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The city of Oakland should be "compelled" to set aside millions of dollars to cover the damages done to Scott Olsen; even if he walks away with little permanent damage done to his person, the money could be invested into a park for the protesters so that there is no longer any question as to the who has priority access to the space.
PS: I will probably not come back to read comments to this comment, and I don't know if comments upon comments is really the most useful thing... however Thom has mentioned the importance of passive resistance repeatedly. And yes in general that is the moral imperative... however when it is not simply a question of indiscriminate fire. If a cadre of police or whoever was physically assaulting people nearby. Is it not the moral imperative of anyone to come to the persons defense, subduing the threat to the people by whatever means necessary?
To standby passively would be the same moral failing were the assault a random event to happen on the street should the crowd continue to go about its business as if nothing was happening. To this end anyway, its impossible to justify utterly passive resistance IMHO.
"Unlike the manufactured Tea Party movement"
When the tea party organized into public decent against corruption they no more than opened their mouths than the "Democrats" demonized them and the "Republicans" tried to herd them back under control.
Once again OWS voices public decent against corruption and no more said than the "Republicans" demonize them and the "Democrats" try to herd them back under control.
Interesting -------
Exodus serves an example of the power of union.
Fortunes are made on the backs of labor.
Fortunes are lost whipping the backs of labor.
Hopefully a progressive movement will materialize with more definite causes identified. Truthfully, it is only way for Democrats to win in 2012. With the exception of Obama, the Democrats are ridiculously incapable of conducting a meaningful campaign. Where are the Democrats when REpublicans are daily repeating the same old lies without any response from Democrats with the exception of Obama. Obama seems to have gotten the message we want someone that stands up and fights for the average citizen. Democrats as a whole appear not to have gotten the message.How about Pryor, Nelson, Testor, and Lieberman who voted against Obama's jobs bills?
I agree with Ron Paul on the wars but not much else Anyway Iraq is now ending as is Libya who's peoeple have a chance at freedom.Now Its up to them. Bin laden is dead, as are many top AL quada and Ghadify. Obama has a decent record against all odds If GOP Baggers Fox Hannity Rush Palen Bachman & 800 con radio showx had not lied, demonized, called Obama most vile names .and vowed to break him US would be in a better place now.. Recovering.. .
OOPS! Doesn't look promising. The Repubs won't budge on tax increases and I doube the Dems will budge on social services cuts. Even if they get a bill to the floor, I doubt it will pass. Grover Norquist is more important than the R's duty to the Constitution.
I heard a comment today that is the Supercommittee's plan is approved, he doubted whether it would ever be put in place. I don't know if that's true, if it could be true. I don't know what happens then.
I just emailed my 2 Senators to tell them I will not vote for anyone who agrees to cut Medicare and Medicaid. Amy Klobuchar (MN) is up for re-election and probably will win, but she has cast votes for bad legislation in the past and she needs to be reminded who she serves.
Let's flood our congresspeople with emails vowing not to vote for anyone who tries to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
A snake oil salesman like your boy Obama, or Mr. Hartmann??? According to an article I read recently in the Wash. Post (I think) Obama is raising more money from wall st. than Romney.
And let's not forget that most of the times when the "evil" republicans pass some law that you don't like, that they have done so with the help of your blessed Democrats. Bush didn't take us to war by himself, and neither did Obama in Libya--oh wait... Anyway, the point is that usually, except for in the last case, it takes both Repubs and Dems to get us into the messes we get into. There's a term for it--bi-partisanship.
And the Tea Party was not manufactured. It started as a money bomb for the Ron Paul for pres. 08 campaign and was taken over/co-opted by the neoconservatives/mainstream republicans.
If anyone of you are actually anti war, anti wall st., anti big huge multi-national corporations, anti lobbyists, anti monopolies, pro environment, pro peace, pro freedom, pro choice, then their is only one man running for President that should get your vote. And it's certainly not Obama, or Romney. Ron Paul 2012! Let's help get this country sane again. Or vote for Romney or Obama and let's keep the status quo ball rolling.
I wish the speediest recovery for Scott, to serve our country and return to this is just wrong. It's appalling that a peaceful protest has been treated to such violence, Oakland Mayor Jean Quan must resign! My latest cartoon is about Oakland and our free speech rights.
www.whatnowtoons.com
Left of center political cartoons
Well said!
It's not a load of bull, it's the way our system works.
FWIW-Tactics used to keep folks peaceful during spring Wisconsin protests:
People were appointed as monitors - they circulated around the crowd looking for and dealing with potential problems
Signs everywhere - keep this peaceful
If someone got too upset, people circled him or her until they calmed down.
Teddy Roosevelt dashed Tarriffs that Mckinley and the Republicans strived for. He killed American Productivity. We NEED another Gilded Age. A massive industrialization. Thanks to Teddy we still have Fossil Fuels. Don't forget that Rockefeller didn't become the Wealthiest man of all time until AFTER the Anti Trust. That gave the Rockefeller Lobbying power to push for Prohibition. Don't forget that Cars where fueled by Alcohol before Prohibition.
