@lore. ok, thanx.

"After Sting dies, will they call him "Stung"? - harry ashburn

Is it just me, or does Gainors' argument boil down to the "Do what I say, or the boogieman will get you"?

His reasoning just doesn't make any sense, or supported by good data (supported by manipulated and bad data, sure).

L not I - lmao was all in small letters. Laughing my ass off! :D
imho - in my humble opinion --- is a shortfall of my character. I am not nearly humble enough!

@lore: Ive heard of Imho, but not Imao. please translate. thanx

Absent 9/11, we would not be fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Absent 9/11 the world would not have forever changed, or so we have been told.

"Ultimate Sacrifice" details how the coup plan in Cuba was co-opted by the Mafia with support by some in the know in the CIA to kill JFK with the resultant need for the establishment to cover up the truth.

What is behind the lack of forensic examination of 9/11?

I read a book entitled "The Germans and the Final Solution: Public Opinion under the Nazis," which discussed what the average Germans knew or supported in regard to the deportations and ultimate disposition of the Jews. Although blaming the Jews for everything would lose its potency (how can you blame the Jews when there are no Jews left?), most Germans were willing to swallow enough of the propaganda to justify what they actually saw. What they didn't see, they took an out-of-sight-out-of-mind approach; they pretended that the worst wasn't happening. But Germans on the home front couldn't help but have at least an inkling of the killings that were going on in the East; German soldiers not only knew what was going on (including the activities of the Einsatzgruppen death squads)--and even personally participated in them--but they communicated this in letters home and when on leave.

or mother hubbard?

www.pahrumplife.org writes:
Government Hires: Extant American Capitalists and the Rest

Instead of supporting corporations as people government would do better to support the people. If Government hires privateers: banks, prisons, soldiers, building departments, planning departments, fire departments, police, accreditation companies, voting machine companies, watch dog companies - e.g., for voting machines, private prisons, environmental testing and validating, etc. - then one of our modern-times US private citizens’ inalienable (inherent) rights is that government hire all citizens to either uphold the unprecedented rights of these select entities or to protest them offering their opinions and ideas for a better America. After all speech is an employable service as well as a veridical Constitutional right of all Americans.

Albeit not without fault, we in the US have publicly run government agencies doing a much better job than the privates in the above categories. The so-called rights now supporting the lobby-prone and lobby-bound above privateers are spurious and blasphemous to the United States Constitution. Where is the word, the intrinsic position, lobbyist or its like mentioned in the Constitution? In what context in the Constitution are mentioned the words bribery, graft, kickback, reward, hush money, influence, protection, lure, incentive, bait, blackmail? Also corporations are never once mentioned in the Constitution and should lose their status as persons.

In its beginnings lobbying may have been innocently conceived and a necessary catalyst for fairness and positive growth; but what has lobbying come to mean? I believe that these early lobbyists may have been individuals honestly speaking for affirmative change, abolitionists perhaps or conservationists for example.

Now there is a need for many individuals, to speak for change. One very important reason is that modern day lobbyists have lobbied, for instance, for voting machines making elections so easily fixed these days with programmable machines and esoteric monitoring systems. Lobbyists have also allowed corporations to be considered persons in the law and now, with the Supreme Court decision Thursday January 21 2010, to a much greater extent than ever before. A growing multitude of able bodies are looking for work, Now is the time for all good people with able bodies and minds to be given the support that corporations have already enjoyed as persons. The people are real persons. Every US woman and man qualifies as an equal or more worthy dependent of the government than the above corporate entities, at least as a voice of reason if nothing else.

