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As I read various articles relating to paid right-wing sock puppets, I noticed many were saying that one way to tell a paid right wing sock puppet was the use of certain key words when referring to Obama or the Democrat party (ie: variations of their names). They also said that another way to tell would be the level of "hatred" they seem to be showing against them. I began to wonder, based on their definitions, if I was not, myself, a paid right-wing blogger..or even just an unpaid one.
Of course, I know that to be totally not true...of course, no one else knows, or necessarily believes that. And as for the use of the word "hatred"..I personally do not hate anyone...even Romney...well, maybe Romney. But Obama does seem to be a very nice person and has a very likable personality...and he sure didn't get rich by destroying people's jobs like Romney did...except, perhaps by not acting in a manner, as President, that would preserve jobs..even though he did save gm/chrysler. His appointing some of the people he did and constantly giving in to the Republicans...jobs still going overseas...would be tantamount to destroying good manufacturing jobs in the US.
I believe both parties are no where close to being liberal or progressive...obviously, the Republicans aren't, but less obvious to many is that the Democrats are not either.
I believe that the essential message of some of these bloggers, paid or not, right-wing or left, is to ensure that everyone is herded into voting for either the Republicans or the Democrats. There are a number of well known people, like Chris Hedges, who know that voting for Obama is not the right answer. So, are the bloggers, both unpaid and paid, both right-wing and (pretend, or compromised left-wing), trying to steer their votes to either Romney or Obama and using their persuasion to keep people in the oligarchical owned and controlled two party system?
Very well said! And I agree.
Poop on people like you. Thinking citizens are not mired down in Republicans vs Democrats. They're writing to their legislators asking them to work on items to make our economy stronger. One side seems ignorant of arithmetic, which is unbelieveable to me because using it well is what makes things work. Not all of us are as ignorant as the people in D.C. seem to think. Unfortunately, there are just too many liars there, and they keep using the idea, tell a big enough lie, repeat it over and over, and you will get people (uneducated unfortunately) to believe you.
I didn't (and don't) question the reality of agents provocateur, whether they are paid by the government's various secret police agencies, by sundry hard-Right individuals and organizations or by the for-profit secret police force -- literally the U.S. equivalent of the Nazi SS -- maintained by Blackwater aka Xe.
Mr. Hayden in his rebuttal of Mr. Hartmann was not just wrong but in denial. Obviously, Mr. Hayden grossly underestimates the intent and capabilities of the enemy; he is also obviously self-blinded to the murderous magnitude of (patriarchally conditioned) human malice. Indeed Mr. Hayden's stance -- all the more astonishing given his years in the shark-tank of California politics -- typifies the Left/liberal failing that enabled the Nazis to win Germany and is enabling their 21st Century counterparts to take over the United States. We all of us need to adopt as our own a 21st Century version of Lev Bronstein's 1905 dictum: "in every gathering of three revolutionaries there is at least one agent of the Okhrana."
Thus Mr. Hayden's refusal to accept reality has nothing to do with his age. It is instead a typical expression of the PollyAnna stupidity that paralyzes the USian mind: the moronic belief that -- whether by divine grace or manifest destiny -- all will be well, an aspect of the credo of U.S. exceptionalism in which we are brainsoaked from birth. Barbara Ehrenreich describes this suicidal syndrome vividly in her groundbreaking expose' Smile or Die: How Positive Thinking Fooled America and the World, which points out numerous examples of how -- regardless of our ages -- it is the bane of us all.
To blame Mr. Hayden's intellectual failure on age is in fact identical in its psychodynamics to blaming race for Obama the Orator's transformation into Barack the Betrayer. Each form of blaming is an expression of the greater cancer of bigotry -- racism, age-ism, sexism, class-ism -- that directly due to the hatreds generated by capitalism have come to dominate U.S. politics. Nor -- as fatfax's comment reveals, is the Left immune: even in the Occupy movement there were numbers of young people who hatefully blamed their elders -- and more specifically, blamed Social Security and Medicare -- for the malicious contractions of the economy by which the capitalist aristocracy is enriching itself.
