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When I was young, my mother told me that one of the most frightening ways to tell when you live in a fascist, "communist," Nazi, dictatorship, or other totalitarian-type government, is when you see people being told what to think about issues, and how to feel about issues. Then she said, "And the most frightening sign of the downward spiral into a horribly dangerous government, is when people hear or see or read something in the media about how so-and-so is a bad or guilty person, or how such-and-such country 'really needs' invading, and just like that people agree that it has to be true, without any need whatsoever to look at the facts."
And now, as I think back on what she told me, I see she was warning me about the "God said it, I believe it, and that settles it" people, because they are always the ones who think that Jesus wants them to go around the world murdering innocent people- excuse me, I mean slaughtering people who never did anything to us- excuse me, I mean declaring undeclared wars against countries that had nothing to do with 911- excuse me, I mean occupying sovereign nations forever if we feel like it even though if any other country invaded and occupied America for the crimes against humanity that our government and military have committed, they would be outraged beyond belief- excuse me, I mean doing the will of God, who hates everyone except for insane pretend "christians" who disobey every single one of the ten commandments while hating other people for not paying cheap lip service to those same commandments.
Casey who?
Your observation is a worthy one, Thom. I also sypathize with those that commented on the restriction of the press. I believe it was Prof. Einstein who said, "Small minds think about people. Mediocre minds think about events. Great minds think of ideas.". This trial was a good example of the idiocy of the tabloid press. I am hopeful though. Alternative programs, such as yours, and a few others, are gaining traction. We are only in the middle of a long bend in the road. PS: Personally, I think I would be satisfied with Old Canadian law, with the proviso of one station carrying trials, in real time, for all those who are passionate for the law.
Right on the money, Thom. Thanks for speaking my mind.
Leigh , after reading your post, I was thinking about caverine and the red herring you mentioned and got this awful taste in my mouth
Michael I gather you are trying to say the people at large are basically morons, ha ha ha, well I have to agree with that observation. We vote against our best interests all the time and we actually believe the campaign promises, over and over and over. Like the old axiom, ( not verbatim ) ..we repeat previous actions and expect a different result
I agree ... the Media does pretend to be judge and jury ...of course they exist to " fan the flames ".. and if there are no flames to fan .. they will start a fire ...also...it has been my observation that people enjoy the idea of REVENGE.. eventhough it is always futile because no amount of vengence will bring someone back from the dead and if society acts as badly as the killer in their actions, then WE are no better in the end...AKA .. the Death Sentence... Killing is wrong..or is it ? Iraq,Afghanistan,Somalia,Libia,Syria,Vietnam,Korea,etc. it appears that humans have a LOT of vengence to act upon.
A small symptom of a larger problem. How can 12 people be tricked into a verdict that makes no common sense. A mother does not know where her daughter is for 31 days, and is not at least guilty of neglect. Are we no longer capable of critical thought? Of course these are the same people who voted for Rick Scott, need we say more.
My apology's, the interview was with Andrew Krieg, not Don Siegelman.
In today's (7/6/11) interview with Don Siegelman, I believe Thom was correct in suppressing the term TREASON because it over-emphasizes the intent--although the argument can certainly be made--of what has taken place in our country.TREASON is a deliberate over-throw of our constitution and our government. I have groped for some time with what term we should use to properly characterize this subversive intent that those who wish to effect as an extreme re-structuring of our society for personnel benefit is... and I believe that term--which became abundantly clear to me today--is, SEDITION. Sedition is any act, writing, speech, etc., directed unlawfully against state authority, the government, or constitution, or calculated to bring it into contempt or to incite others to hostility, ill will or disaffection; it does not amount to treason and therefore is not a capital offense. The other term I would apply to our present circumstance, which has been willfully perpetrated on "WE THE PEOPLE", would be the term PERDITION. Perdition is the state of final ruin; loss of the soul, DAMNATION; the future state of the wicked. This would aptly describe where we are headed if we do not steer a different course for ourselves.
The article presents an excellent strategy, but for Obama to do it would require him to grow a pair, something he's already demonstrated he's incapable of doing.
I was horrified at the news coverage, especially that of HLN.
