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I was recommended here by a liberal friend of which I have many. I'm a conservative conservationist that finds nothing conservative about Dems or Reps putting our environment, economy, or liberties up for sale for the highest bidders, domestic or foreign. That getting off oil, period, domestic or foreign, should be the eventual goal, I have recycled long before it became convenient, and, yet fear government is being bought and sold at an ever increasing rate on both sides of the proverbial aisle. I was told I would find discussion here with an open mind to common sense solutions and that Thom Hartmann would deliver that view. Anyone here should know what I have found, yet I knew when I heard it from my friend, because he was unwittingly spouting the same party line; biased misinformation he was intentionally given here. If we don't start looking for and finding some common ground, instead of being led, shamed, or coerced into corners by special interests and politicians, then we may find out how lucky or unlucky we are to be Americans. Those in a hurry to experience this can leave while it is still a free country. The powers that be are well on their way with the lowest home ownership since the founding of the Community Re-Investment act of 1977. The "actual" unemployment rate exceeding that of the Carter administration and the guys on capital hill, since that time, having contributed to more middle class jobs being sent overseas than we can count. And all we do on so many of these sites is call names and try to sound like we have a real idea of what's happening. Is not hard to recognize spin on both sides of any discussion. It's in the message here and everywhere I look, except maybe Ron Paul. Good luck to you guys.
low wages and record breaking corporate profits, the rich getting richer, wall (fraud) street bandits getting bailed out, Jon Corzine and his gang of bloodsuckers escaping formal charges and facing lawsuits before a bench that is already in their goddamn back pockets, on and on, it is so SICKENING!!!!!
Republican members of Congress behave as though they are terrorists. They do not negotiate in good faith, the place "non-negotiable" demands on the table then accuse Democrats of being fascist pigs. Call them out for what they are, they are doing the bidding of their masters. The recent refusal to take even the most sensible gun control measures reveals who their masters are . . . it is not the people who elect them, they only respond to lobbyists and billionaires.
"Listening to reason" is not a republican characteristic. They shut out even hearing facts and opinions that don't fit their world view. I believe they literally do not hear different opinions. The research on this shows that listening to facts doesn't change people's minds.
The Big Brain project can't move ahead soon enoough. I'd really like to know what makes some people, repubs and dems, impervious to information, facts, and the consequences of doing, or not doing, something.
If only there was a way to get the Republican'ts to listen to reason there might be chance to move towards a meeting of the minds. But they don't listen much less hear.
Somehow we need to find Democratic people to run for Congress and lie to the public during the entire campaign so that the Republican'ts will vote for them and then they can vote the way they really want to.
I don't think they exist.
It is time to increase our resolve to defeate as many of these empathy dead Republican congressmen in the up coming elections.work hard tell your friends compain tell your story Too many in the DOP have closed minds
I dont think enough workers are able to survivie without the wages they bring in.
They should be getting a higher wage, but they can not risk what they are getting now.
I stuck with too many jobs that I was not happy with because I could not be without health care and a salary. And I was in a lot better shape then a fast food worker.
Of course because of those decisions, that is why I have been unemployed for over 3.5 years. And off unemployment for 1.5 years. So I am not counted in any unemployment roles.
Howard L - Thom was on Bill Maher. IMO, he kind of wimped out. Thom more or less agreed. Thom's explanation was the he did not view it as "Crossfire". If he gets back on Bill Maher, we need to push him to treat it as "Crossfire".
Actually, the Iriquois society was not a matriarchy but a more equitable society - and still classed by most contemporary social scientists as ultimately male dominated. I, personally, am an "equity feminist" or "equality feminist". I believe in an ideal of equality between male and female and reject all supremicisms - even those by formerly oppressed people (although I find those more tolerable, morally, than supremicisms held by the origional oppressors). Most social scientists reject the idea that there had ever been matriarchy or matriarchal civilzation and consider it an invention of radical feminists.
