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To answer your question, yes and no. I think we came close during the financial crisis when protesters presented outside of the homes of Wall St. bankers. If things become uncomfortable enough for people to put down the remote control then it's very likely based on current trends.
The middle class is a buffer between the rich and poor. Between projects and the country club are middle class neighborhoods, literally. One would think that the most wealthy people would understand the need for this buffer.
Here's the rub, according to the Huffington Post when asked if they supported cuts to entitlements most people said no. When asked who they thought should be in charge of the process preventing such cuts, they said Republicans. In other words, the people who are opposed to cuts want the people with the knife to be in charge of the process that will ultimately result in cuts to entitlements. Interesting!
Liberals are wearing the POTUS out on Chicago's Progressive Talk Radio for even considering cuts in entitlement but look at the aforementioned conflicting information from the polls. I don't blame the POTUS at all I blame the people. The people put Republicans in charge of the House in the mid-terms and now they will pay dearly for their apathy.
Religion seems to be Thom's blind spot. He has declared an affection for the Catholic Church (one of the most non-progressive institutions on the planet) and now he is attacking atheism for coming out of the closet. He keeps calling it a religion because it is "organized" like a religion and has a "belief system." There's one small difference: religion typically requires a deity of some kind, some extra-human force. So, atheism hardly qualifies. If you are a Democrat you have a belief system, but is it a religion? Thom exhibits his ignorance and bias here about atheism and seems to resent their advertising the group. Why? He is a strong proponent of "spiritualism" and seems to begrudge any other opinion. But he can't define "spiritualism" beyond calling it "mysterious." Why does mystery have to be spiritual? Why not just leave it as an awe inspiring mystery? A psychological process and reaction to something we can't understand? An otherwise intelligent progressive, Thom H. is narrow minded when it comes to rejecting religion and spirituality. He can't seem to let it go... Anit-progressive bias in a declared progressive is not pretty to watch.
If Minnesota Republicans have called not raising taxes on rich people (in exchange for an increase on cigarette taxes) a "disappointing step backward", Gov. Dayton should re-propose an increase in taxes on rich people and sell it as a step forward.
In an online petition that was to be sent to Pres. Obama, the personal note I added said, "Turning the other cheek is only useful when your enemy is capable of shame." I hope he takes it to heart, and doesn't give in to any destructive Republican demands.
What's with Obama agreeing with the republicans & putting Social Security on Medicare on the table, as if these programs are part of the cause of the soaring national debt?
I am beginning to wonder if we have a republican mole in the Oval office...
I really would like to hear what Thom has to say about my comments..but something tells me he's going to ignore it because deep inside he knows he's wrong..and his agenda is wrong.. this is the problem I have with most liberals, especially christian liberals. Liberal christianity is flawed.... it is theologically hopeless..this is exactly why you had the protestant reformation to get away from this idea of catholic insanity. What Thom has done here is degenerate science, philosophy...and most importantly, seemingly to him, theology.
I believe that there people out there are becoming more and more angry with the " Class Warfare" that is going on. We are tired of the rehtoric from the Democrats in Congress and the Senate. The only one with any sincerity is Bernie Sanders, G Bless Him. Should Obama give in for what will be the fifth time to the GOP's demands there may very well be a strong movement by the citizens of this Country. We need a strong third party and should Obama win a second term, personnally untill we do that I would not want to see a Republican in the Office of President, I would hope that we will begin to form that third party and find strong Progressives to run in that party for 2016.
If the christian wishes to be taken seriously, he must explain, not only what he claims to know, but how he claims to know it. If he did not acquire his knowledge through the sense, by what means did he acquire it? The burden of explanation lies with the christian. If he upholds his belief in the absense of rational grounds, then he is the dogmatist, not the atheist. The atheist simply wants to know what the theist believes in and how he acquired his knowledge. If explanations are not forthcoming, the atheists will remain an atheist...and this is by far...... very far removed from dogmatic religion.
It is clear that Thom has NO IDEA what he's talking about. The idea that atheism is a religion is a ridiculous point to begin with. It's like saying that since the gay rights movement organizes, "evangelizes" and collects money, it is now considered to be religious movement. The same then, can be said with the civil rights movement, or any other movement in the history of the world. It would appear that since I belong to a herpetological organization where we advertise, meet and collect money, according to Thom, then THAT is now considered to be religious organization. Thom clearly has committed a number of fallacies. Especially the fallacy regarding sensory perception. That was a low blow..because in order to really dispute that very simplistic christian claim, it requires a very lenghty education on biology and philosophy. Clearly christian claims are simple but false, because it does not require much brain power to think them up..however, in order to really dispute these fallacious claims, it requires a lenghty examination of the subject matter...from biology to philosophy.... since the christian knows this..... they think they can put you in a gotcha moment. Consider the following exchange THOM... really because you have dug yourself into a hopeless absurdity....
