (original FISA) and post facto warrants were born and ALWAYS approved.
There are a couple of crucial points to make.
1) The Fourth Amendment's standard of "probable cause supported by oath or affirmation" was streamlined to "reasonable suspicion" by Bush and now the standard appears to be "we must have everything because we can win any game of Seven Degrees of Kevin Bacon (potential eco-terrorist)" - Allow this to apply to emails, cloud storage and phone records and eventually books, businesses, kids and guns will follow. The right wing nuts smell this but can't quite state it clearly. Their precious 2d Amendment rights will get swallowed in a trice once the 4th is gutted. Which it has been.
2) Anyone else notice that it's private corporate contractors carrying out this policy? The NSA couldn't possibly hire enough people to handle their rapid expansion so now we have the delicious irony that the 'most transparent admin ever' pretends to be progressive and lets itself be called socialist even though it has secretly granted corporations the power to harvest, collect and sift all manner of information about ALL the people (including their emails) while vigorously prosecuting (in the media and the courts) anyone who dares expose a corporation's emails to the public. Corporate email privacy is defended by the gov't while the gov't pays corporations millions in no-bid secret contracts to gather and analyze the emails of human people. Ummm ... there is much, much more that could be said about the reamifications of the privatization of the security apparatus but simply put, fascism is as fascism does.
If the American people deserve their Constitution and their former freedoms there will be a lot of turnover in Congress next year - after all Congress has been briefed on PRISM, nu? Otherwise, ho hum, business as usual - until we get another 'true believer' as President - then as Snowden says, it will be time for "turnkey tyranny". No help from the courts (already been rubber stamped) - damning evidence is secret (no defense possible) - guilt by indirect association (can reach anywhere)... I predict they will get efficient and just contract out the sham trials to a court where the judge is a robo-signer paid by an unnamed contractor. Or maybe they will get lazy and just skip all that legal mumbo-jumbo - if the gov't says you're a threat then you're a threat and threats will be met with lethal force. Oh wait... they are already doing every bit of this except for the privatized courts, ain't they?
Yeah, turnover in Congress or it's all over soon ... Remember the old saw "I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya"? Never was funny except in rare cases of irony or sarcasm. Pre 911 that became old, but it elegantly describes secret gov't programs defended by willing private death squads. Neoliberalism is coming home to roost as fascism with a friendly face. Lose the kindly front man and then ...