I can certainly recognize the sensitivities (I'm not so young any more either) but I cannot dismiss the idea that there are paid right-wing bloggers out there..some of whom even pretend to be liberal or progressive, perhaps, that try to steer liberals or progressives into accepting something that would be very detrimental to their health, economically, mentally, and physically. Tom Hayden's quip "We need to get a grip" indicates that maybe he either doesn't believe it or he doesn't understand it, or.......
I am glad that Thom asked the question. Tom Hayden seemed to be very uneasy with it...almost as if he was being asked if he believed that the earth has been repeatedly visited by extraterrestrial aliens.
There have been a number of articles from various sources that have shown us that is actually happening. It is certainly not a "too hard to believe" concept. It's like Blackwater for blogs!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add...
Your comment about an elder needing to "take a long nap in his rocking chair" illustrates perfectly the Ayn Rand viciousness that has metastasized from the One Percent to infect the 99 Percent at every level, producing a Moron Nation that (as we have seen since the Nixonoids won in 1968), now reliably votes for its own enslavement. But your attitude is especially noteworthy, seemingly a classic example of the self-proclaimed "progressive" who -- as the above comment proves -- scorns and despises elderly people, and therefore probably hates disabled and chronically unemployed people as well. The result -- Moron Nation's moronic majority -- tells us all we need to know about why the Democrats have joined the Republicans in busting unions and destroying the New Deal, Social Security included, as well as obliterating every other vestige of the socioeconomic safety net. Thank you for providing us with such a vivid object lesson.
Tom Hayden is a Has-Been old school Democrate. His comment to Thom Hartmann after Thom asked him his opionon on PAID commenters that post far right leaning comments online. Tom Hayden's words where quote " GET A GRIP HERE THOM " unquote. It's old has-been's like Tom Hayden that can't think outside the box. TOM HAYDEN needs to go home and take a long nap in his rocking chair.
For christ sakes, President Obama couldn't be a problem for we progressives even if he wanted to be.... however three things are...... the filibuster, Republican/Teabag House of Norquist, and the Koch sponsored Citizens United ruling. Senator Sanders understands we must vote for Obama.....what more do you want?
If Romney becomes a Viceroy for the Koch Empire we'll have a CORPORATE WELFARE STATE LOADED WITH EVEN MORE DEBT....just ask ole monkey boy Ryan!
Rocky Anderson would be ok, in my book, if he wasn't backed by Americans Elect which is a secretive right-wing outfit funded by wealthy right wingers (as are the Democrats and the Republicans).
Anyone thinking about Rocky Anderson should check out the background of Americans Elect and that of it's founder, Peter Ackerman (the right hand man of Michael Milken). Check out his association with right-wing groups that pose as liberal groups that are believed to be working with the CIA as front groups that are working to overthrow foreign regimes by fomenting internal dissent. I'm sure they are working on Americans as well.
About the only way our votes would really matter, to effect a positive change from the destructive past, is to elect a more socialist government...a government that will investigate and prosecute the economic evil-doers and war criminals in this country. Obama, despite what the right-wingers will have you believe is far to the right of center...not anywhere close to socialist. We have to counteract the destruction of the past 30 years of right-wing, laissez faire pressures.
Very well written and so very true, Insight!
This country is relentlessly being stripped of its earnings and savings. The industrial base and infrastructure that once created wealth disproportionally has been dismantled by those who don't wish to create items of value. They instead just hijack money and use it to accumulate more. Our country enjoyed a period of disproportionate success when we were a sufficient market for our own products and overseas industrial competitors were few or temporarily dismantled by war. That is clearly no longer the case. The latest countries to industrialize have all of the advantages if they can start up with the best tools and technology their predecessors achieved. They enjoy their own emerging new markets plus ours if we have not stepped up to a new level of product creation and manufacturing effectiveness. Politicians are not schooled or experienced in the creation of goods and services. The elite schools that today's money manipulators attend may not even emphasize that wealth (needed to sustain countries and communities) is only produced by farming, mining and manufacturing. Today's American realities are that climate change can disable the industrialized chemically based farming model we have concentrated in our heartlands. Our industrial base has been taken overseas by money manipulators seeking easy profits only for themselves with less responsibility. And our country is being used as a raw and used materials colony for off shored products and manufacturing. We may not like the physical, economic, and emotional scars that will result form hollowing out our land in addition to our base of manufacturing self sufficiency. Does it make sense that we allowed a hundred years of knowhow in product and process to be given to competitor nations who now enjoy the stripping of our nation's resources as the most innovative workers on the planet are idled in our country? If we realize that war in the 21st century is for economic dominance, is such exporting of our self sufficiency not definable as economic treason, reverse patriotism?