Christian: You claim that man gains knowledge of reality through his sense, but I submit that our sense are deceptive. Since we cannot rationally defend the reliability of sensory evidence, we must place trust in them as a matter of faith.
Atheist: Why do you say that?
Christian: Because our senses give us contradictory testimony, and even you stress that contradictions cannot exist. Look, I'll prove it to you by taking this pencil and placing it in...
Atheist: Excuse me for a moment. If I understand correctly, you are going to demonstrate that our senses do not give us accurate knowledge of reality. Is this correct?
Christian: Yes
Atheist: Then you cannot start from the prior assumption that our senses do give us accurate knowledge of reality, because this would entail accepting the truth of the very proposition which you wish to disprove. Do you agree?
Christian: Of Course
Atheist Then you won't mind if, from this point on, I don't grant you this assumption.
Christian: Naturally. Now may I proceed with my demonstration?
Atheist: (staring in the opposite direction--no answer).
Christian: I said, may I proceed?
Atheist: (startled). Did I hear something?
Christian: (irritated) I'm talking to you.
Atheist: I beg your pardon.
Christian: Are you going to be serious or not? Here I am trying to carry on an intelligent philosophical conversation, and you're acting silly.
Atheist: (squinting his eyes) It looks and sounds like you are talking to me, but then I can't be certain, since I never trust what I see and hear. In fact, I can't be sure that you are actually sitting there.
Christian: I insist that you behave reasonably!
Atheist: If I could only trust what I see and hear, I might be able to reply--assuming of course that I could trust you, if you're really there, to hear what I actually say. But, then, I couldn't be sure that what I hear myself saying is what I've siad, because...
Christian: All right, you've made your point. Have it your way. Assume, for the sake of argument, that we are communicating accurately. I admit that it cannot be proven, but assume it for now.
Atheist: Why?
Christian: So I can make my point.
Atheist: I must assume, in other words, that my senses are NOT deceptive-at least as they pertain to this conversation--so that you can get your argument off the ground to 'prove' that this entire assumption is unfounded. If your argument is correct, you don't have the means with which to make your point. Through your attempt at communication and argument, you are admitting the validity of sense perception--and, therefore, by arguing that sense pecreption is deceptive, you cut the ground from under your own feet and become mired in a hopeless absurdity....
Anyone who proclaims theirself to be the "adult" most probably isn't.
Really Thom?....REALLY!!!? And I thought you were a man who put some teeth into his thinking skills. What are you trying to gain by making an argument that Atheism is just like religion? Name the last Atheist you know who shot a 12 year old in the head for not being Atheist? Not good enough? Ok how about the last Atheist you know who invaded a country and took everything in the name of NO GOD! Still not good enough? Ok how about the last Atheist you know that raped over 50,000 little boys and girls in the name of NO GOD and claimed that it was societies fault?!
I could go on and on and on!
Leave it to say that we are not only unlike religion but we are unlike criminals having the lowest crime rate. We thrive on knowledge and truth unlike religion and we actually are embracing our fellow humanbeings no matter where they come from or sexual persuasion that they may have, except for the criminal ones, UNLIKE religion. Moreover Unlike religion We will prosecute MOFO's who break the law!
We can see humanity for the gifts and limitations it has and reach out to each other instead of to a phoney myth in the sky.
You should think long and hard about your own shortcomings in the embrace of humanity before you start comparing people in an attempt to score points with your Catholic buddies. You should also come to terms with your fears.
For all the Atheist who read this you can join us at The "A" Club on Facebook.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/TheAClub
Lets get together anyway! It's a lot of fun!
Oh and it is exclusively Atheist so Thom you might want to take a hint from your Dad and join us!
Maxrot - FOX viewers are both misimformed AND ignorant. The misinformation would not be effective were it not for a dumbed down populace. I know many of these people personally (unfortunately) and almost all of them lack basic critical thinking skills. They also don't want to have to do anything to educate themselves. I've had more than one of them tell me flat out "We don't read."
They would rather come home from work, grab a beer, play their XBox and allow FOX to just spoonfeed them the crap. They are willfully ignorant - and it infuriates me!
