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Oh you ain't the first - OUTBACK - to comment on my charecter ;) I've always done things a little backwards; sometimes it works for me and sometimes not. With A peoples History...I wanted to travel backwards in time, and with the way Zinn wrote A Peoples History...It worked out really well.
Have you read any of Zinn's other books?
I was fortunate to attend Zinn's last lecture just before he died. He seemed very healthy and full of youthful passion; I was shocked when I heard he had died of a heart attack just a few weeks later.
Currently I am reading Raj Patel's "The Value Of Nothing; How to reshape market society and redefine democracy." Recommended by a close friend who says Patel reveals how we inflate the cost of things we can live without, while assigning absolutly no value to the resources we all need to survive.
A.I.W. - Understood on the gun thing. I'm probably a little defensive, considering this venue - no problem. With regard to the eighty year cycle, you're going to love the parallels between today and the "robber baron" era in Zinn's "A People's History". But my suggestion would be to read it from front to back. (Nachos, you are in serious need of help <g> )
MMmmNACHOS says "In one of my post I mentioned Wendle Potter the former V.P. of Communications for Cigna turned whistleblower...Are you framilar of him?"
Yes I am. I learned of him and saw him speak on Democracy Now, and have tremendous respect for him. Takes such incredible courage to switch allegiances like that. He gave up a buttload of money and a comfortable life, just to do the right thing and stand up for justice, speaking truth to power from a unique position/perspective. I haven't read his book, although I'm certain it's a worthwhile read.
Who couldn't use some inspiration at times such as this?
On another note- from the historical perspective Thom enlightened me to, it seems almost as if human civilization moves up & down like a seesaw. The plutocracy gets the upper hand, then the "common" people gain leverage, than it's the plutocracy again, then the people again.... every eighty years.... And we humans think we're smarter than neanderthals?! At the rate we're going, we'll have bit the dust long before we've made it on this planet half as long. - Aliceinwonderland
Outback, I'm sorry- I never intended to direct my rant about guns at you specifically. You do not come across as macho at all. I've simply grown weary of all this gun talk, and preoccupation with guns. Those particular comments are from a more general context. Not to worry.
Nachos...that's is so, so sad! I am so sorry that you lost your young daughter.
Aliceinwonderland: Thanks for the articles...and these were written back over 3 years ago.
As a devout follower of the one true god, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and his beloved son, Raptor Jesus, I believe that the antipasto is the answer to the anti everything else in this world..the anti Teddy Bear and the anti lucky rabbit's feet.
ALICEINWONDERLAND, I just read you response to a post regarding my daughter Krissy...Thank you for your sincere empathy, and encouragement. Even though it has been ten years since she died the memories are near and dear, and the anger and frustration I have for this Nazi Conservative System still enrages me. Peace will only come when we stop treating life as cheap.
As you know Krissy was 8 years old, and had she received the medical treatment necessary she would have beat her illness, and we would ne celebraiting her 19th birthday.
My wife and I do struggle with the grief of not being able to afford the cost of the treatment she needed, I know it wasn't our fault, but there is nothing worse than not being able to give your child what they need. But more so, like you, we are also angry at those (Insurance Companies, lobbiest, lawyers, crooked Doctors, sue happy people) that have made Health Care beyond reach for the average working class American.
I read both the articles you wrote, excelent writing; very informative.
In one of my post I mentioned Wendle Potter the former V.P. of Communications for Cigna turned whistleblower...Are you framilar of him? He wrote "Deadly Spin; An Insurance Insider Speaks Out On How Corporate PR Is Killing Health Care and Deceiving Americans". If you haven't already read it I strongly encourage you - and everyone - to do so.
I understand you have just purchased Howard Zinn's "A Peoples History of The United States"...Welcome to the Truth!
For me I read it backwards...but I am weird that way! ;) I also recommend Zinn's "Passionate Declarations; Essays On War and Justice". I read both when I was in college. Four years ago my wife bought me his 2006 revised edition. And if you would like to know Howard Zinn on a more personal level watch the biographical documentary; 'You Can't Be Neutral On A Moving Train" It is an excellent indepth look at who Howard was and his Passion for Justice and Humanity, and Education, and Truth.
