Palindromedary, I have already written concerning Americans Elect. Please check the recent forums. You have nothing to worry about. Later when I have time, I will find the posting for you. I am sorry you missed that post. Remember all we have spoken and you cannot possibly think that we have anything to do with Americans Elect nor any party system. What we want for the people is what the people want for themselves and much much more. Until the Military and its branches come on the side of the people, in protecting the people, protecting their mothers and fathers, sons, daughters, etc, this new system, as you call it, which is a system commonly practiced and adhered to upon other worlds will remain guarded. Perhaps Americans Elect got some of their rhetoric from us. This is why our system is kept well under guard for should it fall into the wrong hands they will corrupt it. This is a system for the people, by the people and of the people. I hope this satisfies you at this time. Please tell me if you cannot find my posting on Americans Elect for I believe at the time you responded to it. - Cygnus1

Cygnus: Yes, you are right...Here is a quote of what you said on 30 October 2011 #33

Palindromedary, your posts are very informative. As far as "Americans Elect" is concerned, you are right, do not let the name fool the American public."

And further down your post you said:
Americans Elect wants you, the people, to believe you put the Presidents in power. Nothing could be further from the truth. They wish to pre-empt any possibility of ever seeing the White House occupied by a President who is a true reflection of American patriotic sentiments. The Americans Elect tell the people to forget voting for a party, to vote only for a President. Whereas, We the People, of these United States of America will dissolve the party system, Americans Elect will retain them for they have already been "cultivated" by Israel.

We have been speaking of dissolving the party system. Americans Elect speak now of the same thing. Do not be fooled, for Americans Elect is not working for you, the people, neither are they "American Patriots" as you, the people are. Their destination is ISRAEL. As long as Israel controls the U.S. President, the Military and the Monetary system, they control YOU, THE PEOPLE, OF THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

If a majority of American people remain in ignorance by supporting such philosophy and groups, the American people will continue to die in wars run by foreign powers, and will continue to die in the streets of their own nation, these United States of America, and to die of lack of medical care, medicine, education, and starvation. - Cygnus1

I do remember reading this now.

I've been checking out one of the Occupy Wall St Facebook pages for the past few weeks, and I noticed over the past couple of days there has been a few of the right wing trolls posting links about sex activity among the demonstrators. Prior to this, they were almost uniformly calling the OWS participants Communists and sometimes Socialists. Now I hear Thom's guest Curtis Sliwa repeatedly call the participants Copulaters and Fornicators. It seems to me that the Right is getting desperate, since they couldn't get traction with the Communist/Socialist labels, they've switched to trying to paint them as Sexual deviants, or at least they imply it as such. I think it is further evidence that the right wing mind is lizard like, they're trying to find a simple concept to smear the OWS movement with, that will cause people to fear it. Personally I think they have to try harder, this isn't the 1950's anymore, the average American is no longer scared of Communists or Sex. I guess rampant drug use will be the next smear campaign, its already being setup by authorities redirecting drunks and homeless to the OWS site. Guess they haven't figured out that even those that would under normal economic conditions prick up their ears to the dog whistling fears, they are more afraid of losing their jobs and homes. In other words they have some real skin in the game, and straw man arguments just will not gain traction.

It is amusing to listen to the right wingers scream about their silly fears, it shows them for who they are down deep and how insignificant they're concerns are and how far out they are of the mainstream loop.

N

So will the 1% supporters ignore this or ridicule it ?

No doubt mass media will provide an extensive fair and balanced thorough report on Michael Jackson"s Doctors situation today.

I propose a new motto: Question Authority. It was good-enough for the 70s, it is good-enough for now as well!

The arise of these fundamentalist denominations that try to foist the belief that God is interested what kind of politicial or monetary system we have are mistaken. If they are as Bible literate as they purport they would remember that God has not deemed to care whether we have his name on our money, whether we are called "liberal" or "conservative". He does not honor our flag or our political life, only as it pertains to our treatment of our fellow man. That is the second of only two commandments in the New Testament, "to love your neighbor as yourself". That commandment covers all of commandments 2 through 10. God cares about our actions. We are discouraged to stand on the street corner and proclaim how rightious we are. These kind of shenanigans are standing on the corner proclaiming nothing and do more harm than good to our religious beliefs. Mankind creates its own messes.

Framing the argument.

The right are mostly businessmen and have huge amounts of capital to spend on marketing their snake oil.

They will often take a point and claim it, forcing one to assume anyone on the other side must also be on the other side of the argument, i.e., Americans for prosperity. They are making a passive argument that the 99% are attacking the sucessful and want to lower the standards of America overall in a sort of leveling.

I view this like I view how I was told as a child to save my money and get some interest out of it, instead of blowing it on candy. Investing in society is the slow, yet responsible way to prosperity. In the news, MA again wins highest test scores in its schools.

http://www.boston.com/Boston/metrodesk/2011/11/mass-students-continue-lead-nation-reading-and-math/VihIYmJ6fO7eBthm9H2DpL/index.html

This will, in time reap prosperity. You plant a seed and watch it grow. It's not immediate gratification like getting that candy, or a ferrari, or yacht, but like the hasty child, America will be left LESS prosperous in time if we don't invest socially. This is NOT to create a wellfare state, but to create a well educated innovative, and prosperous state. Every time the right falsely accuses the left that a wlefare state, being their motivation, it should not only be shot down, but should be preempted by a resounding mantra to the contrary that becomes household words like "trickle down" was for the right.