Why are mentally and physically able American citizens excluded from government payrolls? You may say: how do these people qualify? They qualify as human beings with working capable brains. All people are unique artists. Don’t we all design our dress, our food, our lifestyles as good Americans? Masters of Fine Arts would agree and give all people a glowing accreditation rating on their abilities to imagine, to create, to think. Why can’t the People get a paycheck as the above entities do? Because that’s not a good way to fill prisons to get that per diem rate? Shouldn’t we all be given a chance to make a better world by being paid comparably to the above entities by national museums, national art institutions, national endowments to voice our opinions, to write, sing, paint, make films, think-tank, study art, science, math, history, sociology (one has a hard time finding a professorship for these let alone a public school teaching position in today’s lobbied job-security-for-education-administrators-only education market). Since the laws have been changed over the years in the United States, doing things within the law these days is sometimes downright cruel and inhuman and an offence to our constitution. Sounds ridiculous? It is ridiculous.

We’re not talking socialism here; we’re talking jobs, people working for a living, paid by the taxpayers in the same vain as the for-profit prisons, accreditation companies, soldiers of fortune companies, etc. Pure capitalism I’m told. Shouldn’t we have as much right to get paid to push peace and prosperity for all as they have the right to get paid to push war, torture, and slavery and untold wealth for a few?

Should our plan resemble their plan? Should we get a few million of our own lobbyists to swarm on Washington or wherever our accommodating legislators are playing or hiding in the sunshine with their corporate friends and blatant legal bribers to see if we can get equal rights using their tactics? How many lobbyists can they muster? I believe we would have more than they and if we each brought a spare 20 bucks (ha!) (that’s how we used to write LOL) there’s no tellin’ what we could accomplish. Then we can work on ways to make America the Beautiful again - eliminate for-profit world killing, such as for-profit war, for-profit prisons, for-profit animal and plant genetic engineering, for-profit oil and gas, basically all the for-profit “screw the people and the environmentally sound endeavors.” We non-elites could call ourselves (Public Words and Art). It could work, especially since a great many of our lobbyists have a lot of time on their hands, currently not having the responsibility or privilege of going to a job.

Something is terribly wrong. They kicked an already crippled nation when it was down. I hope we can, all working together, correct it. As if we didn’t have enough to do let us now work to overturn the brand new law, and get some positive work for all who need it.

www.pahrumplife.org

We were told we were voting for change, we got continued and expanded war, a continuation of the Gates pentagon, a continuation of the Bernanke (Capt. Hazeltine) Fed, continued bail-outs of the banksters etc. The drug war goes on apace with tragic consequences south of the border and for the largest prison population on the planet.

We are challenging a national security state. The media is co-opted in service of that state. Even Thom bemoans Hugo Chavez who has had to defend against a US supported coup attempt.

The Op-Ed Assassination of Hugo Chávez
Commentary on Venezuela parrots U.S. propaganda themes
By Justin Delacour http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2796

I has happened here.

harry ashburn and KMH,

My rep. is cut out of the same dough!

Government Hires: Extant American Capitalists and the Rest

Instead of supporting corporations as people government would do better to support the people. If Government hires privateers: banks, prisons, soldiers, building departments, planning departments, fire departments, police, accreditation companies, voting machine companies, watch dog companies - e.g., for voting machines, private prisons, environmental testing and validating, etc. - then one of our modern-times US private citizens’ inalienable (inherent) rights is that government hire all citizens to either uphold the unprecedented rights of these select entities or to protest them offering their opinions and ideas for a better America. After all speech is an employable service as well as a veridical Constitutional right of all Americans.

Albeit not without fault, we in the US have publicly run government agencies doing a much better job than the privates in the above categories. The so-called rights now supporting the lobby-prone and lobby-bound above privateers are spurious and blasphemous to the United States Constitution. Where is the word, the intrinsic position, lobbyist or its like mentioned in the Constitution? In what context in the Constitution are mentioned the words bribery, graft, kickback, reward, hush money, influence, protection, lure, incentive, bait, blackmail? Also corporations are never once mentioned in the Constitution and should lose their status as persons.