Enjoy the read(s)!
MMmmNachos
How provocative - NANCYCJ...To say "Of course I support the Constitution", and then in the same breath say; "...but I also support the President." Are you talking about President Obama!?!? You know the one who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2010 while increasing troops in an illegal and unnecessary war, and endorses the increase of drone strikes that kill 10x's more innocent people than the supposed enemy. As well continues to chip away at our second, and fourth ammendment.
Please, if you don't mind, explain what it is about the President you support?
Of course I support the Constitution but I also support the President though I do not like how boxed in he is. Our system is so rigged and flawed by those who hold the power and we all know who they are; the corporate world. They are, unfortunately, leading us down a very dangerous road.
I would love it if you would do a show about how the extreme right wing of the Republican Party is actually creating the anti-christ. I am a spiritually minded person and lead my life with integrity to the best of my ability. I have just started listening to the Thom Hartman show on 91.3 radio out of Bellevue Wa. I agree with just about all I have heard you discuss so far.
I read the New Yorker Magazine and have all my adult life. I quest for knowledge and find strength and wisdom in being an adult in this world. To me an adult is one who takes care of themself and those around them. An adult finds solutions that work for everyone as much as possible.
What I see the right wing doing is creating such a culture of hatred and only looking out for number one. It is exactly the qualities that the anti-christ would have. I actually have not heard the term, "anti-christ" in a long time but back in the 1970's when I was a young woman, it was a term that was used quite often especially by the Christian church. I wonder what the church thinks of this term now. I wonder if they recognize how the Republican Party espouses the qualities of not caring about the poor and those who struggle to make ends meet on a daily level. And now that Ayn Rand is the rage of the billionaire class that controls the Republican Party it is getting even worse. I think it would be a great idea to bring this anti-christ terminology alive again.....maybe those on the right and the left who still have some humanity and integrity and who live their lives as wise adults can break through the veil of blindness or ignorance or uncaring attitudes about this wonderful earth we all live upon and we can somehow begin to set things in balance.
But, rs allen, some of us "have gotten a grip".... factions in our government, our military, and our private sector..all part of a cabal that did plan and execute 9/11. It is the people who refuse to really look into the alternative to the official conspiracy theory that do not have a grip. Some people just don't want to know!
http://www.ae911truth.org/en/component/content/frontpage.html
Watch "9/11: Explosive Evidence – Experts Speak Out" it's free on the internet! What are you afraid of? The truth?
Top 40 reasons to doubt the official conspiracy theory:
http://911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646
Sorry I didn't make myself clear. The "Shock and Awe" attack was so horrible to see, knowing the agony under the light display. I was sickened by our actions. I have watched this country attack since WW2 newsreels. I have donated to Democracy now. Watch MSNBC, Current and link and Got Mother Jones in the 60's....Relax.
Who was your favorite?
Here's another one:
SINK THE BOAT
(Published in the August 2009 issue of The Advocate)
Health insurance is legally sanctioned extortion. The lives of hundreds of thousands hang on decisions soon to be made by Senator Max Baucus (whose own health care, incidentally, happens to come from a public option paid for by us). Yet it is the health insurance industry whose huge campaign contributions helped put Baucus in office. Seems unlikely there’s anyone in Congress with more interests vested in the status quo than this guy. Here he stands, as Big Chief of the Senate Finance Committee, deciding what kind of healthcare system you and I get to have!
While roughly sixty percent of Americans want a tax supported, single-payer system and seventy percent favor at least a public option, Senator Baucus has predictably fought it all, tooth-and-nail. “Off the table!” went the Baucus mantra. Single-payer advocates were silenced; in some cases, even arrested.
Were it not for the life-and-death seriousness of this issue, I might have found comic relief in Baucus’s bumbling attempts at defending the indefensible. Asked at a press conference why he favors mandatory insurance payments over single payer, universal coverage, Senator Baucus responded only with platitudes, stating simply that it’s “not going to get to first base.”
