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DAnneMarc, You're the most sensible anti gunner that I've come across. Kudos to you. Your reasoning, from where I stand, is perfect. Most people in the world will agree with you. I remember when I was a kid in the service. This Marine master sergeant was trying to teach us how to use a .45. He was standing 10 feet away and told us that not one of us could hit him at that range. He moved away and pulled targets to the point where he was standing (why take chances?). Not one of us even hit the target, which was bigger than he was, and we were young men and most had fired a rifle, but hand guns are different. Look at the Boston and Watertown police. They fired about 100 round and didn't kill anybody, the kid ran over his brother with an SUV, that did him in. The same thing goes on all over the country. Here in California, the police fired about 70 rounds at two innocent women in a truck. No damage done, except to their egos, and LA had to pay $40,000 for the truck and another $2,400,000 for mental damages. Giving guns to anyone is very expensive. England had the right idea, don't give the Bobbies guns. It doesn't help and it creates alot of hurt.
The problem you and I have is that no matter how rational our argument may be, the 2nd Amendment freaks won't hear a word we say. Their minds are made up and nothing but death will change them. To us they sound just this side of insane and they feel the same way about us. There is no argument that will satisfy them, as I haven't heard an argument from them that would satisfy me. That's what humans are all about. It's a wonder that we've survived this long. We are certainly doing our best to make the race extinct.
In the mean time hang by your thumbs. Oh, it's so good when they cut you down.
Another interesting website to do a search on "WTC" is at:
http://www.cryptome.org/cryptome-search.html
Here's an interesting thing I came across concerning more recent than what happened in 2001. It refers to homegrown terrorism by extremist groups. After you go to this site, do a search on thermite or uranium, on that page, and it will take you down to a 2008 incident. (or go down to page 11 of the 15 page report)
If it had not been for the wife offing her white supremacist husband (for years of abuse) we would have been seeing a dirty bomb incident back in 2008. Of course thermite is not the same thing as nano-thermite but that and the uranium would have been pretty messy.
http://cryptome.org/dc-sec-08-0116.pdf
They flew airliners into and out of airports in Afghanistan and in Pakistan...so why didn't the 911 terrorists (patsies) train on flying airplanes, even airliners, in those countries? Why train in flight schools in the United States...some right next to military bases? These "terrorists" could barely fly a small aircraft let alone an airliner. Whether or not they were interested in only flying airliners and not landing them all looks very much like this is part of the attention grabbing propaganda to make sure people believe that these were the guys who really did hijack and guide those planes to their targets. It also fits in with all of the other very visible spectacles these guys were making of themselves prior to 911. The whole thing was meant to bring attention to them...and in fact...they got attention from some FBI agents that were not in on the subterfuge of their higher ups. That's why they sent memos warning their bosses about these suspected terrorists...but the bosses ignored the memos. Now why is that?
If you go to the History Commons web site and type in the search box "wtc" you will get a lot of old news reports on the wtc going way back before the 1983 bombings about the very suspicious nature and actions of the FBI and other government agencies even way back then.
You'll get stories on how the CIA and Al Qaida were working together..and how our government back then let known terrorists freely come and go to and from our country.
Our government likes to give the impression that it isn't behind these terrorist attacks but that, perhaps, it is merely oversight...bungling...inability of agencies to communicate and cooperate with one another. That is all pure bunk...lies! Pure propaganda that they expect the people to believe rather than that they are, and have been, manipulating what people think and believe. They have engineered fear so that they can steer people into losing all their freedoms ...losing all their ability to think independently from the propaganda the government feeds us.
To enslave the people they have to enslave their minds...and it looks like they have done a pretty good job on those who do not question the glaringly obvious problems of the official conspiracy theories.
"Terrorists" that could barely fly a small aircraft (according to their flight instructors)..managed to not only steer, operate all the controls necessary, and guide the large airliner to hit their targets at those speeds? Come on...who is jiving whom, here? Those airliners were electronically hijacked and guided electronically to their targets. And there is just no way someone who just trained on small aircraft is going to do a tight descending spiral to hit the Pentagon like that. Experienced airliner pilots, with many years experience, have said that even they would not have been able to do such a thing.