The alternate illusion behind the stranglehold being attempted by those who would bypass value creation here to just get money anywhere is orchestrated from a place called Wall Street - an illusionary market acting as an overlay to the actual market of real goods and services. Money manipulators can artificially drive pricing via perceived supply and demand. They can extract real money from every real revenue stream and every change in perceived value. Purchasing politicians, political parties and media mouths is just another cost of doing business on the way to accumulating immense sums. Money is way more portable than factories people, communities, or even nations, Schemes for manipulating money are instant, and with today's computer technology able to be executed with nanosecond responsiveness to opportunities. This money harvesting mechanism is not constrained by any boundary's, loyalties to community, nor ethical constraints. So if our perception is sucked into money as a substitute for superiority in creating real value, we hand imense leverage to a few, who have amply demonstrated they can't be trusted. The party of conservatism has clearly been hijacked, lock, stock and barrel. The party of the working class has been hobbled. If Americans don't challenge every non value based agenda, representative, diversion, distortion, from what we know works and benefits the common good, we will face continued unpleasant erosion.
Most American's feel the loss of self sufficiency we have suffered, but don't understand the why's. The two centers of thought leveraging, political and media are mainly either bought and paid for parts of the money driven stranglehold or are focused on amplifying, not challenging irresponsible and profit-for-a-few agenda driven words and actions. Worse, they are populated by people who never made anything, designed or built something tangible. Solutions to real challenges get very little play. That leaves what we "do want" without voice and without support. It would be fairly easy to diss-empower the few hundred predatory billionaires and the few thousand minions attempting to put a semi permanent stranglehold over hundreds of millions of decent people. Stop listening to what doesn't wash with what makes basic sense, doesn't add value, doesn't address serious needs, doesn't offer solutions your gut feels comfortable with. If a company spends more on lobbying , legal protection, than they do on R&D, product development, manufacturing improvements, education of it's workers right here in the USA, then buy from a company that does. Don't let a dime of your money pass into the hands of any entity that misuses it e.g."too big to fails". Take any member of governance to task for positions or actions that don't represent the common good. If they don't get constructive, remove them. Focus on issues and actions that improve quality of life, not made up emotionally disabling drivel.
We are at a crossroads with respect to reality verses illusion. Competitor nations are demonstrating a better grip on what counts than us. We have 70 million boomers coming out of companies and systems in this country that need overhauling, updating, and redirection toward the future. With no axe to grind working for money focused administrators, bureaucrats and caretakers, they are a knowledge and experience base that can provide what no politician or money changer can. Their motivation is the welfare of their children and grandchildren. We have the most innovative workforce on the planet. It's time to put our trust, emphasis, and support on who and what's worth trusting and supporting. Worthy politicians can facilitate but value adders must lead! By building what sustains, what doesn't will collapse of its own vacantness.
“Basic Fundamental Right?” VERY loaded question! Sounds too much like “unalienable rights” in the Constitution, so I would conclude, NO. I would put it in the same category as having the right to access to news papers, telephone and tv service, and transportation. People consider these factors when they decide where to live, and there are still many areas in these services are not available, yet people choose to live there. The public and private sectors provide these services based on demand and economics and I think should continue to be the guiding reasons to providing internet access.
My vote is for Rocky Anderson. I am not "throwing my vote away," because in reality my vote don't mean squat. That's because the votes of American citizens will NOT be accurately counted with the private, computer voting machine system currently installed.
Ballots need to be hand-counted to show the voters' intent. It's possible to accomplish, but will it ever happen?