What I found conspicuously lacking was any attempt on his part to explain why. Instead, Baucus fumbled his way through a thicket of barely comprehensible rubbish, comparing this “big” country of ours to an “ocean liner,” a “battleship” or a “PT boat, not a speed boat,” explaining that it “takes time to turn those big, big ships,” that we “can’t just turn ‘em overnight,” ad nauseam. Then came his lame, strident assertion that “We are the United States of America!” The longer Max rambled, the deeper the ideological hole he dug for himself. “Umm, we’re constituted differently than European countries and Canada! We’re, umm, we’re a younger country, umm, we’re a different country, there’s more of an entrepreneurial sense here in America than other countries; ‘go-west-young-man’ and so forth.”
This is how Senator Baucus justifies keeping us in harm’s way. In his realm of reality, someone’s entrepreneurial ambitions are worth subjecting you and me to the threat of financial ruin and early death. Only here in America must we endure endless debates over health care, whether it’s a right or a privilege, and oh dear, how do we pay for it while all around this country people are losing their homes, their savings and their lives. So much controversy and uproar, over something guaranteed with citizenship everywhere else in the developed world!
“We have to come up with our uniquely American result,” Baucus preached. “And a uniquely American result will be a combination of public and private insurance…umm… one in which everyone is covered… umm… just… my judgment is… and every member of Congress agrees with me, I think…” his voice trailed off, mumbling the qualifier that it’s everyone he’s spoken with who agrees. Problem is, that’s not everyone in Congress. And he never bothered asking us, the ones forced to live and die by his decision.
Here’s where His Majesty the Committee Chairman speaks with forked tongue: “This is not the time to push for single payer. Maybe it’ll happen later. But it’s not going to happen in America in my view. I’m not going to waste my time pushing for something that’s not gonna happen.” Had Baucus opted for an honest assertion, it would have sounded more like “It’s not gonna happen while I’m steering the boat.”
What better example than our healthcare crisis can there be to illustrate the inevitable outcome of life under corporate rule? It impacts us all and threatens our very survival.
What shall these parasites hijack from us next; the fire department? Our water system? This is no joke.
Politicians subordinate to the corporate elite, accepting bribes from their lobbyists, pose a greater threat to our wellbeing and quality of life than undocumented workers, drug cartels and terrorists (foreign and domestic) combined. The real Public Enemy #1 comes in suit & tie, disguised as an “elected official,” bought and paid for by a tiny elite minority from the top of the corporate food chain. The very system which is robbing and killing us, and running our country into the ground, exists to uphold a status quo that serves their interests and keeps them in power.
This is why we have Max Baucus and his ilk deciding what kind of healthcare policy the rest of us will be stuck with for the next twenty years, doing their utmost to keep insurance hacks and their bureaucrats between you and your doctor. This translates to a death sentence for countless people whose only “crime” is the misfortune of having been born in the United States of America.
I've decided to share two articles I wrote, back in 2009, the first of which follows here:
DEATH PANELS OF AMERICA
(Published in the July 2009 issue of The Advocate)
Health insurance is extortion with a “uniquely American” twist. Does this sound far fetched? According to Webster’s New World Dictionary, “extortion” is “getting money from someone by violence, threats” or “misuse of authority, sometimes applied to the exaction of too high a price.”
The health insurance “industry” is predatory by design. It provides nothing beneficial to us or to society and its only objective is minimizing care to maximize profits. That’s the whole game. It contributes nothing of value to health care, producing a labyrinth of useless paperwork designed only to block access to care. Our current health care industry enriches its CEOs and its shareholders at our expense, rips up off with impunity and lives off us like a parasite. Those who cannot afford the bloated cost of health care premiums have no option but to pray they don’t get injured or sick, because if they do, they are limited to two choices: financial ruin or death.
Even the insured aren’t immune to such a fate. The deductibles and co-pays can strip a citizen down to nothing in no time. Over the past year, 60% of bankruptcies in this country have been caused solely by medical expenses. Among those casualties 75% were “insured”. No one is safe under our current system. A homeowner with a health insurance policy, a perfect credit score, no mortgage and no debt can still wind up destitute, forced to live on the edge of ruin by our uniquely American system of legally sanctioned extortion.
