Outback: Well said! And, some patterns? I don't know how one cannot see a pattern. Our whole judicial system relies not only on cold hard evidence but they also rely on patterns. On rifling patterns on bullets, on DNA matches, on reports from relatives, neighbors and fellow workers on the observed characteristics of one's behavior. All enough to get a person sent to prison for life...or executed. But, it seems none of these things matters when we are talking about a state power. When they are "too big to prosecute" and when they own all the money and the media...right along with most of the politicians...then what is a poor citizen to do? If one were really willing to learn the truth, one has to do it without relying on those who have a vested interest in ensuring one believes their lies.

Of course one has to be wary about some patterns because one can see just about anything in the clouds. One can even believe he is seeing a continual repetition of certain numbers as having a significance. ;-}

But clouds are pretty random and one cannot imagine that they would have any vested interests for one to see any particular pattern in them..unless one is into anthropomorphism and superstition. But the same is not so for greedy and powerful men who have lots to gain or lose if the majority of people don't believe their lies. They have known for a long time how to mold minds in a fashion that will benefit them. Fear is the biggest molder. And these people have more than enough power to create lots of fear.

Palin here is my point, when you where in Saudi You followed all of there customs or there would be grave consequences. Other cultures come here and want us to change. Like winter holidays instead of Xmas holidays. Our RCMP had to change there uniforms to allow turbins And it goes on and on yet when you go there, well we all know how tolerant they are. Lets not forget as well when you talk about US interference there would be no Kauwait if it wasn't for the US. how far would have Sadam gone. But it's time to come home and look after ourselves. We can only do that if we are energy self suffencient.

Hey, Kend, I hear what you are saying and because I have been exposed, all my life, to probably the same kind of systemic brainwashing in the way people should live...I am very repulsed by some of the ways people of other countries treat their women.

But, even the United States has not gone without a certain amount of historical unfairness and brutality toward women. It wasn't until fairly recently that the "age of majority" for sexual purposes, marriage, etc. in some states went from 16, in many states, to 18; and, in a few states, it went from 13 to 18 (or is it to 16?).

I know that, in checking out marriage licenses in the state where I went to high school, that I discovered that there were a number of girls that were married at the age of 16.

It has been a long hard struggle for many women to get equal rights and equal pay and many still don't get paid as much as a man in the same job. And the US has a history of treating women very badly and letting an abusive husband beat them and even murder them because she and her lover were caught in the act.

I know this is not exactly the same when compared to many violent acts like in India where the wife was expected to throw herself on her husband's funeral pyre and burn up with her husband...and if she didn't do it voluntarily, the husband's family would throw kerosine on her and lite her up. But they have been trying to modernize and crack down on this kind of thing.

Or in some Arabic countries where women were stoned to death for adultery...or murdered by their male relatives for having dishonored the family for having sex with someone. And then there is an abominable practice of female genital mutilation. All these things are horrible to us in the west.

But the thing to remember is that these things, while they do happen frequently, they do not happen all the time. There are many "enlightened" and more "civilized" people in those countries that do not practice the "backward" and "shameful" deeds that others do.

And despite the fact that Saddam Husein and his sons (especially the sons) treated women badly--raped them whenever they wanted--most women in Iraq were treated very well and fairly equal to men....until the US barged in and destroyed a relatively civilized country.

But there are things in the west that are abominable to those in the east. If Muslims looked at only a few instances in the US and tried to paint all of the US based on just those few instances then they would he just as wrong-headed as many westerners. One thing they abhor is how sexually lose, especially in public they think we are. They think we're all shameless greedy sluts and war-mongering hypocrites. Not all of us are like that, of course, just the few that run the country.

But those westerners who scorn the lifestyles in other countries seem to have cognitive dissonance when it comes to their willingness to maim and murder many of those women and children by invading and killing them. All to satisfy some western moral code. There is no universally correct morality-- IMHO! Just the ones that everyone tries to force on others.

I lived and worked in Saudi Arabia...it was a good experience in that I was able to broaden my understanding of the world but I sure wouldn't want to live there permanently. That's their world...I don't want to change it..that is their business..and I realize that if we try...we'll will just get bogged down in meddling in someone else's business...costing us way more than it is worth. We are not, nor should we be, the world's policemen or moral compass.

I feel lucky I made it back without getting my head cut off.

