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Thom you need to repeat our mantra. Breaking the stranglehold of the monopolies needs movetoamend.org
AIW -- Thanks for the info. My concern would be if co-ops become large with a significant number of employees that Walmart would use their monopolistic power to squash them.
The right people making the right movies such as Brave new Films; could educate people about the dire possibilities of climate change and all other selfish behavior; maybe will sway public opinion onto the right tract.
BATTLE CRY AGAINST THE TPP
WHERE have all the good jobs gone?
long time passing.
WHERE have all the good jobs gone?
long time ago.
WHERE have all the good jobs gone?
corporations ship them every one.
WHEN will they ever learn?
WHEN will we ever learn?
From http://www.einsteinandreligion.com/index.html
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer.
— Albert Einstein in Goldman, p. vii
You find it strange that I consider the comprehensibility of the world (to the extent that we are authorized to speak of such a comprehensibility) as a miracle or an eternal mystery. Well a priori one should expect a chaotic world which cannot be grasped by the mind in anyway. One could (yes one should) expect the world to be subjected to law only to the extent that we order it through our intelligence. Ordering of this kind would be like the alphabetical ordering of the words of a language. By contrast, the kind of order created by Newton's theory of gravitation, for instance, is wholly different. Even if the axioms of the theory are proposed by man, the success of such a project presupposes a high degree of ordering of the objective world, and this could not be expected a priori. That is the "miracle" which is being constantly re-enforced as our knowledge expands.
There lies the weaknesss of positivists and professional atheists who are elated because they feel that they have not only successfully rid the world of gods but "bared the miracles." (That is, explained the miracles. - ed.) Oddly enough, we must be satisfied to acknowledge the "miracle" without there being any legitimate way for us to approach it . I am forced to add that just to keep you from thinking that --weakened by age--I have fallen prey to the clergy …
— From a letter to Maurice Solovine; see Goldman, p. 24
In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human understanding, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.
— to Prince Hubertus zu Löwenstein, Towards the Further Shore (Victor Gollancz, London, 1968), p. 156; quoted in Jammer, p. 97
I was barked at by numerous dogs who are earning their food guarding ignorance and superstition for the benefit of those who profit from it. Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is of the same kind as the intolerance of the religious fanatics and comes from the same source. They are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against the traditional "opium of the people"—cannot bear the music of the spheres. The Wonder of nature does not become smaller because one cannot measure it by the standards of human moral and human aims.
— Einstein to an unidentified adressee, Aug.7, 1941. Einstein Archive, reel 54-927, quoted in Jammer, p. 97
The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive. However, I am also not a "Freethinker" in the usual sense of the word because I find that this is in the main an attitude nourished exclusively by an opposition against naive superstition. My feeling is insofar religious as I am imbued with the consciousness of the insuffiency of the human mind to understand deeply the harmony of the Universe which we try to formulate as "laws of nature." It is this consciousness and humility I miss in the Freethinker mentality. Sincerely yours, Albert Einstein.—Letter to A. Chapple, Australia, February 23, 1954; Einstein Archive 59-405; also quoted in Nathan and Norden, Einstein on Peace P. 510
You might also want to look at this reference where Einstein explicitly denies being an atheist.
Einstein was an agnostic not an atheist.
Marc, I do not think that "invited guests" is a fair or accurate way to characterize Mexican immigrants and why they are here. Seems to me that much of what you've just said contradicts more than supports Ken's argument, since all he does is diss "illegals" while you at least acknowledge who's actually to blame. It's really all about NAFTA, not about these mean old Mexicans out to steal our jobs. Dumping on "illegals" doesn't resolve diddily squat anyway, Marc. We need to recognize that politicians and law-breaking employers caused this problem, and focus on holding them accountable. It is they who are attacking labor, devaluing labor with anti-labor policies, thus making workers dispensible and everyone's future less certain. If employers stop hiring "illegals", it illiminates their incentive to come here looking for work. The Mexicans are only trying to compensate for jobs dried up by NAFTA in their own country. Reverse NAFTA's policies and they might even have jobs to return home to! But of course, it's so much easier to target the victims instead of actually fixing the problem. I've heard my fill of KW's rants against Mexicans, thank you. Enough already.