Loren at Comment 13 couldn't be more accurate. It's bleak, it's black, but it's close to the truth.
Unfortunately, Average American, your vote don't mean squat. And even if your candidate gets into office, he is coerced to vote for corporate interests by a gun pointed to his head. Literally.
John Spargo, The Common Sense of Socialism, Chapter XI - What to do
"Of course, the first duty of every sincere believer in Socialism is to vote for it. No matter how hopeless the contest may seem, nor how far distant the electoral triumph, the first duty is to vote for Socialism. If you believe in Socialism, my friend, even though your vote should be the only Socialist vote in your city, you could not be true to yourself and to your faith and vote any other ticket. I know that it requires courage to do this sometimes. I know that there are many who will deride the action and say that you are “wasting your vote,” but no vote is ever wasted when it is cast for a principle, Jonathan. For, after all, what is a vote? Is it not an expression of the citizen’s conviction concerning the sort of government he desires? How, then can his vote be thrown away if it really expresses his conviction? He is entitled to a single voice, and provided that he avails himself of his right to declare through the ballot box his conviction, no matter whether he stands alone or with ten thousand, his vote is not thrown away."
I've been taught by the best, Thom Hartmann. So I will be voting for Stewart Alexander or Jill Stein.
No, no, nononono......Obama will deserve blame if the GOP "doesn't pass the jobs bill".
Obama can do all the bullshit shenanigans he's been pulling for 4 years to get assistance to creat jobs on Main Street but has chosen not to. Hello?, Federal Reserve much?! How did Obama get his $8 Trillion of the $16 Trillion to Wall Street? What bill was that again? NOT!!! Come off it!. There is more than one way to skin a cat...if you're willing....and Obama knows it.
The wording chosen for the question stem is sad. It proves a flaw I have long suspected with the two party system - it is more important to our leaders to assign blame to the other party than accomplish whatever it is in question (because we all know that could get accomplished some other way but sadly wouldn't generate an opportunity for blame).
Poop on both parties. If you get mired down in the Republican v the Democrat theatre you're missing the point!
I didn't see Moore's article but even Tom Hayden wrote an article defending Obama.
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THE CLIMB DOWN: In 2008 the (often ahead-of-the-curve) Hollywood star-marketing machinery put Obama forward (to the world) as a savior. Seeing something shiny, new & exciting the media got on board. Then of course citizens stampeded towards the stadium lights and upbeat music accompanying this over-the-top narcissistic candidates unflinching promises of salvation. However, Obama was running for president, not savior. And eventually (2010) Congressional Republican's rejected him as a transformational leader. So now the DNC's theme for re-election distills down to; we're deserving... more righteous... gonna hang tough... not going anywhere. My hope for change in this battle for power between the wisdom-of-markets (capitalism) verses the collective wisdom-of-voters (democracy) is that Obama (and/or the Republican's) can somehow lead this country towards a better future. Because throughout history it seems like when (for there to be a constructive resolution) everyone has to give something, often the results are that no one willingly gives anything, leaving as the default resolution hyperinflation and/or war.
Given the country's political dysfunctions our 'analog' democracy (political conventions, debates, 'whistle-stop' campaigning, tv & radio ads) maybe doesn't always result in the strongest case being made for a candidates election, or for reforms, justice and/or democracy. Extending trend lines, the information technology revolution should eventually lead to a more frictionless 'digital' democracy. For now (in an analog world) obviously Obama is at the top (surpassing Fmr. Pres. Bill Clinton). However, in a digital 'e-democracy', it's concievable that the Thomas Jefferson of our time (i.e., Thom Hartmann) could get elected president...or at least win alot of votes.
What could be more wasteful then voting for a party that has zero chance of winning? Voting your concience is your choice, but does little to solve the problems we face as a nation......