Ken Ware ~ You are suggesting I am as paranoid as Palindromedary. No I'm not. I'm also not as informed as Palindromedary. However, I do posses an abundance of common sense. I've studied that paper he submitted and I've been convinced that explosives were used in the WTC disaster. That's it! The facts stop at that! When I saw the Zapruder film I became convinced The President was hit from the right front side of the vehicle. When I heard the Warren Commission's theory about the "magic bullet" I became convinced that they were taking "magic mushrooms" or were completely full of (s)grits and lying they're collective ass off. The only other explanation is that they were feeble minded and incompetent beyond belief. A bullet pausing in mid air and changing direction? Give me a break!
It's most unfortunate indeed that you joke about your own conspiracy theory because it sounded quite feasible. Of course, to pull this deed off with the least amount of risk those involved had to be limited as much as possible. For instance, you could get a crew of maintenance workers to install the explosives for you without their knowledge quite simply. Provide them with the explosive paint and tell them to paint the support beams. Buildings like those needs constant maintenance anyway. They would coat the entire support structure without once suspecting that they are installing explosives. Anyone working on the inside of the paint supplier, the work crew, the building management, FBI, CIA, or even the night shift guard or janitor could have done it. This makes perfect sense to me because far too much of that explosive was used. How else did ample samples of it turn up all over Manhattan?
I doubt a finger can be pointed at any Federal agency, any branch of the Military, or any private group. That's too many people; and, only a few number of people are capable of a crime of this magnitude. There is also a lack of evidence to make any such connections. It would take only a handful of people to pull it off as well. What is needed here is an official transparent investigation. First, this professional paper needs to be scrutinized under a microscope publicly. If it stand up to that then it should then be used as a springing board for an investigation as to whom participated in this event. It should be scrutinized by a broad and expansive panel of experts in the field from all over the world. A panel of US Government appointed experts will not suffice. Without that, this matter will never be resolved and our Government will continue to be distrusted and despised. It's Authority will be diminished far beyond its ability to function effectively.
By the way, have you yet addressed Operation Northwood? You know if you start typing "Operation" in your browser seach engine "Northwood" pops up first like a Jack in the Box. What's your take on that little Gem of history?
I find it just a little disturbing, but not unexpected, that I had a very difficult time finding the same pre 911 papers on nano thermite that I had read many years ago. If I clicked on footnotes on post 911 papers on nano thermite I would find that those references to pre 911 papers were no longer available. I am getting the same kind of responses I get when I search for references to people who have committed crimes that get sensationalized in the news...like Dorner...like any of the guys who have shot up lots of people in theaters and in schools. These people have all posted their ideas on blogs, or had web sites of their own, as reported by our news propagandists but you can never find those web sites or references. The authorities remove them...or try to remove them..sometimes they don't get them all.
In the case of nano thermite....I have found a pre 911 paper on it and have saved a copy. I know the names of the predominant scientists at Livermore National Labs and there is something very fishy about the Naval EOD (Explosives Ordinance Department) in Indian Head, Maryland...something about shutting down...destroying records...I will have to get back into checking that out. No time right now.
As long as we use money as a medium of exchange, we will always have poverty. It's the basic economic principle of supply and demand. There must be a constant and increasing demand for money; otherwise it's valueless. Those who most need money must continually labor for it simply to survive. The more people need it, the more willing they are to do abominable things to get it. Wealthy and politically powerful people control the money supply, restricting global trade for profits. Used for world domination and the spread of terrorism, those who control it wage wars and pass trade agreements impoverishing the many to benefit the few. We don't have to barter individual goods and products. By voluntarily using our skills and abilities to benefit humanity by structuring service, social and industrial unions to produce, develop and distribute the world's resources we can abolish the overwhelming social ills caused by money: poverty, homelessness, global environmental destruction, waste, illiteracy, war, injustice, crime, slavery, governmental and corporate corruption and fraud, overpopulation and ill health around the world. Only by abolishing money can international cooperation secure genuine world peace, aided by the use of Esperanto, the international language of peace.
Labor unions would be the primary centers coordinating administrative duties and information about availability of goods and services locally and globally, nationally and internationally. They would manage local, state or large cities for primary services such as food, water, shelter/construction, sanitation, education, healthcare, recycling, clothing, power/energy, the environment, labor and for other fields of endeavor, such as entertainment, fire and police protection, space development and transportation. Others could be formed as workers’ needs are determined during the transition away from money.
Government would be part of the Education union and would be responsible for elections of union leaders, preventing the use of force or fraud and for citizen advocacy. Courts would cascade down from the World Court in Den Hague at the Palais du Droits de l’Homme, and any other administrative duties, such as war prevention, would be the responsibility of a restructured, much enhanced United Nations. And as far as NAFTA is concerned, it's the reason for the explosion of drug lords and crime in Mexico.
