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Nels,
Zero G. DOES have wonderful links. He's amazing sometimes...
This has to be at least ONE of the most disgusting foods commercially available:
http://www.boingboing.net/200809101238.jpg
LOL!
Aww Zero G. how nice of you to provide me such cool links, I feel bad that I didn't get you anything now. Can't wait to wade into the Chomsky link.
N
Yeah, I know fascism. Mexican is the Jew in this country.
What farmwork in Appalachia? Haven't you heard? Appalachia is coal mining country.
Nels,
Back in 1975 I spent a few weeks on a one cow, hippie farm in rural Virginia...I didn't see any Mexicans. The Blue Ridge Mountains covered in snow were beautiful though.
Remembering Fascism: Learning From the Past
Tuesday 20 April 2010
by: Noam Chomsky, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed
Rober S:
Alright, so where did you copy-and-paste that from? Obviously, you miss the point of it: Why would the "natives" take those jobs? And why would immigrants take those jobs? And again you ignore the micro and macro economics of it all. I have already told you the hypocritical excuses as to why "real" Americans who make outrageous demands won't do the work. It's unfun work--to some people. Most Mexicans who work in these jobs have done farm work their entire lives, unlike the indolent "natives" who probably need the excercise. And let's not forget that the low-income, no benefits description that you posted can be applied to most industrial park jobs that the natives do work in.
For those of you haven't read anything or want to read something really, I mean really good, about what has happened the last 30 years, read Cornered by Barry Lynn. This book next to In The Jaw of the Dragon, are must reads for the everyday citizen..........Our liberty is at stake because the laws from the Second New Deal, that protected the small businessman and worker have been coopted by Milton Friedman's, "Free Market" fraud. The Federalists have won the day but haven't won the war, yet, if we fight back by letting our Congress and President know we will not support them if they are Free Traders that support NAFTA and the WTO.
@Zero G., and all those farm workers are only Mexican, even in Appalachia?
Those bacon wrapped wonders do lots to improve my production rate too. ;-)
Oh Jesus -
Farmworker Demographics
There are two to three million farmworkers in the United States. Nearly 80 % are male, and most are younger than 31 years of age. Most farmworkers are married and/or have children, but most live apart from their immediate family members as a function of their employment.
While the federal government has estimated that the average annual income of farmworkers is a mere $11,000 , that estimate is actually quite high because it includes higher paid workers, such as crewleaders. A scholar studying farmworkers has said:
"Seasonal farmworkers are the poorest laborers in the United States, earning an average of $6500 per year. Farmworkers who migrate are poorer than settled seasonal laborers, with migrants earning $5,000 per year. The most vulnerable migrant workers, such as those laboring for farm labor contractors in eastern states, earn annual wages as low as $3500."
Piece-rate workers are generally paid by the bucket—in tomatoes, as little as 40 to 45 cents per bucket (a bucket is 32 pounds of tomatoes). At that rate, farmworkers have to pick around two tons of produce (125 buckets) to earn 50 dollars. The piece rate wages paid to tomato workers have not changed significantly in more than twenty years. In addition, workers reported that there is wide uniformity in the wages paid by tomato growers.
Migrant farmworkers are very poor, and they receive very few social benefits. Less than 1 % of farmworkers receive general assistance welfare, and only 2% receive Social Security benefits.
Farmworkers have long periods of unemployment, and most do not receive any form of pay, including unemployment compensation, during those periods. Crop workers are employed in the U.S. an average of 34 1/2 weeks (66%) of the year.
By the time a migrant farmworker child is 12 years old, he or she may work in the fields between 16-18 hours per week, leaving little time for school work.
Farmworker Health and Safety
Agriculture is consistently rated as one of the most dangerous occupations in the United States. Farmworkers suffer from the highest rate of toxic chemical injuries and skin disorders of any workers in the country. The children of migrant farmworkers have higher rates of pesticide exposure, malnutrition, and dental disease than the general population. Children of migrant farmworkers are also less likely to be immunized against disease.
@Maxrot: We know.
I export natural gas all the time.
@herBreckness: are you related to Tex. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison? She's the original "Breck Girl" according to Molly Ivins. :D
Robert S.
Oh, jesus. During WWII, when there was a shortage of workers, the U.S. instituted the bracero program, which brought in Mexicans to work the fields. When the soldiers came back, with their GI Bill, they thought there was a better life for themselves, and there was. High-paying middle class jobs exploded soon after the war. Although the bracero program ended, there was no great rush to fill those jobs by the natives. Some growers were forced to use indigents and drunks for the work, but they proved incapable of sustained work. Even Hippies looking to get back to nature were employed, but naturally they got bored with the work. Eventually, growers were forced to allow undocumented workers to do what they needed done.
"I am known by many names" - Theodore Bikel in Zappa's 200 Motels
@Mark K. aka constans1, Robert S. is aka Zero G. and you have been addressing him directly.
Nels,
Prostitution is only another form of wage labor.
Zero G was "talking" to me? I wasn't paying attention. I wouldn't have mattered anyways. I live in a different world than he--or most of you--live in. Maybe you just don't want to know what kind of world that is.
Constans1, that sounds like an argument against free-trade agreements. But since you mentioned Steinbeck, certainly the migration of Americans to California during the dust bowl era, shows that there is nothing about the work itself that Americans wouldn't do, given reasonable wages/conditions. We have seen in my lifetime, the demise of most family farms. Back when I was in grade school, the urban/rural population was supposed to be about 50/50 at least according to the textbooks.
Yeah, Thom, you think merely by turning back NAFTA will bring back middle class jobs? Now who is being naive about the world here? You are employing just another empty talking point.
@Zero G, and Mark K. your conversation reminds me of a old joke:
A man goes up to an attractive woman and asks would she sleep with him for a million dollars? She says sure she would. Then the man replies, would she sleep with him for a dollar? Indignant she says "What kind of woman do you think I am?" The man replies, "well we've already established that, I'm just trying to negotiate the price now."
(Sorry for the vulgarity ladies, just fits their conversation.)
N
If NAFTA were revoked, I would really begin to feel optimistic about our future.
Robert S:
Again, as I said here several times before, these issues go way back. They were addressed in Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath," in Edward R. Murrow's documentary "Harvest of Shame," as well as by the United Farm Workers Union founded by Cesar Chavez. People never made any money in these migratory jobs; they were subsistance level at best. The agribusinesses, as I am forced to mention again, have to compete with cheap imported produce, particularly from Asia, just like almost every industry in this country has to. Again I have to tell the story of how at a community meeting, one anti-immigrant bigot told a farmer that he would be willing to pick vegetables all day in the hot sun--for $30-an-hour. He was obviously not making a serious proposal, but offering an excuse as to why he wouldn't do this work.
@Nels,
No it mostly decried the fact that members of the progressive caucus, namely Lynn Woolsey, Henry Waxman, John Conyers, were supporting Harman over Winograd.