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chuckle8 ~ "Scare the populace", huh? Tell that to my niece who recently got dinged over $500 for rolling a red light on a right turn under one of those "scare the populace" red light cameras. Yeah, I'm sure she is volunteering for community service for six months as a "scare tactic." The truth is that Sacramento is full of a bunch of venomous vipers. If you really think that they are acting in the best interest of the state then I have a bridge to sell you. It's old, but it sure is pretty. It spans between San Francisco and the Marin headlands. It's yellow in color and you can have it--if you act now, for the low, low price of $19.99 down. I'll sign it over to you right now and we can work out the rest of the payment options at your leisure. Of course, this is not a scare tactic. Are you game?
DAnneMarc: Yes, she is....and I was a bit worried that she might have been on that MH-17 flight only because she has been doing a lot of traveling to perform.
Did you know that Ukraine moved their own Buk missile launchers into the Eastern conflict area prior to the shoot down? Perhaps it was in preparation to shoot down any Russian military jets that Russia might send in to fight the Ukrainians.... or perhaps it was for the purpose of shooting down an airliner so they could blame it on the Russians and/or the separatists.
It was most likely the Russians who shot down the Ukrainian military jets. The separatists most likely would not have had the training. As for the MH-17 airliner, there would be absolutely no reason for the Russians or the separatists to want to shoot it down. That just wouldn't make any sense at all. However, Ukraine had a big reason to want to shoot it down. They wanted to pin it on the Russians and the separatists in a war of propaganda that they knew would be backed up by the US and other Nato countries.
It wasn't Rusia or the separatists who had MH-17 deviate from the normal safe flight path into the war zone...it was the Ukrainian air traffic controllers that did that.
Palindromedary ~ Thank you so much for that heads up. That little child is certainly a wonder indeed!!
mstaggerlee ~ VERY, very, WELL SAID!! And if I might be so bold in reading you, may I also add, "Muchas Garcias!!"
DAM -- Why don't you like the explanation that the same people who shot down the Ukranian cargo planes in the last week shot down the Malaysian airliner? They just mistakenly thought it was another cargo plane. If they just used the radar on the rocket launcher, it would be hard to distinquish the airliner from a cargo plane. I am not saying this is what happended. I am just saying whoever came up with this explanation came up with a story that fits all the commonly accepted information.
catman306 -- Of course, the melting ice will only keep it down for a little time until the ice all melts
catman306 -- You know that they (sceintists) say that 2/3 of the sea level rise will be due to thermal expansion, not melting ice. As a matter of fact, melting ice should keep the sea level down because it will prevent thermal expansion.
DAM -- I think the fine system has been in place since January. Do you know of anyone that has been fined? I do not believe they would even have to fine someone 10 cents. I think if the police went around and handed out warning tickets the problem could be solved. Of course, it is very expensive to have police going around and knocking on doors; having a grocery clerk asking for 10 cents is cheap.
I thought the $500 fine thing, was the water resources board trying asking the media to scare the populace.
Sven -- I thought I already replied but I can't find it. In any case, thanks for the links. It seems we can have a lot of interesting discussions based on these 5 pages out of 1500.
Sven Mills and Palindromedary ~ A collapsed pingo makes a lot of sense to me. If you look closely at the helicopter fly by in the video at this link:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/opinions-divided-over-mysterious-80metre-wide-crater-in-northern-siberia-20140716-ztqvi.html
You will notice extensive carved groove patterns in the circumference of the rim of the hole. I believe that these grooves are consistent with glacier movement. Of course, this does not explain the debris field in the perimeter. Whatever happened, I'm sure, has envolved something in addition to a simple collapsed pingo.
Aliceinwonderland ~ Well said! I agree!
Oh, you mean Fox Farts? Definitely contaminating the airwaves!
DAnneMarc: Yes, I read it too. Still no credible explanation as to why the MH-17 changed course to fly over a war zone when the other airliners on the same day didn't change course.
SCOTUS, as you say, isn't reppresentative of govenerment but quite the opposite.
How about brain farts, Palin? Are those soiling the atmosphere? Or maybe just contaminating the public airwaves...