DeAnne - I believe the Warren commission actually believed what they wrote. I doubt they were trying to hide anything, they were just duped into this theory, and very much the way you and Pain have been duped into believing this ridiculous conspiracy theory! Looked out, the government is probably listening in on this difference of opinion we are having. Wouldn't want to give them an excuse to come and lock us away for voicing our thoughts! Ha! After all, who knows what conspiracy they are up to today, especially on this left wing blog site!
Palin - There is one theory that has occurred to me and it is somewhat disturbing. What if the C.I.A. and the Military Generals worked together to make sure we went to war? The C.I.A. could have known the terrorists had begun a plot to train their people in the basics of flying large aircraft. It was shown that O.B.L. had financed some very intelligent terrorist agents to be trained in flying large aircraft at flight schools. They had been trained at several flight schools around the nation. There were nineteen terrorists that took over the four aircraft involved in the attack. Their primary concern was to learn how to fly the large commercial jets, not land them. As we know only three reached their targets as planned by the terrorists. The Military had access to the Nano- thermite devices that could have been used to help bring down the Towers on 9-11 and they could have given the devices to the C.I.A. to use during the time the aircraft hit their targets. The Nano-thermite devices could have been placed in critical areas beforehand and used at the time of impact by the airliners, since the C.I.A. could have had knowledge of when the attacks were going take place and what the targets would be. It would be easy logistically to pull off with only a handful of military and C.I.A. agents involved. The civilian government would not have been aware of what was going on and therefore it would be relatively easy to accomplish the task under the nose of the civilian government without throwing up any red flags. And it could have involved only those on the top with a few rouge field agents to carry out the planting of the devices beforehand. All they had to do was wait for the event to happen and set off the super-hot thermite devices. No leaks and no logistic problems for those involved. This could account for the particles in the dust and the ability to hide their involvement from the civilians who run the government. Now I am starting to sound paranoid. With no involvement from the White House or Congress and the real perpetrators so high on the food chain they would never be questioned. Funding for the military machine and the C.I.A. would see unlimited financing from the President and the Congress. Easy logistics, access to the Nano technology at Livermore and other military labs and no questions asked by the civilian government. Since Nano-thermite technology is relatively new, they would not fear anyone finding out what was used in the destruction of the main support beams. Take the civilian government out of the picture and with very little effort you could keep the agents from revealing any info (i.e. whistle blowing) because they could be indicted or assassinated themselves by other agents in the Military or C.I.A., and you have the perfect plan to pull off the biggest military coup against civilians in our history. Now I am getting a little nervous. The Military machine and the C.I.A. could have felt they were in absolutely no danger of being found out. Change it from a governmental plot to a plot by the Military Generals and those rouge C.I.A. agents with some real power and you have the perfect formula for a conspiracy to get us into a needless war and increased spending for the Military and our super-secret spy agency. I would expect the funding for the C.I.A. may have been reduced with the ending of the U.S.S.R. and the fall of Communism. Which was one of the main reasons for big budgets for the Military and the C.I.A.? Just switch the civilian government to the Military and the C.I.A. and it is a very plausible scenario. A scenario like this still sounds like a paranoid theory in some spy novel. I still do not believe this is what happened on 9-11, but it helps to explain why the Nano-thermite particles were in the dust, if there actually were particles from some thermite devise. Maybe I need therapy if I start believing what I just wrote! K.W. P.S. This could be why the info from the F.B.I. and a C.I.A. agent was ignored by the two agencies and the White House...I hope you realize I am just using this as a joke in reference to your conspiracy theory. DeAnne - read my answer to you on the next web page.
Palin & DeAnne - Again you supply your opinion with no way of verifying anything more than this one paper. Palin you supply quotes with no possible means to authenticate who actually made these supposed statements. And again these quotes are nothing more than opinions, not scientific data. It is great you agree with each other, but you have shown me nothing except more quotes and you own opinions. As a commercial once said, “where’s the meat"? Nothing has changed here, you are both are just suggesting your beliefs are more valid then mine. You are emotionally reasoning the situation, and all I am asking for is verifiable scientific info! You two bark a lot, but you have no bite. Just your emotionally charged statements because with the exception of this one paper you cannot show any further empirical information. lt is only your opinion when you state how can I believe N.I.S.T. because the big bad government lies to us. How can you two believe in some conspiracy based on the limited and illogical information provided by a conspiracy website like 9-11research.com? Your comments are nothing more than emotionally charged opinions and the quotes by specific individuals without any information of where they can be verified is very sloppy work. I really expected more from you two, but I guess believing someone who believes this conspiracy theory is illogical on my part. Sorry guys, no cigars for the information you have provided to try and legitimize your opinionated claims. Do you really believe I would fall for the crap you two have posted on this site? Please give me more credit than that, after all you provided nothing more than your opinions. And Deanne, go ahead and throw your arms up and pray this individual that has broken into your home won't eliminate the people who could be eye witnesses to his crime. Most criminals have two strikes against them in the judicial system and a third strike sends them to prison for life. You want me to buy roses; you are the most feminine male I have ever run across! But I am sure that would be a compliment in your mind. K.W. Got up to use the restroom and noticed your comments and could not resist setting you two straight on this matter and your silly comments. Please excuse my sentence structure or grammar I am half asleep at this time in the morning.
