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YES!! The disdainful smile! No one I saw on TV commented on it! And you are right. No mind behind that face. All an "act." And William Buckley really WAS disdainful. Romney was only pretending to be disdainful. He's got the mind of a shark, and you know sharks don't have the intelligence to feel disdain.
When you cut taxes during times like this, people take the money and put it under the mattress.
Yes, Obama made ONE comment about Republican obstructionism. It was very short.
Hi, Well, today I became agitated listening to your show, talking loudly to the radio again... wondering if I should call. First, your, and your callers', comments that the moderator didn't interfere, and, for example, ask Romney, "How are you going to do that?" When Romney made some kind of claim or other. Criticism of the moderator. Look, I agree that Romney stomped on the moderator (Lehrer) (and Obama did, too, a little in a more cute littel bad-boy way,) and he should have put his foot down. BUT since WHEN does that moderator take part in the debate? I respect you so much, Thom, and when you suggested that the moderator should have asked Romney his own questions, like, challenging him, well, I began to feel discouraged with you. I'm a 71 year old used-to-be-independent and now-am-Progressive, largely because of YOU – and I'm SURE that the moderator does not take part in the debate at ALL. I'll be listening tomorrow to see if you comment on this. Also, I heard one of your callers complain that there were a lot of important topics that "should have" been brought up. I didn't hear you tell her that at the beginning of the debate, it was made very clear that only CERTAIN topics were going to be discussed, and it was made very clear what they were. (Other topics were left for the subsequent two debates.) Why didn't you remind her of that??
From my point of view here, I watched the debate .... and the next day I'm getting a lot of MoveOn type emails telling me to contribute to them because Romney lied so much. "Well, why do I have to contribute to them because Romney lied?" I said to my computer monitor. "That was Obama's job to counter those lies." So here I agree with you, and the fellow that has the show before you "Ed," that poor Obama just did not stand up for himself. (DID he have the flu?) And on the evening news, on my local TV today some local woman commented on how Romney seemed more "sure of himself" and so she likes him! Yes, Lie in a very confident way! I loved your discovery that HE IS JUST LIKE REAGAN!!! And your dual clips... even playing Reagan saying "Trickle down government." I thought Romney had made that up. Nope!! It's the job of the liberal and progressive media to define EXACTLY WHY Romney's lies are LIES. *I* don't even know that. Duhh... The American people must be told! By you! And then we will tell our neighbors!! Oh, and you know what? I blame "Capitalism" – at least the advertizing part of Capitalism - for that phenomenon working. All our lives we get confidently lied to by actors on advertisements.
Oh, and one more thing... I watched the debate on CSpan, so it wouldn't get interrupted by blah blah blah, and then turned to Public TV, and a was disappointed that that little pannel said nothing about that disgusting fake disdainful smile that Romney had on his face most of the time. Did you feel grossed out by that? What a phony he is. He's a typical religious human. Protect your friends and family and screw everyone else. That includes in the context of war, especially.
I really do feel that Obama is a spiritual man. Hope I'm not wrong!!
Thanks for all you do!!!
Wendalore
This is John Kerry being swiftboated, all over again. Except that it's Obama being called "boy," and a liar, by a man who can't string two words together without lying, by a man whose one and only talent is a calculating look of pity which is more than a little ironic when you consider that Romney has no pity for any of the thousands of people he has harmed, and he will have no pity for the millions of people he plans to harm if he becomes president.
And there stands Obama, smiling like a twelve year old boy at his first school dance. This is the Obama who said that if our unions were threatened, he would be there to support them, and then when our unions were threatened, he sat on his hands and did nothing.
I could understand Kerry not fighting back, because after all both he and Bush belonged to Skull and Bones, and Kerry was probably told to just sit there and take it like a good S&B, and let Bush literally steal the election. But Obama and Romney aren't even the same species: Obama is human, and romney is a komodo dragon capitalist.
Let's take up a collection: Give a testicle to Obama. And to get the ball rolling as it were, I will donate one of mine. I am serious: I would give Obama one of my nuts, if it would help him stand up and act like a man!