Progressivism has NEVER been about Progress
Gilded Age brought us
Protective industries, A powerful Currency, cheap goods for EVERYONE to use,
Progressive Era brought us
Prohibition, Federal Reserve with an income tax to pay for the new debt, Free Trade with imperalism, and a World War!
I'll take Mckinley over T.Roosevelt any day
Our Congress is like the story of the visiting spacemen... you know the one. They tell everyone who can listen that they're here to serve the public. And we're now finding out what they are peddling is a menu on how they can best devour and live off of all of us common folk.
Robber Bankersters days are numbered. The movement of the 99 percent is unstoppable. Unlike the manufactured Tea Party movement, these people come to protest because of their beliefs not because they were paid to protest. They will not relent because so many have already lost their employment, their homes, and their respect for Republican lawmakers. When they hear Mitt Romney claim that Corporations are People and that the government should encourage the banks to foreclose so that rich people can buy the homes at bargain prices and rent them out to poor people, they understand that Republican law makers only represent the 1 percent who own 43 percent of all the wealth. They will remember that Mitt Romney is one of the 1 percent. How could he or his rich Republican friends hope to get their votes.
The voter surpression plans of the Republican Party will fail . . . even the Republican voters who arrive at the polls will vote against these plutocrats. They have run into the modern world of the Internet and Social Media, their lies cannot prevail with so much availability of the truth. Some Republican's will be fooled; however, most are smart enough to know when their is a snake oil salesman knocking at their door.
http://youtu.be/Myqffx8Mdg4
Please, someone smarter then me tell me why this is a load of bull.
My gloomy prediction of OWS being pushed underground and an insurgency developing was not what I hope will happen, but what I think will happen. Keep in mind that the wealthy have been working tirelessly since the 60s (when the "rabble" took to the streets and shook corporate America to its foundations--figuratively and literally) to take control of, and/or neuter, all the weapons the average person, back then, had at his/her disposal to "fight city hall": the media, in the dearth of investigative reporters (and, the ubiquitous presence of Fox News; even the internet is being used for surveillance so that, when the time comes, the movement leaders will easily be identified and rounded up); the political system (now bought and paid for and, when that doesn't work, there are always rigged voting machines); the judicial system, which is stuffed with right-wing crazies (notice Pres. Obama has not replaced the Bush U.S. Attorneys; remember that quaint "habeous corpus" concept: the Patriot Act allows for the arrest of U.S. citizens on only "suspicion" and no charges or trial are necessary); law enforcement, with off-the-record "private security" firms burgeoning (recall that Blackwater members killed U.S. citizens during Katrina); and, undergirding all of these changes has been the backbone of right-wing think tanks, which were developed to provide phony "research evidence" to help convince the average person that the wealthy are their friends and corporations really do have their best interests at heart. Thus, the real fight-the-power weapons are gone and, unlike Egypt or Libya, where thousands of people were willing to give their lives to overthrow dictators, the masses in this country have been systematically softened and brainwashed into thinking that the military, after all, are the true patriots (have you noticed the continual drumbeat of militarism/nationalism during all recent sports broadcasts?). It won't take thousands of protesters killed to disperse OWS, maybe only a few. Then, the descent into Fascism will accelerate. Sorry...wish I could paint a rosier picture.
"Occupy Oakland demonstrator – and Iraq War veteran – Scott Olsen is still in a hospital in serious condition with a fractured skull after being hit in the head with a tear gas canister during Tuesday’s night police assault on Occupy Oakland." submitted by Thom and Louise Hartmann
Marine Scott Olson, another HEROIC MARINE.
Unless the marines stand up as a unified force, the police will not recognize them as being STRONGER than they are, and will continue in being thugs.
This is not an old woman's tea party, (no reference to the Tea Party) The police need to find a force physically stronger than themselves in order to leave the police force in favor of the revolution.
When the marine on Wall Street went up against 32 policemen he was easily recognizable as a marine and was not giving out coffee and donuts to the police. (I highly doubt the police are even allowed while on duty to take coffee and donuts from the protesters).
In essence, when the soul of ones such as policemen and policewomen are so weak that they have no patriotism left in them, the marines must realise that the old woman's tea party will not work, and the police themselves in their automated state are not the friends nor the protecters of the people.
The marines leave their country to fight (for their country, which is actually for the corporate powers and the bankers), so why should not the marines attired in full fatigues, fight for their own country against those who have taken it over and against those who fight for the 1% at the top and their henchmen?
Projectiles, rubber bullets, are deadly, by whatever name the media go by to downplay the deadly "objects!"
PEOPLE WHO DO THIS AGAINST PEACEFUL PROTESTERS ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS, MARINES! THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS! THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE! THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE! THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION! THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION! THEY DO NOT REPRESENT FREEDOM AND LIBERTY FOR THE PEOPLE!
THEY DO NOT REPRESENT FREEDOM AND LIBERTY FOR THE PEOPLE! THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE FREEDOM AND LIBERTY OF WHICH YOU ARE TOLD YOU FIGHT FOR, TO PROTECT, WHEN YOU ARE OVERSEAS, RISKING YOUR LIVES!