Ken Ware ~ Your dismissal of this paper published in the scientific journal in question is quite disturbing. This evidence was submitted with a legal affidavit sworn by the witnesses who submitted it. Every test was meticulously described and documented and published in a peer reviewed paper over 4 years ago. It is both legally and scientifically sound to hold up in any court. It is you who are charged with the task of finding a peer counter study that adequately debunks the findings of this study. After 4 years of circulation, if that study isn't yet published it won't be. In this case, it is you who are grasping straws and far out conspiracy theories to prove what YOU want to believe.
Remember, this paper does not incriminate the Government in any direct way. All the evidence says is that SOMEONE or SOME GROUP used Super Thermite to conduct a controlled demolition of the WTC at the same time it was hit by aircraft. The people who used the explosives probably had advanced knowledge of the attack. Whoever did it can be considered accessories in mass murder. It does not place blame for the explosives on anyone. The only thing implied by this investigation is that a further investigation as to whom placed the explosives is warranted. Please stop trying to attack sound scientific facts to support your completely unsupported faith in our Government's leaders. When you do it is YOU who come off as sounding crazy. Especially when you fully admit that the Warren Commission was a fairytale. Why should NIST be considered trustworthy when the Warren Commission was as scientific as "My Pet Goat?"
and skipping down to a summation:
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but...you really need to read the whole thing...I can't quote it all here...but what it amounts to is how ridiculous NIST's hypothesis is. These people are scientists..critical thinkers? They are obviously Ken's kind of people.
http://911review.com/coverup/nist.html
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http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a100605nistrefuses
Ken Ware ~ Concerning guns in my home. I feel safer without them. I have a huge temper and would probably be in jail a long time ago if I had a gun--provided I didn't shoot myself first. (I also have a history of suicidal tendencies. Another reason I don't worry about someone else shooting me before I do it myself.)
I also feel safer unarmed because I know if an intruder in my home finds me holding a gun he has no choice but to assume I intend to use it and try to kill me. After doing so, to avoid any witnesses incriminating him in court, he has no choice but to kill everyone in the house. Unless I'm very good with a gun, very lucky, surprise him before he surprises me, and hit him with a sufficiently disabling shot the first time I risk the lives of everyone in the house by resorting to a gun. I'd rather gamble that raising my hands and surrendering anything in the house he may want will be sufficient. If not, what the hell, at least I didn't have to shoot myself.
Where should you send the flowers? Just buy yourself a dozen red roses, put them on your table, and think about me when you look at them.
Ken Ware ~ I have to side with Palindromedary as far as the explosives being used to bring down the buildings. I'm satisfied with that paper enough to draw that conclusion. However, other than circumstantial evidence that President Bush and his administration went too far out of their way to avoid the intelligence reports, I really must admit that you have a good case in defending his involvement with the controlled demolition side of this huge crime. Remember, he spent his first year in office on vacation everywhere. He even went home to pick weeds at his ranch. I don't even pick my own weeds in my own house. I pay the neighbor kid to do it. You would think the Bush family could afford a landscaper or two.
Only the WTC owner, or someone with access to the WTC would be the chief suspects in this crime for now; at least until better evidence is found linking members of the Government, or. until Palindomedary shares that evidence with us. (I must say he has been on fire with great info this week. I wouldn't be surprised to hear him drop another bomb shell.)
Yes, a pun was intended. Laughter is good for the soul, Ken. Ha! Lighten up! Besides this discussion is becoming a little bit too heated!
Yes, sorry, yet another pun! There I go again. I hope I'm not bringing the house down...
Oh what's the use?