The Lakota were probably the MOST martial and warlike of ALL native North Americans. Under the leadership of Red Cloud and Sitting Bull, they were the ONLY Native Americans to win a war against the United States (Little Big Horn and three other massacres after which the U.S. agreed to sign a treaty they probably had no intention of keeping). The colonial attitude of the white settlers was, in fact, one in which they considered the Native Americans' equity between men and women and their communal, classless, propertyless way of life savagery and tried to impose "civilized" systems of patriarchy and private property by force.
I subscribe to the Marx/Engels view of political economic evolution that holds that men and women lived as equals in the classless, egalitarian, preagricultural societies we ALL arose from. With the domestication of plants and animals came class oppression as the principle of domestication was soon applied to other human beings resulting in different forms of slavery as well as the subjugation of women.
There is the view that, before patriarchal religion, the animisms of preagricultrural societies (Wiccanism in Europe) were very female influenced and oriented - if not female centered - giving a primacy for women and influenced society in general in that way but the view is held mainly by modern day adherents to those animistic religions and thus may or may not be true as they may well be biased. But also, the contemporary social scientists may be biased or of some lack of perspicacity. The majority of scientists, of course, once believed the earth was flat. .
In retrospect I did look back at some of the archives and noticed that Mike P. (who honestly I am not a big fan of so that is likely why I missed it) did address this on Thom's show but they never really dove into this topic. It went more to blaming the monied interests and supreme court but at the end of the day Obama still signed this horrible rollback. Still no Dems stood against it as it went through both houses with no debate and no formal vote. What the heck is going on in D.C. right now that even our champions of the left are sitting idly by and allowing this to transpire?
Can someone who gets through today please address the heinous actions of our congress and President in regards to the STOCK act last week? All we keep hearing about is the fallout from the gun debate and Boston. Is it due to the fact that no Progessives even opposed this monstrosity? Sanders, Warren, Pelosi, Obama all just let this go through. This is horrible and all should be held accountable as well as the Repubs that did this. I have been awfully blue in among the reddest of states for years and constantly defend the President and Dems against outrageous attacks but I cannot defend this. And why in the heck did I have to hear it from the late night comedian instead of the hours of political news I follow each and everyday? Stewart and Colbert's shows last night covered two massively important issues in further detail than any other news outlets. I am so disillusioned right now I feel sick.
So, now that it is very apparent that the Republicans are not going to "play ball" isn't it about time for all of the Democrats to reverse the damage they have done...damage they have done by giving in to the Republicans? If they can make laws that taketh away they can make laws that restore what they tooketh away.
I believe that most of the country now realizes (if they don't they are pretty stupid and ignorant) that the Republicans will always represent the wealthy to the extent that they will commit treason against the majority of Americans who are not so wealthy. The Democrats have to be kept in line as well because many of them are sell-outs, also.
So, if all of the Democrats, including Obama, don't reverse all of the damage they have done, after realizing that the Republicans just will not compromise, then they are no better than the Republicans. And all of their rhetoric is total BS.
These two parties work for the same wealthy people...they are just messing with our heads in trying to blame the other party while, in the end, gaining ground for the wealthy while losing it for the rest of us.
The goal of the Democrats, it seems, is not to really compromise, but to blame the Republicans for not compromising which, after all of the name calling and blaming the other side, results in getting just what the wealthy ruling elite want in the first place. Smoke and mirrors! An illusion of democracy but a reality of plutocracy!
It is like a snake swallowing it's prey. The snake's teeth and jaws are a mechanism for drawing the prey into the snake's mouth and down it's throat and never the reverse. I'd say the lower teeth and jaw are like the Republicans and the upper teeth are the Democrats. And they are swallowing us whole...slowly...but surely!
Well, now, seems to me that since Obama has the power to lethally terminate terrorists in this country....maybe he could terminate a bunch of economic terrorists on the Republican side of Congress! I'd LMAO if he did! But, he doesn't have the balls to do that even if he was a real Democrat instead of a Republican disguised as a Democrat. Come on, Obama, use those drones where it will make you the hero of the majority of Americans instead of a villain.