In its beginnings lobbying may have been innocently conceived and a necessary catalyst for fairness and positive growth; but what has lobbying come to mean? I believe that these early lobbyists may have been individuals honestly speaking for affirmative change, abolitionists perhaps or conservationists for example.

Now there is a need for many individuals, to speak for change. One very important reason is that modern day lobbyists have lobbied, for instance, for voting machines making elections so easily fixed these days with programmable machines and esoteric monitoring systems. Lobbyists have also allowed corporations to be considered persons in the law and now, with the Supreme Court decision Thursday January 21 2010, to a much greater extent than ever before. A growing multitude of able bodies are looking for work, Now is the time for all good people with able bodies and minds to be given the support that corporations have already enjoyed as persons. The people are real persons. Every US woman and man qualifies as an equal or more worthy dependent of the government than the above corporate entities, at least as a voice of reason if nothing else.

Why are mentally and physically able American citizens excluded from government payrolls? You may say: how do these people qualify? They qualify as human beings with working capable brains. All people are unique artists. Don’t we all design our dress, our food, our lifestyles as good Americans? Masters of Fine Arts would agree and give all people a glowing accreditation rating on their abilities to imagine, to create, to think. Why can’t the People get a paycheck as the above entities do? Because that’s not a good way to fill prisons to get that per diem rate? Shouldn’t we all be given a chance to make a better world by being paid comparably to the above entities by national museums, national art institutions, national endowments to voice our opinions, to write, sing, paint, make films, think-tank, study art, science, math, history, sociology (one has a hard time finding a professorship for these let alone a public school teaching position in today’s lobbied job-security-for-education-administrators-only education market). Since the laws have been changed over the years in the United States, doing things within the law these days is sometimes downright cruel and inhuman and an offence to our constitution. Sounds ridiculous? It is ridiculous.

We’re not talking socialism here; we’re talking jobs, people working for a living, paid by the taxpayers in the same vain as the for-profit prisons, accreditation companies, soldiers of fortune companies, etc. Pure capitalism I’m told. Shouldn’t we have as much right to get paid to push peace and prosperity for all as they have the right to get paid to push war, torture, and slavery and untold wealth for a few?

Should our plan resemble their plan? Should we get a few million of our own lobbyists to swarm on Washington or wherever our accommodating legislators are playing or hiding in the sunshine with their corporate friends and blatant legal bribers to see if we can get equal rights using their tactics? How many lobbyists can they muster? I believe we would have more than they and if we each brought a spare 20 bucks (ha!) (that’s how we used to write LOL) there’s no tellin’ what we could accomplish. Then we can work on ways to make America the Beautiful again - eliminate for-profit world killing, such as for-profit war, for-profit prisons, for-profit animal and plant genetic engineering, for-profit oil and gas, basically all the for-profit “screw the people and the environmentally sound endeavors.” We non-elites could call ourselves (Public Words and Art). It could work, especially since a great many of our lobbyists have a lot of time on their hands, currently not having the responsibility or privilege of going to a job.

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

So the Constitution says that individuals can address the Government by petition the definition of which in Thesaurus.com follows:

Main Entry: petition
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: appeal, plea
Synonyms: address, application, entreaty, imploration, imprecation, invocation, memorial, prayer, request, round robin, solicitation, suit, supplication

And the Lectric Legal Definitions website defines lobby as:

“LOBBY - A group, organization or association seeking to influence the passage or defeat of legislation. Originally the term referred to persons frequenting the lobbies or corridors of legislative chambers in order to speak to lawmakers.

The definition of a lobby and the activity of lobbying is a matter of differing interpretation. By some definitions, lobbying is limited to direct attempts to influence lawmakers through personal interviews and persuasion. Under other definitions, lobbying includes attempts at indirect, or 'grassroots,' influence, such as persuading members of a group to write or visit their district's representative and state's senators or attempting to create a climate of opinion favorable to a desired legislative goal.

The right to attempt to influence legislation is based on the First Amendment to the Constitution, which says Congress shall make no law abridging the right of the people 'to petition the government for a redress of grievances.'