Whether KW is racist is not something I want to waste time arguing about, Marc. I'm well aware of the fact that you and I don't see eye-to-eye where Ken Ware is concerned. You think KW adds something valuable to our discussions, which I'll admit he does on occasion. But he still acts like a bully and a troll the rest of the time. I hate how Ken comes barging in here outa nowhere, when he's in his troll mode, putting Thom down, complaining about us, insulting people and bitching about this blog, all in such broad strokes... I happen to think the blog is much nicer without him. I also believe there are times you kiss up to Ken, which annoys the hell out of me. Up 'til now I've censored myself over this, Marc, not wishing to start discord between us. Now that you've opened this can of worms, however, I'll be frank with you. I don't like it. Now, I'll acknowledge that you're your own free agent, that you will do whatever your spirit moves you to do. But for you to carry on as if Ken can be expected to engage with people here in a reasonably civil manner, instead of just being a dick, is simply naïve on your part. This very dynamic is what got me frustrated enough to vacate the blog last March.
Don't worry my friend, I've no intention of leaving now. I'm having too much fun here. Damned if I'll let that asshole spoil it for me again. I'll just have to be careful from here on, not to let KW provoke me, so that I'm not ensnared in his petty drama, pulled down to his level anymore. I needn't let KW suck up so much of the time and energy I spend on this forum. That's not what I'm here for, folks. I'm here to engage with people, to discuss the serious issues of our time, to learn from others as well as speak my mind. I like the stimulation and challenges a good blog has to offer me. Helps me keep my sanity in these crazy times. I keep reminding myself, KW only spoils that for me with my permission, regardless of whether it was knowingly granted in the first place.
One way to deal with the KWs of the world, and the shit they dish out, is to just rise above and beyond it until we've "starved the beast", or he goes off looking to stir up shit someplace else. Far as I'm concerned, Marc, people like that are nothing but speed bumps in the road of life. - Aliceinwonderland
Chuckle8, when one co-op defeats the other, after the merger, they can be one big, happy co-op.
And Palin - and all similar atheists and naturalists, pointing to places where the supernatural is not has nothing to do with where it is. It seems you'd rather set up a straw man you can easily knock down than fight the real one. It's as if on some level you know - or fear - you're wrong.
>:^) Night, night
Palin, atheists who deny that their beliefs are also religious remind me of the fundamentalist, evangelical Christians who used to like to say, "Oh, I'm not religious, I'm a Christian." I guess they meant, "I'm not religious, I'm right." or some such.
Atheism is religious in that it is a belief or set or system of beliefs regarding the nature of existence and the cosmos and/or the supernatural and an attempt to define them. That the atheist definition is more nihilistic is irrelevant to that.
Many undisputedly religious belief systems hold minimal or close to no - if not, indeed, no - affirmation of the existence supernatural phenomena - or leastways are unconcerned about any. Examples of these would be Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism.
And atheists certainly posess the same passionate cathexis and even fanatical obsession with their beliefs as any religious and that brings me to the next point, that religion, as a psycho social phenomenon, is indistinguishable in most significant and essential ways from ideology. I'd like to thus refer you to an article I reproduced from a very good anarchist journal called Modern Slavery and posted on my member blog that says it all about that. http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/mark-saulys/blog/2013/11/ideology-and-...
The anthropologist Clifford Geertz defined religion as a "system of symbols which acts to establish powerful, pervasive, and long-lasting moods and motivations in men by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality that the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic."
The sociologist Durkheim, in his seminal book The Elementary Forms of the Religious Life, defined religion as a "unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things".[28] By sacred things he meant things "set apart and forbidden—beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a Church, all those who adhere to them". Sacred things are not, however, limited to gods or spirits.[note 2] On the contrary, a sacred thing can be "a rock, a tree, a spring, a pebble, a piece of wood, a house, in a word, anything can be sacred".[29] Religious beliefs, myths, dogmas and legends are the representations that express the nature of these sacred things, and the virtues and powers which are attributed to them.[30]
In his book The Varieties of Religious Experience, the psychologist William James defined religion as "the feelings, acts, and experiences of individual men in their solitude, so far as they apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine".[31] By the term "divine" James meant "any object that is godlike, whether it be a concrete deity or not"[32] to which the individual feels impelled to respond with solemnity and gravity.[33]
Echoes of James' and Durkheim's definitions are to be found in the writings of, for example, Frederick Ferré who defined religion as "one's way of valuing most comprehensively and intensively".[34] Similarly, for the theologian Paul Tillich, faith is "the state of being ultimately concerned",[35] which "is itself religion. Religion is the substance, the ground, and the depth of man's spiritual life."[36] Friedrich Schleiermacher in the late 18th century defined religion as das schlechthinnige Abhängigkeitsgefühl, commonly translated as "a feeling of absolute dependence".[37] His contemporary Hegel disagreed thoroughly, defining religion as "the Divine Spirit becoming conscious of Himself through the finite spirit."[38]
When religion is seen in terms of "sacred", "divine", intensive "valuing", or "ultimate concern", then it is possible to understand why scientific findings and philosophical criticisms (e.g. Richard Dawkins) do not necessarily disturb its adherents.[39]
Anyway Palin, I think your atheists are just doing as the evangelical Christian fundamentalists I mentioned above and simply insubstantially narrowing your definition of "religious" to exclude any beliefs or sets of beliefs that you hold.