Health care is not a commodity, a luxury or a privilege. Any politician who tells us otherwise is lying. Health care is a simple matter of survival, recognized the world over as a basic human right. Yet each year, nearly 50,000 of us Americans die from preventable causes, diagnosed and treated too late, if at all. That’s roughly fifteen times the number of deaths from the 9-11 terrorist attacks.
It hasn’t always been this way. In the 1950s and ‘60s while I was growing up, health care was not the issue it is today. My brother and I never went without health care, and it wasn’t such a struggle for our parents to pay the bills.
Even back then our fee-for-service approach was inferior to that of other developed countries where health care was guaranteed as a right of citizenship. Most Americans were able to afford health care because in those days it was still non-profit. All this began to change under President Nixon who laid out the red carpet for insurance “entrepreneurs” to hijack and privatize the entire system. It’s gone steadily downhill ever since.
I’ve spent most of my adult life watching this vital element of our infrastructure morphing into the carnivorous oligarchy we now find ourselves hostage to.
For-profit health insurance and “Big Pharma” are the culprits. They are what now drive the cost of health care beyond reach of most Americans. Additional blame rests squarely on the shoulders of politicians who take bribes from the relentless army of lobbyists for “Big Pharma” and health insurance companies. We need to vote those guys out of office.
Campaign finance reform may not sound very sexy or intriguing, but without it, nothing is going to change. If we want a government that truly represents us and serves our interests, we have to weed money out of politics. Until then, we remain at the mercy of a system that is, quite literally, bankrupting and killing us en masse.
Nachos- When I hear stories like yours I want to scream. Your daughter was sacrificed to a carnivorous, predatory system where only money is sacred and greed calls the tune. You think having insurance guarantees anything?! These soulless hacks are notorious for refusing to pay, regardless of what the doctor orders. Last I heard, 75% of Americans bankrupted by medical bills are insured! The co-pays and deductibles do them in, leaving 'em high and dry. Had your daughter been born in Mexico, El Salvador or Cuba, or anywhere in Europe, or in Australia or Canada (Yes, Kend!), she would still be alive. You and your wife have suffered such a cruel injustice. Please don't blame yourselves, you have suffered enough.
It tears me up to hear what you and so many have been through. There is nothing worse than having to endure a tragedy of this magnitude, knowing full well it is unnecessary and preventable, when money is the only obstacle to saving a child's life. Those of us who haven't been through it can only try to imagine the unimaginable. I have written articles on this subject and wish to share one of these, which I'll send separately.
You sound like a very devoted family man who'd give his left kidney or right arm for his wife or one of his kids. Every child should be so lucky, to have a father like you. Every word you write about Krissy resonates with love. I would say "God bless you" Nachos, but I am not a religious person.
Damn it, I want JUSTICE! Justice for Krissy and for everyone left to die by a medical system that failed them, that has been hijacked by oligarchs. - Aliceinwonderland
Most of the posters here need to get a grip on reality. Seriously.
I've been following this drone thing on this site for three or four days now. And I'll repeat, get a grip guys! I've read everything here from our own flying jumbo jets into tall buildings to detailed plans of murdering people on the streets of apple pie towns of America conspiracies. I've listened to past (and present) issues of our over reach in the world sphere toward selve interest. Ooh, the corporate stucture is taking over the world, ooh the corporation doesn't care about us, ooh the corporation is going to murder us at our desks and in our beds.........gawd. Get a grip.
The us vs them stuggle predates this generation for well over 100 years. You remember Reagan? Congrats. But what do you think the 60's were about? What do think the 30's were about? What do you think the 1890's were about? Etc,etc etc..........You want to stop the marauding behavior and overlord of the corporate stucture breathing down your neck? It's simple, don't allow any more privatisation of the public interest. Which means, YOUR sons and daughters WILL be conscripted into the national service, everyone of them. All will serve, period. No more mercenaries from this country.