The problem with the prosecution was that first they did not prove their case because I think they were caught up in the hype and made them think they had a slam-dunk. Next, they asked for a 1st degree murder charge and let it be known they would ask for the death penalty. I would not have voted her guilty knowing she would be sentenced to death. The death penalty should almost never be used, first because it is misused and innocent people die unjustly. Second, because I really feel that the knowledge that a person who administered the penalty (or thought they might have in the case where more than one person push the buttons (or whatever the means) would be damaging to their soul. Why anyone would make this easier is beyond me because it would have still been intent of each of them to do so. They just did not realize that the threat of sentencing her to death is not something caring people would do.
You are right, Thom, as usual. (Except about the Canadian system; that type of secrecy is not healthy in a democracy, IMHO.) Our justice system was designed to make sure that we only punish people that we know are guilty, not to exact revenge because we think somebody is probably guilty. (Let's leave that to Texas.) This is a perfect test case for the idea that it is better to let a few guilty people go free than to punish any innocent person. If the prosecution screwed up, the onus is on them. I know it's frustrating for people to feel that justice hasn't been done, but the lynch mob that is forming as a result of this verdict scares me a lot more than the possibility that this little girl's murder may go unavenged.
A couple of follow up comments, Thom. Your headline should read "An Evangelical". You know this.
Also, I favored you until this. You really spun this badly. You lost me.
Submitted by leighmf on 6. July 2011 - 4:54 http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/leighmf/blog/2011/07/anthony-jury-decided-correctly. An additional note about cadaverine: I'll never forget my dear old white-haired organic chem professor from Union Carbide saying, "There's nothing in the world that smells like it," and the only place it occurs is dead human flesh. Had there been volatile cadaverine detectable to the nose in the cans, it would have been a simple enough matter to chemically demonstrate the presence of cadaverine, establishing a scientifically proven connection between dead human flesh to the canned air from the car trunk, provided that the protocols for collecting the canned air samples were scientifically correct. Or, the jury could have at least been given a whiff of cadaverine to compare with what was in the cans.
It is one thing for a criminal defense to come up with red herrings with long and winding tails, but once the prosecution starts coming up with bogus exhibits, a jury becomes suspicious, already knowing they have to pass judgement based only on what hasn't been excluded in sidebars and in chambers. XXXXX
Pfffft... what an unfair and incorrect way of debating. Claiming atheism to be a religion or a cult, is like saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby, or like saying that not smoking is an addiction.
Claiming that atheism is a religion or a cult is a completely false argument. It's childish and lacks any logic. It's like one kid who hits another and when mommy tells him it's bad, then he replies: "but he does it too!"
If you'd have even only the vaguest and most basic understanding of what atheism is, you'd know how completely silly, ridiculous and wrong a statement like "atheism is a religion or cult" is.
Maybe there are countless books and movies in which cryptographers inserted important post-World War information which can only be understood now.
I was very disappointed by Hartmann's insistence that atheist organizations are a religion because they are a 501(c)(3) organization. In fact, there are numerous varied organizations with that classification - to wit -
501(c)(3) — Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals Organizations
So according to Hartmann's rather disingenuous logic - (and I bet he knows better), the Special Olympics is a religious organization, as is the SPCA, the Marine Mammal Center, Greenpeace, Doctors without Borders, and many more- all are RELIGIOUS organizations because they hold a 501c3. I expected more from Hartman - an educated man who is sadly, either quite ignorant about atheism, or paradoxically, disinclined to give atheists the same respect he advocates for so many others. We must rebut the prejudiced idea that an atheist is NOT a patriot -- the two are NOT mutually exclusive in the slightest. There ARE millions of atheists in this country and they deserve the same equal treatment as other organizations - not more, but not less, either.
Hartmann has proven, by his wilfull refusal to comprehend what atheists are doing, that it is MANDATORY that we continue to fight for equal rights for us and for all Americans... whatever they believe, whoever they love, whatever the color of their skin, whatever language they speak, whatever their degree of education. Thom Hartmann, I am very saddened by your attitude here.
After reviewing the interview again...
One thing comes to mind immediately...
Thom Hartmann meet Bill O' the clown Reilly {yet another Catholic stooge carrying the water for the pedophile hiding Roman Catholic church}
Bill O'Reilly v. Dave Silverman - You KNOW they're all SCAMS!
http://youtu.be/2BCipg71LbI
"Tide goes in tide comes out, never a miss communication, you can't explain that!!!"
Thom, if you want to have a debate about Catholicism, just let me know, I'm game for that...we can talk about the Ontological Argument, Soteriology, Thanatology, Missiology, the Aristotelian Soul, whatever babe.