More proof for Thom's idea for stable societies, the matriarchal system; "The ones who made the decisions for the community were the grandmothers. There were societies of grandmothers. Colonizing has forced people to forget these ways. There are still some of us who were taught the old way. I learned from my grandmother. Other people didn't have that opportunity." White Face, a Lakota elder and great-grandmother of nine
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/15870-going-extinct-is-genocide-lakota-elders-tour-to-raise-awareness-about-struggle
Careful, UNCTARHEELS...What you are wanting is a system that does not require (burdon) the State to "prove beyond a reasonable doubt" a person to be guilty of said charge.
What's your position on "pressure cookers"...Should we restrict their size, or should we just ban them?
What about duffel bags, make them clear, or just ban them?
How about your right to express yourself? Restrict your first ammendment Right to babble and nonsense, or aboloish it all together?
What are your thoughts and feelings regarding the Patriot Act? How about Obama's Kill List without trial? Lastly, what do you choose; Security (oppression) or Freedom (Self autonomy and Rights)? Just like two solids cannot occupy the same space, you can't have absolute security and freedom.
Now be a good boy and take your medicine!
What you speak of, PALINDROMEDARY, when you talk about those that "detest" the U.S. government for meddling in the political affairs of other soverning nations, and engaging military sanctions/coups on those who refuse(d) a centralized banking system, is what the C.I.A. calls Blow Back.
You can be sure that as long as the U.S. continues to build and expand as an Empire through military force, and C.I.A. coups, we (Americans) will experience more and more threats and attacks here and abroad; by both organized groups and those acting independently. This reality scares the shit out of me! Why!?!? Well mainly because Americans in general are ignorant and vengful, (the two always seem to go hand in hand), and don't understand that the U.S. government has waaaaaaaaaaaay over reached its authority. We seem to think our shit don't stink, and that we are "entitled" because we are Americans...Comply or else! This ideology is very disturbing, especially coming from a culture that is mostly made up of "God fearing Christians", aka "Good Christians".
What also concerns me is that the U.S. government continues to act in a belligerent manner, as if the "ends" continue to justify the "means"; which in regards to todays means are gravely destructive and deadly of innocent lives, sending the message that Life is Cheap! But, and this is a BIG BUT, it's the discern and denial by the majority of informed Americans, that worries me the most. Even here on this thread there are people who are VERY aware of the corrupt and terrorist actions by this government, both foreign and domestic , and do very little, if anything at all, to protest the U.S. government and the corporate agencies that push policy. Don't get me wrong being informed is good, but that alone doesn't really do much...other than offer entertaining discusions and debates.
The sad thing is, the Boston Bombing - and simmilar violence towards innocent people - is the only thing that draws attention (be it negative), and gets people motivated, outraged, and off their asses in protest...Meanwhile the United Corporations of America continue to wheel and deal; dismantleing our Rights as U.S. Citizins, undermining the U.S. Constitution, and disolving the Middle Class, creating fear and hesteria amongst the masses and mobs...Which is exactly what the Untied States of Corporations wants...OBEDIENCE THROUGH FEAR!!! Turn the people against oneanother, and when the dust settles those that are left standing emotionally and mentally drained, will comply.
Anyone notice that while the "man-hunt" was on in Boston, Martial Law was basicly in effect?
The land of the free and the home of the brave is no longer. Today the only people rightfully protesting are those the U.S. deems as terrorist; which is very likely the reason why the only actions Americans take when it comes to protesting, as far as their grievences go, are via blog sites...But now even that could get a person on "The Obama Kill List"!
The problem there, in addition to whether it would work as you said, is that the Obama Administration greatly expanmded the applicability of that exception to make Miranda almost meaningless. For more on that you can read my first comment where I quote the Democracy Now! story or read the story itself at democracynow.org.
I voted no, but not because I think cigarettes should be banned. I haven't smoked in over 15 years, but I used to. However, I think that the drinking age should be lowered to 18. If you are legally an adult, that should apply to all "adult" activities.
Did you hear ANY of what we've been saying? Those rights are to protect the INNOCENT from wrongful conviction and wrongful punishment, not terrorists. For that reason those rights include the presumption of innocence, as well. How does it help to fight terrorism if, instead of the terrorists, innocent people are punished for their crimes? That could even be considered another hit for the terrorists if we, out of the TERROR they succeeded in letting loose upon us, dismantled our great American system of justice and became a wild, barbaric mob.