There is ample evidence for the supernatural but religious fanatics are unconcerned with evidence.
Chuck, unless one lives in the big city, it's probably not too common to see cooperatives competing against each other. They're still not as mainstream as that. In the small Oregon town where I live, Bi-Mart is the one local worker-owned cooperative I can name, and they seem to be thriving. They've been here well over twenty years now, even managing to co-exist with Walmart. Nothing to sneeze at. - AIW
I certainly agree with you, DAnnemarc!
Alex Collier 14 Years After The Ground Breaking 1994 Interview
This is almost 2 hours long. I watched the first 30 minutes. It starts off with Alex and the interviewer being kind of silly...they were obviously drinking. And in that silliness it kind of sounded like they were slighting socialism and the government and government's control over us...sounded more like the talk of right wingers. But then they settled down, not smiling and laughing, and Alex got serious. He really didn't say much about aliens in that first 30 minutes but was talking more about personal responsibility and that WE, the people, let things get the way they are now. He did say something about JFK..said he never has mentioned this to anyone before...but I don't remember what it was. Then he talked about how Carter and Clinton both tried to get information on the aliens and they wouldn't let them because they did not have the classification of "need to know". Makes you wonder who is really in charge. More evidence that there is a covert government in control of our just-pretend government. It was kind of difficult understanding some of the things he was saying...the drinking, perhaps? I'll have to watch the rest later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awIYPKZSvR4
Ain't it the truth. Amen. - AIW
Aliceinwonderland ~ Thank you. I'm so glad you enjoyed the story of His Honor. Quite a guy indeed. If I could accomplish 1/4 of what he did I would be so happy with life.
Concerning lizard people you can also go to YouTube and look for interviews with a gentleman named Alex Collier. Collier claims to have been a abductee from a group of extraterrestrials who identify themselves as The Andromeda Council. In a nutshell (please pardon the pun) The Andromeda Council are composed of evolved humanoids from different star systems. They claim to be fourth dimensional and are benevolent. They are old enemies of the lizard people; who are a race of reptilian humanoids from the Zeta Reticuli star system. The lizards are also fourth dimensional. It is the fourth dimensional physics of their natural state of being that allows them to shape shift. The lizard people hate humans and only consider them useful as slaves and food.
This story, which is semi-collaborated by another self appointed abductee who goes by the name of Tolec, basically claims that humans and lizards have been at war for some time--thousands of years. Only recently humans have gained the upper hand and are currently ridding our planet of the lizard influence that has plague mankind all throughout history. It is claimed that lizards have infiltrated and interbreeding with the elite on this planet in order to form a ruling class (ie. The Illuminati.) Personally, it would be hard to argue that anyone in the Bush administration wasn't a lizard. They were certainly all cold blooded. According to the tale the humans are winning the war and soon we will be free from the lizard threat to live our lives freely as we were intended to do naturally.
Pros: The story matches and explains all manner of religious lore and mythological symbolism in a way I've never seen any other hypothesis do. (The ancient Serpent in the garden of Eden was actually the lizard people.) The story also explains all manner of paranormal and ET activity that can no otherwise be explained in relation to each other or with respect to religion. Basically, the story explains everything in our culture that we can't explain. The story also has a certain degree of scientific and factual credibility as Palindromedary commented. Perhaps most insidious of all it explains why mankind has engaged in warfare throughout history. In doing so it comforts the minds of those who can't accept war. According to the story, humans have been manipulated by the lizards to engage in war as entertainment for the lizards.
Cons: The story tends to lead the believer into a potentially threatening and self-defeating state of complacency. One tends to perceive that all their problems are being taken care of for them from a benevolent super species that has their best interest at heart. Therefore, all they have to do is sit back and wait. Because of this obvious natural result of human behavior from this hypothesis it is reasonable to believe that this story is nothing more than old fashioned COINTELPRO and psychological warfare on steroids. It has the very uncomfortable almost tranquilizing effect of telling people everything they want to hear. Just like a bedtime story you tell a child so they can go to sleep. For this reason I would strongly suggest approaching it with extreme caution. (ie. Don't buy it. Insist on proof.)
There is literally so much BS out there that it is almost impossible to see the forest for the trees.
