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Satire for a Fund raiser
Usually Thom's nerdy, academic definition gets me to think out of the box. Being rather poor can assure most that Google’s megalomaniac definition is a standard of my condition. That being said, in a sober way with spikes of comical laughter like a scientist, not like a nemesis, that just might have figured out when man first appeared on earth. It was because of the earth poles reversing, not an asteroid. Surprise!
Back then who knows what could have happened. Maybe if the previous Vice Presidential candidate Mrs. Palin looked a little higher at what is called Auroramagnetosphere, also commonly called the Northern Lights than suggest to study this thing, the politics might be different. We could be ready for the next Polar Reversal. Seriously derivatives mapped out in unique ways can blow up the Federal Reserve better than any Wahhabi IED.
My suggestion to this dilemma is to build scientific metro lines immediately. The unemployed could look to pan for gold while doing scientific work for gigolo interest groups, also, hell on wheels maintenance plans with a living wage galore. But we know the open range moose profit marketers will complain and lobby Congress. Especially in new long range planning for new border problems with Russia and China, possible Bearing Straight or Gay immigration, let alone boot leg crude oil that will stymie stocks in the Key stoned piped line extension to kickstand Russia.
The chatter developed by this free speech message should be enough to generate tons of money, remember free speech is money so pony up and send in your dollar to Thom to continue.
Enemy combatants need not apply.
Chuckles8: There are lots of civil engineers that question the official conspiracy theory here:
http://www2.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php
Most of the ones listed, at first, are architects and about 1/3 of the way down it starts to list the civil engineers. Just do a Find: civil and you will go right to them.
The last two administrations, one republican and one democratic, both have not just been chipping with the full support of both sidess of that corrupt aisle, but have been on course to totally corrode away many constitutional guarantees. Obama, now being given Royal Tyrannical rights by this same congress who do not represent the people, now can determine who lives and who dies on this planet. And for Americans this means a complete violation of the due process clause of the 5th and 14th amendment.
Why is it that Thom Hartman, has been essentially quiet concerning the murderous unconstitutional nature that the office of president has been afforded? The innocent Afghan children that Obama has murdered, and terms those murders, that very obscene term used by the wretched politicos,"collateral damage". That should be complete outrage to all, yet Thom and the rest of the brain challenged population have accepted the murder of Afghan innocent children as reasonable and tolerable and yet are so uposet, and rightly so, when American innocent children are murdered. Where is there a difference between a murdered Afghan child and an American child?
There exists in this immoral country the quite noticable absence of the ability to discern right from wrong. And why Hartman is not using his role to wake up his fellow democrats to the murderous nature of this president and the congress does not speak well of him.
Where is the OUTRAGE!!!
Mark Saulys - I have no disagreement with what you say, but how is your use of the word fascism any different than Thom's? However, both of you disagree with the dictionary definition and, of course, Wikipedia. Fascism being the merger of state and private interests and selling those interests to the public via nationalism, was quickly redefined when a multi-national corporation bought out Meriam-Webster per Thom. The multi-national quickly removed the private interest part out of the definition in the 1980's. Interestingly, my dictionaries agree with what Thom says and my sister's do not.
Frankly, I have no problem with them TEMPORARILY delaying Mirandizing him to see if they could determine through this suspect whether or not there were other explosives or other perpetrators that could risk public safety. Less than 72 hours after capture, and considerably fewer hours after he was able to communicate at all, he was read his rights.
Seems appropriate under the circumstances!
As despicable as what he did is, and in no way intended to diminish the horror he and his brother inflicted on Boston, seems to me considering an exploding pressure cooker a WMD is over-reacting...unless you are ALSO willing to classify AK47 or AR15's and extended magazine weapons and the like WMDs as well! There is no question in my mind those children and teachers at Sandy Hook were every bit as TERRORIZED as the people of Boston were.
Why is the killing of 4 and injuring of 200 somehow much worse than the tens of thousands who are killed each year with guns???
In addition, U.S. citizens are not more entitled to the rights of the accused and suspected than those who are not citizens as it is not less important that we do not wrongly convict or punish non citizens. The whole distinction was only started by the Bush Administration after 9/11 in order to get Americans to adopt an imperialistic racism placing Americans at the top of some supposed hierarchy of relative value of human beings.