On this poll 8% say it will cost him the election. That is a bigger percentage than what he was leading by. I keep hearing about '' undecided voters" and many could change their vote by listening to the debate, without checking if what the candidates say is what their record shows is true. It is scary that so many people couldn't see through Romney's act, though it was a good act and I was disapointed that the President didn't hit back harder.
To me, the President seemed to be waiting for Romney to try to defend the positions he has been taking. However, he dodged every attempt by Obama to discuss any actual political policy. Instead, he repeated a few overused right wing talking points. All in all, he and Obama didn't really have a debate, which would dictate that they would touch bases enough to have an honest disagreement. They both agreed that there are a lot of issues at stake. But Romney wouldn't actually talk about these issues.
Romney must have studied old videos of Wm. Buckley, who often affected an air of disdain. He wore it, like a mask, the whole night. Unlike Buckley, there was no evidence of a mind working behind the mask.
I'm personally feeling extremely depressed, that such a man might be elected. He cannot represent the people of the United States, and keep all his loyalties with corporate America.
I think Romney is a vampire, for real. You can always tell by the hairstyling.
Imagine having spent over 3-years dealing with the minutia of a trillion-dollar operation, crisis after global-crisis, everything ultimately landing on your desk, with continuous vicious opposition from opponents, and frankly weak-support from your own party and the public -- and tonight finding yourself on a carnival stage with an arrogant pompous-ass spewing simplistic lie after misrepresentation after fabrication, of grossly oversimplified banalities. How do you begin to respond in half of 90-minutes? -- -- Then suddenly the futility of three long years might become distressingly clear. The very fact that this poser is across the stage from you . . . . acting like he's important. And you're supposed to take this seriously? Me . . . I'd be silently wagging my head asking myself, "What the hell am I doing here, wasting my time with this loser, on a pseudo-reality-show, little more than gladiatorial entertainment for millions of folks -- when I have real work to do?"Or more likely, I'da long ago said: "Take this job and shove it. I'm outta-here; who needs-it."
Very well said flyguy Forturnatly, I have done very well in my life and have nothing to worry about except my Grandchildrens future. That massive debt will be theirs to pay off. Wow.
What did I learn from the debate...well nothing really! But I will say that if Romney is truly proud of his performance of compulsive lies, then he is clinically delusional. Or was he showing us the degree of depravity some rich guys are willing to lower themselves to for wealth and power.
The problem is, his quest for wealth and power is not a victimless situation, many are suffering as a direct result of his actions. The corp. media is being complicit by not exposing the truth behind his past exploits as a vulture capitalist. I don't care if it was legal or not, it was GD wrong, and we all know it. In my opinion the fight will get violent and end up in the streets if he and his type are not brought under control by our Democratic process!
His type of wealth comes at an enormous cost to society.
Ditto for drug testing Romney. Did the candidates know what the questions were going to be before the debate? It seemed to me Romney started answering the questions almost before he was asked. He didn't have to think at all about what his answer would be.
On point 3 - you are absolutly right. Further, when given the chance to talk of the role of Government he could have read from the constitution - We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. He could have blasted MR using the Life Liberty and persute of happiness relating all of it to his policies. Instead, he let M.R. falsly use the declration of indenpendence -
He let M.R. use religion - faith, when he could have used Mt. where Jesus says "What you have done to the least of these you have done to me" in referring to helping the poor. For health care he could have used the Marine "Never leave a man behind" to refer to health care. He could have said "How can we leave 40 million americans to die on the battlefield of injury and disease, and still claim to be patriots, much less Americans?!"
Where was his passion? Listening to Obama was like eating lukewarm oatmeal - good and healthy, but yuck! If he does not learn how to speak the truth in a passionate way, he could loose!
Wow, you progressives really need to get a life if you look for a racist behind every tree. It must be really depressing in your world.
Sir:
I learned from the debate, and the reaction of the media and the viewers, that things are far worse than even I thought.