How the convicted, once proven guilty, are punished - whether it be severe enough, too severe, too barbarically "cruel and unusual" - is a seperate question. Properly establishing guilt is the first priority and, thus, the preventing and restraining of hysterical lynch mob mentallities.
And, of course, this is an oppportunity for the anti democratic to demagouge to advance their agenda. The Weimar Republic became the Third Reich in just such a way, the bestowing of "emergency powers" upon the executive branch of the German government and the dispensing with of civil liberties of the general German public - also justified as exeptional "emergency" measures - after the burning of the Reichstag and the resulting hysteria - stoked by the Nazis - coming from it.
I voted "yes," but I'm honestly not sure that raising the legal age would stop anyone underage from smoking. I started smoking at age 14, & it certainly wasn't legal. You just have older kids buy them for you. Of course, it wouldn't be as easy to find a 21 year old to buy them, as it is to find an 18 year old, when you're in high school. So, it might make it harder for underage kids to smoke, & that's a good thing. I quit, thank God. As long as smoking is a symbol of rebellion & defiance, it will be "cool" and alluring to teenagers. If that mystique could be destroyed, smoking would be less attractive. That should be part of the education piece.
I think we are all being a little naive here the banks purpose is to maximize profit and seek opportunity to do that in the short term ,long term interest is just not there game now or has it ever been ?
This is called profit survival mentality and is now on steroids ,in the UK before the crash only 10 % of the royal bank of Scotland,s lending was for small business the rest went to property speculation why because these where the fastest shortest money makers .
When the economy becomes more important than actual living human beings and co operation you know that we are in trouble.
Greed is the problem and the thought that there is never enough to go around but the master teachers keep giving us the same messages ,the world will only truly work when we share and share alike and live simply so others may simply live !
I voted "No" but I don't believe we need to ban cigarettes. Just assign them to Schedule One status, nicotine is worse than THC and that's a Schedule One.
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With all due respect, are you serious? By the end of the 1990s, America's poor had been stripped of many of their fundamental civil/legal rghts and protections, and this generation of the middle class is fine with that. We did, indeed, decide that certain law-abiding citizens can be denied a number of civil rights. Even the ACLU, while acknowledging this fact, chose not to embrace the cause of restoring those rights (after all, there's no money in it). From there, this generation gave us Guantanamo, which utterly denies civil rights to the accused. It's wildly naive to think that the law is applied equally to everyone. By now, simply denying that civil rights apply to (fill in the blank) has become pretty routine in the US.
I question this that Thom said: "Information obtained by questioning the suspect during this “exception” period may also be considered as evidence during a future trial."
It was my understanding that just the opposite was the case. The information obtained before reading the man his rights could NOT be used to convict him. It was information regarding possible threats from others. It was on that basis that the Supreme Court allowed the limited questions to be asked before reading the rights because reading the rights might make him refuse to answer those questions if he thought the answers would be used to incriminate him.
At any rate, what actually occurred was that he was asked some limited questions regarding possible ongoing threats. He provided answers willingly. Then he was read his rights. It would seem that the fact that he willingly answered those questions that were not about his guilt could provide a basis for arguing, in the punishment phase of the trial, that he should be spared the death penalty. Thus that information might be used in his trial to his benefit, not his harm.
It's pretty clear that they had sufficient evidence, they believed, to convict him. What they needed to know was if there was an ongoing risk from others.
Even after hard working citizens have finished fattening the Capitalist holding their mortgage, true home ownership is still a bald faced lie. Local government is the perpetual landlord and the rent goes up every year despite the property owners ability to pay. Vermonters have had enough and have proposed a base income tax as a fairer way than property tax to fund things like education. Other states are following this idea.
Of course the rich investor is more than happy to pay the back taxes, gain possession of the property, and rent it back to the serfs.
Who was it, John McCain that couldn't remember how many houses he owned?