Palindromedary ~ Why from the very "Global Research" link you posted above. I checked back on the link to read it again yesterday and it had that update posed right under the title.
My friends, it seems to me that the most mysterious sort of hole is the kind often found in the heads of some humans. It truly is pathological.
I think farting cows and melting ice caps are the cause of a lot of the CO2 in our atmosphere. Methane, so I'm told, turns into water and CO2. Maybe if people ate more vegetables and cut out meat in their diets we could save the earth. ;-}
Sven Mills: I don't know how you can say: "...just take a look at the area on Google Earth - such forms are a standard feature of the landscape."
The satellite image on Google Earth is not very clear...the resolution is not as good as it is, say, in a city. Yes, certainly, there are a lot of what looks like ponds or lakes but not necessarily "holes". The video of the men lowering a camera down the hole shows some water at the bottom. Maybe all those ponds or lakes once were holes like the one in the video, who knows? Probably the people that work at that gas plant might know.
I have tried to find that hole based on the reports that it is located some 30km from the gas plant. No indications was given as to which direction except to say that the hole was located at the edge of a forest. I could not even see a forest anyway. I staked out a perimeter, using Google thumb tacks, at a distance of 30km from the plant in all directions and searched that perimeter. The photos show a small lake near the hole and I tried to find lakes about that size and shape but I finally had to give up because I wasn't getting anywhere.
Most plausible explanation would seem to be a collapsed pingo, but just take a look at the area on Google Earth - such forms are a standard feature of the landscape.
While you're at it, checkout the USCRN data set that shows not only no warming of the contiguous US states in the last decade, but a net cooling.
Take a look at the Hadley Centre's Central UK HADCET dataset that shows a cooling trend in UK winters over the last 20 or so years.
Take a look at spaceweather.com for current solar activity then look at solar cycles and their effect on climate.
Take a look at work on the thermohaline cycle, Pacific and Atlantic Multi-Decadal Oscillation, cloud cover, deforestation and regreening, and effect on climate.
Take a look at the Urban Heat Island Effect and how thermometers have been affected, throwing doubt on the datasets themselves (although the USCRN network has been set up to minimise such issues)
Then take a look at global CO2 emissions year by year and match against global temp variance since 2000 and see if you still believe that CO2 emissions are the main driver of temperature.
www.lmgtfy.com would have found all the info you request, but okay:
http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/mindex.shtml
No need to read the full report. A keyword search finds notable points easily enough.
This should be read in the context of additional info garnered from multiple locations confirming no inc in average global temps, extreme weather events, wild fires, droughts, etc, etc....
WG1AR5 - Chapter 2, pp213-220
You would no doubt suggest I was cherry picking, however the majority of this section seems to be "... there seems to be.... but there is no clear trend. In summary, there is low confidence...."
A critical reading reveals huge uncertainties and low confidence in trends.
For example, but not exclusively:
Pg 214, 2.6.2.2 Floods:- "In summary, there continues to be a lack of evidence and thus low confidence regarding the sign of trend in the magnitude and/or frequency of floods on a global scale."
Pg 215, 2.6.2.3 Droughts: "In summary, the current assessment concludes that there is not enough evidence at present to suggest more than low confidence in a global-scale observed trend in drought or dryness (lack of rainfall) since the middle of the 20th century, owing to lack of direct observations, geo-graphical inconsistencies in the trends, and dependencies of inferred trends on the index choice. Based on updated studies, AR4 conclusions regarding global increasing trends in drought since the 1970s were probably overstated. However, it is likely that the frequency and inten- sity of drought has increased in the Mediterranean and West Africa and decreased in central North America and north-west Australia since 1950."
Pg 216 2.6.2.4 Severe Local Weather Events: "In summary, there is low confidence in observed trends in small-scale severe weather phenomena such as hail and thunderstorms because of historical data inhomogeneities and inadequacies in monitoring systems."
Pg 217 2.6.3 Tropical Storms: "In summary, this assessment does not revise the SREX conclusion of low confidence that any reported long-term (centennial) increases in tropical cyclone activity are robust, after accounting for past changes in observing capabilities. More recent assessments indicate that it is unlikely that annual numbers of tropical storms, hurricanes and major hurricanes counts have increased over the past 100 years in the North Atlantic basin. Evidence, however, is for a virtually certain increase in the frequency and intensity of the strongest tropical cyclones since the 1970s in that region."