Over reach of any kind will end as soon as everyone has skin in the game.
You can't logically convolute that issue with what is solid military law, that is, drone strikes. One can not make an arguement that we (meaning the world) are not at war with an opponent that not only murders us but even their very own. From health workers to young school aged children who dare ask a guestion. It doesn't matter what country one lives in, it doesn't matter what view you espouse for the after life, it's propably going to be wrong. It doesn't matter what your thoughts are about bountries in the political sphere are, and never mind countries. The end will be the same.....you're dead. Because there is only one way from the opposition, this is not a fight about politics, it is not a fight over resources, it is not a fight over influence on the world stage. Make no mistake, it is a fight over the right of people to live their live as they see fit where ever they happen to live.
Make no mistake it is a world war. One crosses to the other side? Be prepared to be shot down on sight.
War is war.
Now Alice, we've gotta have a discussion here sometime on guns VS "macho". The subject comes up often enough on Thom's blogs, usually with a negative slant, that I can never resist the urge to work the subject in, but if you knew me personally you'd know that I'm anything but macho. I think of my (modest) arsenal as the last wall of defense between me and Goliath (even David had a sling). I see the potential for crushing oppression in this country, history amply documents that "absolute power's (which you spoke of earlier) willingness to exercise it on the helpless, and I am just proud enough to want to position myself to go down swinging if it ever came to that. I don't believe that has a thing to do with "macho", just prudent.
On Howard Zinn, from what you said in an earlier post I could have sworn you had the book memorized. Good for you for ordering it! Be prepared for a downer, though, as it'll shake all that previous rote learning to the roots.
I hope you're right about a bright and proactive future. As a child of the 60's I'd love to see that dream rekindled. I'm just a bit jaded these days I'm afraid.
Outback- perhaps both the end and the means. Because depending less on corporations means depending more on ourselves and each other. And the worse things get, the more incentive we will have to find answers that actually work. It will be a process of trial & error as well as a work in progress, and no instant fix.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Occupy movement. Like any such movement, it attracted a certain amount of rifraff. But it has lit some sparks and opened some eyes. Don't let mainstream media tell you what's up with that. There are some truly awesome activists in this generation of young adults who are lucid, articulate, resourceful and driven enough to command respect from anyone paying attention.
All this talk about guns is making me tired. So much of it, the same-old-same-old; just your standard macho bullshit. Sorry guys, but that's what I hear in so much of this gun talk. Enough already. I'm ready for some creative thinking and fresh new ideas.
In the fall of '99 I was with my ma in Australia, visiting a friend of hers who lived in a suburb near Sydney. One night while there, we saw a news report on TV about a school shooting somewhere in the U.S. I'll never forget that image on the TV screen, of a U.S. flag shot full of holes. I remember getting into a sarcastic little rant right then, about living in the Wild Wild West where they "shoot first and ask questions later". Now here we are in 2013, and nothing has changed. Gets kinda old. - Aliceinwonderland
P.S. By the way my friends... today at the local bookstore I ordered a copy of Howard Zinn's classic People's History Of The United States. Finally took the plunge! After all I've heard about that book, I've gotta read it.
Smells like it is already a done deal. Imperialiam is bipartisan. You have to admire Code Pink's activism during the hearings. It says alot for fighting the good fight in spite of just how rotten and fixed things are. Remember Nancy Pelosi taking impeachment "off the table" some six years ago? It might have been a function of her before the fact and during the fact complicity involving torture utilization in the name of "National Security" in private (secret) briefings (meetings) involving the leaderships of the house intelligence committee with dumbya and his henchmen as early as 2002 . Didn't stay so private after it was leaked out years later. Republocrats and Demopublicans bought off by profiteering corporations.
In #21 Bob Hearns Writes: "The terrorists created the new arena and they aren't going away. It's overdue for the development of a new international force. It will be ugly and they will kill innocent people. That is the reality of our way of life."
Our way of life? Isn't that kind of circular? Our way of life (if you're talking about life in the USA) is supported by the most potent terrorist organization ever conceived; the projection of US corporate and military power around the globe.