Palin - I would appreciate it if you could give me the source of your information that claims the N.I.S.T. refused to allow any other scientific body to examine the computer model of why the Towers collapsed. Again, all you do is provide the same rhetoric about how there is this conspiracy by the United States Government to hide what actually occurred on 9-11! The point I was making is that it is doubtful the information provided by the 9-11reseach website holds any validity. My comment about a conspiracy fanatic or group planting evidence after the terrorists act, to conspire against the government and bring about some type of change is just as easy to accept, as a theory that the workings of some sinister covert group within the government was responsible for 9-11! And I doubt the people who discovered the thermite had bothered to check to see if the material could have been the result of an earlier event and was mixed into the dust and debris at the time of impact to the structure. And it would be easier to believe that, then the theory your hold on to. As I have stated before, no matter what anyone says you have a habit of changing the parameter of the people involved. Now it is not the Bush Administration because he is a bumbling fool, so now it is some other entity within the government that had the ability, power and logistics to put this all together and enough power or clout so that anyone involved is afraid to come forward! Ha! When I first read your comments concerning the conspiracy that you claim happened it was remote controlled aircraft and the terrorist were duped into playing their part in the whole scenario, my thought was, are you for real, honestly YOUR story combined with the website where you obviously get all your information sounds crazier every time you repeat it. And as I stated before, you just simply dismiss anyone or any facts that do not corroborate your beliefs. Who is this mystery woman and she was saving dust ten minutes after the fall of the second tower, while everyone else including the first responders were scattering and running as far away from the poison dust and debris that was filling the air, just sounds silly a best. To state the real plotters used the President and other high ranking officials without their knowing anything was going on, is ludicrous my friend. I have checked all the websites you stated would prove your ranting’s and they proved to be, without a doubt, worthless. And of course anyone who disagrees with you also has been duped into believing it was the terrorist! I have tried very hard to see your side of the argument and I end up reading material that is primarily nothing more than conspiracy theorist hype from the sources you have given as your source of information. I even went so far as to Google the information you presented and I end up at the same websites as a source of information on this subject (9-11reseacrh.com). I am sorry, but as long as you have to use these specific websites for your source of scientific information, I have to laugh in your face. You sound desperate when you try to use the execution of known terrorists as examples of how our government has lied to us. I agree the government has a habit of lying to everyone to a certain point, but let’s be real here for a minute and try to think of how stupid this conspiracy theory sounds! I am not going to indulge your fantasies any further and end this conversation, hopefully for the last time! I think we both have a pretty good idea how the other guy thinks in this conversation, especially concerning your paranoia about the government and your theories. As far as drone attacks go on enemies of America, I am all for them. If they keep our brave pilots out of harm’s way while accomplishing a needed goal to keep the terrorist element in check, I say go for it. Terrorists like those you have stated in your earlier comment will continue their so called holy war against the West no matter what we do or do not do at any given time. Do you not understand the radical Muslims believe this is a war to the death for them or us? And they will continue to be a constant threat to our way of life until they are all destroyed or put out of business by the Western Powers. My personal opinion is that we must continue this war to eradicate every radical Muslim that feels they are a part of a religious jihad against US! You can continue to make your remarks about me and I will continue to state I sincerely believe you show symptoms of paranoia as long as you accept these idiotic conspiracy theories from websites like 9-11research.com and wtc7.com, who choose which part of the truth they will exploit for their own gain in their tilted minds. Sorry pal, you sound ridiculous. I must have missed something as far as a list of professionals like doctors and the alike that believe the conspiracy. It shows no empirical evidence to support their claims. You need to understand you cannot just pick out parts of information that supports your claims and dismiss the rest. Give good hard scientific and empirical facts and you might, I say might loosely, have a rational point to comment on. K.W.
chuckle8: yes, I agree!
Our government's targeted assassination of Anwar Al-Awlaki and his 16 year old son, along with another child, that were all American citizens is very indicative of how our government can manipulate the public into believing and accepting the government's position.
None of us are really very safe under such a condition. The government claims that there is a difference between someone who has radical views and someone who is an imminent threat to the lives of other people. They want us to believe that they don't target people with radical views (like many Americans who express their views on the internet)...they only assassinate those who are imminent threats..those who are operational. But, according to a recent Supreme Court statement the only time the government is authorized to assassinate anyone is if they are proven to be part of Al Qaida. The government often stretches their story and doesn't often have real evidence that the people they have assassinated are Al Qaida. In fact, I just read some news reports that of the 400 plus people they have assassinated with their drones...most were not Al Qaida at all but, perhaps, only dissidents...people that are ticked off at our government for murdering their families and occupying their lands. In fact many were innocent civilians...women and children.