Nor does returning to visit the country you emigrated from make one an enemy combatant. We simply have many of the same fascists (by the more popular definition of the word, not Thom's nurdy, academic definition) - the same anti democratic imperialists - trying to opportunize on this, like they did 9/11, to advance their agenda.
"no matter how evil we may believe them to be " we can't go back to the days of lynch mobs.
NYTWEED (because you were the last message in the thread and I agree with your view the most) - I like to think the gun debate had nothing to do with guns and everything to do with highlighting the fascist control of our government.
My favorite idea for a bumper sticker which I plan to repeat until someone says something about it is
REDUCE THE DEBT BY INCREASING THE DEFICIT
I sent such a suggestion to Bernie Sanders referring to Ravi Batra's analysis pointing out everytime we get near balancing the budget (i.e. small deficit) the stock market crashes. One of the best examples being the big crash after Clinton balanced the budget. What makes this example so good is that Obama seems to be trying to follow in Clinton's footsteps. Also, pointing out to Bernie, that when FDR tried to balance the budget early in his 2nd term unemployment became double digits and the stock market headed down. FDR quickly stopped trying to balance the budget. No response has come from Bernie yet.
Democracy Now! had a good story today about how the public saftey exception to the reading of the Miranda warnings was greatly expanded by Obama to almost make them meaningless. Initially, the exeption was carefully defined and strictly limited to what could actually be seen as considering pertinence to genuinely imminent dangers of approprately significant magnitude.
In addition - as constitutional lawyer and columnist for the Guardian, Gleen Greenwald said on the program - "And the images that were sent and the messages that were broadcast over and over and over again were that Muslims were a unique threat, that we ought to be not just tolerant, but grateful, when the U.S. military and police and other authorities fill our streets, shut down our major cities, ride through and go house to house without search warrants, forcing people to come out of their homes and searching their homes—all sorts of application of very extreme sort of police and military tactics, all in the name of Islamic terrorism. And the idea that we should just rush to call this terrorism, that we should essentially assume their guilt, that we should suspend normal legal process, that we should treat it differently, is all very much the core of what has driven the radicalism and extremism of the United States government over the last decade. And I really believe that this incident will sort of normalize behavior that we should all be very wary of, even in the most extreme conditions, let alone an incident that, although horrific and heinous, in terms of the death count, in terms of what it actually is, really ought to be viewed as a crime."
What people forget is that, in our society, the rights of the accused (and suspected) - including the presumption of innocence - exist to protect the innocent from wrongful conviction and wrongful punishment (and undue harrassment by the authorities). They are not for the privileging of the guilty.
A former deputy U.S. Attornry General said that the Boston Matrathon bomber shouldn't be charged with terrorism but mass murder - in contrast to people like U.S. Rep. Steve King and Senator John McCain who say he should be held as an enemy combatant. The definition of terrorism is the intentional targeting - killing or injuring - of innocent civillians (and usually on a grand scale - for greater "political" effect) to attain a political goal. The use of explosives doesn't make someone a terrorist any more than adhering to the Muslim faith does.
By that definition the Boston bombers are not terrorists but mass murderers, the Weather Underground were not terrorists but politically motivated vandals - as they went to great pains to make sure noone was ever physically harmed by their acts - and the "Unabomber", Ted Kozynski, was not a terrorist but a targeted assasin.
,
Actually, the Weather Underground was never "blowing up people", as Thom said. They took great pains to make sure nobody was physically harmed by their acts. They were not terrorists but politically motivated vandals just as the Boston Marathon bombers are not terrorists but mass murderers (as the former deputy U.S. Attorney General said) and Ted Kozynski was not a terrorist but a targeted assasin.
The definition of terrorism is the intentional targeting - killing or injuring - of innocent civillians (and usually on a grand scale - for greater "political" effect) to attain a political goal. The use of explosives doesn't make someone a terrorist any more than adhering to tha Muslim faith does.