You sound like some left wing political zealot. The remarks you have made deserve a response, but it would be a waste of time and energy.(but here goes anyway), Your pius attitude sounds if you see yourself as the enlighned one and the rest should follow your wisdom. Get a life and present yourself with some humbleness. As important as this election will be, a vote for Stein will in effect be a vote thrown away. I watched her and her pick for vice president present themselves on PBS. They did not sound much different then what Obama had to say. They have no chance of winning the election. Their presentation on PBS left much to be desired from two people who would help run this country. Your comments reflect a person with a great deal of time to waste and not very much to say that is substanile in content. You call your fellow Americans simpletons, as if you abound in wisdom. I have read several of your rants on this web page, you are not very impressive from someone who thinks he has all the right answers. Politics are much more complex then what you seem to grasp. We only have a real choice between two different concepts of what direction this country should persue, and fortunately they include Obama and Romney, not Stein. Trying to convince the voting public to vote for Stein, will only pull votes away from Obama and is ludicrist at best. Your comments are one of the reasons I try not to read Thom's blog. It reminds me that there are people out there that feel they are superior to others and that just irritates me to no end. You actually never have any original thoughts or comments, except to belittle other Americans and try to make someone think your intelligent by your remarks and you have failed at that attempt. You must be retired with a great deal of time on your hands. Perhaps you could be more useful as a volunteer at your local homeless shelter or as a tutor for grade school children. At least in those two situations you could do little harm to other Americans. The homeless are primarily concerned about surviving another day and the children would not understand your rantings and putting down of your fellow citizens. Good luck and long live the Republic.,.
"..we may have to keep our feet on his neck to make sure .."
And that's what we said, and even Obama himself said in the beginning of his first term. But guess what...obviously no one did....and Obama kept giving in to the Republicans.
"He did get us out the Iraq and is ending the Afghanistan war. He got a somewhat weak Wall Streeet reform bill passed--that repubs are still trying to defeat and whittle away at. He got rid of Don't Ask don't tell and came out in favor of same-sex marriage."
And I'd say that most American don't really care much about some of those issues...like Don't Ask Don't tell or same-sex marriages. He has made the gays and lesbians very happy...fine...but the majority of Americans are not gay or lesbians. The majority of Americans wanted universal health care and jobs. Obama gave us neither. Yes, he was opposed all the way by the Republicans but Obama just seemed to accept it and shriveled up in the corner sucking on his thumb. He only "got out of Iraq" at the time that it had already been agreed that the US would leave by the Bush administration. Had Obama, during the first part of his term shut down Gitmo and pulled out of Iraq then we could give him some credit. But we're still in Afghanistan and often in Pakistan murdering civilians and children with Drones. Obama tightened up on secrecy and security so tight that now we are all being spied on...and it will get worse!
Voting for either party is a wasted vote. I’m voting third party, most likely the Green Party. If Obama wins then the left will not rally to make change and stay home thinking it could have been worse. If Romney wins things will get so bad that even the Tea Party folks might just join the left on the streets demanding fundamental change (I know it's a pipe dream but I have to believe in hope for humanity). Change must happen from a people’s movement and Romney might just be the right guy to get people in the streets.
Fundamental change can’t occur within either party. That is why I have to vote my conscience on the third party candidate. The real fight occurs after the election. Vote none of the above. But vote!
Even Michael Moore is sending around emails to people trying to muster up support for Obama. He basically hits us with the negatives first...like using drones, and not shutting down Gitmo Torture Camps..and a bunch of other things but then he says...but "you just can't expect Obama to fix everything in just four years...give the guy a chance..he is such a nice guy!". NO!
He had his chance, along with the Democrats in Congress. And he blew it right off the bat when he started acting just like a Bush clone. I believe that he never even intended to change things even when he was lying through his teeth when campaigning....like he is now!
Our only hope is to call them on their game and throw the bums out. Vote for Jill Stein and make it happen!
To Michael Moore: I hope Obama does lose...he deserves to lose. It will be horrible to have Romney as a President for sure. But whether or not Jill Stein wins or Romney does it will have shown the Democrats that the people are not going to be fooled by their rhetorical lies again. If we are lucky, Jill Stein will win and really teach those good old boys a lesson. Besides, it is high time we had a woman President....not cat lady Clinton but Jill Stein a physician...someone who knows what people are going through and really cares.