Howdy Thom;
Apparenlty you have made this "Atheism is a Religion" your little personal crusade...is that on orders from the Pope?
"As a result of a book on spirituality, The Prophet's Way, he was invited in 1998 to meet Pope John Paul II."
You even called the Roman Catholic church "one of the great religions of the world"...really?
Quite the missionary you are for the catholic church...because after all the church needs to be defended right? Not only that but you need to misrepresent the facts, and spread misinformation through your propagandizing, which you most readily use your media platform to spew your misinformation. What do you get out of this practice I wonder?
Especially the lack of professionalism...I mean you invited an atheist onto your show to talk about the Atheist banners, and then you decide that was a waste of time i guess? Instead you spend the whole time grilling an atheist about "atheism is just another religion" something that your subjective will power will try to push on everyone else. Just b/c you're convinced of your subjective bullshit, doesn't mean you have to rub it in everyone elses' face.
Mr. Thom Hartmann, Atheism is to religion like BALD is to Hair Color.
"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it's a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."- Benjamin Franklin
Just as I am always surprised to meed an atheist who is a republican, I am likewise surprised to meet a liberal/progressive who is a papal apologist. I know they exist - I just don't get it.
I don't listen to Thom a lot, though i have always given him credit for smarts. But even the smartest people can't be well informed on every subject. And Thom displayed stunningly shallow depth on the subject of atheism, resorting to the childish argument that atheism is a religion. The psuedo-scientific "radio waves" argument he tried to employ also displayed a thin understanding of Science and its implications for religion in general.
Seriously Thom, the catholic church may not be the best place to get your Science but it is certainly the right place to pick up some hate, bigotry, and misinformation about Atheists. Just remember, the Catholics hunted atheists with dogs for most of the last 2000 years and have built a religion spreading the phony and deadly lie that atheists are the worst and lowest type of people, degenerate and amoral, and unworthy of kindness or consideration.
Thom, If you want to know about Atheism, ask an Atheist. But if you merely want to use your platform to spread the lies of an organization that is responsible for the death and torture of millions, and which protects its priest/rapists before their victims, you should maybe look up the meaning of the word progressive. It may not mean what you think it means.
This is awful! It is terrorism! If this were American Citizens caught in some foreign country, we would be demandinng our government to get the realeased. The sheriff, the governor, elected State legislatures, etc. should all be held accountable. I bet if the ACLU had more money they would intercede.
lol, "putting down the tenets of their belief system, assembling institutions and heirarchy, and collecting money... just like all the other organized religions..."
Or just like any other... social network... seeing it as an "organized" religion is like seeing a banana as a divinely inspired food... a total failure to comprehend basic science (social science in the former, food science in the latter).
I guess Masons are an organized religion as well. So are girl scouts and boy scouts. Oh yeah... tupperware and Pampered Chef, as well as Avon sellers are in an organized religion too. Firefighters and police officer fraternities are organized religions also according to Thom's logic. So are high-school/college student-body organizations. Your state bar association, Sure! National knitting association? yup!
:-) nice try Thom...
Thom - - This is off topic, but regarding your discussion at the beginning of yesterday's show about a balanced budget amendment not necessarily being a good thing, please see this excellent article by Prof. John Harvey correcting common fallacies about federal budget deficits being bad:
http://blogs.forbes.com/johntharvey/2011/07/02/learn-to-love-the-deficit/
Prof. Harvey is a Post-Keynesian economist with an understanding of MMT (Modern Monetary Theory). See also this article by MMT economist Prof. Stephanie Kelton entitled, "What Happens When the Government Tightens Its Belt" : http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-happens-when-government-tightens.html
There are a lot of points to jump on... but let's start at the beginning - Created another church?
Hmm.. no, not even close. Atheists don't meet to praise something. Atheists don't have gods. Atheists do not give tithe. Atheists do not worship. If anything, new atheism has provided a social network to replace churches. Churches are social networks, so are atheist groups. They are parallel in so much as being a group of people with similar ideas, not much else.
Basically this is that part of associative logic Thom must've failed. If all bops are boodles, and all beeps are boodles, is it logical to say that beeps are bops? No. All you can derive is that bops and beeps are boodles.
Churches are all social networks, or organizations.
Atheist groups are all social networks, or organizations.
You might as well say Churches are just older atheist organizations... lol
Way to fail at logic bro.