It is notable how Al-Awlaki went, in our government's propaganda, from being a radical propadandist to an Al-Qaida terrorist actively plotting to take American lives.
His son (AbdulRahman) and a teenage cousin, they claim, were merely another case of collateral damage...a mistake. After our government zapped Al-Awlaki with their drones (after many tries) they later zapped the kids at a barbecue.
I believe it was not a mistake and that our government took out the son, knowing full well who they were targeting.
Al-Awlaki, knew the danger (having managed to evade a number of drone attack misses) tried to keep his son away from him at a safe distance (another location) with the mother. The son, obviously idolized his father, even taking an internet blog username of ibn-shahk (means son of the shahk). So, I believe our government zapped the kid so that he didn't try to follow in his father's footsteps. Perhaps the son had expressed his views on blogs that our government didn't like.
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/3/11/is_white_house_changing_its_story
By the way...Jesselyn Radack is being interviewed at this Democracy Now web site.
So, you don't believe the official lone-gunman assassination theory that our government told us was true..that there was no conspiracy...Oswald acted alone..and they even had a Warren Commission enforce the official government story. There's hope for you yet, Ken!
Bush didn't control much of anything...he is pretty much a half-wit that couldn't even lie straight...it was so obvious when he lied. I'm sure he made Cheney very nervous. That's why they wouldn't agree to let Bush testify alone..nor under oath...they needed Cheney to baby sit.
I know it is easy to say Bush did this or Obama did that but really...they are, themselves, useful idiots to take the heat for things that are orchestrated in many levels above them. The President is not the top guy in control. He is not the decider. It is easy to say the government did this or the government did that...but the government that we all think we know is not the real power behind what goes on in the world. We all get into the habit of using these convenient useful idiots as the targets of our frustrations but as there are many levels of culpable or plausible deniability to protect not only the President and Congressmen but also those in the 3 letter agencies and the Pentagon. The real plotters use their useful idiots in government and the military to carry out actions while, themselves, remaining relatively invisible. Yes, there are those infused within the structure that knows what is going on and may even be very much part of what drives the apparatus. Some are, most likely, very much in agreement with what they are tasked to do. All good soldiers to achieve what is expected of them. Some to fall on their swords to protect the higher powers. And I'm sure they all internalize the righteousness of their endeavors. Have you internalized the righteousness of your endeavors, Ken?
I'm sorry, ken, I just have to laugh...are you serious? Where would a conspiracy theorist fanatic get samples of a relatively hard to get substance like nano-thermite...one sample taken 10 minutes after the collapse of the 2nd WTC tower...and, in fact, that one woman who lived there, who saved that sample of dust..got the dust from inside her own home where the collapse of the towers broke her windows and let the dust in. The other samples were saved from various locations just blocks from the buildings and one was taken from further away off of a bridge railing. So, you are trying to tell me you believe that some conspiracy theorist fanatic went around sometime around the time just prior to when these samples were collected and they planted nano-thermite...along with steel microspheres and all of the other trace elements that indicated a thermitic reaction? Pretty far fetched, ken!!! You sound more like a conspiracy theorist fanatic when you try to say things like that!
So what do you call "irrefutable scientific proof" or "substantial scientific evidence"? The opinions by professionals that are on the payroll of a government that has a strong interest in making sure most of the people believe their version of what happened on 911? Because that government (or at least those in power that controlled the government) would make life very miserable for any of their employees who did not tow the line. A government headed up by Bush and the neocons..Dick Cheney, Condoleeza Rice, and all the other criminal war mongers that lied us into invading the Middle East? You prefer that we should believe their official conspiracy theory? The conspiracy theory the government expects everyone to believe...because they told us we should believe it?
They (NIST) didn't even bother to follow their own rules in conducting an official investigation and completely ignored any evidence of explosives. They didn't even bother to scramble the jet fighters until almost an hour after the reported "hijackings" when never before that was there ever a time when jet fighters weren't immediately (within minutes) dispatched even for a small business plane that went off course.
Don't you think it a bit unusual that the government officials...Condolezza Rice and even GWBush, etal, repeatedly mouthed their mantra, after the "attack" that "who could have thought that someone would hijack airliners and crash them into buildings?" when all the while they hid from us the fact that they were actually carrying out a drill, at the time of the actual attack, with the scenario of hijackers crashing airliners into the WTC buildings (among others)?