Wealth inequality is being brought to us not only by the Republicans but by the faux Democrat in the White House who has been doing the bidding of his corporate billionaire buddies ever since he set foot in the Oval Office. And high profile Democrats who insist that voters re-elect Obama so he can nominate a liberal for the Supreme Court are like judas goats leading the middle class over the cliff onto the rocks of total destruction. If we re-elect Obama he will cease throwing crumbs to the left and will complete the agenda he has succussfully started his first term; more money for the rich, less jobs for the rest of us, more killing in the Middle East, more torture, fewer civil liberties, more destruction of the environment and wildlife, and the handing over of Social Security and Medicare to Obama's bankster buddies on Wall Street. There is one thing that he will not do; appoint a Liberal to the Supreme Court. Once he is re-elected and begins his onslaught on the middle class, high profile Democrats will do what they do best; complain about Republicans and allow it all to happen. When really smart people insist on wearing blinders regarding Obama, what chance do those of us who see him for who he really is have of convincing people that if we want to save the middle class Obama must be replaced by a REAL Democrat?
@ SueN : What kind of an emotional argument is that you're making? Most people would say it's a very weak argument. And Thom Hartmann is your boss apparently? So what you felt compelled to come into this conversation to offer up a terribly weak argument which you back up with what exactly? All in the name of defending the person who signs your paycheck...Now tell me what would most people say to that? Most people would say that your judgement is inherently impaired, and that you're lacking in objective clarity in this matter. I don't know about you, but most people would call that as insincere as one can get.
Let's leave SueN's Fantasy Land get back to the real world shall we...
You know what this argument boils down to...Bigotry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing race, ethnicity, religion or spirituality, nationality, inter-regional prejudice, gender and sexual orientation, homelessness, various medical disorders particularly behavioral disorders and addictive disorders. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or world views.
Thom Thom may be a self-proclaimed "liberal" but most would say that Thom Thom is actually a LIAR {Liberal Idealogue And Religious} and he fits in well with other LIARS {Liberal Ideologues And Religious Sycophants} :
George H W Bush:
"No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.… I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists."
Fox viewers are not uninformed, or ignorant. Fox viewers are intentionally MISinformed. In other words they are not lacking information, they are being filled up with bogus information. Which is far more dangerous than being ignorant, for they are clinging to their misinformation, and defending it. One cannot defend a lack of information. The sheep are being led down to the slaughter house, thinking they are going to greener pastures, since that's what there shepard told them.
N
@leighmf, yes, the more things change, the more they remain the same!!!
The title of my comment is “We Are Tied.” I did it; I finally did it! I have finally tied Thom Hartmann with four terrorist files in an office complex between Baltimore and Washington, D.C. My friends in the Republican Party who had worked with me as a deep undercover operative for the party have shared with me that the American government has added me to two more terrorist files. As a deep undercover operative for the party we would go on search and destroy missions to discredit the work of progressive Americans. I was a deep undercover operative until 1984. In 1984 God spoke to me. His words were all I needed to change my wrongful ways.
You know by now that I have two terrorist files in the office complex under the names of “Stinging Words” and another file with the title of “Breaking Wind Exploits.” Stinging words is a file that rants against our nation and the killing of God’s children in immoral and wrong wars. Breaking wind exploits is a file about a marinated four bean salad with marinated Brussels sprouts and broccoli added to the salad. The other two terrorist files are on the information that I have shared with you on the benefits of adding Kim Chee to your diet and the fourth terrorist file is a Lay Minister file.
Kim Chee in your diet is important because most Americans live in a constant state of constipation. With long periods of constipation the toxicity that is lodged in the bowels will rise to the brain and Americans will be inflicted with “stinking thinking.” Kim Chee flushes out the toxicity that is lodged in our bowels. The fourth terrorist file is about a lay minister terrorist file. This terrorist file has been in the office complex for many years but it was through my lay ministering to you on the Holy Bible, especially with emphasis on the New Testament and Jesus’ words that forced the American Shadow Government to dust off this terrorist file and make it an active file. The conservative crazies have preached for years on God in the Old Testament. They believe in a punitive and vengeful God in order to justify their evil, vile, and wicked sinful ways. In the New Testament God is revealed as a loving, merciful, and forgiving God. The conservative crazies with their Ponzi schemes and shell games cannot have God as a loving, merciful, and forgiving God. They seek to keep the poor the working class, and ordinary Americans in constant fear from some outside sources and from God and His love for you and me.
Implanted Foreign Object!
The TSA is now targeting persons with a foreign object inside the person. I have an implanted pacemaker and their concern is about me and my comments on Thom’s blog. I have never had a gun or a rifle in my life. I abhor weapons of any kind. The CIA operatives do read Thom’s blog religiously. He has at least three million listeners. My comments do irritate Satan’s disciples who gravitate toward the killing of God’s children. My implanted pacemaker will curtail travel for me.