For thirty years I have been watching Democrats wither in the face of untrue conservative rant.
I believe the problem is existential and physiological.
I am currently living in one of the most most shallow and conservative areas of the country, Flathead Valley, Montana
I see first hand how this process is working.
lf I truly believed that America had been taken over by a foreign born, Muslim, out to install Sharia law, I might want to revolt too. And I think, it quite likely they will revolt shall Mr. Obama win again. There is no amount of reason or fact that can reach them.
The problem can be simplified to: There is no consensus reality anymore.
As I state in my new, first blog on your site, I believe there is one power responsible, and only one way to return to rational reality.
The Head of The Beast, is Fox News. And it must be confronted head on. Then all else will fall into place. If not, then all else is useless.
In the late nineties, Fox won through appeal, the constitutional right to lie on the news, in the name of freedom of speech.
Akre-Wilson vs Fox.
I think, that unless we attack the head of the beast directly, there is no hope for a cure in my lifetime.
Eventually all will be fine, since evolution has a liberal bias, as higher parts of the brain become activated, but as you know, evolution is excruciatingly slow.
I am going to give it my best, to implore all liberal and moderate talkers to take up this fight.
Good song by the way,,,,Fight the Good Fight, by Triumph.
Thank you for letting me speak to you.
Tag, you're it.
Update about that "boy" thing: seems like there IS a coordinated pattern. Rachel exposed Newt's use of the words "rhythm", "performer", about Obama as he made references to basketball and laziness and said Obama was not a "real president" (Oct. 2nd show, clip at website). Now today John Sununu loudly proclaimed that Obama flubbed the debate because he is "LAZY"... this is embedded dog whistle stuff all over the place. Just more subtle and harder to pin down as being racist. There are more such seedings going on, I'll bet.
What I learned:
1 - Obama is not the smartest guy in the room.....with out his pre-developed talking points and teleprompter, he is just another passionate law professor disposed to an anti-white colonial view point, AKA redistrabutionist. He also can't lead. Who would follow a whimp like that into a fire.....
2 - Jim Leher is a whimp
3 - Romney is a fantastic CEO and business leader, he has presidential skills like a Kennedy, Reagan and Ike. However, can he be strong enough to bitch slap the far right wing nuts as well a Pelosi and Reid....I doubt it. The good news is that he does not need the money and that is not what drives his passion. He may be too "normal" to be the president.
4 - The main stream media are whimps too....Fox continues to shine and will grow. However, Maddow, Shultz, Hannity and Rush all need to be sent to an Island and see who survives....then stay there.
5 - The country is basically stupid. But, 60 million of us saw the awful truth of what we have elected and could elect. If we want to seriously change, we need to seriously be able to accept the truth and take the pain. Otherwise, we will fall apart like all good democracies in the past have with a revolution and typically a dictatorship until the cycle repeats for another 200 years.
6 - I am so glad I was born in 1950 and I am so sorry my generation is leaving behind such shit for the younger of you. I wont be around for the fall out.....but you 20 and 30 somethings could learn some good lessons from my parents generation. I suggest you read up on the greatest generation and mirror them. It was sure a nice time and place to grow up. I am grateful.
I am also voting, you should too.
I agree with Mr. Hartmann. President Obama absolutely must take off the gloves. No more democratic nicety. If he can find the moxie to bring out the statistics like Clinton did at the convention then he will invigorate those in the middle class who work and vote for truth. If he remains passive then I suspect he will lose to the mendacious republican royalists.
This will never happen, but it would be nice:
Formal rules of debate like debating teams follow. Four judges -2 conservative 2 liberal - two from Britain, two from Canada, thus no interest in winner. 10 concise questions, 4 minute response. When time is up - mike is shut off. Judges score on accuracy of answers, relevance of answer to actual question, completeness of answer, presentation, logical development, etc. Score debate in real time on scoreboard for all to see.
Anybody who calls these fiascos debates nowadays is nuts.
Perhaps a step in this direction could happen if the entertainment world developed a popular game-like/reality show around real debating. It could happen - they did it with something as boring as ballroom dancing.