Despite this Constitutional protection there are various restrictions and registration requirements concerning lobbying.

A 'lobbyist' is the actual person or entity that does the work of the lobby.”

Looks to me like we need new rules or shall we say a better interpretation of the old rule (the First Amendment) that decries with the word petition (entreat, implore, pray, etc.) that reasoned, pointed words pertaining to the definition of the grievance in need of correction and the specific changes that are needed in the law are the only persuasion that can be used. Does “I’ll give you an all expense four-month trip to Paris and you can stay in my Villa in Rome next year,” or “I’ll see to it that you will be governor in the next election but meanwhile our company will take care of the restoration of your mansion.” sound like entreating with mere words? Perhaps in the new legislation that we initiate, we should also include the words No Bribery of Any Kind or go to Jail with Penalties. Without the foregoing corruption, we all would be in a much better and more philanthropic place today. Please write to your lawmakers. And, longer range, please bring in new and better lawmakers. Keep the foxes out in the woods. We need only hens and roosters and farmers watching the henhouse.

Something is terribly wrong. They kicked an already crippled nation when it was down. I hope we can, all working together, correct it. As if we didn’t have enough to do let us now work to overturn the brand new law, and get some positive work for all who need it.

www.pahrumplife.org

www.pahrumplife.org writes:
Government Hires: Extant American Capitalists and the Rest

Instead of supporting corporations as people government would do better to support the people. If Government hires privateers: banks, prisons, soldiers, building departments, planning departments, fire departments, police, accreditation companies, voting machine companies, watch dog companies - e.g., for voting machines, private prisons, environmental testing and validating, etc. - then one of our modern-times US private citizens’ inalienable (inherent) rights is that government hire all citizens to either uphold the unprecedented rights of these select entities or to protest them offering their opinions and ideas for a better America. After all speech is an employable service as well as a veridical Constitutional right of all Americans.

Albeit not without fault, we in the US have publicly run government agencies doing a much better job than the privates in the above categories. The so-called rights now supporting the lobby-prone and lobby-bound above privateers are spurious and blasphemous to the United States Constitution. Where is the word, the intrinsic position, lobbyist or its like mentioned in the Constitution? In what context in the Constitution are mentioned the words bribery, graft, kickback, reward, hush money, influence, protection, lure, incentive, bait, blackmail? Also corporations are never once mentioned in the Constitution and should lose their status as persons.

In its beginnings lobbying may have been innocently conceived and a necessary catalyst for fairness and positive growth; but what has lobbying come to mean? I believe that these early lobbyists may have been individuals honestly speaking for affirmative change, abolitionists perhaps or conservationists for example.

Now there is a need for many individuals, to speak for change. One very important reason is that modern day lobbyists have lobbied, for instance, for voting machines making elections so easily fixed these days with programmable machines and esoteric monitoring systems. Lobbyists have also allowed corporations to be considered persons in the law and now, with the Supreme Court decision Thursday January 21 2010, to a much greater extent than ever before. A growing multitude of able bodies are looking for work, Now is the time for all good people with able bodies and minds to be given the support that corporations have already enjoyed as persons. The people are real persons. Every US woman and man qualifies as an equal or more worthy dependent of the government than the above corporate entities, at least as a voice of reason if nothing else.

Why are mentally and physically able American citizens excluded from government payrolls? You may say: how do these people qualify? They qualify as human beings with working capable brains. All people are unique artists. Don’t we all design our dress, our food, our lifestyles as good Americans? Masters of Fine Arts would agree and give all people a glowing accreditation rating on their abilities to imagine, to create, to think. Why can’t the People get a paycheck as the above entities do? Because that’s not a good way to fill prisons to get that per diem rate? Shouldn’t we all be given a chance to make a better world by being paid comparably to the above entities by national museums, national art institutions, national endowments to voice our opinions, to write, sing, paint, make films, think-tank, study art, science, math, history, sociology (one has a hard time finding a professorship for these let alone a public school teaching position in today’s lobbied job-security-for-education-administrators-only education market). Since the laws have been changed over the years in the United States, doing things within the law these days is sometimes downright cruel and inhuman and an offence to our constitution. Sounds ridiculous? It is ridiculous.