Pg 220 2.6.4 Extratropical Storms: "In summary, confidence in large scale changes in the intensity of extreme extratropical cyclones since 1900 is low. There is also low confidence for a clear trend in storminess proxies over the last century due to inconsistencies between studies or lack of long-term data in some parts of the world (particularly in the SH). Likewise, confidence in trends in extreme winds is low, owing to quality and consistency issues with analysed data."
Pg 219 "FAQ 2.2, Figure 2 summarizes some of the observed changes in climate extremes. Overall, the most robust global changes in climate extremes are seen in measures of daily temperature, including to some extent, heat waves. Precipitation extremes also appear to be increasing, but there is large spatial variability, and observed trends in droughts are still uncertain except in a few regions. While robust increases have been seen in tropical cyclone fre- quency and activity in the North Atlantic since the 1970s, the reasons for this are still being debated. There is limited evidence of changes in extremes associated with other climate variables since the mid-20th century."
Pg 217 -"In most cases, therefore wind speed or storminess proxies are derived from in situ pressure measurements or reanalyses data, the quality and consistency of which vary. In situ observations indicate no clear trends over the past century or longer....."
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Compare with NOAA data that shows greater numbers of cat 3 and above Hurricanes 1950-1970.
Named Cyclones By Year - http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/#ncy
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I have no need to try and convince, evidence (and the lack thereof), data, critical thinking and common sense all point to major issues with the alleged consensus on AGW.
Although, I keep thinking about how all those smoke stacks, starting at the beginning of the industrial age, belched black soot and tars into the sky. Factories, trains, even our homes were all belching black smoke into the atmosphere. It is nothing like that, in most of the US now. There are a few places that may sometimes come close like China or Mexico, probably elsewhere as well, but I don't think it is anything like what it used to be. Yes, there are a lot more people, cars, jets, rockets, and wind-bag politicians now than then but most homes do not pollute the atmosphere with thick black coal burning or wood burning stoves. We either use gas or electricity and some use alternative energy sources. Energy plants are regulated and I don't see any of them belching thick black smoke like they used to.
This is not to say that I don't believe that Global warming and climate change is happening.
In the 2010 mid-term election, 37% of eligible voters voted for their US Representatives, per the US Census. That is wretched and it let the Tea Party in. No wonder we get shafted. We aren't voting and we are just giving the elections to the GOP.I would like someone in the know to let me know why so many eligible poor voters don't vote. I know many have just given up on politics. It is said everywhere I have read that the more people who vote the better it is for Democrats. What is stopping the Democratic Leaders from hiring a virtual army of people who need jobs to register, ID and transport people to vote? I think they can come up with the money if they didn't waste it on TV ads, and other mechanisms which don't work for midterm elections. I find it curious they have never done this because it would virtually put the GOP out of business and the people back in business. Would some sophisticated, knowledgeable person please tell me explicitly why the Dems have not accomplished this?
Up yours, smart ass. I must have told you at least four times that I am not a bloody scientist, yet you persist in mocking me for not stating my case with “scientific precision”. Whatever, Mr. Mills. I hide behind no false pretense. Therefore you are grasping at nothing, seemingly out of some desperate need to win arguments.
I believe I explained myself more than adequately. The basis of my argument is that I listen to those experts who I judge to be most credible AND the least beholden to corporate interests. That’s a far cry from basing an argument on “typos in other conversations”.
I know your game. You can’t get folks here to climb onboard, to accept your point of view, so then comes the sarcasm! Fire away, asshole, if it makes you feel better. But you’ve failed to convince us of anything, and no amount of bullying and sophomoric mud slinging is going to change that. I suggest you step back, chill out awhile, get a grip and accept the fact that some folks just aren’t going to agree with you.
Can’t handle that? Too bad for you. It will simply have to be your problem. So have a lovely summer, and tah-tah. This conversation is over now. - Aliceinwonderland