The right's posturing only seems to benefit the either already wealthy, or their cronies.

The OWS did great by claiming the argument by calling themselves the 99%. This type of framing needs to continue. When met with the argument that we are against prosperity, that should be shot down and clarrified that we want prosperity for the many, for the meritorious, and the innovative, but the merit will come through healthy well educated people and will be sustainable through responsiblity to our neighbors and the Earth.

The 1% wants prosperity for killing jobs, paying slave wages and keeping money in the lucky sperm club, not for America as a whole.

The progressive framing is not snake oil marketing, it is authenticity, but the left often takes a knee jerk defensive stance and plays into the right's straw man.

Prosperity for all should be the loudest point comming from the left if you want progressive ideals to become populist. If we want an education focused society like we saw in 60s in response to the space race, if we want fair wages, if we want a better life for our children and our country. It is a slow road upward, but we are and have been, for 30 years, on a slow road downward.

Chris in Germany

Cygnus1: Just curious...what system are you talking about? You mean there is a system ready to take the place of the current corrupt system? I hope it includes throwing most of the banksters, politicians, corporate CEOs, and bigtime Wall Street gamblers in jail for a long time and getting our money and economy back.

I sure hope you are not referring to anything related to Americans Elect because they are definitely not who they appear to be. If you know anything about that group, their founder, and the other associates and organizations, and their wealthy right-wing backers they are affiliated or part of, then it sounds very much like what they are planning to do.

Peter Ackerman's International Center on Nonviolent Conflict and other like organizations have everything to do with overthrowing governments (so far it has only been foreign governments but with Americans Elect it looks like they are working on what they can accomplish in the US...and they would probably very likely take advantage of the current atmosphere to install their own government. And I really don't think it would be what we, as liberals, or progressives, or just American citizens would welcome. Hitler took advantage of the discontent, fear, and confusion and history repeats itself. I'm not saying that AE would result in another Hitler but who knows?

Maybe I missed some of the things you have said but you sound like you have some inside information about another "government" just waiting in the wings to overthrow the current one...which includes a good part of the military. One thing is for sure that the criminals who are currently running our government have to change in favor of the people or they won't have "their" government. Maybe the corrupt government is getting just a little bit nervous now...I don't know. They sure look and sound nervous both Republican and Obama. If they are rolling out the bull dozers in the streets of America like they do in Palestine against the Palestinians then you know they are getting nervous.

Another thing that is making the ruling elite very nervous is China and what is going on in the rest of the world right now. Of course, the US has been a big part of the reason why the world is falling apart. It is the neoliberal marketing job it did on other countries like Russia and Greece. They fell flat on their faces, as are we. It has been a failure of neoliberal chicago-school captialism that the US tried so hard to sell to everyone else. So anyway, with all of this tension and strife, on a world-wide scale, our current government wracked with internal corruption and a lack of faith from the people in that government may lead to some very horrible things.

The government will see all these demonstrations as acts of anarchy and will feel obligated to crack down hard...which will amplify the ill feelings of the people. I don't know if we, the people, have anything beyond a faddish will to butt heads with a well-armed government. But like you said...if we have most of the military on our side then we might have a chance. But, do we? Or is it just a few militia waiting in the wings? I know that there are a lot of militia that have been waiting and training for just this sort of opportunity. But there are variations in what many of these militia believe is important. Some are faith-based and would love to make the new government a theocracy.

I don't know..but it is getting very, very interesting...if not scary but what is scarier is starvation, no shelter, your loved ones dying, no health care. But at least we have gotten some token concessions by getting the banks to back down...but that is so too little..too late...what we need is jobs and a big change in our corrupt system of government and economic system. We need to trash the criminal smoke and mirrors, marketing driven, F.I.R.E. economy and start making things again. Stop outsourcing our jobs.

Where are the jobs? Our jobs are in China, exported by American Corporations. Our Congress represents special interests, and their interests do not include me.

Palindromedary, right! Noone with their sensibilities intact would vote again for President Obama, nor any man nor woman who is going to continue in working under the present day system for Wall Street, the bankers and all the rest who work for "the glory of Israel." Money hungry leeches will continue trying to prop President Obama up, but the REVOLUTION will have its way.

There were some points I wanted the readers to observe, so I thought the article was a worthwhile read.

Once the military all stand up as true protecters of the people, then the entire system can be thrown out. Once all party systems have been disbanded, dissolved, or whatever you like to call it, and the new system put in then the people will never need to worry about men and women absconding with their money again. This new system has such safeguards as to prevent this from happening. But this system is being kept away from the people until such time as their sons and daughters in the military free their nation from the 1% who uses the U.S. military for their own agenda, so it does not fall into the wrong hands. The people will not be disappointed. - Cygnus1

If only the republican reps. could forget about the Kochs, Norquist, and trickle down, for one moment....and focus on reality, they might come to realize the magnitude of pain and suffering they have caused this great country. If there is any doubt, look at their legislative voting records and contrast it to the Democrats, I'm serious! I agree the entire system is dysfunctional with big money, however the Democrats in large part are not the enemy of the 99%....the republicans assuredly are!