Don't try this at home, Kids! The stunts in this film are not done by professionals. Actually, the video made me a bit dizzy! Nothing like just hanging around on a nice day!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WCSN4jR7a3k
I bought the video Zeitgeist and watched it a few times. I liked it.
I had gone to a few UFO conferences but finally gave that up. Nothing but milking people for their money. And then you lose out on the other "teaser" lectures. You pay more money than they are worth just to get in to see teaser lectures and they try to get you to pay even more money to attend what they call ..."workshops"....duh! maybe they even have you make little UFOs out of Play Dough? I don't know, I've never bitten the hook. ;-} "Workshops"!? Ha!
I suspect this is the same way they do it for the so-called conspiracy conferences...which I've never gone to. There is just so much BS out there all to get your money.
Aliceinwonderland: No, I used to live in San Jose and traveled to Oakland a number of times...mostly to Jack London Square. I really liked that place. I also had a sail boat in Alemeda..bay side..for a few years. I camped out in my boat over the week end a number of times and often reading Jack London. Sailing the bay was fun but kind of scarey at times...all adding to the fun of sailing. I sailed around Angel Island and out the Golden Gate Bridge and back. It really got scarey just outside of the GG Bridge...whirlpools. I built a 22 foot fiberglass pocket cruiser sailboat which I sailed for a few years in the Monterey Bay..had my boat in a dry storage area and launched it at Moss Landing when ever I went sailing. Then I bought a 36 foot sailboat and had it docked in Alemeda. It was fun but I am no longer into sailing...or building boats. Working in Fiberglass has it's challenges...itch..itch!
Now, of course, I am living in Semipalatinsk (or just Semey)...;-}
Thanks Palin, for answering my question about so-called "lizard people". I had a vague idea that was it, but needed just a little more clarity.
"I wonder if," PD says, "by mixing a little bit of truth (that the ruling elite are creating wars to gain profit from them) isn't purposely being mixed with some pretty wild stuff to make people doubt everything he says about the few things that are most likely true." And that's a pretty scary thought, that the powers-that-be would use such sophisticated forms of psychological manipulation & trickery. Scary indeed; but as we all know, hardly unfeasible. I think this is a pretty common tactic used by fascists, to confound the gullible masses.
I spent a whole day watching David Icke, a few years back. I'd googled Zeitgeist (much of which resonates for me) and had been pretty immersed in that when somehow by accident, I stumbled into Mr. Icke. Had me confused for awhile, assuming he was affiliated with Zeitgeist. Anyway I watched Icke for a long time as well, ultimately walking away with mixed feelings. Like you say PD, he seems to blend some kernels of truth with a fair amount of questionable (at best) theories. It was entertaining, but I didn't get sucked into that man's spell either, remaining firmly grounded in my realm of reality. The older I get, the better I am at that, staying grounded.
Such is the blessing, or curse, of living in "interesting times"! - AIW
P.S. I just found your post about my old residence and elementary school; rather than pardoning you for interjecting, I thank you! Do you live in Oakland, by the way?
Aliceinwonderland: Forgive me for interjecting but it looks like your old school is still there.with faces painted on the windows....or at least it was a couple of years ago when Google Earth went through with their spy-mobile taking panoramic photos of the community.
Wow! You had quite a view up there! It kinda freaked me out, after your story of going back there while on acid, because when I checked it out on Google Earth street view....something went really haywire and I got really crazy geometric shapes represent buildings and trees but really surrealistic on the top half of the screen and a night time view of stars on the bottom half of my screen. I have never experienced this on Google before and no, I haven't dropped any acid lately or ever. Anyway, it straightened it self out and I was able to view your house from the street...carport level. What a view of Oakland! If you don't have Google Earth...you should get it...it let's you travel to places in an instant!
Marc, I just did what you suggested and googled Davie's autobiography and - WOW! People like that amaze me. John Davie "Buckaroo" sounds like a total "man's-man" sort of guy (mule driver, butcher, ranch hand); a man of culture (opera singer, actor); academic (law school), retailer (hay & feed business, book store)... and as if that weren't enough, a bohemian free spirit and/or connoisseur of literature who rubbed elbows with the likes of Jack London! That's pretty amazing. An all-around Renaissance man who could also be described as a chameleon! More typically, and especially back then, a working stiff's life could easily be filled with just one of those occupations. Mayor Davie sounds absolutely fascinating, Marc; now I understand what has you so inspired by this person. Folks living in those times apparently had their own issues with oligarchs, such as Mr. Davie's battle with Central Pacific Railroad. (Sounds like he gave those hacks a run for their money, at the very least!) And the ferry service there on the bay all started with him as well. They don't make 'em like that anymore, do they?! Mr. Davie knew what public service was all about, that it wasn't about self-enrichment!