Thank you for your reply to my post. After four years of Obama I have no illusions but the gap between the lesser of two evils was vast. Romney was a man of little intellect and was perfectly willing to do what ever the right wing of the corporate class wanted him to do. Let there be no mistaking what the aim of the Koch brothers and their ilk was. The middle class being the dominant working class in this country needed to be whipped into shape and the best way to do this was to crash the economy and destroy what ever vestige of affluence and autonomy the middle class enjoyed. That was what Obama prevented. It is true that Obama was and is aligned with a big chunk of Wall Street. The relationship is symbiotic. Wall street continues to make money and Obama gets a certain amount of social stability. Most importantly the right wing of the Republican party is truly fascistic and we have so far avoided the worst of that. Given the composition of the congress Obama will not be allowed to do too much unless things change in 2014 at midterm. The right wing will just have to work a little harder at it since Obama now knows their game. No serious person is fooled by campaign rhetoric. And some good has come out of the democratic presidency. For example scientists can do stem cell research with getting eclesiastical permission. During the last election it became very plain that if Romney had gotten elected the Koch brothers and their ilk would be running the government through front men like grover Norquist and that is a pretty frightening prospect. obama has had to play a defensive game throughout but at least someone is playing defence. I truly wish the Democratic party had not gotten itself embroiled in the gun debate. As i said it is poison for a pack of east and west coast liberals who know little about the subject to fight on this one. I think for all the rhetoric most Democrats Obama included are glad they lost. Harry Reid was the only smart one. He traded off eliminating the filibuster to protect red state Democrats good thinking. If you are looking for saintliness and perfection do not look to politics you will not find it there.
Well i see no one has taken up my offer of directions to a nearby gun shop so I guess there aren't any true revolutionaries out there. "I think I'll join me comrades and talk a little treason"
Hey, Nachos - sorry for the delay. I just returned here and was surprised at the amount of activity on an old thread. But why kill a good forum while it's producing good stuff.
Yes, I received Friday's post from Thom. I've noticed that sometimes these posts come in early and sometimes much later. Maybe not at all. Who knows what kind of algorithm they're using to keep down the rabble;-) Have you received it or would you like me to post the link here?
Well I'm totally with you on not voting for the 'lesser evil". I voted for Obama in '08 because he had said all the right things, and after two miserable Bush terms I was desperate to believe him. But it took only a couple of months after he took office for the alarm bells to start going off in my head. By the time November 2012 rolled around I had determined I'd vote for a 3rd party candidate simply as a protest to the 2 party status quo and so as not to endorse either candidate (though I did perceive that Romney would take the corporate vulturism to a whole new level). I figured that if any 3rd party candidate got even a measurable fraction of the vote, that might be a seed that could germinate.
Regarding all the banter about gun control here, in the media and in congress, I think it's just a red-herring to distract the masses from the real threat; and that would be the systematic destruction of our economy and our way of life in this country. Gun violence is a problem, no doubt, but it pales into insignificance compared to the damage being done by our corporations, the banks and the hedge fund boys on Wall Street. Those piranha that inhabit the 1% are raping the country and fleeing as fast as they can for gentler climes. By the time we finish arguing over whether gun violence is the NRA's fault or something inherently evil about a particular semi-automatic rifle or magazine, our Wall Street cat burglars' dirty work will have been accomplished and they'll be sitting on the beaches of their opulent villas far away, sipping expensive cognac, snickering.
In the mean time, don't be too anxious to disarm yourself, even if you have to rely on a sling shot. The day is coming soon when things are going to get very hard for those of us left behind.
What are they afraid of...that he's going to set off another bomb from his hospital bed? I think there is a lot of propagandist nonsense being played out here...all for show. Now, if he can't speak or comprehend hearing Miranda rights read to him, then that makes sense to hold off until he can understand and respond coherently.
@akunard
There's plenty we can do about China. Like how about start making stuff in our own country again rather than giving all the manufacturing jobs to countries like China? It'll be as simple as Tariffs or VAT taxes. Those manufacturers will pull up in a hurry then.
Some of what you say, NYTWEED, in regards to the wishy-washiness of Romney and the other baffons of the 3rd reich I agree with. However, I will further say that I find your perspective regarding "the lesser of two evils" to be passé. Evil is evil! To say, or imply, that you voted responsabley by voiting for the lesser of two evils is completely absurd, and a perfect example of our societies diminishing expectations for true leadership and representation of the American Middle Class; the back bone of what once inspired a person to strive for greatness.