The Obsolete American!
I am nearing my seventy-second birthday and heading toward obscurity. The conservative crazies consider me a throw away American. There are more persons like me. You need only to remember our commencing of current endless immoral and wrong wars by our nation’s power structure and you will see glaring answers to your questions and how the working class and ordinary Americans are treated in our country. You also need to observe the actions of our politicians, the rich, and the transnational corporations with their ruthless policies and practices of enslaving and impoverishing ninety percent of Americans.
http://marcvaldez.blogspot.com/2010/07/obsolete-american-people.html
Ecclesiastes: There is nothing new under the sun.
Also, this is why I think so many prayers say "as it was in the beginning, it is now and ever shall be, world without end. Ah, men!"
Definitely- as cadaverine is not the same as caviar and caverine. I left off mentioning the other cadaver marker, putrescine, since I was not sure it is only present in decomposing human flesh.
For those who believe strongly in atheism, and evangelise about it, it is a religion. Just as Christianity has its evangelists, and other religions.
For those of us who simply do not believe in any god, but do not try to convert others, it is not a religion.
I could not work for a Christian who tried to convert me, but I have no problem working with Thom, nor he with me.
while i agree we should not convict someone before hand but i think most of the outrage is because this woman dumped the dead body of her daughter on the side of the road and then covered it up. The only people to blame is the state and lack of common sense.
on the other hand how do we pick what stories make headlines. why do we never see black childeren kidnapped. in my home town of Prattville, Al a young girl from a trailor park went missing. a year later her body was found by hunters long since decompossed. mabye if she lived in a rich neighborhood like Natalie Holloway we would habe heard more about it.
I hear that the soap operas are losing in popularity. Why worry the MSM will pick up the slack?
Hello Thom,
I am a long time listener and subscriber, I was the one who complained to your webmaster that I couldn't get your old radio shows on download with my subscription anymore because I still have a list of some time periods I hadn't listened to yet, but I have listened on radio and internet for 3-4 years.
You debated Rick Wingrove last night on the topic of atheism. This one always gets me riled with you. Here is the point I would have made last night near the end of the debate for Rick's side:
You claimed that he was overlooking the possibility that sometime in the future something could be proved by science that would show G-d is real. That is where I have a problem. There are some particularly strong atheists that claim it is disprovable, but they should know better, it is very hard to disprove things.
You tried to claim that ever increasingly narrow sliver/trumpet of "the things we don't know yet" for your side.
I would claim "the things we don't know yet may not prove you right" side. As I understand the atheism that atheists.org and the modern movement promotes and that I subscribe to (since birth, I was raised specifically without religion), it is that We Don't Know. That is where we feel such a kinship with science, for the basic tenet of science is We Don't Know, Let's Find Out. I know you have a problem with the proselytization that you see atheism doing, but I feel oppression from you when you say there is no avenue that I can speak out in or organize that you won't insult me with being called a religion. Atheism has been around since the dawn of time, it is only recently that is has been able to make any inroads, and I find your efforts to derail it with labels ironic and self defeating, given what I know about your actual (self-espoused) messages regarding organized religion and science. I think your religious background precludes you from seeing it as many of us do. I have read The Prophet's Way, I understand your spiritual journey, but I don't have to agree with your understanding of it.
I know you think there is an anthropomorphic force in the universe, created or controlled or experienced by you and the rest of humanity/earth/believers/
something... that makes things work out for you or guides you, and that is great for you, and I understand that you try not to proselytize that belief too widely, which I respect immensely.
But Rick Wingrove said it outright, we don't have any tenets, we don't ask you to believe. You ask me to believe at least what I just said, that there is a god that is comprehendible as having humanoid emotions that I could relate to and that it can affect our group perception of the universe in a way that science could test, and that is where I think we get that sliver of the unknown which I labelled "the things we don't know yet". I know we both agree there are things that are yet to be found out, I agree with you people have spiritual experiences and such, but I think it is hard to ascribe what our own spirituality is to everybody around us, such as I hear you doing when you say that I have to admit that I'm just as accepting of poor evidence to believe there isn't an anthropomorphic deity as I would be to believe in it. That is a logical falsehood, there are different burdens of proof for positive proof and negative proof. I will admit there may be proof in the future, but it seems increasingly slim chances of that specific thing being that your solo anthropomorphic deity people have been saying for millenia is the one exact thing we find out. What we find out can be anything, saying you know it and have known it for thousands of years proves that you are not on the "We Don't Know" side, you claim to know a very specific thing, and that is what differentiates atheism from a religion.
Thanks for your Ear,
Love your show and your message (mostly),
Addy