I think Obama tries not to appear as a angry black man as Hannity tries to portray him Obama must be much more assertive Screw Hannity No one who thinks for oneself buys into Fox Hannity or Rushs race baiting nonsense.and smears .
I did not percieve President Obama as lethargic as much as just plain pissed. I can't blame him. Mitt Romney was a dedicated and obedient agent of the 1 % special interest. Romney was well rehersed
and obviously intensly coached for talking points which were mis- represented. If this had been a game show where accuracy determined the winner Obama would have won hands down. The most unfortunate thing about this debate is that Obama is a moral gentleman with important issues regarding
the nation.
Unlike Obama Mitt has NO job and Has all the time in the world to prepare his remarks aka lies. Mitt etched a sketched his way through the debate . Mitt Lied about his and Ryans tax plan, cutting education, hiring teachers ,Mitt lied about regulation. Lied about everything Yet corp media-talking heads , cons declare Mitt a winner .Lying with sincerity now counts as a win. How low have we sunk ?
In a sense the politics of today, as in redistribution by the media, is made as a complex methodological argument for the grand conspiracies. It is characterized in this first debate. Lies with partnerships, the Bush boys are back.
We have before America a proven theorem of wrecked journalism.
MSNBC bristled with astonishment the president Obama didn’t do what “They” thought he should do. The president must move his facial muscles a certain way. Or look up seriously into the camera, which he did. From my view the President seem intensive on note taking. Perhaps wondering like me or others when oh when will the conspiracy which is a kind of criminal partnership are finally exposed. From my view legions of political persons are now in jeopardy according to Basic Elements (18 U.S.C. § 371).
Acts to Commit an Offense against the United States, clearly voter fraud across the nation yet News media will not yield to this catastrophe. Or perhaps clearly show the President as a statesman. The silence was golden, for from my opinion the last thing President Obama wanted to do is explain elements of the Republican being targeted by the justice department for voter fraud so the Republicans can yell foul.
Perhaps Obama is contemplating how the Congress and Senate give him a hard time throughout his Presidency; moreover the Republicans openly refuse to do something good for President Obama to make him seem successful. Then send in send in the master of tyranny and corporate greed, Mitt Romney. And to watch Romney gesture and argue openly vainly to the moderator as Romney, when he will be president with gusto will fire the very moderator Jim Lehrer journalist. Hello America did you get that? The Everest of arrogance to openly say well I like you, but you will be gone soon and big bird too. Yikes with half of America will want such crap is disgusting, and the media declaring Romney the debate winner is worse than any last judgment day. This is absolutely insane to even suggest Romney won.
I learned several things:
1. Jim Lehrer should be retired. What a disgrace! Not only could he not control the debate (he could have cut off Romney's mike the first time he tried to overspeak him), his smarmy questions were non-specific to issues and were framed to encourage responses by both sides that were nothing more than modified stump speeches.
2. From most of the responses I've seen from progressives, I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on. Frankly, I think that most of the people likely to have their opinions of the candidates influenced by the debate, likely are intellectually incapable of recognizing the lies and exaggerations for what they were. The sad fact is that Romney clearly won on style and demeanor - period. Sure he told a bunch of lies, but they were "organized" lies. He made it sound good to the casual listener. He was prepared to expound of many of them with point-by-point statements that I'm sure made it seem like he knew what he was talking about. And Obama let him get away with it scot free. Which leads me to the final thing I learned:
3. Much as I support Obama, he still needs to grow a pair of balls. Throughout the entire debate, he stood there head down, with a pathetic hang-dog look on his face. Not once did he forcefully and directly confront Romney on any of his BS. Not even on the famous 700 billion Medicare figure. Tepid responses at best and too much talking about his grandmother, etc. Where was the fire of the convention speech? Where was any comment about Republican obstructionism for the past four years? Where was anything to engender the kind of enthusiastic support we desperately need to hopefully influence down-ballot voting?
A thoroughly disgusting and discouraging night all the way around.