We’re not talking socialism here; we’re talking jobs, people working for a living, paid by the taxpayers in the same vain as the for-profit prisons, accreditation companies, soldiers of fortune companies, etc. Pure capitalism I’m told. Shouldn’t we have as much right to get paid to push peace and prosperity for all as they have the right to get paid to push war, torture, and slavery and untold wealth for a few?

Should our plan resemble their plan? Should we get a few million of our own lobbyists to swarm on Washington or wherever our accommodating legislators are playing or hiding in the sunshine with their corporate friends and blatant legal bribers to see if we can get equal rights using their tactics? How many lobbyists can they muster? I believe we would have more than they and if we each brought a spare 20 bucks (ha!) (that’s how we used to write LOL) there’s no tellin’ what we could accomplish. Then we can work on ways to make America the Beautiful again - eliminate for-profit world killing, such as for-profit war, for-profit prisons, for-profit animal and plant genetic engineering, for-profit oil and gas, basically all the for-profit “screw the people and the environmentally sound endeavors.” We non-elites could call ourselves (Public Words and Art). It could work, especially since a great many of our lobbyists have a lot of time on their hands, currently not having the responsibility or privilege of going to a job.

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

So the Constitution says that individuals can address the Government by petition the definition of which in Thesaurus.com follows:

Main Entry: petition
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: appeal, plea
Synonyms: address, application, entreaty, imploration, imprecation, invocation, memorial, prayer, request, round robin, solicitation, suit, supplication

And the Lectric Legal Definitions website defines lobby as:

“LOBBY - A group, organization or association seeking to influence the passage or defeat of legislation. Originally the term referred to persons frequenting the lobbies or corridors of legislative chambers in order to speak to lawmakers.

The definition of a lobby and the activity of lobbying is a matter of differing interpretation. By some definitions, lobbying is limited to direct attempts to influence lawmakers through personal interviews and persuasion. Under other definitions, lobbying includes attempts at indirect, or 'grassroots,' influence, such as persuading members of a group to write or visit their district's representative and state's senators or attempting to create a climate of opinion favorable to a desired legislative goal.

The right to attempt to influence legislation is based on the First Amendment to the Constitution, which says Congress shall make no law abridging the right of the people 'to petition the government for a redress of grievances.'

Despite this Constitutional protection there are various restrictions and registration requirements concerning lobbying.

A 'lobbyist' is the actual person or entity that does the work of the lobby.”

Looks to me like we need new rules or shall we say a better interpretation of the old rule (the First Amendment) that decries with the word petition (entreat, implore, pray, etc.) that reasoned, pointed words pertaining to the definition of the grievance in need of correction and the specific changes that are needed in the law are the only persuasion that can be used. Does “I’ll give you an all expense four-month trip to Paris and you can stay in my Villa in Rome next year,” or “I’ll see to it that you will be governor in the next election but meanwhile our company will take care of the restoration of your mansion.” sound like entreating with mere words? Perhaps in the new legislation that we initiate, we should also include the words No Bribery of Any Kind or go to Jail with Penalties. Without the foregoing corruption, we all would be in a much better and more philanthropic place today. Please write to your lawmakers. And, longer range, please bring in new and better lawmakers. Keep the foxes out in the woods. We need only hens and roosters and farmers watching the henhouse.

Something is terribly wrong. They kicked an already crippled nation when it was down. I hope we can, all working together, correct it. As if we didn’t have enough to do let us now work to overturn the brand new law, and get some positive work for all who need it.

www.pahrumplife.org