If you'll recall, the Arab Spring was organized over the internet and spread throughout the Middle East via social media and the internet. Large pubic protests resulted in carnage by the authorities and the situation devolved to what's now going on in Syria; a rag tag rebel force consisting of various factions, begging for arms, battling an entrenched regime. So be sure to support your local anti-gun movement. That'll ensure our safety for certain.
I believe that A.I.W. (#22) is describing an end, not a means. After the wheels come off, and they will, we'll be ratcheted back to an agrarian, bartering society, presuming there's any tillable soil left and anyone left to till it. Not to wax negative or anything, but the Occupy Movement is about as good an example as I can think of as to how ineffectual gatherings of riffraff are in the face of corporate might. And these days it takes tools like the internet and social media to organize such events. Watch for the day when the powers that be find the means to censure what remains of our "free speech" via blogs like this. That will be the end of it.
In entry #21, Bob Hearns has described a need for international leadership. I so agree. Every nation must be represented regardless of size & population, and every nation must have a voice. Leadership should keep changing regularly like clockwork to prevent any one person or organization from gaining too much power, with too much time in which to abuse it. There's gotta be a way, and everything - everything - depends on it. When I say "everything" I mean the future of our species and of the entire planet.
I believe with all my heart that if there was justice in the world and humanity were truly civilized, this "terrorist" problem would not even exist. But at the risk of repeating myself, I'll say it again; we need to be clear on who the real terrorists are: Torturers, drone operators, Blackwater butchers & thugs... terrorism du jour, brought to you by the U.S. Empire's Power Elite! Most if not all the rest is simply retaliation.
I also believe our only hope of getting out of this mess is through means that are resourceful and creative rather than violent. We must break this relentless cycle of Tit For Tat that the emphasis on guns & weaponry only perpetuates. What comes to my mind is the idea of creating a system from within our own ranks, by which goods and services are exchanged that cancels our need for money. Divorcing ourselves from the current monetary system would get us a lot closer to having any control over our destinies and circumstances. The elites would lose their grip on us and be de-throned without any need for bloodshed, and in all likelihood, way more effectively. - Aliceinwonderland
The entire fiasco is a joke. There was an ex General on FOX NEWS this morning and was commenting on the Sequester and how it will effect the Military. We will not be able to send another boat to the Persion Gulf if the Sequester goes through. I thought, SO WHAT! Our entire economy is based on the defense department. President Eisenhower was so absolutely correct and now we are living with the military industrial complex. Thom is right, our economy is going to collapse; sooner than later.
Terrorism went to new levels a couple of decades ago. Terrorists have no nation and, therefore, no boundaries. It's a new arena, one with no boundaries. It isn't possible for one nation to take them on without incurring the wrath of other nations affected. An international group with international leadership is required. In effect, a no-nation group to take on no-nation terrorists. The terrorists created the new arena and they aren't going away. It's overdue for the development of a new international force. It will be ugly and they will kill innocent people. That is the reality of our way of life.
Howard Zinn was once asked in an interview; "As good citizens do we have an obligation to the government to go to war?"
This was his answer; "Our obligation is not to the government; our obligation is to the "principles" that our country is suppose to stand for...The government is an artificial creation...This is what the Declaration of Independence says; Governments are set up by the people to acheive certain ends. The equal right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. When government becomes "destructive" of those ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish the government."
He then added; "Obedience to government is the first sign of a Totalitarian State."
I certainly do subscribe to this, however the Owners of this country have made it damn near impossable to do. It isn't the level of sacrafice that is discouraging...Its the lack of a nonviolent leadership as a collective. Sure the Occupy Movement was for the most part nonviolent, but lacked organization in leadership, and failed to create a declaration. Yes for several months there movement grew in numbers; from a couple hundred in Zucatti (sp?) Park, to a few hundred thousand across the country, but in the end the efforts seemed futal.
Don't get me wrong I am a 99%er, and still fully support the indictment of those companies and Captains of Industry who commited fraud. But...Without establishing and organizing a form of leadership representing the outline of grievences and certain ends the movement was dead before it hit the streets.