And why is it that these attacks all seem to happen when they are carrying out drills. What? You think OBL had a mole in the CIA or Pentagon? I think these "drills" are a way that a few in command can make most of the participants in the drill mistake a real attack for a drill clouding their decision making ability. And when the few in command decide to "take it hot" they do...they go live and carry out the real thing. A drill can distract and cause confusion of those in the drill, not knowing of the actual plans of command, from taking measures to prevent an actual attack.
When you carry out such a drill it can give seemingly valid excuses for why you would move attack jets, from Andrews Air Base, near DC, normally assigned to scramble when needed to protect DC and the Pentagon, to another area further south.
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Did you not scrutinize all of the scientific data on that pdf? Did you even read that pdf...or did you just read the html page with brief summary and fail to link to the pdf?
This is a peer review journal which is an open invitation for other scientists to prove them wrong...or prove them right. That's how science works! Where are the peer review responses from other scientists who can prove these professionals wrong? What? Popular Mechanics? lol ...LMAO!
How can anyone, after all that has happened the last 30 or so years give our government the benefit of doubt? They have continually lied to us. Of course it is not all the government... there are many good parts of our government that serve to help and protect us..make life livable. But there are the parts of it that have been infiltrated by cruel and selfish interests that have lied to us, got us into criminal wars of aggression against other countries and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. That's the government you don't want to believe...and that is the government that has lied us into these illegal wars...the same one that reads MY PET GOAT to children when the country is under attack...under attack by conspirators that wants to steal our Social Security. That's the evil government that forced NIST to hastily invent data that would support the real evil-doers' official conspiracy theory.
You know there have been many government employees that have quit in disgust over the whole crooked thing. Many have signed oaths that would be thrown in jail if they spoke out..so many won't speak out. But those who do are harassed, fired, or prosecuted for being a whistleblower. Jesselyn Radack ** was one that worked for the Justice Department under Bush and she gave an answer, concerning John Walker Lindh (The American Taliban) that they didn't want to hear. So they attacker her and drove her out of a career she worked very hard to get.
There were many Germans that hated Hitler, too, and they too knew that they couldn't speak out or they'd also go to the gas chambers. The American Nazis in power haven't yet set up gas chambers, that I know of, but I wouldn't be too surprised if they did.
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As far as my cameras are concerned..they have been very useful...because I have caught several people trying to bust into my cars (one just the night before last), steal my mail, and steal UPS packages. If you think I am being paranoid then...so what!..at least I'm not a vulnerable victim. I have taken a pro-active step in self-protection. You can understand that can't you, ken? After all you don't think you are being paranoid because you have guns do you? You have said so yourself that you believe having your own guns is a good thing because it could help protect you or your family against harm one day. I agree. Maybe you should put up some cameras too...just a suggestion. I doesn't hurt to be alerted of an intruder well before they get into your house...not that you can actually shoot them until they do break into your house and actually show intent to harm you or your loved ones. Proving self-defense in this country is getting harder to do.
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http://www.amazon.com/TRAITOR-Whistleblower-American-Foreword-Greenwald/...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE65_9W6IM0
DeAnneMarc - To answer your question earlier in the week or it could have been last week, NO I do not believe Oswald killed President Kennedy. I think he may have been involved in the plot as a patsy, but it was one of three entities and we cannot be sure it was one of them. The F.B.I. (not very likely), the C.I.A. or the Mafia and maybe a fourth remote entity could have been Castro since the Administration supposedly tried to kill him after the Bay of Pigs failure and that was a true political screw-up, on Kennedy's watch. It is a lot easier to believe there were shooters on the grassy knoll and behind the wall that killed Kennedy in a cross fire, then it is to believe the Bush Administration could control all the logistics involved before, during and after the attack on the W.T.C.'s and that it has been covered up by everyone who was involved or has heard about it in Washington!!! If you believe the Conspiracy theory, I would like to talk to about buying some nice ocean front property in Arizona... K.W.
I also do not believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus or the Conspiracy Theory that the Bush Administration was involved in bringing down the W.T.C. buildings! I am more sure of the later then the first two!