So on the Chris Matthews show they are talking about all of the tears in the church where they are morning the victims of the BM bombing as if this was really heart moving scene (and of course it was)...and then Chris Matthews says something like "Compare this with those people over there (the Middle East) who have just gotten used to it"...as if to say.."hey, they are used to dying..they don't show emotions like we do....so who really gives a sh1t...look at how our people grieve and show lots of emotion.

Palindromedary ~ So big brother still lives? That's wonderful! Now there can be a trial and the truth found out. This should prove to be more interesting than the OJ trial. Even if he can't speak he can write. Never underestimate the power of the pen!

As far as what you said to Ken Ware is concerned, a very good question indeed. "What are you implying?" It would appear he suspects all open minded citizens who are critical thinkers that criticize the Government are capable of mindless violence toward other innocent citizens. If so, this in and of itself is very dangerous thinking. Please clarify your comments Ken Ware. I'm sure that is not what you meant. Sometimes Ken we defend our passions with less reasoning than otherwise.

Personally, I don't think this is the end result of any organized terrorist effort. Home grown, lone nut, or Government orchestrated fits the facts. Quite frankly Palindromedary, from that intelligence report captured from Islamic correspondences I got the impression that any real terrorist organization that would strike in the US has the wherewithal to pull off a much grander act. This event has low brow written all over it. To suggest that an organized terrorist group would resort to something as simple as a pressure cooker in a backpack is an insult to the intelligence of organized terrorist. To find the American public buying such an explanation is an insult to the intelligence of the American public.

Not particularly surprising!

thevoice: and especially the one very tricky maneuver in pulling a tight descending circle just before hitting the Pentagon. Many very skilled airliner pilots with many years experience have said that they doubted even they could do such a thing. There are so many things about the official government conspiracy theory that any one of them, let alone all of them, should be enough to make most thinking people question the governments lies. The weakest link in a chain can result in complete failure...but when you have so many failing links, how can people still believe they can still hold the official conspiracy theory together? Only the most gullible and obstinate, cognitively-dissonant people continue to believe in the official conspiracy theory.

Quote Ken Ware:
One of his family members stated that he and his family believed the conspiracy theory that Palindromedary continues to make reference to and that is the government of the United States was solely responsible for the 911 terrorist’s attacks and were using Muslims as the fall guys for these attacks.
.......
And please don’t start with the theory the government did it; I think Palindromedary does a great job of it for everyone! And by the way, these two lunatics bought into the theory the government was responsible for 911 and this just fueled their hated for this country.

But, you are right that I believe powerful, wealthy, and influential forces within the US (coupled, perhaps with the Wahabi regime of Saudi Arabia, and Israel) were the real masterminds behind 911. Just because these suspected BM terrorists may have believed the same thing....uh...well...so what!? Almost half of the people in the US believe that we were not told the truth by our authorities about what went down on 911.

Some people believe that the Bush regime knew full well what was going to happen...but let it happen so they could use it as an excuse to send forces to the Middle East and do an illegal invasion of Afghanistan then Iraq. Why did the 19 "hijackers" who were being watched and reported on by the FBI use a hands off policy toward them?

Some people, like Ken, seem to want to believe that our government could never do anything bad to their citizens. And although they would send thousands of soldiers to murder civilians (women and children) and die in other countries themselves...they'd never stage a false flag operation killing a few thousand here in the US. ;-{

I mean, if you did this, it would mean making everyone so afraid and ultra patriotic that they would all act like automatons and back anything the treasonous "officials" wanted. It would mean distracting people's minds away from the decades of criminal casino capitalism that was ruining people's lives. And if we had not had a terrible mass mind f4ck on 911 we would have concentrated on all of those corporations like MCI and Enron (just the tip of the iceberg) and the impending mortgage collapse...the massive derivative scandals...etc.

Two of the places that were targeted and hit on 911 were centers that were investigating massive financial crimes...one in one of the WTC buildings and the other in the Pentagon. And even the one FBI agent John P. O'Neal was sent to die in the WTC towers, as head of security, something like 19 days before 911. John O'Neal maybe knew too much about Usama bin Laden's connections with the CIA? O'Neal "joked" that maybe the terrorists would finish the job of 1993....and there are serious questions about that bombing as well as are there about the OKC bombings.

And then, PNAC had already had the plans for how things would be...invasion of the ME..control of the oil...fear that OPEC would turn away from the US dollar as a standard...all they needed was "another Pearl Harbor".