Thank you for sharing another bit of history with me, about my old home town!
Back in the fifties & sixties, Oakland was a marvelous place for me to grow up. If you're ever on Hillmont Drive, our old address is 7565. That house was brand-spankin' new when we first moved in, the summer of '56. It was right before I entered first grade at Parker Elementary School. Oakland was very rural back in those days and man, was it gorgeous! I was in butterfly heaven; they were everywhere, and so many different kinds. By late summer, the grass on our hillside would be taller than my waistline. Lots of trees to climb, critters to catch, nooks & crannies to explore. It was a kid's paradise. Those were the days… (SIGH).
We lived in that house for eleven years, until the summer I turned seventeen, when we migrated to a cul-de-sac in El Cerrito. Some years later in the mid '70s, while in my mid-20s, I visited my old neighborhood again while tripping on acid. In retrospect, that wasn't such a brilliant idea. By then the city authorities had destroyed all the natural vegetation around there (deemed a fire hazard) and the butterflies were gone. A few of those old houses even had astro-turf in front of them. I remember crying, and it ruined my trip.
Like the old saying: You can never go home again.
Anyway Marc, guess I got off on a tangent of some sort… It's kinda hard for me to think about Oakland without getting flooded with memories, a "blast from the past" as it were. Goes with being an old fart, all those memories… Anyway dear Marc, thank you so much for sharing such a fascinating piece of Oakland history with me!
By the way, do you happen to know if Parker Elementary School still exists? - Aliceinwonderland
David Icke writes lots of books and articles on the "Lizard People" and the "Illuminati". A lot of what he writes about... the ruling elite, etc., sounds probable...all except for when he claims that the "Illumnati" are the Lizard People who are shape-shifters and who are running things here on planet Earth. All except when he tries to claim that all of the runaways on milk cartons are because the human-eating (or perhaps, they just drink the human blood like vampires) Lizard People who now dwell in subterranean mazes abduct the children taking them down to their lairs to feed upon. He also gets into Satanic nonsense as well.
I wonder if, by mixing a little bit of truth (that the ruling elite are creating wars to gain profit from them) isn't purposely being mixed with some pretty wild stuff to make people doubt everything he says about the few things that are most likely true. The government has done this...invent fantastical nonsense to mix it in with things that actually happened in order to turn people off from it all. The Icke people even try to counter with the idea that some people, wanting to hide the truth, will try to say that he has some pretty far out ideas.
I used to listen to Art Bell radio show and then Coast to Coast AM and even have read things on Rense.com but there sure was a lot of nonsense. Not only from Icke but from Major Ed Dames. These things are all interesting to listen to but I give them very little credibility.
The reference to Rumsfeld...he may not even have known what the heck the guy was talking about..thinking he was asking a nonsense question that didn't even deserve an answer. But, according to Icke...if you ask a Lizard Person if they are one and they don't answer "NO" and remains silent that it indicates that he is one. According to Icke Lizzard People cannot deny that they are Lizard People when asked...so they can only answer "Yes" or be silent. People used to test whether people were possessed of the devil by weighting them down under water...drowning them....if they drowned then they were innocent if they survived..then they were possessed.
Kend -- Your ignorance is overwhelming (it is the reason I like your blogging so much; please never stop).
It seems that every finacial institution, oil company, pharmeceutical company etc breaks the law with impunity. The one I remember the most is the money laundering of drug money by the UBS. I think Eric Holder's response could be interpreted as UBS is too big for us to prosecute. He said something like the austerity economics of people like Kend have weakened our government so much that we do not have enough resources to prosecute the big corps.
With regards to the 5 trillion dollars spent by the government, it has provided some of the best return of any such large entity I can think of. For example from a loss of 700K jobs a month to gaining of 250K jobs a month. Without the republican insurrection of the caucus rm restaturant, the return would have been so much more.
The US economy always does well when the top tax rate is above 50%, and does worse when it is below that rate. I can see why you want us to lower the tax rate since it will destroy our economy and make Canada's look really swell.
JBP -- It seems to me the only current path to the ideal you describe is card check (AKA employee free choice). We were just one vote short of being able to override the republican filibuster of card check. Vote Democratic.
JB -- Very interesting! This disaster gave birth to Teddy Roosevelt. We need another such birth.
AIW -- I just put a comment in yesterday's blog, that I will repeat here. Do you know of any examples where two co-ops competed against each other in the market place?