Mr. Palin - I have taken the time to research the websites you have listed concerning the conspiracy theory that the twin towers and building 7 were brought down by Nano-thermite devises. All the comments you have made appear to be direct quotes from the 9-11research.com or wtc7.net. These websites are nothing more than conspiracy theory sites that are primarily based on assumptions by the person or persons who run the sites. The whole theory seems to be based upon four samples of dust that were collect from the WTC site on the following dates. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day and a fourth about a week later that contained traces of a microscopic Nano-thermite. Isn't it just as plausible that these samples of dust were planted by a conspiracy theorist fanatic, who was seeking publicityf? And is it not true that the area was so polluted by the tens of thousands of tons of debris, that any dust samples were impossible to be shown in the same manner as any other forensic evidence? Every bit of so called evidence is no more than conjecture or opinions of those trying to prove a conspiracy had taken place by the U.S. Government to destroy the WTC Towers and other buildings in the vicinity. And isn't also true that the paper you reference as being reviewed by scientific peers was no more than three individuals as stated on the Bentham Open website. The film of the Pentagon could also be viewed and a completely different opinion of what took place could be as relevant as the information stated on the conspiracy theory website 9-11 research.com. I have also visited the websites you posted earlier in the week on Hartmann's blog and instead of being irrefutable scientific proof it is just more opinions by professionals of what could have happen in their opinion versus substantial scientific evidence of what actually happened on9-11. I could carry on about the information you have printed or have actually just copied from a website that is solely based on theories versus scientific proof that cannot be dismissed as opinions, just to feed the frenzy of conspiracy theorists like you. Again I have to state that everything you have quoted from the paper on the Bentham Open to the information from the websites 9-11reseach and wtc7.net could have easily been planted in an attempt to place the blame on the government, i.e. the Nano-thermite chips that could have easily been placed there and we only have the word of an anonymous Manhattan resident on the time period of when it was found. And with all the destruction that was going on around him or her, what prompted this person to collect a dust sample? It just doesn't pass the smell test of something fishy about this finding. And as the paper stated the other three dust samples were collected days after the Towers feel. So besides theories of conspiracy from a website whose sole purpose is to come up with conspiracy theories there is no forensic evidence that cannot be disputed by any logical person, near alone the N.I.S.T. whom I have more faith in then undocumented evidence of when the first dust sample was collected or film of the Pentagon that could be interpreted in several different ways! Sorry, but presenting evidence from a conspiracy network and samples that cannot be documented as being collected ten minutes after the second Tower fell and could have been planted seems more logical then the logistics behind a massive cover-up by the powers to be in the Federal Government. Aren'f you the same person who has camera's surrounding his home because he is concerned about other people perpetrating a crime against him, that type of mentality is tainted with paranoia. I could go on for hours debunking your so called evidence, but you would just add it up as just more individuals and professional’s that are part of the conspiracy to hide the conspiracy theory that the whole terrorist attack was all a plot by our government to get us into a war with Iraq and Afghanistan. The Bush Administration had already put together lies they presented to Congress, U.N. and he rest of the World to get us into Iraq and the government already had shown that Bin Laden was using Afghanistan as a training center for terrorists that had already attacked us on previous occasions!
Perhaps it would be worth your while if you saw someone about your ongoing paranoia concerning conspiracies that are happening all around you. If you are over seventy that could also enter into the formula of seeing conspiracies that do not exist!
Cutting the taxes on the rich sure made the socalled deficit problem more severe but it was NOT the cause of the "Great Recesssion". It was 100% caused by the monetary-financial system. This caused total tax revenues to decline and safety net expenses to go up. The entire premise of the deficit is in error that we have to create money by deficit spending and borrowing with a certain % of GDP. Where is it written we have to create money by debt only?? The U.S. is a monetary sovereign nation. It can create money without debt which it has done successfully in the past-3 times. This fiscal argument on the fiscal system does nothing to solve the problem which is monetary.
You had Zarlenga on your show and the answer is also at www.cpe.us.com under the Monetary Reform Section on the right of the home page-We have narrowed down to only 10 pages.
Rogoff and Reinhardt's book did prove that the inflation was greater in the 20th Century under the Central Banks than it was in the 19th Century which is a good argument for complete Monetary Reform
The National Debt is NOT a debt. A debt is something that has to be paid off which we have not done since 1835. It is a National Monetarization account.
Center Progressive Economics
DeAnnemarc - You stated you would use your wit's versus having a weapon in your home in the event an intruder might want to enter your home. Really? You actually think your wits as you call them will be a match for a .357 magnum when it comes to protection. What world are you living in? I realize you are a no violence at any cost type of person, but I think you would be singing another tune if a situation occurred where you needed to protect yourself and family, while the police are in route to your home, and someone in your home was killed due to your lack of ability to defend yourself from an armed intruder. Where should we send flowers in the event someone in your area breaks into your home to do harm?