I don't disagree that Romney was a threat to the average American, and would have been more agressive, but after 4 years we are not in any better way with Obama, and so far it looks like his second term will be a complete mirror of his first.
Both Obama and Romney are Corporate Opportunist to the fullest degree. Obama's puppet strings are attached to Wall St.
If We the People of the United States of America ever want to have a true and great leader, one that represents the Bee Hive and not just the queen and her privledged few, then We the People must fullfill our duty to alter or abolish ANY government that becomes destructive of the Equal Right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
One way to do this is to STOP BEING FOOLED by campaign rehtoric, and a bias media agenda (CNN, MSNBC, FOX, etc. basically all Comercial Media). Stop cowering to corporate political threats from the Left and the Right. Inform yourself on who these Class Clowns do buisness with...Who is lining their pockets; that right their alone will tell you what kind of agenda these pricks really have. For example; During Obama's 2008 campaign Obama spoke big on Green Energy...That alternative energy sources, such as Solar, and Wind generated energy was the future of America. Yet Obama had received millions of dollars from the largest nuclear power company builders in the world...How is this not a conflict of intrest?
During the last election I wasn't sure which way it would go, but nor was I worried that if Romney was elected "things" would be worse. The one thing I did know...I wasn't going to be foolish and cast a fear vote. Now I wasn't so foolish to think that a 3rd party candidate would win...But, and it's a BIG BUT, I wanted to send a clear message that I, as a tax paying middle class American was not supportive of neither the Republican or Republicrates agenda.
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Penicillin didn't work...it's a Penicillin resistant "venerable" disease. As Rodney Dangerfield would say "I don't get no respect!" That's why I'm saving my fun(sp?)...as a last effort to cure my disease. Just joking!!! Actually, I can usually just ignore my condition by not thinking about it. And because I'm now thinking about it...I am getting a whole chorus of cacophony. But the chirping crickets can put me to sleep and would do so if it weren't for the contrapuntal screeching of harpies that keep me awake. The sometimes clicking and popping keeps me guessing as to whether or not the neighbors are having marital discord again or whether the swat team is at it again a few door down.
Reply to Ken Ware's NIST report description. KW do you know anythng about the credentials of Shyam Sunder? Sometimes he sounds like he is in way over his head. I would really like to hear the input of a civil engineer that has his professional engineer's certification.
PD: I would think by now she'd be well past the age of ululating. And I think a course of penicillin should clear up that tinnitus in short order.
Palindromedary - I asked you for the name of one civil engineer who agreed with your theory about WTC. You gave me links and a lot of words but no name. Tight turns and non-civil engineers describing structures is not very convincing.
Is there anyone going with the theory that Dubya was feeding information to OBL? There certainly is a lot of evidence I can concur with that the administration ignored so many warnings.
Kend: My thought on that is that people coming here should obey and respect our laws and customs just as we have to, and should want to, respect the laws and customs when we travel to other countries. In Saudi Arabia, we would not have been able to walk into a Mosque with our shoes on...and, although I've never wanted to or tried it...even enter a Mosque. I believe the general attitude there is that you can't go into a Mosque unless you are Muslim. You certainly can't go into the holy cities, like Mecca or Medina, in Saudi Arabia unless you are a Muslim on pilgrimage. In fact, it may have changed since I was there but, you can't even go to Saudi Arabia unless you have a special work visa or a pilgrimage visa. I don't believe tourists are ever allowed.
I believe that Sharia law should end as soon as they leave their countries and not be enforced in other countries. If they want to come here then let them bow down to our rules and regs and customs as we have to do the same when going to their countries.
But, I remember when I was a kid in school that the Catholics tried the same thing in our school lunch menus. They got away with telling us that we had to have fish on Fridays. And they also made us say the Lord's Prayer...when all of us were not religious...but we were forced to do it anyway.
It's not just the Muslims that want to force the rest of us to accept their ways. Our school systems are constantly under attack by fundamentalists who want to enforce the teaching of superstitious non-sense as if it was truth and a meaningful part of everyone's lives.