And so, like Pearl Harbor (another false flag planned and designed by FDR using the McCollum memo)* and the Joints Chief of Staff Northwoods Operation.... the PNAC traitors engineered 911.

* 8 step plan to provoke Japan into attacking the United States. President Roosevelt, over the course of 1941, implemented all 8 of the recommendations contained in the McCollum memo.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/McCollum/index.html

Quote Kend:
I think you are under estimating how many terrorists there is in the world that want to kill Americans.

don't get me wrong i would love to use solar and wind but we just aren't there yet. Besides Canada is only responsible for 1.8 % of the worlds green house gas and we havehundreds of millions of acres of trees and plants purifying the air. China and India are the problem but of course there is no mention of them because there is no way to make any money off them for what they are doing to the environment. I lived long enough to see how we where going to burn to death because of the Ozone layer of course we didn't there was no problem. Then we where going freeze to death because tempatures where falling. Scientist where going to spray the I entire Arctic with a insulating foam to cool the earth down, that was only 30 years ago so I have to sit and wonder if 30 years from now if the next generation is going to think we where as stupid as they where. All I know is the earth has heated and cooled it self for 50 million years to think a little car exhaust would change it still hard for me to beleive. We have spent hundreds of billions on this DAnneMarc Ian's it hasn't changed a thing. We have reduced green house gases by ZERO. Do you he now how many children would get better health care and schooling with that kind of money. What if wwe are wrong. Besides we wouldn't be ready for green energy for at least 30 or 40 years min. so lets go with my plan for now.

Kend ~ I like the cut of your jib. Great theory. Only one big problem--it's still fossil fuel. We need to focus our resources on biofuel and solar energy. There is plenty of that available and it doesn't throw CO2 into the atmosphere. Biofuel does, but it balances out when the plants produce oxygen during the growth cycle.

In short, your goals are sound. However your energy source sucks. Remember, all fossil fuels are merely solar energy stored in plants and fossilized over centuries. Let's endeavour to feed off the living and let the dead RIP. As a planet, if we feed off of death we die. If we feed off of life we live.

Ken, yes the Alberta oil shipped through Keystone would go to Texas get refined and then get shipped all over the world as gas or diesel. Unless of course there is a shortage of oil in the world then it would be kept in the US. BUT it would replace about 900 million barrels a day that come from either Venusula, Nigeria, or Saudi Arabia in a ship across the ocean through the Gulf to Texas, as it is done now. All of those countries have terrible environmental policies. Not to mention human rights violations I could go on for thousands of words about them. To get to your point where the US makes its money is buying the oil value adding to it by changing the oil to fuel And reselling it. There hasn't been a refinery built in North America for 35 years. We have enough already. If Keystone doesn't get built they are going to build one in Canada in the NW And ship the value added product to China the other option is to ship the crude oil direct to China and let them refine it. China needs they are going to get it from somewhere. The unions here in Canada have been protesting because they want the refinery built here by them and creating more Canadian jobs to build it and run it forever. My point has always been we need to be energy self sufficient here in North America. If we can accomplish this we don't need the Middle East and we can get the hell out of there, then it would be a European problem. They would have to patrol the gulf there and make sure there countries don't run out of oil. We will see if European countries have all that free education and health care when they have to start paying the bills. Plus all these nuts from the Middle East will leave us alone After we get out for here.

Quote DAnnemarc:
I know you meant no offense by it but I'm very sensitive to racial degradation of any kind;...

You seem to me, however, very (perhaps overly) sensitive to several issues and even though you word your entries in a way that you are not making blatant accusations, it seems to me that you are making very suggestive ones. I don't know how in the world you could have interpreted what I said as racial in any way. The people I have a big problem is with people who are bigoted and feel racially superior to others. I'm surprised that, after all I have said over the past years on this blog site...re: the illegal US wars slaughtering innocent citizens in the Middle East...and their criminal behaviors and slaughters every where else in the world would have given a big clue that I am not a bigoted WASA (white anglo saxon atheist) (but I am a WASA) and definitely not a WASP or a WASC. I guess you might say that I am even less bigoted than God because at least I didn't command the Israelites to go down into the land of Canaan and slaughter everyone. Oh, excuse me, I know that that was the "old testament God". The "new testament god" is the new and approved one.