THEY DO NOT REPRESENT FREEDOM AND LIBERTY FOR THE PEOPLE! THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE FREEDOM AND LIBERTY OF WHICH YOU ARE TOLD YOU FIGHT FOR, TO PROTECT, WHEN YOU ARE OVERSEAS, RISKING YOUR LIVES!
YOUR GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT! IT IS THE GOVERNMENT OF FOREIGN POWERS! YOUR GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT! IT IS THE GOVERNMENT OF FOREIGN POWERS!
WITH WHOM DOES YOUR ALLIANCE STAND?! WITH WHOM DOES YOUR ALLIANCE STAND?!
Thom I loved the segment on your TV show last night on the ten year anniversary of the patriot act.I kind of found it ironic that in chicago news yesterday morning a man made it past the tsa and got on a plane without a boarding pass at midway airport in chicago.
The rebels in Libya did something very interesting and noble. The National Transitional Council has set up a provisional government, and their interim Constitutional Declaration says (quoting Wikipedia here) that "no member of the Transitional National Council may nominate a candidate [for] or themselves assume the position of President of the state, of a member of the legislative council, or of a ministerial portfolio." They will not be able to rule as an oligarchy.
Forget the message boards; they're too complicated to sort through.
There was a lot of talk on the Stephanie Miller Show this morning about the lack of focus in OWS. As we all know, they tried to come up with one demand and decided against it. The top 1%'s demand, of course, is "Give us all your money." I think the OWS crowd could come up with a list of 99 demands. That would show why there's a lack of focus--there's too much wrong with the system to put it under one name.
"FREE MONEY. Ordinary people have to borrow their money at market rates. Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon get billions of dollars for free, from the Federal Reserve. They borrow at zero and lend the same money back to the government at two or three percent, a valuable public service otherwise known as "standing in the middle and taking a gigantic cut when the government decides to lend money to itself."
Or the banks borrow billions at zero and lend mortgages to us at four percent, or credit cards at twenty or twenty-five percent. This is essentially an official government license to be rich, handed out at the expense of prudent ordinary citizens, who now no longer receive much interest on their CDs or other saved income. It is virtually impossible to not make money in banking when you have unlimited access to free money, especially when the government keeps buying its own cash back from you at market rates.
Your average chimpanzee couldn't !@#$ (my censor for prurient eyes-word may be acceptable on Rolling Stone but I doubt it on Thom Hartmann) up that business plan, which makes it all the more incredible that most of the too-big-to-fail banks are nonetheless still functionally insolvent, and dependent upon bailouts and phony accounting to stay above water. Where do the protesters go to sign up for their interest-free billion-dollar loans?"
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-stree...
And so now the Madoffs are whining on 60 minutes about their "almost" committing suicide...duh, are we supposed to melt and give them sympathy, or even empathy? It's too bad they didn't go through with it. They deserve it...if not the guillotine or a hang-man's noose! That's what these rich scamsters all deserve! Too harsh? Not when you consider all of the people..even children..who may have died, or will die because of the "rich man's policy of squeezing people out of their fair wages and health care". Rich people are committing murder in their war against the people.
Well, at least the Madoffs made off (get it?) with other rich people's money and not some working stiff's life savings...or did they?
Thank you, Ed in Iowa. I'm also constanly annoyed by people treating "x times more" the same as "x times as much". "More" means "in addition to what was already there", so "3 times more" is the same as "4 times as much".
If "Joe the Plummer" winds up in Congress, he'll need to thank Obama directly for getting him a job!
The guy is ONLY "famous" 'cause he MET OBAMA.
Dawkins' atheism
Thom, please don't misrepresent Dawkins' position as absolute certainty.
While he walks right up to the edge of certainty, I'm willing to bet that he would profess no more certainty about the absence of a god or god than than you would about the existence of a god or gods. Dawkins, like any thinking atheist, would posit that eschewing beliefs unsupported by observation or evidence is consistent with Huxleyan agnosticism (Thomas Huxley coined the word agnostic). Huxley, as part of his definition, advises, "In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable."
100% evidential certainty is something science never claims; every idea is subject to revision upon better evidence, observation, or explanatory model. Deduction is not reason's only tool- induction is also powerful.
In fact, in his book, "The God Delusion," Dawkins posits a "spectrum of theistic probability," which of course has a wiki page (from which I'll quote): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability
Dawkins posits that "the existence of God is a scientific hypothesis like any other." He goes on to propose a continuous "spectrum of probabilities" between two extremes of opposite certainty, which can be represented by seven "milestones". Dawkins suggests definitive statements to summarize one's place along the spectrum of theistic probability. These "milestones" are:[2]
Dawkins argues that while there appear to be plenty of individuals that would place themselves as "1", no thinking atheist would consider themselves "7", as atheism arises from a lack of evidence and evidence can always change a thinking person's mind. In print, Dawkins self-identified as a '6', though when interviewed by Bill Maher, he suggested he might be '6.9'[3].
Thanks, Thom,
Ken Cope, listening on Green960
A 300% gain is not a tripling of income - it's a QUADRUPLING. If you start with a buck and add 100% you've doubled your income. If you add another 100% you get three bucks and add another 100 (300%) you get 4.00, quadruple where you started.